387:"The A-10 has received several nicknames from its enemies. In the first Gulf war 1991, captured Iraqi tankcrews called it: "Whispering Death" (a nickname that has also been attributed to the WW2 Bristol Beaufighter). In the 2003 defeat of conventional Iraqi forces, captured Fedayeens referred to the A-10 as "the Devil's Cross" a name that was also used for it in Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising (1986). Captured Taliban and Al-Qaeda fighters referred to it as 'the silent gun'. The rounds hit their target before the target heard the report of the gunfire" Is there a valid source for what it appears to be politically incorrect propaganda?, i mean we know that in middle east they are somewhat backwards, but to be as backwards to call a plane "whispering death"?... its not like they would call a train iron horse either.
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since at least World War II because it sounds cool and makes for a good story. There is no truth that I know of behind it. Beaufighter and
Corsair had large non-turbocharged radial engines with straight exhausts. F-111 runs on two massive afterburning turbofans. A-10 again runs on turbofans and has the aerodynamics of a school bus. Whispering my ass. The only airplane I know of from WW2-to-present time period that could be genuinely quiet is a P-38 Lightning at slow cruise because the large turbos very much muffle the engines and the aircraft is aerodynamically clean. And yet, no one ever claimed P-38 to be called that. -
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if the pilot is incapacitated. The pipes at the back are angle 9 degrees upward to bring the thrustline ahead of the engine down to where the aircrafts aerodynamic centre is, or at least nearer. I can't remember the source of this information I've taken it from a project I did over a year ago. It may have been "Jane's". I have a picture that I have edited to try and explain this a little clearer. It's not 100% accurate but it explains it a bit better, but for some reason it's not uploading. Hope my explaination is enough.
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1017:"The A-10 Thunderbolt II was offered to the Pakistan Air Force as part of a package including the F-20. They opted to buy the multirole F-16 instead." This really doesn't say much about the A-10 itself. They could have gone with one plane over two for maintenance reasons, or perhaps they just didn't like the F-20. As such, it seems out of place in the middle of that section.
527:"Stories of enemies using fearsome nicknames to describe their opponents weapons are sometimes propaganda. For instance, during World War 2, the Allies claimed that Axis soldiers described some of their planes as "whispering death" and "flying porcupine," when in fact it was an invention to obliquely suggest the fearsomeness of Allied weapons."
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Here's the deal. To the guy who says he hears the A-10s "all the time," you're hearing them operating around an airfield. During DESERT STORM, ENDURING FREEDOM, and IRAQI FREEDOM, the A-10s flew much, much higher than if they were landing or taking off. Additionally, there are usually other things
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I chopped out this phrase: "and its ability to engage targets with supersonic ammunition from distances that preclude hearing the incoming rounds before they impact." This is needless because all fired ammunition is supersonic and hits its target before impact. All bullets, cannon shells etc. travel
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Drew. I don't have your background/experience with as many planes, but I MUST say that you sure hear these bad-boys coming. I live close to Willow-Grove Naval Air
Station in PA, home to the PANG's 111th Wing of A10s. And believe me....I hear them coming. It's to the point where I know if it's
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I highly suspect that this is propaganda or soldier stories. The name "whispering death" has been attributed to
Corsair and Beaufighter as well and AFAIK there is no historical evidence whatsoever that it was actually used by the enemies. The same goes for "the Devil's cross," particularly seeing how
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FYI: The
Pakistanis' issue was with the F-20, not the A-10. To satisfy arms control advocates, the F-20 and F-16/J79 were developed to be offered to "third-world" countries instead of the most modern capabilities. You can imagine how many countries were enthralled with the idea of receiving only the
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I heartily agree with Drew. The A-10 is an exceptionally quiet aircraft. And I must add, to the individual who lives near Willow Grove (as opposed to working on them, like myself and Drew), consider this: You may hear the aircraft approaching, but by the time you hear it, you've been within range of
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This section needs to be seriously trimmed. This is an article about an aircraft, not about computer games. The information like movie scene summaries and what attacks computer game units can do is totally irrelevant to the A-10. I will move the entire section out to a separate page unless there's a
242:
I would definitely agree with 24, the 50 cal on the thunderbolt is huge, it is one uber big gun. there definitely needs to be a comparison, i suggest going to a museum and getting a picture taken with an object that we would find large, maybe a hand or something so we can see that the gun is one big
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I think it's more apalling that soldiers dumb enough to call in air support on themselves are allowed into battle. Couldn't they even give simple directions? Of course, it's not the poor soldiers' fault their nations' don't pay enough to attract competent soldiers smart enough to jump out of the way
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Yes, the last portion only. The engines as a whole are raised up at the front for several reasons; inference with the wing, reduced risk of FOD, structural necessity. Therefore if the tailpipes where straight the aircraft would always experience a nose down pitching moment, not desirable especially
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that such nicknames reported for the A-10 in recent years are just that, propaganda. Unless there is specific evidence suggesting that this may be the case in this instance, I think this paragraph is totally superfluous and should be deleted. Furthermore, I suggest that those purported nicknames be
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So we have half a page on A-10 in video games and not a single word on its design and development history? What gives? There is plenty to tell about the engineering innovations and the political obstacles (e.g. the flyoff against A-7). The A-10 is a bit too new for my interests but perhaps someone
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The pave penny pod is a guidence aid it doesn't designate or guide weapons to targets. The pave penny pod itself is only a laser receiver... not a laser designator which means it requires the laser to be shot from another source like a grunt on the ground or a laser pod like LANTIRN or LIGHTNING
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One man with no credentials to speak of made an unreferenced and uncited claim, probably because he heard it from someone else. I will revert all "whispering deaths" with a vengeance unless someone can present an actual source for this. It's a myth that has been perpetuated for different aircraft
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I agree that the current phrasing may be more POV than required, but I don't agree with complete removal; that restrictive ROE limited the plane's usefulness in that conflict may well be true. We should probably do what we normally should do when expressing a point of view: find someone who said
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There is no metion of JAAT, (joint air attack team), in which attack helicopters and A-10s work together. The attack helicopters shoot at the air defences, and the A-10s attack the ground vehicles. It is supposed to be more effective than the two different aircraft attacking independent of one
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Actually the A-10 is one of the quitest aircraft I had worked on in my time in the service... The only time you hear it is when it passed by you. The gun noise is the same way, its quite until after the bullets hit. I am not reverting anything, just pointing out that just because it is a jet
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You can directly link to
Commons images. If an image is not found on the Knowledge (XXG) server, it will look on the Commons server. The format is the same ol' Image tag and it works seamlessly. The nice thing about Commons images is that they are safe from roving vandals like OrphanBot. -
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be careful with any claims you make in the text concerning relative size. I had to edit out some text that said that the gun filled half the aircraft fuselage and was a third the weight of the empty aircraft; those claims completely ignored the sizes and weights given in the
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Because of this high position of the engines the thrust line would act above the longitudinal aerodynamic axis so to avoid nuisance trimming measures the engine tailpipes are angled at nine degrees upwards bring the combined thrust line down through the centre of gravity.
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Additionally, the sounds you're hearing are of the A-10 landing and taking off, two states in which the engines are operating at higher than normal levels, which makes them louder. I've been in the field with A-10s flying and shooting around me, and you DON'T hear them.
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Agreed with Berrik. Also it may be noted that for instance
Swedish UN soldisrs on the ground benefited from having the A-10's available on call. The intimidating power of airborne support is quite good when the other side does not know what the ROE are for the planes.
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This is an appallingly biased article, and needs to be rewritten to deal with the appalling history of so-called friendly fire incidents involving this machine. Quite franklyit should not be allowed to fly until competent, responsible pilots are rostered to it.
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designed around the GAU-8 (with its armor-piercing DU ammunition). The plane could not carry any guided ordnance other than the self-guided
Maverick until the Pave Penny pod was incorporated. The new upgrade to the A-10C standard makes it far more robust.
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I'd heard that 'Whispering Death' was the
Nickname the NVA, and VC gave the F-111. I personally doubt that we captured many men in the Gulf Wars who were attacked, because many surrendered before that happened, and many who didn't were just plain dead.
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beast of a gun. The face of that thing is about as big as a human head, but from the picture you might guess it to be only 3 inches (7cm) across. The picture might as well be the gun of an Apache; it looks no bigger without something to compare against.
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Those two pictures I removed were the least attractive, and I guess I'm partial to more stunning photographs. Honestly, Commons has a ton of A-10 pictures, & I'm tempted to nominate those two for deletion to cut the burden on wiki servers.
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two pics of the aircraft on the ground and might well be the sort of pic a reader wants for a project or homework or whatever? Is it up to you to make that judgement? Just present a variety of pics (including ground ones!) and let the reader
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faster than the speed of sound (332 m/s). You'll never hear a bullet before it hits you, even if it's fired from 20,000 ft. While falling bombs can theoritically be heard, there is no indication they are any quieter coming from an A-10.
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Does anyone have copyright free pictures of the HUD area that show the two meters on either side of the screen? I believe that design is a problem unique to the A10 and is responsible for crashes including
Captain Button's.
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There's no reason to put them up for deletion because I've read many times that the pics and text of WP occupy less than the hard drive capacity of a modern home computer. The poor speeds we see on WP are not due to that -
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I just deleted that sentence altogether. As it stood it was irrelevant and added nothing to the article. It did not explain why they made this choice, as you point out, and it gives no 'criticism' of aircraft as such.
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The article mentions two friendly fire incidents. However, I remember another; two A-10s attacked a refugee camp (with UN guards) on the border of
Albania, in front of TV cameras. However, I don't remember any detals.
959:
I also removed a claim that the gun is the primary armament of the air craft. While a distinctive feature, I find that a very auspicious claim, particularly today with the guided and ranged ordnance available.
816:
Just by visual inspection the claim is suspect, and it appears the engines are angled up, not down, to allow the gun to point downwards in level flight. I'd be happy to add it back in if the claim checks out
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To say the reader can go to Commons to see them is not being thoughtful to the reader. We should not force them to change to another site to see pics if the article has plenty of room for them.
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of this article for no reason that I could see. I reverted that deletion since the information that was removed was correct as far as I am aware and appropriate for inclusion in the article.
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Possibly but I was also around f-15 and f-16's as well and the a-10 was music to my ears... like I said it is the quitest bird in the inventory minus the stealth fighter and bomber
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from another aircraft. AND the main purpose of the pave penny pod was actually designed to point the plane in the direction and angle of attack to fire the gun at maximum range
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Tom Clancy used the term 5 years prior and I suspect US servicemen read Clancy more than Taliban fighters. I will pull it until someone can come up with references. -
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I may have been a bit unclear. By visual inspection, the tailpipes are higher than the front of the engines....i.e. angled down; bringing the thrust line up. e.g.
904:
It looks right and your explanation sounds reasonable. I'll put it back in or you can. It needs a clearer wording for the article that was previously present. --
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There's a drawing in the flight manual, for which scanned versions exist (I have one). Since it's a US Government publication it would be in the public domain.
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Yeah, the gun and its ammo drum is bigger than a Volkswagon Beetle. I've got a picture of it next to a VW but I'm not sure about the copyright laws.
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Well the sound/round speed differential becomes more prominate at the longer ranges. The GAU-8 has a muzzle velocity of almost 3 times sonic. -
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it's weapons for quite some time. If it WERE to fire on you, you would more than likely not live long enough to hear the roar of the engines.
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I've heard of joint ops, but that commen military practice to use several different types of aircraft to attack an area or specific objects
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I am going to shift around some of the pictures around to make this look cleaner, unless anyone has any objections in the next week or so.
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You look at the picture, and you think "cool, it's a 7-barrel gatling gun". It looks like any common 50-caliber gun... except that it's a
210:
BTW, the length of the gun should be mentioned. According to my fading memory, the gun is 23 feet long. It runs the length of the plane.
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Done and done. the pictures removed were: Image:Thunderbolt.a10.fairford.arp.jpg & Image:Thunderbolt.a10.closeup.fairford.arp.jpg
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Frankly, it could probably do with more pictures being removed (as long as theyāre in the Commons gallery, which all except
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going on (explosions, gunfire, etc.) that would preclude you from hearing the aircraft in its usual operating environment.
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Guys, you are much too keen to remove perfectly good photos. Have you realised that the two ground pics are the
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The ammo is crazy big too. The bullets are about 4 inches long, or about 12 inches when you include the casing.
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The part about the Clinton administration being paranoid seems rather NPOV. Perhaps it should be removed?
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I said they were angled up. Angling the pipes upward brings the thrust line ahead of the engine down.
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a single plane, a double, or a quad flight. Luckily, they don't do 'live fire' exercises in my area.
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It doesn't sound insulting or backward to me by the way. I think you are reading too much into it.
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when they see friendly aircraft coming. (Serious responses are given is section below.) -
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I take the total lack of responses to be a consensus. The pop culture stuff was moved to
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Will need a citation or source. I'm not personally familiar so I can't comment on it. --
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Do you mean the tailpipe as in the last portion only, and not the whole aircraft? --
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called it: "Whispering Death" (a nickname that has also been attributed to the WW2
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referred to the A-10 as "the Devil's Cross" a name that was also used for it in
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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The picture I was refering to is actually shown on the Avenger's own page.
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That doesn't do justice to the gun. There's nothing for a size comparison.
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http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/iraqifreedom/annasiriyah/default.aspx
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Anybody that has a good size comparison photo, please do add it to the
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Ok, cheers, changed the wording a bit, hope it's more understandable.
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deleted unless and until a reliable source can be found and cited. --
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aircraft doesn't mean it loud.```` Drew1369 07:58, 17 September 2006
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another. It has also been called JAWS, (joint air weapon system).
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Here's one ref that makes the "whispering death" claim:
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need information source of "whispering death" nickname
175:. The related material is on the Captain Button page.
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Any size comparison for the cannon should go in the
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257:not here. It's caliber is 30 mm not 0.50 in. -
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18:Talk:Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II
420:). In the 2003 defeat of conventional
366:A-10 Thunderbolt II in popular culture
350:good reason for it to stay. Anyone? -
326:It's a start. Thanks for your help! -
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
409:In the first Gulf war 1991, captured
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173:http://VisionAndPsychosis.Net
164:___________________________-
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281:and this article as well. --
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438:(1986). (pulled text, -
161:03:33, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
109:18:18, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
100:11:21, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)
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641:Image:2seatwarthog.jpg
587:sighs* *shakes head*
558:comment was added by
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42:of past discussions.
171:You can reach me at
155:removed large chunks
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805:Questionable facts.
418:Bristol Beaufighter
292:Development history
85:ROEs under Clinton
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190:Gun picture
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123:2005-04-04
36:This is an
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1013:Criticism?
531:insinuates
430:Tom Clancy
283:Molon Labe
272:, but puh-
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414:tankcrews
77:ArchiveĀ 4
72:ArchiveĀ 3
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61:ArchiveĀ 1
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368:. -
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432:'s
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