Knowledge (XXG)

Talk:Finno-Ugric languages/Archive 2

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484:
this matter, stating that "all supporters of the Finno-Ugric theory are immediately labeled as treasonous. We're simply tired of fighting this hopeless fight against crackpots/lunatics." Unfortunately, for many, the acceptance of the Finno-Ugric theory immediately means some sort of treason. which makes it impossible to discuss these problems in an intelligent manner. Another serious problem is the academics' refusal to popularize their point of view. Only professor KĂĄroly RĂ©dei has taken up the burden of debunking these dilettant theories in a language understandable to non-professionals. It’s telling that RĂ©dei teaches in Wien (Austria) so he has less reason to fear attacks from Hungary. The worst scenario could be when even the sensible moderates on the political right start accepting and supporting these self-contradicting myths. This would lead to two separate theories on the origins of the Hungarian language, one for the political left and one for the political right, which never happened in the past.
2391:
assumption, did not deny a remote Hungarian-Turkic genetic link but merely argued that Hungarian was more closely related to Ugric, a term that for Budenz included the Finnic languages. Budenz held that 28% of his Hungarian items have genetic Turkic cognates & another 7% are Turkic loanwords; he claims, however, that 62% of the items are purely Ugric (ie, Finno-Ugric). As the comparative method was still in its infancy, it could not be properly applied; eg, Budenz never articulated phonological criteria for his judgments. A comparison with K. Redei's Uralisches Etymologisches Worterbuch (Uralic Etymological Dictionary) shows that 52% of Budenz's correspondences are incorrect, 28% are purely Uralic, & 20% are Uralic with links outside the Uralic languages, eg, to Turkic or Yukaghir."
2501:
Certainly not enough material to write a "criticism" article, like I suggested earlier. It appears that the field is so riddled with cranks that it is shunned by serious linguists for fear of being counted among them. Also, to appease the nationalist crusaders, we could mention, like on the excellent jolaakso page, that a language group is no evidence for racial or cultural unity. The next step for AFU is still to report numbers of cognates on swadesh lists. I expect these numbers will be rather low, and will thus demonstrate that Finnic and Hungarian are not closely related. Why do we not have these numbers, AFU? This would be a much better use for your time than wasting ours.
450:"In Hungary there is a highly charged political debate between academics who support the finno-ugric theory and their usually (far) right wing critics. You are correct that there is very little serious debate in the linguistic community. But in Hungary the debate is not linguistic, it's political. We've reached a point where Hungarian academists rarely dare to speak up and criticise the proponents of alternative theories lest they be charged with being "Anti-Hungarian" and "serving foreign interests" by "trying to hide the true origins of our language" (exactly the kinds of rhetoric Antifinnougric repeats). 2526:
split than PIE. Even impressionistically, I have yet to see two Finno-Ugric languages that look as different from each other as, oh, English and Armenian... However, the lack of early records (nothing comparable to Sanskrit or Latin for Uralic!) is an obstacle. Besides, Indo-European, like Semitic, has received such incredibly disproportionate attention, over centuries, from historical linguists for cultural reasons that it's slightly unfair to compare any other language family to it. -
1015:
The adjective is followed by a noun (e.g. "my book", "your book") while the pronoun is not ("mine", "yours"). It is the same difference as between a demonstrative adjective and a demonstrative pronoun (e.g. "that book" vs. "that"). It may be that the reason these are often confused is that in many languages they are identical (e.g. Italian "il mio libro" vs. "il mio"; "questo libro" vs. "questo"). Many languages do not have either possessive adjectives or pronouns because — as
3096:
Why that strange modification? Not two characters are on the same position in those words, and they sound very different. Was the old Finnish person drunken and forgot his own language? Or the other way around? Why would anybody believe such phantastic, unbelievable tales? I could not see any prove, not the lightest for this tale. Has anybody seen any? If not, why does anybody believe in that strange theory? Antifinnugor 11:02, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
5536: 31: 827:) may not be omitted. Does anyone know something more detailed about the personal pronoun issue? I could well believe that the original/genuine absence of personal pronouns is the actual feature of the language group, instead of the "verbs inflected by person" property. (e.g. English, German or Russian do this as well but there are personal pronouns and they have to be used!) 84:, who is clearly a psychopath (as evidenced by his rantings) and whose only source is some totally unscientific drivel published on the Web by a crackpot named "Dr. LĂĄszlĂł MarĂĄcz" (surely not a doctor in Linguistics), does NOT mean that this subject is disputed. I thought there was a procedure for barring trolls from the Knowledge (XXG), but apparently it's not working. 2555:
Proto-FU to 2000 BC, and for the following 3000 years, anything might have happened... As for the English-Armenian argument; well, that's why I say "most members of IE". I think of Armenian as rather pathological ;o) But of course, at some point, two languages appear "totally different" on the surface, and this point has been reached by both Finno-Ugric and IE branches.
561:
joining any developing "Altaic nationalism" seen as dangerous to the regime, and preferred to have them associate (ironically, correctly) with the Finns. The backlash of this would be even more ironical ("the Soviets tried to keep us from this, so it must be correct"). That's just my speculation, however. Somebody needs to research the history of this. Very interesting.
2343:
be misleading to future researchers. If one is to establish a language family within the framework of the conventional Comparative Method, one must begin with a reconstruction of relevant areas of morphology, & the reconstruction of at least the top node, the proto-language. Neither of these elements has to this day been properly implemented in Uralic studies."
455:"The alternate theories range from relatively moderate supporters of Turkic origins of the Hungarian language to truly radicals supporting Sumerian and even Japanese origins. Usually the closer the proponents of a theory are to the fringes of the political spectrum the more off the wall their theories and the more agressive their rhetoric become." 505:
reasons. Finnufrists & uralics call people, who see the invalidity of these artificial groups lunatics and troll and psycopat and whatever words they can create in their hate. They censor every time Mr. Maracz article here, they censor every real critic. They (finugorists & uralists) live in an irreal world, that is their problem.
2888:Ƒs is in the same row as the English word father, even though Ƒs does not mean father in Hungarian. Do you understand now the problem? Summarized: The problem is the English word in front of the row, that means something completely different, than the Hungarian word. The table is incorrect, as it is. Is that clear, bachman? 819:, it is dicussed if personal pronouns exist in the Uralic language family at all). Contrary to that, Finnish does feature personal pronouns but I once read that they might have been introduced due to heavy influence of the neighbouring IE-languages. At least the 3rd person singular/plural pronouns hĂ€n/he (hĂ€n kĂ€vel 4440:
illustrates words being quite different in form from the other in a line. The word "father", Finnish isĂ€, could be a cognate of the Hungarian word Ƒs (ancestor), but the correct Hungarian word for father is apa. The other problematic word pair is suoni-Ă©r /=vein/. Duo to the completely different word
2623:
PFU must be later than maybe 2500 BC. But how do we tell if the loanword is actual Proto-Indo-Iranian, and not rather late satem-PIE? But I realize that we say "west of the Ural", and I say "unknown" in "Criticism". I think "is believed" (by whom?) should be replaced with something more non-commital.
627:
Thanks for your warning, Nyenyec. :) But do we really have to "stay on linguistic territory"? After all, the page is about the Finno-Ugric languages, in all aspects. Certainly the most important aspect is linguistic, but historical and political aspects of the language grouping are legitimate too.
569:
Actually the story begins even earlier, with the Habsburg (Austrian) rule in the 19th century. The first proponents of the Finno-Ugric theory in Hungary were all German born (an often cited fact by the critics). Budenz and Hunfalvy (the two main proponents) were targets of accusations (repeated until
291:
Yes, Mk270, you're absolutely right, in fact, incomplete lexical diffusion may have some of the characteristics of lexical borrowing among related dialects. But, that's all "second-year stuff", as it were. Here we're trying to stick to the basics. This raging debate, as you must know, involves people
3213:
Yes. (I was that anon.) Her name is Kaisa HĂ€kkinen. This particular article name is translated, 'About the situation and problems of the etymological research of the Finno-Ugric languages', and the book/anthology means 'Structure and development of modern Finnish 2'. The complete data for the latter
3095:
So the dogma even gets more phantastic (nobody proved anything, as usual): the Finnish word suoni was originally ín (tendon), and got later the meaning vein. And, to make the thing more interesting, they invented the word jennÀ for vein, which now had no name after this strange meaning-modification.
2887:
Bachman, you can so long explain a wrong table, as you like, it remains wrong and incorrect. Once again very slowly: The Hungarian word Ă­n has absolutely nothing to do with the English word vein, and these two words are in the same row. Do you understand, what is the problem? Also the Hungarian word
2500:
sadly, after all this time, no real evidence for notability of FU criticism has surfaced. The article should probably note that the evidence for relationship is rather weaker than for e.g. Indo-European, and that a Ural-Altaic group is sometimes advanced, on even weaker grounds. But that's about it.
2342:
ABSTRACT by author: "One must always make a clear distinction between things that one has demonstrated with evidence, & things that one has not. Sometimes the latter might be a valuable pointer for further research, however it must be clearly labeled as speculation, because to do otherwise would
2057:
When I reverted Antifinnugor's usual changes, I left in the "list of ground words" that she added. I don't think they are relevant here, since they don't illustrate anything about the Finno-Ugric language grouping. They aren't cognates or anything. But I'll leave it to a linguistic expert to make
1470:
Well, in that case, the Finnish structure is very close to the Hungarian one, in fact it matches exactly the Turkish structure I have discussed above, i.e. 'I'-Genitive suffix + 'dog'-Possessive suffix. Can anyone comment on the Estonian and Sami examples quoted above by Hippophaë? Do those forms of
1014:
Just to be absolutely clear about the terminology, English "my", "your", etc. are possessive adjectives rather than pronouns. While this is a minor point in terms of the present discussion, it is worth clarifying. The difference between a possessive adjective and a possessive pronoun is very simple:
483:
One could say that the proliferation of off the wall theories after the silencing of all criticism in the years of socialism could be considered natural. What's truly scary is the aggressiveness of the proponents of said theories. A professor at a department of Finno-Ugristics refused to comment on
382:
Is it the case that most of the words in a row of the table do in fact have the same meaning? If not, we should remove the English column. I like what ] did with "Ă­n (means sinew/tendon)". Are there other words in the table that don't translate to the indicated English word? They could be marked
2622:
no, it's just that a millennium is about the precision of these estimates. We might say: Proto-FU: probably 3rd millennium, PIE, probably 4th millennium. It may also be (late) 4th for PFU and (late) 5th for PIE, I don't think anyone can say. If there are really Proto-Indo-Iranian loanwoards in PFU,
2317:
I do support a separate in-depth article about the objections to the theory. Of course, the article title should be spelled right, to begin with. Then, the objections naturally need to be qualified as hypothetical and/or minority opinion. I reproduce below the evidence of serious work disputing the
1134:, etc. are declined, then they clearly are independent possessive pronouns (what I was referring to as just "possessive pronouns"). Hungarian lacks determinative possessive pronouns (what I was referring to as "possessive adjectives") because it uses possessive endings which serve the same purpose: 610:. What I'm trying to say is that you'll open up a Pandora's box if you try it here. I warned you... And all I said before is off the record :), I was just trying to explain the intensity of this issue to people who seem to be surprised how strongly some Hungarians feel about this linguistic debate. 582:
A debate began at the end of the 19th century between Budenz and Våmbéry about the Finno-Ugric or Turkic origins of Hungarian. This was the Ugric-Turkic war, also discussed in Angela Marcantonio's book more than a hundred years later. Anyway, the issue had a strong political aspect even back then.
542:
The initial work was done by Joseph Budenz (sp?). It was later found to be highly flawed, and was corrected and extended by . During the Soviet occupation of eastern Europe in the twentieth century, critics of the Finno-Ugric theory were repressed for political reasons. (Why exactly did the USSR
353:
examples. The article says that the table of cognates "illustrat the sound laws". I have no idea what that means. Is it possible to explain an example or two, in such a way that anyone who speaks English could understand? Explaining a Finno-Ugric example would naturally illustrate the fact that
3275:
somebody provided the examples "Afro-Asiatic, or Sino-Tibetan" in addition to Indo-European, in the criticism section. I am not so sure that this was well done, because both Afro-Asiatic (as opposed to Semitic) and Sino-Tibetan are afaik disputed, and rather on the same standing, evidence-wise, as
3102:
could you maybe not break up my comments with your interspersals? And also, you may take me from your hitlist again. What I said is not my own theory, and I would never claim to be competent enough to decide about which FU words are cognate. I was only, like you should be doing, pointing out the
135:
I don't get it. We have an outspoken critic of the FU hypothesis here. It ist true that the family is not undisputed. Somebody even dug up references for you. Yet we still don't have a decent "criticisms" paragraph. It seems you prefer to mess with the swadesh list and repeat your rantings, rather
126:
Pasquale, I never saw any argumentation from you other than troll and psychopat. Obviously you are one, and try to pass your characteristic to others. Are you really so unqualified? Dr. MarĂĄcz article is important one, he is a linguist, and not a psychopat, like you. Please do not censor articles
2802:
This is how it looks correctly. If the words in the table do not match the English ones, people are badly informed, and this is therefore a bad table. Also the English words after the Hungarian ones suggest, these are Hungarian words, which is absolutely confusing. If a vikipedia editor believes,
2554:
later, probably opening a gap between Proto-Language and earlies attestation at least as large as in the IE case. I was not aware of the "honeybee". This should by all means be included (because it not only gives a hint to the date, but also to the location of the Proto-Language). This still puts
1550:
well, the point of the Swadesh list is to give cognates, if extant. Hence AFU's constant sinew/tendon reversions (because, obviously, he cannot be expected to grasp the concept). Of course, nobody is assuming genetic relationship on Swadesh grounds alone, without morphological comparisons. It's a
560:
that is highly unpopular in India because it became associated with British colonialism. I also wonder why the Soviets would care. You would rather think they would try to bring the Magyars to identify with other "soviet peoples", i.e. Altaic. Maybe they were trying to prevent the Hungarians from
2525:
A judicious comment, but I would dispute one point: while Uralic is a bit more distant, it has been established that Finno-Ugric is a tighter grouping than Indo-European: Proto-Finno-Ugric contains specifically Indo-Iranian loanwords (notably "honey", "honeybee"), indicating a much later date of
209:
vis-Ă -vis a 'd' in Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Balto-Slavic, etc. It's part of Grimm's Law. These laws are by definition exceptionless, although there may subsets of exceptions accounted for by subrules, such as Verner's Law within Grimm's Law, or restricted phenomena such analogy (which has its own
5455:
common grammar except of the Sumerian type of agglutination, which is also characteristic for Turkish, Basque, Persian, Etruscan, Armenian and other languages, and therefore it is unlogical and counterproductive to classify them into this artificial, in reality by nothing justified mini groups.
5454:
language groups say, that the languages of these "groups" are clearly related by agglutination and the features, that are common among the Turanian (Sumerian) agglutinating languages. What the criticizers maintain is, however, that these artificial mini groups have very few words common, and no
2716:
Meryan and Muromian were most probably Finno-Mordvinic languages. They may have belonged to the Mordvinic languages, the Finno-Lappic languages, or they may have formed a separate language branch or language branches within the Finno-Mordvinic languages. As hardly anything is known about those
2390:
ABSTRACT from Cambridge Scientific Abstracts. "The notion of a unique Finno-Ugric genetic node is challenged in a reexamination of the evidence widely held to have established it: 119 Hungarian lexical correspondences put forward during the 1870s by Jozsef Budenz, who, contrary to a widespread
618:
very interesting. I would love to have this article, but for "Finno-Ugric languages" it may indeed be better to stay on linguistic territory. You know, Hungary is great and all, but I think nobody would have to be ashamed of a common heritage with the Finns, either. If I was Finnish, I think I
169:
Personally, I welcome the addition of sets of cognates, but with a caveat. Apparently, it leads fools to think that they are supposed to see outward, superficial similarities among the forms cited as cognates, when in fact the determination of sets of cognates has absolutely nothing to do with
504:
Nyenyec, the point is, that this artificial little group has no common features of any kind. No common words except perhaps 8 or 10 words, no common grammar except of agglutination. It come to existence for political reasons, and now it tries to claim, that it will be eliminated for political
296:
is a member of the Finno-Ugric language family hurts some people's national pride. Amazing? Ludicrous? Unbelievable? Downright offensive? I agree, but I have no explanation for it. And, no, you're not taking the side of (not mine, please!) this page's one and only opponent, as I don't believe
1510:
01:42, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) Go and follow the links to the Swadesh lists. Unbelievable. For some reason, terminating long vowels are removed inconsistently. It's like the compiler had a Finnish dictionary and a mild case of dyslexia. In addition, there are recent words like "person" in the list;
669:
Hippo: vein is Ă©r in Hungarian. If you add words, should do that correctly. Please only ONE word for one notion. Your many words are confusing and senseless. List of similar words in these languages are typically full of mistakes, just check the internet. The wikipedia should not be that bad
648:
and how those debates have been hijacked by non-linguists with a nationalistic political agenda, who insist on pushing their claims in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but notice that neither of those debates involves the denial of a well-established genetic, language-family
127:
and throw your hate to your surroundings. This is senseless, characterizes only you and does not help anybody. If you have objections, please tra to express them objectively and argue. Your hate harms you, and primarily you. If we want to barr trolls, the first candidate are you. Thanks,
556:"as come to be seen as anti-patriotic or even treasonous": add "by the nationalist right-wing fringe". By all means, we need this section. Even a separate article maybe. So "Finno-Ugric" became associated with "Soviet occupation" in Hungary? That's interesting, and comparable to the 2206:
Hippo, if possible, please do not demonstrate your unscrupulousness, primitivness and wildness, and unability to think by reverting again. Especially leave the reference in to the critic of these groups. Then we can avoiding your primitive reverting orgias in the future. Thanks.
3581:, like family words (mother, father, brother, sister), words for body parts, like eyes, leg, hand, foot, neck, etc., words for living environment like house, grass, way, path, and the like, household tools like fork, bottle, and vessel, and foods like bread, fat, corn, and meat. 2744:
should not be placed in the classification tree, because their status is not clear enough. It would be more sensible not to put them somewhere in the tree but to give more information on them and their vague status within the Finno-Mordvinic languages below in the same chapter.
3081:
Like that you can easily prove, that the English word table is the same, than the German word Schule. They are in fact more similar, than Ă­n and souni. Just invent a 'proto language', no matter, that it never existed, add a bit hate, a bit defamation, so easy is that, bachman.
1872:
It has probaly a better English word. Please name it. I call ground words the parts of the body, eye, nose, ear, leg, hand, the family like father, mother, brother, sister,, the living environment, like house, way, sea, that people living in a simple environment, for sure use.
1471:
the noun meaning 'dog' also contain a possessive suffix? If so, the section of the article can be revised accordingly. It then becomes clear that the Uralic morphology which replaces the "determinative possessive pronouns" closely matches the corresponding Altaic morphology.
933:
I hoped someone around here would know more - I have unfortunately forgot where I've read that - some Google hit on the Finnish language and its history - but it might as well be incorrect. Though, couldn't "hÀn" resemble the Swedish "han/hon" 3rd person singular pronoun?
3293:
Well, this may be my POV speaking, but, while I too have heard people like Campbell, who have never studied either family, calling them "unproved", I am frankly at a loss for why. Extensive etymological dictionaries of both are easily available, by strict Neogrammarians
1564:
Hippo, whenever I put the list of some simple ground words onto the page, you delete. Do sou shame the Finnish language, your mother tongue? By parroting about my "incompetence" and other personal insults again me you only reveal your simple mindedness and ill behaviour.
1023:
of the personal pronouns, strictly speaking the equivalents of "of me", "of you", etc., but with a case ending instead of a preposition; e.g. Japanese "watashi" ("I") : "watashi-no hon" ("my book"), where the suffix "-no" is the equivalent of a genitive case ending.
1852:
These are not arbitraryly selected words, but ground words, I took from a linguistic book. The parts of the body, the family, the living environment. If you have an other selection, please list the words, and we can use also them, if they are ground words. Thanks,
605:
issue. The population in Hungary (including several WP editors) is highly polarized. Think pro-life vs. pro-choice intensity and then some. This is the very reason why Hungarian WP editors don't address current political issues in the Hungarian Knowledge (XXG)
4027:
The vocabularies of the Finno-Ugric or Uralic languages are very different. The differences suggest that the people who spoke these languages' ancestors (if any) never lived together, and also suggest, that the grammatic similarities are consequences of the
3508:
into a redirect to this page. I did, and AFU called me a vandal for that. I want to make sure this is not perceived my personal interest, and restrain myself from reverting for the moment. That I leave the page be for now is no endorsement of its existence.
3584:
These language categories came into existence at the end of the 19th century and were created by foreigners (no Finns, Estonians, Hungarians or others whose languages are categorized to be in this group). In Hungary the linguist who promoted this group was
2019:
has lots of Swadesh lists. Perhaps one reason for having them there is that they can easily link words in the list to definitions. Anyway, it would be kind of silly to have a Finno-Ugric list here when all the others are at Wiktionary. Note that someone
3180:
Ok, hipo, you center of my heart, thanks. One learns every day. Why do you write also jÀndek? Why do you write ten words for two in the cognates table? Are they different cases? Nominativ will be compared only with nominativ, as you probably do not know.
420:
in the LemminkÀinen's rescurrection scene, this change of meaning is better explained. Ancient belief was such that the veins were woven: they were more like ropes. In this context, it makes sense that in Finnish, rope-like things inside the body were
3918:
has and uses 6 levels of endings (håz, håzak, håzaké, håzakéi, håzakéié, håzakéiétól /=house, houses, belongs to houses, belong to houses, belong to objects, that belong to houses, from objects, that belong to objects, that belong to houses/),
3036:
they do not mean the same thing anymore. Now I suppose this statement could be disputed, but it is certainly not addressed by simply pointing out that they do not mean the same thing today. The implication is that there was a word in PFU that
2405:
This is of course no endorsement of AFU's edit warring. But AFU or no AFU, the theory is disputed by intelligent people as well as by cranks. So far we only have this Marcantonio to cite, but surely the articles contain other references
962:
There are no possessive pronouns in Finnish at all. They have never existed nor introduced to the language. Instead of possessive pronouns (my, your, his, her, etc.), the genitive of the personal pronouns is used to express possession.
841:
This statement is correct and I think there is no reason to change it. It is also valid for Indo-European languages, but there are many languages in which verbs are not inflected by person, e.g. Chinese (and other isolating languages).
2048:
There are not many of these words, and few of them are undisputed; perhaps the most certain case is nimi (name). The words vesi (water), myydÀ (to sell) and nainen (woman) are also considered to belong to this stratum of loanwords."
689:
The finish Hungarian word list is not specific finish words with this or that origin, but fundamental words, that are contained in every language. Please do not delete them, they illustrate both languages elementar, original words.
79:
I don't believe the NPOV warning belongs here, because there is absolutely no serious scientific dispute about the status of the Finno-Ugric language family. The fact that this page has been under attack for the past few weeks by a
1890:(which should get its own article) relies on 200 (or 100?) specially chosen words of the 'basic vocabulary' assumed to change slowly over time. This assumption is one of the criticized points of the approach. fwiiw, a Swadesh list 2545:
I admit that my comments are aimed at accomodating the critics (e.g. the emphasis of "does not imply racial unity", of course a linguistic commonplace). I agree that Proto-FU would have been much later than PIE, but of course the
923:'s hazy recollection, "I once read that might have been introduced due to heavy influence of the neighbouring IE-languages". Obviously one should find a reliable source to support this claim, or remove it from the article. -- 703:
indeed. (*yawn*) AFU, you are making a fool of yourself. Each and every of your statement makes it painfully obvious you have not the slightest idea of linguistics. Take some university classes and come back in a year or two.
597:
There is an ongoing effort on the Hungarian pages to write about these language groups, the alternative theories and the political aspects of the question. So far with little success, the articles don't seem to stabilize yet.
578:
and especially the history of the daco-romanian continuity theory. Of course many people don't realize or accept that there is no direct connection between the origins of a language and the origins of the people speaking it.
814:
I think that it would be better to write that the usage of the inflected word itself is sufficient in the Finno-Ugric languages and thus a personal pronoun is not needed (if there exist any: On the Talk page of the article
1460:, at least, contains both a pronoun in the genitive case (minun) and a pronominal possessive suffix (-ni). I don't know the analysis of the other two, but surely the possessive suffixes should be commented on here. - 3053:"sinew". Now of course we should state the exact changes that led to both words. So far, they are absent from the article, but some of them may be "glimpsed" from comparing the words: most prominently, the initial 1439:"Just to be absolutely clear about the terminology, English "my", "your", etc. are possessive adjectives rather than pronouns. While this is a minor point in terms of the present discussion, it is worth clarifying" 1918:, listing exactly the 200 words proposed by Swadesh, and come back with a number how many of them are cognate. It is poitless to list unrelated words under a heading "Common vocabulary". ] 13:01, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC) 570:
today) that they conspired with the Habsburg court in Wien to supress all national pride in the Hungarians by relating them to the "fish-smelling" people in the North, who never built an empire - they didn't have
262:; and so on and so forth. The regularity of sound change is one of the most basic principles in the application of the comparative method. For a wonderfully detailed, yet brief, introduction, see Calvert Watkins, 3205:
Thanks! I added this reference to the references section of the article. Do you have Hakkinen's first name (or at least initial)? Also, someone should provide translations for the article and journal titles.
4444:
This table also illustrates, that especially the so called ugric group has very big differences to Hungarian, even though the theory says, they are linguistically nearer to Hungarian, than others in the whole
3596:
very different (Finnish and Estonian European, Nordic, Lappic Mixed, North European and Asian, Hungarian European mixed, others Mongolian), this indicates, that these people have never lived together (except
5416:: Buot olbmot leat riegĂĄdan friddjan ja olmmoĆĄĂĄrvvu ja olmmoĆĄvuoigatvuoĂ°aid dĂĄfus dĂĄssĂĄsaĆŸĆŸab, Sudhuude kea addib huervnu ha ianedivdym ha vyigjat gakget neabbydut gyunnuudeaset gyivdy vuekhakaĆĄ vuoinnain. 1902:, however, it should by all means be quoted as "common vocabulary". After all, the section here is entitled not "Swadesh list" but "Common vocabulary", so I ask AFU to stop his inappropriate replacement of 1836:
words does nothing to disprove a language relationship. I could cite any number of unrelated words between English and German. The task is to find as many related words as possible, and then judge those.
2999:
Actually, the explanation is helpful to all us non-linguists in the audience. I still don't know what "illustrating the sound laws" means. Could someone explain that, either here or in the article? --
1844:
I do not want to disprove relationship, I know, because it is evident thru agglutination, that Hungarian and Finnish are related. I just want to show, that these groups (fu/uralic) are nonsense groups.
3589:, who learned Hungarian when he was 23 years old, and was never able to speak it on the level of a native speaker. The categories came into existence for political reasons and not for linguistic ones. 574:
back then ;). The origins of a people's language were important for the definition of the national identity. It is still important to many people. You can find parallels closer to Hungary than India:
547:
I'm sure there's a lot more that could be said on the topic. For example, reasons why it's a popular issue. I don't think Americans ever felt the same way about English being a Germanic language.
2777:
I removed the NPOV warning just now. I think whatever problems there might have been have recently been addressed. If you disagree, please put the warning back and state your objections here. --
683:Ă­n is not vein in Hungarian.Ă­n is leader/sinew/tendon in English, but not vein. Please stop including erroneous words. Or correct the English word and the others also. Your list is simply wrong. 2125:) to something like (based on ). This scheme would require making the References a numbered list. But I think such a scheme would scale well for having lots of in-text references. Comments? -- 3224:
It should be noted that these reconstructions are, at best, 30 years old. Later research may have proceeded. Incidentally, K. HĂ€kkinen has published an etymological dictionary of modern Finnish,
2803:
that suoni and ín are somehow relatid, should try to prove that. Father and Ôs's relation is somewhat more believable by looking at the words, this can be also mentioned. Thank for fixing that.
2430:
I would ask AFU to recognize that both his English skills and his conviction prevent him from writing acceptable articles. I invite him to continue to contribute towards the inclusion of his pov
903:
Come to think of it, perhaps the last two paragraphs of the intro section should be split off into a "Structural features" section. The features could get expanded explanations and examples. --
949:
That's just a coincidence. Finnish "hĂ€n" is of Finno-Ugric or even Uralic origin. It is etymologically equivalent to Estonian "end, enda", North Sami "son", Erzyan "son", Hungarian "Ƒ", etc. --
1320:
Pasquale, I hope I haven't been offensive. But German is my native language and I'm sure that "Das ist mein." as well as "Das ist alles mein." are wrong. (More precisely "Das ist alles mein"
700: 2042:"Some loanwords are shared by several Finno-Ugrian languages, and the oldest-established loanwords can in fact be identified as having passed from Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Finno-Ugrian. 2475:
review linked above thoroughly debunk Marcantonio. Both reviews say a little about the history of the Finno-Ugric classification that might go in the article. --00:12, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
1437:
The usage of the pronoun is similar to the usage of adjectives, which are inflected differently, depending on whether the described noun appears in the sentence or not. You have written
467:
aspects of the Finno-Ugric group. If the political controversy is really so intense that "academists rarely dare to speak up and criticize", then it's worthy to be mentioned somewhere.
855:
The Uralic languages have personal pronouns but no possessive pronouns. At least I haven't heard there were possessive pronouns in any Uralic language, but correct me, if I'm wrong. In
2410:). Also, what we are talking about is not scholars disputing the Finno-Ugric relationship, but rather proposing a Finno-Ugric-Turkic group (i.e. Hungarian would be related with Turkic 337:
Had this fool ever studied any linguistics at all, he would know that what counts most is having a correct understanding of the methodology, not which language group you apply it to.
297:
incomplete lexical diffusion is what he had in mind. He keeps asking the same two questions, which no one can answer, of course, for the simple reason that they make no sense at all.
4493: 3397: 5422:: Minden emberi lĂ©ny szabadon szĂŒletik Ă©s egyenlĂ” mĂ©ltĂłsĂĄga Ă©s joga van. Az emberek, Ă©sszel Ă©s lelkiismerettel bĂ­rvĂĄn, egymĂĄssal szemben testvĂ©ri szellemben kell hogy viseltessenek. 2590:
The "Urheimat" of the proto-language of the modern Finno-Ugric languages, known as Proto-Finno-Ugric, is believed to have been to the west of the Ural mountains, some 5000 years ago.
803:
ok, but that is hardly notable. It would be hard to find a language that doesn't do this (ok, it's eroded in English, but even English retains 3rd sg, and archaic 2nd sg, endings)
5404:: Kaikki ihmiset syntyvĂ€t vapaina ja tasavertaisina arvoltaan ja oikeuksiltaan. Heille on annettu jĂ€rki ja omatunto, ja heidĂ€n on toimittava toisiaan kohtaan veljeyden hengessĂ€. 5410:: KĂ”ik inimesed sĂŒnnivad vabadena ja vĂ”rdsetena oma vÀÀrikuselt ja Ă”igustelt. Neile on antud mĂ”istus ja sĂŒdametunnistus ja nende suhtumist ĂŒksteisesse peab kandma vendluse vaim. 3627:
agglutinating languages listed, including Turkish, Persian, Basque, etc. Here we call Turanian agglutinating languages those languages that reside along the emission line of the
3341:
Fair point. The status of Omotic does seem to remain rather debatable; I've looked at Omotic a bit, and those languages are really remarkably different from any of the rest. -
2856:(gasp) gets the point of the table. Or, if anybody is capable of this, it would be even cooler to give the reconstructed PFU word, with its recoustructed meaning, for each row. 2478:
how sad. Especially the "looming marginalisation of historical linguistics" part. Still, I suggest a short "Criticism" section where we mention both the book and its debunking.
3886:
even if the sentence clearly indicates that plurality, Hungarian uses the plural inflection only if plurality were otherwise unclear. Example: five boys = öt fiĂș (five boy) in
686:
Please argue, your deleting terrorism is senseless. Obvoiusly you will continue this forever- let's see, who has more patience, the terrorist hippo, or the rest of the world.
2397:
Thus, the claims Antifinnugor advances (whether they are accurate or not), are noted and reviewed in academic journals. I think that is the requested evidence of notability.
5428:: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. 1114:
I am sorry. It may just be that my terminology is obsolete (at least as far as the Knowledge (XXG) is concerned). I was using "possessive adjectives" as an exact synonym of
3177:
The Finnish word for "sinew" and "tendon" is "jÀnne" (*jÀndek) not jennÀ. Please be more careful with the orthography. The etymological counterpart is "ideg" in Hungarian.
2709:
and Muromian be included? They were spoken in the area between Mordvinian and Estonian, but I doubt that anything is known about these languages, except from place names.--
3505: 3389: 3696:). For Hungarian foreign linguists (e.g. B. Collinder) created "cases", but these are unused in Hungarian grammar, since counterproductive for understanding and learning. 2361: 270:(the explanation of the reconstruction of the Proto-Indo-European word for 'daughter-in-law' is extremely instructive). Incidentally, the Knowledge (XXG) article on the 3849:
verbs can easily express, doing something repeatedly or only once for a short time. (csavar-csavargat-csavarint /= sqeeze, squeeze repeatedly, squeeze once, shortly/).
628:
Maybe some history could be added (Budenz and Hunfalvy), without getting into the modern intense political issues. (Hungary-specific issues are more relevant on the
3481: 640:
How about an article on the "Sociopathy of Language Family Affiliation" and add a link to this page as an illustration? Personally, I am quite familiar with the anti-
170:
surface similarities, but rather with the application of the rules of phonological change in the history of each specific member of the language family. Consider the
3431:
it is also what I have done now. the VfD outcomes were 'no consensus', arguably a correct inclusionist interpretation of the vote. The page could still be needed,
284:
I don't want to be seen to be taking the side of your opponent(s?) here, but sound changes are not exceptionless, if they proceed by incomplete lexical diffusion.
3201:, SKS 1984. It gave reconstructions only for the 28 words that appear in all Finno-Ugric languages and whose etymology was uncontested in earlier literature. 397:
pointed out in the article, there's a better meaning for the English column: it's a translation of the original word that the cognates are all derived from.
144:
criticism of the theory (and no, the criticism is no "ITS NOT TRUE! LIES!". There is serious criticism, and it would be heard, if you presented it decently).
2300:
I wrote the critical page for this page, and hippo permanently deletes the link to that. I hope, too, that this this may not remain to be the case forever.
5438:
are clearly very similar, their speakers understand each other in great parts. The others are quite far in appeareance and vocabulary from the above ones.
3007:
sure. it is an admission that the actual sound laws are still missing from this article, and that some may be guessed from the table. To take the famous
1949:
Finnish and Hungarian are not the only Finno-Ugric languages; the table should also include Estonian, North Sami, Erzya, Meadow Mari, and Komi at least.
92:
Hear hear! (Although I must admit it's been entertaining to watch.) I only disagree with one tiny part of the above: this page has been attacked by a
3276:
FU.(more precisely, not AA as such is disputed, but which languages to include, and which not to) But this may be nitpicking, and I don't really care.
495:
Nyenyec, you found a truly "independent" newspaper, that is well known of his dirty, unobjective and pornographic style. This is really fascinating.
2035:
Finnish seems to have borrowed heavily from IE languages during the ages, even including vocabulary for such basic concepts as "water" and "mother".
859:, personal pronouns are often omitted, because the personal suffix indicates the person and there is no need to repeat it. The 3rd person singular 516:
is correct that the cited magazine (Magyar Narancs) is leftwing ans is taking sides in matter (the Finno-Ugric side). However the points, that:
2078:
Foreign language titles should be presented with an English translation, in parentheses next to the original, for regular mono-lingual readers.
1486:
Estonian and North Sami have no possessive suffixes (any more). In Finnish, the personal pronoun can be omitted and you can also say "koirani"
1247:"Das ist mein." is not a correct German sentence. If "mein" is used without a substantive, it has to be inflected for gender. i.e: Das ist mein 662:
Please do NOT delete the selected ground words. What you do is simply terror. Also do not censor the links. Are you so afraid of the truth?
5564: 2811:
Neither father nor ancestor are on the table, and the cognacy of suoni and Ă­n has been proved to Encyclopedia Britannica's satisfaction. -
2085:
In particular, I wonder where the "list of cognates" came from. Possibly it's from one of the cited references, but I can't tell which. --
59: 3363: 2937:
I think there are many more people like him where he came from, and we'll just have to live with reverting the article from time to time.
2984:
If anybody is capable of this, it would be even cooler to give the reconstructed PFU word, with its recoustructed meaning, for each row.
2799:
English Finnish Hungarian vein suoni ér tendon jÀnne ín father isÀ apa ancestor esi-isÀ Ôs
3435:
substantial material accumulates in the "Criticism" section in this article. Until that happens, these pages should just be redirects.
459:
That sounds like an interesting issue in itself, one that should be covered in Knowledge (XXG). Possibly it should be covered on the
3898:
goes one step ahead in this concept, and does not build plural at all, uses double words instead, e.g. I see hills = I see hill-hill.
677:
Hippo, please do not delete: - Mr. Maracz link - Finnish-Hungarian ground word list - The text of the critic. It is short, but true.
157: 3370: 3257: 3250: 3243: 3218: 2280:. If you continue to refuse accepting this deal, and if you continue to violate policy, this may not remain to be the case forever. 1063:
Maybe I misunderstand something, since I'm not a linguist. But in Hungarian the (for the lack of a better word) possessive pronoun
2903:
specifically for AFU, right at its beginning. If this is not enough, I don't think anything can be done to make him get the point.
3309:
ok, I admit I am innocent about any knowledge of Sino-Tibetan. A Chinese linguist told me it is disputed, but that may have been
979:
In English (German, Russian, etc.) you cannot say "I's dog", "you's dog", "he's dog", "she's dog", but you have to use separate
153:
It seems to me as if Antifinnugor is the one introducing POV to this article, for instance replacing "believe" with "point out"
2438:
like mark did, so we can duly note the opinions of these scholars. Any other mode of contribution of AFU has proven fruitless.
425:, whereas in Hungarian it differentiated to another rope-like thing, the tendon. Actually, the Finnish word means also "lode". 3232: 3120:
Well, this is the way, I can make remarks exactly to the ones, I want to answer. How would you answer your single thoughts?
1943:
the list contains Germanic and Baltic loan words, e.g. hammas, Àiti, meri etc.; one should use original Finnish words instead
1067:(mine) is declined. Thus nom. enyém, acc. enyémet, dat. enyémnek, gen. enyémé, etc. However, enyém, tiéd (yours), etc. are 379:
doesn't mean they have the same (or even similar) meaning. I've tried to explain that a little in the text above the table.
5494:
Marcantonio, Angela & Pirjo Nummenaho & Michela Salvagni (2001): 'The "Ugric-Turkic Battle": A Critical Review'. In
2463:
by Johanna Laakso. It is a book review of Angela Marcantonio's "The Uralic language family. Facts, myths and statistics". --
325:
Well, pasquale, you better try to concentrate here to agglutinating languages. Your ie cognates are here of not much value.
5031:. They are there with cyrillic letters, in this table you can see their latin form following the Hungarian phonetic rules. 2000:. Compound words would anyway be not the sort of words we are interested in because they are usually coined more recently. 1915: 3015:
case, the claim is, not mine but apparently the specialists', that these words have a common source in the Proto-Language,
538:
I think the article should have a section on the history of the Finno-Ugric classification. Here's a bare-bones outline:
2311: 3359: 2011:
of "Swadesh list" would be appropriate. An actual Swadesh list should be on Knowledge (XXG). ] 10:45, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
3500:
It is against WP policy to have two articles about the same subject. This is what the page is at the moment. This is
2219:, and thus in violation of WP policy, and showing you for the edit warrior you are. I am glad for Hippo's janitorial 1299:
occurs also as an independent possessive pronoun (as a predicate uninflected for gender). Or is that not the case?
5552: 5543: 47: 38: 17: 4047:
from across the Uralic family, which may serve to give an idea of how big are the differences in these languages.
3978: 680:
What you do is blind terror. Are you really that primitive, and without arguing, you just eliminate others work;
3860: 2784:
I put it back, since it is still discussed. Please only remove, if everybody agrees withthe contents. Thanks.
2094: 916: 649:
connection. So, here we have reached new heights in paranoia and phanta-linguistics. Thanks, Knowledge (XXG)!
543:
care?) Recently in Hungary, the Finno-Ugric grouping has come to be seen as anti-patriotic or even treasonous.
307:
Well, you can go to Google and type these five words: "erku two regular sound change" and read what comes up.
3392:. Regrettably, some of the information listed there simply contradicts assertions made in this article and in 349:
It might be nice to put something of the above explanation in the main article. You'd have to change it from
728:
What does that mean? Could someone provide examples in Hungarian and Finnish, with translations to English?
5086: 5082: 5078: 5074: 5070: 2121:
Thanks for the translations! I'm considering changing the reference that Mustafaa added from (based on the
890: 292:
who know little about linguistics, but apparently have some political axe to grind. Apparently, saying that
271: 171: 1894:
simply take the normal words for these 200 items and compares them. If a word has changed its meaning from
5481:
Marcantonio, Angela (2004) 'What Is the Linguistic Evidence to Support the Uralic Theory or Theories?' In
3362:, and has room to be expanded, it is certainly at least "Knowledge (XXG) average in regard to defects" as 2333:
Marcantonio, Angela (2004) 'What Is the Linguistic Evidence to Support the Uralic Theory or Theories?' In
1964:
I corrected the spelling errors and added possible cognates. Is this in line with the general practice? --
476: 3710: 2039: 5469: 3473: 2255:
here, for once, I must admit you have a point. I assumed you were under the impression of using reason.
2071: 1071:, unlike mein in german. Hungarian lacks determinative possessive pronouns, as discussed above, we say 1044: 717: 641: 557: 460: 372: 3491:
I think these were the issues for which AFU felt it necessary to create a separate "Ctitique" article.
3415:
well, you don't need to be an admin to make it a redirect to this article. Which is what it should be.
3182: 3139: 3130: 3121: 3083: 3023: 2966: 2919: 2804: 2785: 2301: 2249: 2227: 2208: 2148: 2109: 1874: 1854: 1846: 1566: 693: 671: 663: 594:. Supporting the Finno-ugric theory was supposedly strengthening the "brotherhood" with these nations. 513: 506: 496: 326: 128: 120: 3057:
is missing from the Hungarian words, so one change that I do glimpse is that apparently, PFU initial
2319: 2838: 2746: 2718: 2676: 2464: 2098: 1957: 1491: 1143: 1016: 1004: 950: 882: 872: 843: 3901: 3793: 3714: 3586: 3514: 3440: 3420: 3322: 3281: 3158: 3108: 3066: 2942: 2861: 2688: 2628: 2560: 2506: 2483: 2443: 2419: 2285: 2260: 1142:'my dog'. This type of morphology is obviously quite different from the Finno-Lappic data cited by 645: 575: 194: 3946: 2965:
Your hate and defamation is somewhat boring, bachman. As your incorrect tables and reverting are.
5096:
Here are the numbers from 1 to 10 in Finnish, Estonian, North Sami, Erzya, Mansi, and Hungarian:
4557: 4527: 4465: 4458: 3678: 3578: 2852:
Maybe the 'English' column should go, and each FU word should be given with its meaning, so that
2761: 2726: 2710: 1603: 1588: 1123: 1119: 1115: 1100: 1080: 1068: 1040: 992: 980: 443: 293: 1922: 1043:
page clearly states that "my" is a possessive pronoun, too. Also, recently I wrote this on the
416:
might mean a sinew. However, if you check the Finnish Kalevala, particularly what it says about
3648: 3895: 3718: 3567: 3295: 3254: 3247: 3240: 3229: 3215: 2741: 2001: 1442: 1253: 935: 920: 828: 417: 175: 3942: 2994:
I notice that the table is patiently explained, specifically for AFU, right at its beginning.
5504: 5464: 4537: 4532: 4507: 4502: 4015: 3945:
a, (pronounced as a sound between a and o), e, Ă­, Ăł, Ăș, Ă”,Ă», gy, ty, ny, z, zs, c (noted by
3832: 3632: 3563: 3551: 3477: 3393: 3299: 1598: 1593: 1583: 1578: 1147: 988: 868: 856: 816: 587: 2237:
reverts, as is everybody else here. You should recognize that your reasoning has convinced
5066: 4547: 4517: 3235:), aimed also for the general public. There's also the linguistic etymological dictionary 2460: 2021: 1946:
some words are already in the other list on the same page, there is no need to repeat them
1530:
Also, the Swadesh list uses single words, which is a broken method. For example, the word
1216: 984: 793: 112:
Thanks, Dbenbenn, I stand corrected. My Knowledge (XXG) terminology is still developing.
5515: 5039: 2725:
I agree, and I have included them as such. I hope an expert will add the info there is.--
4441:
form they are clearly no cognates, therefore is the word (Ă©r) is put into parenthesis.
3577:
The words of the Uralic and Finno-Ugric languages are very different. This includes the
4542: 4512: 4007: 3808: 3510: 3436: 3416: 3369:
By the way, people who watch this page might be interested in expressing an opinion at
3318: 3317:
such a family, but it does seem to be disputed which languages exactly are part of it.
3277: 3154: 3104: 3062: 2938: 2857: 2737: 2684: 2624: 2556: 2502: 2479: 2439: 2415: 2281: 2256: 1838: 1552: 804: 789: 705: 620: 562: 145: 97: 93: 4552: 4522: 4477: 3699: 3671: 3547: 3460: 3408: 3374: 3342: 3303: 3207: 3000: 2812: 2778: 2596: 2527: 2188: 2167: 2140: 2126: 2086: 2059: 2025: 1862: 1472: 1461: 1300: 1233: 1200: 1156: 1025: 1020: 996: 924: 904: 897: 650: 633: 550: 470: 439: 398: 394: 386: 364: 350: 338: 308: 298: 275: 205:. As you learn in a beginner course in Historical Linguistics, English regularly has 113: 105: 85: 3041:
meant "vein", and after going through several sound-changes, it ended up as Finnish
2459:
Before you refer to any publications by Angela Marcantonio, please read the article
5062: 5054: 5028: 3593: 3494: 3401: 2918:
to get an erronous table good? bachman, it is incorrect. As incorrect, as you are.
1887: 611: 591: 531: 488: 435: 266:, The American HeritageÂź Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000. 3605:
and the Mongolian people), and the grammatic similarities are consequences of the
3550:. But agglutination also occurs in non-Finno-Ugric and non-Uralic languages, like 2248:
Why are you so sure? I am not at all. Which reasoning do you mean, if any at all?
526:
proponents of finno-ugrist theories are labeled as treasonous and "Anti-Hungarian"
5047: 4492:
for better orientation. The concept of basic words is explained in detail on the
3835:, /vĂĄr- vĂĄrok, vĂĄrom, ... /= wait, wait for something/) that are also unknown in 3796:, Hungarian has both determinate (the=a,az) and indeterminate (a = egy) articles. 304:
Hmmm, "Erku" seems like a remarkable sound shift. What is the evolution of that?
5551:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
5520: 5447: 5043: 4446: 3989: 3535: 3485: 3388:
Also, I'd like to ask people with a background in linguistics to take a look at
3138:
exactly that is what I am doing. I am just a wiki editor, nothing more or less.
1538:
means "great". In Estonian, only the latter is in use. Result? Contrast between
46:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
3302:, for instance), and their similarities are obvious even on the face of it. - 3261: 2830: 2379:
Marcantonio, Angela (2001) 'The "Ugric-Turkic Battle": A Critical Review'. In
886: 285: 3195:
Suomalais-ugrilaisten kielten etymologisen tutkimuksen asemasta ja ongelmista
3129:
let it be my private business. I can decide myself, whom I talk with and why.
893:, which is the term (as I understand it) that applies specifically to verbs. 4481: 3993: 3982: 3972: 3960: 3939: 3915: 3905: 3887: 3856: 3846: 3828: 3822: 3812: 3769: 3765: 3738: 3729: 3693: 3651: 1283:) is a perfectly good German sentence. It just has a different meaning than 5505:
The Untenability of the Finno-Ugrian Theory from a Linguistic Point of View
3777:
Grammatical differences among languages of the Finno-Ugric and Uralic Group
1441:- I believe this suits well for German too, and it is still a minor point. 463:
page. After all, there's nothing to say the page should only be about the
5499: 5435: 4029: 3956: 3924: 3868: 3840: 3789: 3768:
and vice versa. At the beginn of a word they typically do not use double
3754: 3746: 3722: 3703: 3659: 3640: 3628: 3624: 3606: 3602: 3571: 3559: 3531: 1965: 1507: 479:("Political occultism in Hungary") by Andras ZsuppĂĄn (translation mine): 405: 5431: 4485: 4473: 4469: 4044: 4037: 4011: 3968: 3952: 3935: 3920: 3909: 3891: 3879: 3864: 3850: 3836: 3818: 3804: 3785: 3750: 3742: 3689: 3685: 3655: 3636: 3598: 3501: 2834: 2823: 2144: 1000: 629: 376: 358: 5065:
for certain discussed languages can be compared and contrasted at the
2040:
http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=25830
1914:(which is not cognate). AFU, if you want to be useful, go and build a 1546:. Totally borken. And the issue of dialect wasn't even mentioned yet. 5451: 4450: 3883: 3734: 3667: 3644: 3555: 3539: 1940:
isa, puhekykky, sairaanhoituja, and nemÀ are not Finnish words at all
1324:
is colloquial and old-fashioned.) Please look at the following table
375:, the English column could be confusing. Just because two words are 3863:, (Ă­r, megĂ­r /=writes, writes and finishes it/) that are unknown in 2007:
what? We have tons of "list of..." articles on WP. On Wictionary, a
274:
includes no sets of cognates. Anyway, sorry for being long-winded.
267: 193:
is exactly accounted for by the laws of sound change that lead from
4494:
Talk:Critique_of_Finno-Ugric_and_Uralic_language_groups#Basic_Words
2796:
Both the finnougric and the uralic page contain wrong word tables.
788:
Here is a cool site with all ways of inflecting a verb in finnish:
3821:
does not have a have verb in the sense of have in "I have a dog",
3761: 3472:
The issues Antifinnugor raised when he put the "attention" tag on
2706: 571: 81: 5510: 5035: 3757:
and Persian the last syllable is accented, with a few exceptions.
5393:
are the words, that are very unsimilar to the rest of the line.
2595:
That is, 3000 BC. Which date is wrong? (Or am I confused?) --
530:
I think are correct. I think even Antifinnugor agrees to these.
3977:
Dual, which means, besides singular and plural there is also a
2717:
languages, it it impossible to classify them more carefully. --
1295:). It is the former that I had in mind. My point was just that 885:. I've added your explanation to the article. I also changed 523:
this very aspect makes true scientific dialog almost impossible
189:, etc., although it bears no resemblance to them. But Armenian 5530: 3489: 3150: 1933:
This list makes no sense here and it contains several errors:
1039:
Sorry guys, but this is getting more and more confusing. The
154: 25: 3358:
I removed the {{attention}} tag. Although the article isn't
3313:
pov. As for Afro-Asiatic, well, it is undisputed that there
4498: 4049: 3504:
practice, but not permissible on WP. I ask editors to make
1952:
Knowledge (XXG) is not a dictionary, use Wiktionary instead
1921:
If you want to do a Swadesh list, do it in the Wiktionary
1574: 867:
can also be omitted, if it is clear who is referred to. In
3737:
is typically on a fixed word position, once in a word. In
3728:
the verb "have" either not existing or seldom used, as in
3546:
The primary grammatical similiarity of these languages is
3193:
I took the reconstructions initially from HĂ€kkinen (1979)
3049:
changes, both of sound and meaning, ended up as Hungarian
3022:
In the proto language, that never existed, as we all know.
1937:Ă” and Ă» do not belong to the correct Hungarian orthography 2322:. The in-depth article should probably start with these. 2097:, but it has been corrected by many people afterwards. -- 5490:
The Uralic Language Family: Facts, Myths and Statistics.
3407:
You mean it didn't get deleted? How did that happen? -
2822:
Antifinnugor, please familiarize yourself with the term
2760:
Do as you wish. This is more your specialty than mine.--
2350:
The Uralic Language Family: Facts, Myths and Statistics.
1572:
Here some of the ground words in Finnish and Hungarian.
838:"Another feature is that verbs are inflected by person." 1226:'my book') and an independent possessive pronoun (e.g. 361:
help a little; I don't have the knowledge to add more.
3526:
Critique of the Finno-Ugric and Uralic Language Groups
2432:
by searching the literature for articles supporting it
2276:
but that you are still suffered to insert your views,
724:
Another feature is that verbs are inflected by person.
1925:
and link it from this article 21:56, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
586:
As for Soviet motivations. Many nations speaking the
1523:
place indicator.) Most people use the word "human" (
983:. The difference is very evident in languages (like 790:
http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~hetahein/tiede/verbikaava.html
3482:
Knowledge (XXG):Pages needing attention/Linguistics
1213:
etc. (Can someone please double-check my Turkish?).
1118:, and "possessive pronouns" as an exact synonym of 3506:Critique of Finno-Ugric and Uralic language groups 3390:Critique of Finno-Ugric and Uralic language groups 2038:OK, looked this up, seems like water is disputed: 3149:And I shudder to think where WP would be without 1222:is both a determinative possessive pronoun (e.g. 5027:The Mordvin (Erzya) and Komi words are from the 3890:. This is expressed exactly in the same way in 3592:The speakers of the here grouped languages are 2872:I notice that the table is patiently explained, 1079:(the dog-my). HippophaĂ«, what do you think? -- 3371:Knowledge (XXG):Votes for deletion/Basic words 2226:Hipo breverts vandalistic and unscrupulously. 2166:Um, what? I didn't make any Swadesh list. -- 601:I warn you that politics in Hungary is a very 3981:form of nouns. This is completely unknown in 3619:Typology for Turanian agglutinating languages 2671:Proto-Finno-Lappic & Proto-Ugric: 1000 BC 2187:Actually, I put in the Swadesh list links. - 2108:I could not find them there. Where are they? 2024:on the Wiktionary Swadesh list talk page. -- 1122:. I should perhaps add a note on that to the 8: 2683:with a margin of error of what? 1000 years? 2278:as long as they are marked as minority views 3045:"vein", while the same word, going through 1150:morphology; cf. the following Turkish data: 871:, personal pronouns can also be omitted. -- 2093:The list of cognates came originally from 619:couldn't stop laughing about all this :D 520:there is a political aspect to the debate 2081:Each source should have a brief summary. 1813:kieli "tongue" (but: "pharynx" = nielu) 716:The last sentence of the top section of 140:and present a serious writeup about the 3364:Knowledge (XXG):Pages needing attention 3189:About proto-Finno-Ugric reconstructions 2705:Where should extinct languages such as 2655:This is the most probable development: 5549:Do not edit the contents of this page. 896:Please fact-check what I've added. -- 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 4457:Finnish, Mordvin, Komi and Hungarian 3400:). This should be resolved properly. 2368:(Vajda 2003, 48, 1-2, pp117-121), in 1916:Swadesh list of Hungarian and Finnish 1534:in Finnish means "big", and I-E loan 354:cognates aren't necessarily similar. 158:Knowledge (XXG):Neutral Point of View 7: 3825:has such a verb (nekem van = I have) 3713:to indicate ownership, therefore no 3534:criticize the classification of the 2147:list is excellent. Thanks for that. 1861:What is a "ground word", anyway? -- 477:Politikai okkultizmus MagyarorszĂĄgon 264:Indo-European and the Indo-Europeans 3988:Three-way distinction in the local 2701:Less known extinct Finnic languages 2366:The Canadian Journal of Linguistics 2360:(Saarikivi 2004, 40, 1, pp187-191, 1045:discussion page of Uralic languages 181:'two' is an exact cognate of Latin 3692:) or no grammatical cases at all ( 2312:Criticism of the Finno-Ugric group 1802:nenĂ€ (ancient: pulmonary disease) 1146:; instead, it closely matches the 24: 3725:. (hĂĄz, hĂĄzam /=house, my house/) 3260:). Quite expensive, all of them. 3226:Nykysuomen etymologinen sanakirja 1613:isĂ€ (but notice: Ă€ijĂ€ "old man") 1116:determinative possessive pronouns 1099:Would someone clarify, please? -- 119:Yes, pasquale is crank, I agree. 5534: 5397:Text illustrating some languages 5057:of some languages discussed here 3530:For the following reasons, some 911:Possessive Pronouns and Suffixes 430:Finno-Ugric as a political issue 29: 3199:Nykysuomen rakenne ja kehitys 2 2372:(Kunnap, 2003, 39, 1, pp55-57). 2356:This book has been reviewed in 1762:ruoho (but: "tanner" = ground) 1120:independent possessive pronouns 1069:independent possessive pronouns 968:Finnish: minun koirani - my dog 646:Daco-Romanian continuity theory 3214:are (NRJK 2) PieksĂ€mĂ€ki 1984, 1560:Ground words (base vocabulary) 1357:SchlĂŒssel. '(That is my key.)' 881:Thanks for the clarification, 658:Hippo, please stop your terror 434:I found the following text by 1: 3702:– may not exist in all, like 3666:extensive use of independent 3623:Here are the features af all 3239:in three volumes, 1992-2000 ( 2989:I agree, that would be cool! 974:North Sami: mu beana - my dog 197:to Armenian. Ditto for Latin 3717:, and generally no usage of 3677:no noun classes, that is no 2668:Proto-Finno-Volgaic: 1500 BC 2436:pointing us to the abstracts 2074:could use a lot of cleanup. 160:. ] 09:11, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) 5488:Marcantonio, Angela (2003) 2665:Proto-Finno-Permic: 2000 BC 2587:2000 BC? The article says 2348:Marcantonio, Angela (2003) 1793:hammas (ancient word: pii) 1519:breath, or a life/animacy; 1490:(koira 'dog' + ni 'my'). -- 1326: 1019:says — they simply use the 5590: 3861:verb modification prefixes 3760:Turanian languages prefer 2662:Proto-Finno-Ugric: 3000 BC 1923:Wiktionary:en:Swadesh_list 971:Estonian: mu koer - my dog 732:In Finnish one would say: 712:Verbs inflected by person? 210:rules). Examples: English 18:Talk:Finno-Ugric languages 5048:Word lists, grammars etc. 3979:dual (grammatical number) 3522:12:52, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3497:19:27, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3428:18:18, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3411:18:01, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3404:17:30, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3377:01:09, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3354:removed {{attention}} tag 3306:12:28, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3289:20:01, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3210:20:25, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3185:20:55, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3116:12:44, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3003:08:54, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2807:20:07, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2788:20:07, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2781:21:02, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2721:16:48, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2713:14:09, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2679:22:09, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2467:23:52, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2451:13:54, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2427:13:47, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2252:12:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2215:your remarks are clearly 2211:08:46, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1622:Ă€iti (ancient word: emo) 1464:23:49, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1075:(the I dog-my) or simply 927:00:29, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 907:23:42, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 900:23:25, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 708:21:16, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 696:11:19, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 674:08:22, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 670:reference, do you agree? 666:07:49, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 636:00:02, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 614:05:27, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 565:21:25, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 553:21:01, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 534:05:27, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 491:04:29, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 473:02:22, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 389:00:23, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 367:01:31, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 301:21:53, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 288:03:02, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 278:22:41, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC) 131:08:21, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 123:08:21, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 116:23:46, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC) 88:22:41, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC) 3684:many grammatical cases ( 3463:18:33, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3448:18:32, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3345:18:35, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3330:18:21, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3264:18:35, 2004 Dec 20 (UTC) 3166:21:25, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3142:21:02, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3133:21:02, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3124:21:02, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3086:11:12, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3074:11:23, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) 3026:11:12, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2969:08:22, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2950:10:38, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2922:08:22, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2869:09:03, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2841:03:10, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2815:20:33, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2764:22:29, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2749:21:45, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2729:16:56, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2696:09:43, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2636:14:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2599:13:27, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2568:12:28, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2530:11:05, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2514:08:22, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2491:07:59, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2461:Linguistic Shadow-Boxing 2304:12:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2293:13:00, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2230:12:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2191:15:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2170:13:58, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2151:12:14, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2112:12:14, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2095:Encyclopaedia Britannica 2089:21:02, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2062:20:49, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2028:16:35, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2015:I agree, but Wiktionary 2004:09:51, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1960:21:25, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1857:16:36, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1849:16:40, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1841:15:59, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1569:15:49, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1251:. (mein Buch) <=: --> 1236:22:41, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1103:21:52, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1083:20:37, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1028:21:36, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1007:18:04, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 875:20:00, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 846:20:00, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 831:11:27, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 807:11:12, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 796:10:44, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 653:01:09, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 623:08:04, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 509:11:09, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 499:19:11, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) 408:01:20, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 401:02:46, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC) 341:01:14, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 311:20:22, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC) 108:23:32, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC) 5521:Another word collection 5446:The criticizers of the 5044:Another word collection 4043:The following are some 3396:. (Please refer to its 3237:Suomen sanojen alkuperĂ€ 2129:19:46, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC) 2123:Encyclopedia Britannica 2101:17:06, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1968:00:32, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1906:(apparently cognate to 1877:09:13, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1865:04:28, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1555:15:54, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1494:17:00, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1475:01:38, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1445:10:23, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1303:19:32, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1256:09:32, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC) 1252:That's mine (my book). 953:17:34, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC) 938:09:32, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC) 590:were living within the 272:Indo-European languages 172:Indo-European languages 148:21:37, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC) 5527:End of the critic page 3927:have maximal 5 levels. 3480:have been answered on 3061:is lost in Hungarian. 2473:Journal of Linguistics 2358:Journal of Linguistics 1722:polku, ("alley") kuja 915:Alright, I decided to 5547:of past discussions. 5470:Finno-Ugric languages 4010:– is present also in 3971:features, unknown in 3536:Finno-Ugric languages 3474:Finno-Ugric languages 2659:Proto-Uralic: 4000 BC 2471:Yes, both it and the 2022:brought up this point 1333:noun used in sentence 1181:'you' (Genitive case 642:Aryan invasion theory 558:Aryan invasion theory 461:Finno-Ugric languages 254:(verb, from Germanic 226:(adj., from Germanic 42:of past discussions. 5507:by Dr. LĂĄszlĂł MarĂĄcz 3904:are very different. 3853:misses this concept. 3197:, which appeared in 3103:opinion of experts. 2202:Hippo, do not revert 2053:List of ground words 1886:it is true that the 1653:jalka, (acc.) jalan 1515:is a derived word. ( 5496:Linguistica Uralica 5483:Linguistica Uralica 4032:cultural emission. 3715:possessive pronouns 3711:possessive suffixes 2381:Linguistica Uralica 2370:Linguistica Uralica 2335:Linguistica Uralica 2318:group collected by 1673:maa, (humus) multa 1551:hint, not a proof. 1277:Das ist alles mein. 1126:page. As Hungarian 993:possessive pronouns 991:), which have both 981:possessive pronouns 576:Origin of Romanians 412:The Hungarian word 195:Proto-Indo-European 75:Disputed article??? 3679:grammatical gender 3609:cultural emission. 3151:your contributions 2455:Angela Marcantonio 2072:References section 2058:that decision. -- 1642:sisar (Indo-Eur.) 1322:(That's all mine!) 1289:Das ist mein Buch. 1124:Possessive pronoun 1041:possessive pronoun 632:page, anyway.) -- 5577: 5576: 5559: 5558: 5553:current talk page 5498:37, 2, pp81-102. 5388: 5387: 5025: 5024: 4464:Here some of the 4435: 4434: 4018:, irrelevant here 3833:verb conjugations 3745:always the first 3670:, also known as ( 3594:anthropologically 3521: 3488:in this comment: 3447: 3427: 3329: 3296:Christopher Ehret 3288: 3165: 3115: 3073: 2979:Dbachmann wrote: 2949: 2868: 2826:. The tables are 2695: 2635: 2567: 2513: 2490: 2450: 2426: 2414:as with Finnic). 2408:get to work, AFU! 2292: 2267: 1829: 1828: 1702:meri (Indo-Eur.) 1435: 1434: 1419:(That is my car.) 1387:(That is my cup.) 1001:personal pronouns 921:User:Oliver Uwira 644:theories and the 383:in the same way. 373:table of cognates 72: 71: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 5581: 5573: 5561: 5560: 5538: 5537: 5531: 5485:40, 1, pp 40-45. 5465:Uralic languages 5099: 5098: 4715:metsikkö, metsĂ€ 4499: 4330:juolgi, juolggi 4050: 4016:Slavic languages 3513: 3478:Uralic languages 3439: 3419: 3394:Uralic languages 3321: 3300:Sergei Starostin 3280: 3157: 3107: 3065: 2941: 2860: 2687: 2627: 2559: 2505: 2482: 2442: 2418: 2383:37, 2, pp81-102. 2284: 2259: 1992:but this is not 1575: 1327: 1230:'That's mine.'). 1199:(a man's name; ( 817:Uralic Languages 588:Uralic languages 234:(verb); English 165:Sets of cognates 68: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 5589: 5588: 5584: 5583: 5582: 5580: 5579: 5578: 5569: 5535: 5529: 5516:Word collection 5478: 5461: 5444: 5399: 5094: 5083:Erzya (Mordvin) 5067:Rosetta Project 5059: 5040:Word collection 4462: 4041: 4025: 4004: 3779: 3621: 3616: 3528: 3386: 3356: 3273: 3191: 3175: 2800: 2794: 2775: 2703: 2653: 2651:Proto languages 2457: 2337:40, 1, pp40-45. 2315: 2204: 2068: 2055: 1562: 1505: 1366:(That's mine.) 1285:Das ist meines. 1211:'Hasan's horse' 913: 714: 660: 432: 238:(from Germanic 214:(from Germanic 201:versus English 167: 138:doing some work 77: 64: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5587: 5585: 5575: 5574: 5567: 5557: 5556: 5539: 5528: 5525: 5524: 5523: 5518: 5513: 5508: 5502: 5500:online version 5492: 5486: 5477: 5474: 5473: 5472: 5467: 5460: 5457: 5443: 5440: 5398: 5395: 5386: 5385: 5380: 5375: 5372: 5367: 5364: 5361: 5357: 5356: 5351: 5346: 5341: 5336: 5333: 5330: 5326: 5325: 5320: 5317: 5314: 5311: 5308: 5305: 5301: 5300: 5295: 5292: 5289: 5286: 5283: 5280: 5276: 5275: 5272: 5269: 5266: 5261: 5258: 5255: 5251: 5250: 5245: 5240: 5237: 5234: 5231: 5228: 5224: 5223: 5218: 5215: 5212: 5209: 5206: 5203: 5199: 5198: 5193: 5188: 5185: 5182: 5179: 5176: 5172: 5171: 5168: 5165: 5162: 5159: 5156: 5153: 5149: 5148: 5145: 5140: 5137: 5132: 5129: 5126: 5122: 5121: 5118: 5115: 5112: 5109: 5106: 5103: 5093: 5090: 5058: 5052: 5023: 5022: 5019: 5016: 5013: 5010: 5007: 5002: 4999: 4996: 4993: 4990: 4987: 4981: 4980: 4977: 4974: 4971: 4968: 4965: 4960: 4957: 4954: 4951: 4948: 4945: 4939: 4938: 4935: 4932: 4929: 4926: 4923: 4918: 4915: 4912: 4909: 4906: 4903: 4897: 4896: 4893: 4890: 4887: 4884: 4881: 4876: 4873: 4870: 4867: 4864: 4861: 4855: 4854: 4851: 4848: 4845: 4842: 4839: 4834: 4831: 4828: 4825: 4822: 4819: 4813: 4812: 4809: 4806: 4803: 4800: 4797: 4792: 4789: 4786: 4783: 4780: 4777: 4771: 4770: 4767: 4764: 4761: 4758: 4755: 4750: 4747: 4744: 4741: 4738: 4735: 4729: 4728: 4725: 4722: 4719: 4716: 4713: 4708: 4705: 4702: 4699: 4696: 4693: 4687: 4686: 4683: 4680: 4677: 4674: 4671: 4666: 4663: 4660: 4657: 4654: 4651: 4645: 4644: 4641: 4638: 4635: 4632: 4629: 4624: 4621: 4618: 4615: 4612: 4609: 4603: 4602: 4599: 4596: 4593: 4590: 4587: 4582: 4579: 4576: 4573: 4570: 4567: 4561: 4560: 4555: 4550: 4545: 4540: 4535: 4530: 4525: 4520: 4515: 4510: 4505: 4461: 4455: 4433: 4432: 4430: 4427: 4424: 4421: 4418: 4416: 4414: 4411: 4407: 4406: 4403: 4400: 4398: 4395: 4392: 4387: 4384: 4381: 4377: 4376: 4371: 4366: 4364: 4362: 4360: 4357: 4354: 4351: 4347: 4346: 4343: 4338: 4336: 4334: 4331: 4328: 4325: 4322: 4318: 4317: 4314: 4311: 4308: 4305: 4300: 4298:čalbmi, čalmmi 4295: 4292: 4289: 4285: 4284: 4281: 4278: 4273: 4268: 4263: 4258: 4255: 4252: 4248: 4247: 4244: 4241: 4238: 4235: 4232: 4231:guolli, guoli 4229: 4226: 4223: 4219: 4218: 4215: 4212: 4209: 4206: 4203: 4200: 4193: 4186: 4182: 4181: 4176: 4173: 4170: 4167: 4164: 4163:suotna, suona 4161: 4158: 4155: 4151: 4150: 4147: 4144: 4141: 4138: 4133: 4130: 4127: 4124: 4120: 4119: 4116: 4113: 4110: 4107: 4102: 4100:čotta, čoddaga 4097: 4090: 4083: 4079: 4078: 4075: 4072: 4069: 4066: 4063: 4060: 4057: 4054: 4040: 4034: 4024: 4021: 4020: 4019: 4008:palatalization 4003: 4002:Other features 4000: 3999: 3998: 3997: 3996: 3986: 3966: 3965: 3964: 3963:contains none. 3950: 3930: 3929: 3928: 3913: 3902:Plural markers 3899: 3874: 3873: 3872: 3854: 3844: 3826: 3816: 3809:negative verbs 3799: 3798: 3797: 3778: 3775: 3774: 3773: 3758: 3749:of a word, in 3732: 3726: 3707: 3697: 3682: 3675: 3631:culture, e.g. 3620: 3617: 3615: 3612: 3611: 3610: 3590: 3582: 3575: 3527: 3524: 3471: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3466: 3465: 3464: 3452: 3451: 3450: 3449: 3385: 3382: 3380: 3355: 3352: 3351: 3350: 3349: 3348: 3347: 3346: 3334: 3333: 3332: 3331: 3272: 3271:other families 3269: 3268: 3267: 3266: 3265: 3222: 3190: 3187: 3174: 3171: 3170: 3169: 3168: 3167: 3144: 3143: 3135: 3134: 3126: 3125: 3100: 3099: 3098: 3097: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3076: 3075: 3030: 3029: 3028: 3027: 3017: 3016: 2997: 2996: 2987: 2986: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2973: 2972: 2971: 2970: 2956: 2955: 2954: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2909: 2908: 2907: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2892: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2873: 2870: 2845: 2844: 2843: 2842: 2817: 2816: 2798: 2793: 2790: 2774: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2731: 2730: 2702: 2699: 2698: 2697: 2673: 2672: 2669: 2666: 2663: 2660: 2652: 2649: 2648: 2647: 2646: 2645: 2644: 2643: 2642: 2641: 2640: 2639: 2638: 2637: 2609: 2608: 2607: 2606: 2605: 2604: 2603: 2602: 2601: 2600: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2576: 2575: 2574: 2573: 2572: 2571: 2570: 2569: 2536: 2535: 2534: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2518: 2517: 2516: 2515: 2495: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2456: 2453: 2395: 2394: 2393: 2392: 2385: 2384: 2376: 2375: 2374: 2373: 2353: 2352: 2345: 2344: 2339: 2338: 2314: 2309: 2308: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2295: 2294: 2273: 2272: 2271: 2270: 2269: 2268: 2243: 2242: 2234: 2233: 2232: 2231: 2221: 2220: 2203: 2200: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2194: 2193: 2192: 2178: 2177: 2176: 2175: 2174: 2173: 2172: 2171: 2157: 2156: 2155: 2154: 2153: 2152: 2133: 2132: 2131: 2130: 2116: 2115: 2114: 2113: 2103: 2102: 2083: 2082: 2079: 2067: 2064: 2054: 2051: 2046: 2045: 2044: 2043: 2036: 2030: 2029: 1990:sairaanhoitaja 1986:sairaanhoituja 1970: 1969: 1954: 1953: 1950: 1947: 1944: 1941: 1938: 1931: 1930: 1929: 1928: 1927: 1926: 1881: 1880: 1879: 1878: 1867: 1866: 1831: 1827: 1826: 1823: 1820: 1817: 1814: 1811: 1807: 1806: 1803: 1800: 1797: 1794: 1791: 1787: 1786: 1783: 1780: 1777: 1774: 1771: 1767: 1766: 1763: 1760: 1757: 1754: 1751: 1747: 1746: 1743: 1740: 1737: 1734: 1731: 1727: 1726: 1723: 1720: 1717: 1714: 1711: 1707: 1706: 1703: 1700: 1697: 1694: 1691: 1687: 1686: 1683: 1680: 1677: 1674: 1671: 1667: 1666: 1663: 1660: 1657: 1654: 1651: 1647: 1646: 1643: 1640: 1637: 1634: 1631: 1627: 1626: 1623: 1620: 1617: 1614: 1611: 1607: 1606: 1601: 1596: 1591: 1586: 1581: 1561: 1558: 1557: 1556: 1504: 1501: 1500: 1499: 1498: 1497: 1496: 1495: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1455: 1453: 1452: 1451: 1450: 1449: 1448: 1447: 1446: 1436: 1433: 1432: 1421: 1411: 1401: 1400: 1389: 1379: 1369: 1368: 1358: 1351: 1341: 1340: 1335: 1330: 1325: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1307: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1293:C'est le mien. 1262: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1231: 1215:Incidentally, 1214: 1212: 1207: 1195: 1186: 1177: 1168: 1163: 1151: 1138:'the dog' vs. 1109: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1088: 1087: 1086: 1085: 1053: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1032: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1009: 1008: 976: 975: 972: 969: 965: 964: 959: 958: 957: 956: 955: 954: 942: 941: 940: 939: 912: 909: 879: 878: 877: 876: 850: 849: 848: 847: 839: 833: 832: 811: 810: 809: 808: 798: 797: 785: 784: 783: 782: 781:= Passive form 775: 768: 761: 754: 747: 740: 726: 725: 713: 710: 699: 659: 656: 655: 654: 625: 624: 568: 545: 544: 536: 528: 527: 524: 521: 511: 510: 501: 500: 486: 485: 457: 456: 452: 451: 444:user talk page 431: 428: 427: 426: 403: 402: 369: 347: 346: 345: 344: 343: 342: 330: 329: 322: 321: 320: 319: 318: 317: 316: 315: 314: 313: 312: 268:online version 166: 163: 162: 161: 150: 149: 110: 109: 102: 101: 76: 73: 70: 69: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 5586: 5572: 5568: 5566: 5563: 5562: 5554: 5550: 5546: 5545: 5540: 5533: 5532: 5526: 5522: 5519: 5517: 5514: 5512: 5509: 5506: 5503: 5501: 5497: 5493: 5491: 5487: 5484: 5480: 5479: 5475: 5471: 5468: 5466: 5463: 5462: 5458: 5456: 5453: 5449: 5441: 5439: 5437: 5433: 5429: 5427: 5423: 5421: 5417: 5415: 5411: 5409: 5405: 5403: 5396: 5394: 5392: 5384: 5381: 5379: 5376: 5373: 5371: 5368: 5365: 5362: 5359: 5358: 5355: 5352: 5350: 5347: 5345: 5342: 5340: 5337: 5334: 5331: 5328: 5327: 5324: 5321: 5318: 5315: 5312: 5309: 5306: 5303: 5302: 5299: 5296: 5293: 5290: 5287: 5284: 5281: 5278: 5277: 5273: 5270: 5267: 5265: 5262: 5259: 5256: 5253: 5252: 5249: 5246: 5244: 5241: 5238: 5235: 5232: 5229: 5226: 5225: 5222: 5219: 5216: 5213: 5210: 5207: 5204: 5201: 5200: 5197: 5194: 5192: 5189: 5186: 5183: 5180: 5177: 5174: 5173: 5169: 5166: 5163: 5160: 5157: 5154: 5151: 5150: 5146: 5144: 5141: 5138: 5136: 5133: 5130: 5127: 5124: 5123: 5119: 5116: 5113: 5110: 5107: 5104: 5101: 5100: 5097: 5091: 5089: 5088: 5084: 5080: 5076: 5072: 5068: 5064: 5063:Swadesh lists 5056: 5055:Swadesh lists 5053: 5051: 5049: 5045: 5041: 5037: 5032: 5030: 5020: 5017: 5014: 5011: 5008: 5006: 5003: 5000: 4997: 4994: 4991: 4988: 4986: 4983: 4982: 4978: 4975: 4972: 4969: 4966: 4964: 4961: 4958: 4955: 4952: 4949: 4946: 4944: 4941: 4940: 4936: 4933: 4930: 4927: 4924: 4922: 4919: 4916: 4913: 4910: 4907: 4904: 4902: 4899: 4898: 4894: 4891: 4888: 4885: 4882: 4880: 4877: 4874: 4871: 4868: 4865: 4862: 4860: 4857: 4856: 4852: 4849: 4847:kĂ€ljgotnemsz 4846: 4843: 4840: 4838: 4835: 4832: 4829: 4826: 4823: 4820: 4818: 4815: 4814: 4810: 4807: 4804: 4801: 4798: 4796: 4793: 4790: 4787: 4784: 4781: 4778: 4776: 4773: 4772: 4768: 4765: 4762: 4759: 4756: 4754: 4751: 4748: 4745: 4742: 4739: 4736: 4734: 4731: 4730: 4726: 4723: 4720: 4717: 4714: 4712: 4709: 4706: 4703: 4700: 4697: 4694: 4692: 4689: 4688: 4684: 4681: 4678: 4675: 4672: 4670: 4667: 4664: 4661: 4658: 4655: 4653:jalka, jalan 4652: 4650: 4647: 4646: 4642: 4639: 4636: 4633: 4630: 4628: 4625: 4622: 4619: 4616: 4613: 4610: 4608: 4605: 4604: 4600: 4597: 4594: 4591: 4588: 4586: 4583: 4580: 4577: 4574: 4571: 4568: 4566: 4563: 4562: 4559: 4556: 4554: 4551: 4549: 4546: 4544: 4541: 4539: 4536: 4534: 4531: 4529: 4526: 4524: 4521: 4519: 4516: 4514: 4511: 4509: 4506: 4504: 4501: 4500: 4497: 4495: 4491: 4487: 4483: 4479: 4475: 4471: 4467: 4460: 4456: 4454: 4452: 4448: 4442: 4439: 4431: 4428: 4425: 4422: 4419: 4417: 4415: 4412: 4409: 4408: 4404: 4401: 4399: 4396: 4393: 4391: 4388: 4385: 4382: 4379: 4378: 4375: 4372: 4370: 4367: 4365: 4363: 4361: 4358: 4355: 4352: 4349: 4348: 4344: 4342: 4339: 4337: 4335: 4332: 4329: 4326: 4323: 4320: 4319: 4315: 4312: 4309: 4306: 4304: 4301: 4299: 4296: 4293: 4290: 4287: 4286: 4282: 4279: 4277: 4274: 4272: 4269: 4267: 4264: 4262: 4261:giehta, gieđa 4259: 4256: 4253: 4250: 4249: 4245: 4242: 4239: 4236: 4233: 4230: 4227: 4224: 4221: 4220: 4216: 4213: 4210: 4207: 4204: 4201: 4198: 4194: 4191: 4187: 4184: 4183: 4180: 4177: 4174: 4171: 4168: 4165: 4162: 4159: 4156: 4153: 4152: 4148: 4145: 4142: 4139: 4137: 4134: 4131: 4128: 4125: 4122: 4121: 4117: 4114: 4111: 4108: 4106: 4103: 4101: 4098: 4095: 4091: 4088: 4084: 4081: 4080: 4076: 4073: 4070: 4067: 4064: 4061: 4058: 4055: 4052: 4051: 4048: 4046: 4039: 4035: 4033: 4031: 4022: 4017: 4013: 4009: 4006: 4005: 4001: 3995: 3992:– unknown in 3991: 3987: 3984: 3980: 3976: 3975: 3974: 3970: 3967: 3962: 3958: 3954: 3951: 3948: 3944: 3941: 3937: 3934: 3933: 3931: 3926: 3922: 3917: 3914: 3911: 3907: 3903: 3900: 3897: 3893: 3889: 3885: 3881: 3878: 3877: 3875: 3870: 3866: 3862: 3858: 3855: 3852: 3848: 3845: 3842: 3838: 3834: 3830: 3827: 3824: 3820: 3817: 3814: 3810: 3806: 3803: 3802: 3800: 3795: 3791: 3787: 3784: 3783: 3781: 3780: 3776: 3771: 3767: 3763: 3759: 3756: 3752: 3748: 3744: 3740: 3736: 3733: 3731: 3727: 3724: 3720: 3716: 3712: 3708: 3705: 3701: 3700:vowel harmony 3698: 3695: 3691: 3687: 3683: 3680: 3676: 3673: 3672:agglutination 3669: 3665: 3664: 3663: 3661: 3657: 3653: 3650: 3646: 3642: 3638: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3618: 3613: 3608: 3604: 3600: 3595: 3591: 3588: 3587:Joseph Budenz 3583: 3580: 3576: 3573: 3569: 3565: 3561: 3557: 3553: 3549: 3548:agglutination 3545: 3544: 3543: 3541: 3537: 3533: 3525: 3523: 3520: 3518: 3512: 3507: 3503: 3498: 3496: 3492: 3490: 3487: 3483: 3479: 3475: 3462: 3459:Good call. - 3458: 3457: 3456: 3455: 3454: 3453: 3446: 3444: 3438: 3434: 3430: 3429: 3426: 3424: 3418: 3414: 3413: 3412: 3410: 3405: 3403: 3399: 3395: 3391: 3384:Critique page 3383: 3381: 3378: 3376: 3372: 3367: 3365: 3361: 3353: 3344: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3328: 3326: 3320: 3316: 3312: 3308: 3307: 3305: 3301: 3297: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3287: 3285: 3279: 3270: 3263: 3259: 3258:951-717-712-7 3256: 3252: 3251:951-717-711-9 3249: 3245: 3244:951-717-692-9 3242: 3238: 3234: 3231: 3227: 3223: 3220: 3219:951-717-360-1 3217: 3212: 3211: 3209: 3204: 3203: 3202: 3200: 3196: 3188: 3186: 3184: 3178: 3172: 3164: 3162: 3156: 3152: 3148: 3147: 3146: 3145: 3141: 3137: 3136: 3132: 3128: 3127: 3123: 3119: 3118: 3117: 3114: 3112: 3106: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3085: 3080: 3079: 3078: 3077: 3072: 3070: 3064: 3060: 3056: 3052: 3048: 3044: 3040: 3035: 3032: 3031: 3025: 3021: 3020: 3019: 3018: 3014: 3010: 3006: 3005: 3004: 3002: 2995: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2985: 2982: 2981: 2980: 2968: 2964: 2963: 2962: 2961: 2960: 2959: 2958: 2957: 2948: 2946: 2940: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2921: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2899: 2898: 2897: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2871: 2867: 2865: 2859: 2855: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2848: 2847: 2846: 2840: 2836: 2833:but lists of 2832: 2829: 2825: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2814: 2810: 2809: 2808: 2806: 2797: 2791: 2789: 2787: 2782: 2780: 2772: 2763: 2759: 2758: 2757: 2756: 2755: 2754: 2748: 2743: 2739: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2728: 2724: 2723: 2722: 2720: 2714: 2712: 2708: 2700: 2694: 2692: 2686: 2682: 2681: 2680: 2678: 2670: 2667: 2664: 2661: 2658: 2657: 2656: 2650: 2634: 2632: 2626: 2621: 2620: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2613: 2612: 2611: 2610: 2598: 2594: 2589: 2588: 2586: 2585: 2584: 2583: 2582: 2581: 2580: 2579: 2578: 2577: 2566: 2564: 2558: 2553: 2549: 2544: 2543: 2542: 2541: 2540: 2539: 2538: 2537: 2529: 2524: 2523: 2522: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2512: 2510: 2504: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2496: 2489: 2487: 2481: 2477: 2476: 2474: 2470: 2469: 2468: 2466: 2462: 2454: 2452: 2449: 2447: 2441: 2437: 2433: 2428: 2425: 2423: 2417: 2413: 2409: 2403: 2402: 2398: 2389: 2388: 2387: 2386: 2382: 2378: 2377: 2371: 2367: 2363: 2359: 2355: 2354: 2351: 2347: 2346: 2341: 2340: 2336: 2332: 2331: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2327: 2323: 2321: 2313: 2310: 2303: 2299: 2298: 2297: 2296: 2291: 2289: 2283: 2279: 2275: 2274: 2266: 2264: 2258: 2254: 2253: 2251: 2247: 2246: 2245: 2244: 2240: 2236: 2235: 2229: 2225: 2224: 2223: 2222: 2218: 2214: 2213: 2212: 2210: 2201: 2190: 2186: 2185: 2184: 2183: 2182: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2169: 2165: 2164: 2163: 2162: 2161: 2160: 2159: 2158: 2150: 2146: 2142: 2139: 2138: 2137: 2136: 2135: 2134: 2128: 2124: 2120: 2119: 2118: 2117: 2111: 2107: 2106: 2105: 2104: 2100: 2096: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2088: 2080: 2077: 2076: 2075: 2073: 2065: 2063: 2061: 2052: 2050: 2041: 2037: 2034: 2033: 2032: 2031: 2027: 2023: 2018: 2014: 2013: 2012: 2010: 2005: 2003: 1999: 1995: 1991: 1987: 1983: 1979: 1975: 1967: 1963: 1962: 1961: 1959: 1951: 1948: 1945: 1942: 1939: 1936: 1935: 1934: 1924: 1920: 1919: 1917: 1913: 1909: 1905: 1901: 1897: 1893: 1889: 1885: 1884: 1883: 1882: 1876: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1864: 1860: 1859: 1858: 1856: 1850: 1848: 1842: 1840: 1835: 1824: 1821: 1818: 1815: 1812: 1809: 1808: 1804: 1801: 1798: 1795: 1792: 1789: 1788: 1784: 1781: 1778: 1775: 1772: 1769: 1768: 1764: 1761: 1758: 1755: 1752: 1749: 1748: 1744: 1741: 1738: 1735: 1732: 1729: 1728: 1724: 1721: 1718: 1715: 1712: 1709: 1708: 1704: 1701: 1698: 1695: 1692: 1689: 1688: 1684: 1681: 1678: 1675: 1672: 1669: 1668: 1664: 1661: 1658: 1655: 1652: 1649: 1648: 1644: 1641: 1638: 1635: 1632: 1629: 1628: 1624: 1621: 1618: 1615: 1612: 1609: 1608: 1605: 1602: 1600: 1597: 1595: 1592: 1590: 1587: 1585: 1582: 1580: 1577: 1576: 1573: 1570: 1568: 1559: 1554: 1549: 1548: 1547: 1545: 1541: 1537: 1533: 1528: 1526: 1522: 1518: 1514: 1509: 1503:Swadesh Lists 1502: 1493: 1489: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1474: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1466: 1465: 1463: 1459: 1458:minun koirani 1444: 1440: 1430: 1426: 1422: 1420: 1416: 1412: 1410: 1406: 1403: 1402: 1398: 1394: 1390: 1388: 1384: 1380: 1378: 1374: 1371: 1370: 1367: 1363: 1359: 1356: 1352: 1350: 1346: 1343: 1342: 1339: 1338:noun not used 1336: 1334: 1331: 1329: 1328: 1323: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1302: 1298: 1294: 1290: 1286: 1282: 1278: 1274: 1273:Das ist mein. 1270: 1269: 1268: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1263: 1255: 1250: 1246: 1245: 1244: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1235: 1232: 1229: 1228:Das ist mein. 1225: 1221: 1218: 1210: 1205: 1202: 1201:Genitive case 1198: 1193: 1189: 1184: 1180: 1175: 1171: 1166: 1161: 1158: 1157:Genitive case 1154: 1149: 1145: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1102: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1084: 1082: 1076: 1072: 1070: 1064: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1037: 1036: 1035: 1034: 1033: 1027: 1022: 1018: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1006: 1002: 998: 994: 990: 986: 982: 978: 977: 973: 970: 967: 966: 961: 960: 952: 948: 947: 946: 945: 944: 943: 937: 932: 931: 930: 929: 928: 926: 922: 918: 910: 908: 906: 901: 899: 894: 892: 888: 884: 874: 870: 866: 862: 858: 854: 853: 852: 851: 845: 840: 837: 836: 835: 834: 830: 826: 822: 818: 813: 812: 806: 802: 801: 800: 799: 795: 791: 787: 786: 780: 776: 773: 769: 766: 762: 759: 755: 752: 748: 745: 741: 738: 734: 733: 731: 730: 729: 723: 722: 721: 719: 711: 709: 707: 702: 697: 695: 691: 687: 684: 681: 678: 675: 673: 667: 665: 657: 652: 647: 643: 639: 638: 637: 635: 631: 622: 617: 616: 615: 613: 609: 604: 599: 595: 593: 589: 584: 580: 577: 573: 566: 564: 559: 554: 552: 548: 541: 540: 539: 535: 533: 525: 522: 519: 518: 517: 515: 508: 503: 502: 498: 494: 493: 492: 490: 482: 481: 480: 478: 474: 472: 468: 466: 462: 454: 453: 449: 448: 447: 445: 441: 437: 429: 424: 419: 415: 411: 410: 409: 407: 400: 396: 395:User:Mustafaa 392: 391: 390: 388: 384: 380: 378: 374: 368: 366: 362: 360: 355: 352: 351:Indo-European 340: 336: 335: 334: 333: 332: 331: 328: 324: 323: 310: 306: 305: 303: 302: 300: 295: 290: 289: 287: 283: 282: 281: 280: 279: 277: 273: 269: 265: 261: 257: 253: 249: 245: 241: 237: 233: 229: 225: 221: 217: 213: 208: 204: 200: 196: 192: 188: 184: 180: 177: 173: 164: 159: 155: 152: 151: 147: 143: 139: 134: 133: 132: 130: 124: 122: 117: 115: 107: 104: 103: 99: 95: 91: 90: 89: 87: 83: 74: 67: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 5570: 5548: 5542: 5495: 5489: 5482: 5445: 5430: 5425: 5424: 5419: 5418: 5413: 5412: 5407: 5406: 5401: 5400: 5390: 5389: 5382: 5377: 5369: 5353: 5348: 5343: 5338: 5322: 5297: 5263: 5247: 5242: 5220: 5195: 5190: 5142: 5134: 5095: 5087:Komi-permyak 5060: 5033: 5029:Swadesh list 5026: 5004: 4984: 4962: 4942: 4920: 4900: 4878: 4858: 4836: 4816: 4794: 4782:cjora, alja 4774: 4752: 4737:jĂ€rvi, meri 4732: 4710: 4690: 4668: 4648: 4626: 4606: 4584: 4564: 4489: 4463: 4443: 4437: 4436: 4389: 4373: 4368: 4359:ĂĄhčči, ĂĄhči 4340: 4302: 4297: 4275: 4270: 4265: 4260: 4214:menni, megy 4196: 4189: 4178: 4135: 4132:salla, sala 4104: 4099: 4093: 4086: 4042: 4026: 3955:contains 17 3947:B. Collinder 3764:followed by 3622: 3529: 3516: 3499: 3493: 3470: 3442: 3432: 3422: 3406: 3387: 3379: 3368: 3357: 3324: 3314: 3310: 3283: 3274: 3236: 3225: 3198: 3194: 3192: 3183:Antifinnugor 3179: 3176: 3160: 3140:Antifinnugor 3131:Antifinnugor 3122:Antifinnugor 3110: 3101: 3084:Antifinnugor 3068: 3058: 3054: 3050: 3046: 3042: 3038: 3033: 3024:Antifinnugor 3012: 3008: 2998: 2993: 2988: 2983: 2978: 2967:Antifinnugor 2944: 2920:Antifinnugor 2863: 2853: 2831:dictionaries 2827: 2805:Antifinnugor 2801: 2795: 2786:Antifinnugor 2783: 2776: 2715: 2704: 2690: 2674: 2654: 2630: 2562: 2551: 2548:attestations 2547: 2508: 2485: 2472: 2458: 2445: 2435: 2431: 2429: 2421: 2412:just as much 2411: 2407: 2404: 2400: 2399: 2396: 2380: 2369: 2365: 2357: 2349: 2334: 2325: 2324: 2316: 2302:Antifinnugor 2287: 2277: 2262: 2250:Antifinnugor 2238: 2228:Antifinnugor 2216: 2209:Antifinnugor 2205: 2149:Antifinnugor 2122: 2110:Antifinnugor 2084: 2069: 2056: 2047: 2016: 2008: 2006: 2002:Oliver Uwira 1997: 1993: 1989: 1988:ought to be 1985: 1981: 1977: 1976:ought to be 1973: 1971: 1955: 1932: 1911: 1907: 1903: 1899: 1895: 1891: 1888:Swadesh list 1875:Antifinnugor 1855:Antifinnugor 1851: 1847:Antifinnugor 1843: 1833: 1830: 1571: 1567:Antifinnugor 1563: 1543: 1539: 1535: 1531: 1529: 1527:) nowadays. 1524: 1520: 1516: 1512: 1506: 1487: 1457: 1454: 1443:Oliver Uwira 1438: 1429:That's mine. 1428: 1424: 1423:Das ist mein 1418: 1414: 1408: 1404: 1397:That's mine. 1396: 1392: 1391:Das ist mein 1386: 1382: 1376: 1372: 1365: 1361: 1360:Das ist mein 1354: 1348: 1344: 1337: 1332: 1321: 1296: 1292: 1291:, or French 1288: 1284: 1281:C'est Ă  moi. 1280: 1279:, or French 1276: 1272: 1254:Oliver Uwira 1248: 1227: 1223: 1219: 1208: 1203: 1196: 1194:'your horse' 1191: 1190:, or simply 1187: 1182: 1178: 1173: 1172:, or simply 1169: 1164: 1159: 1152: 1139: 1135: 1131: 1127: 1078: 1074: 1073:az Ă©n kutyĂĄm 1066: 1062: 936:Oliver Uwira 914: 902: 895: 880: 864: 860: 829:Oliver Uwira 824: 820: 778: 771: 764: 757: 750: 743: 736: 727: 715: 698: 694:Antifinnugor 692: 688: 685: 682: 679: 676: 672:Antifinnugor 668: 664:Antifinnugor 661: 626: 607: 602: 600: 596: 592:Soviet Union 585: 581: 567: 555: 549: 546: 537: 529: 514:Antifinnugor 512: 507:Antifinnugor 497:Antifinnugor 487: 475: 469: 464: 458: 433: 422: 413: 404: 385: 381: 370: 363: 356: 348: 327:Antifinnugor 263: 259: 258:) vs. Latin 255: 251: 247: 246:(Accusative 243: 242:) vs. Latin 239: 235: 231: 230:) vs. Latin 227: 223: 219: 218:) vs. Latin 215: 211: 206: 202: 198: 190: 186: 182: 178: 174:: Classical 168: 141: 137: 129:Antifinnugor 125: 121:Antifinnugor 118: 111: 78: 65: 43: 37: 5541:This is an 5448:Finno-Ugric 5111:North Sami 4844:kengelemsz 4695:maa, multa 4466:Basic Words 4459:Basic Words 4447:Finno-Ugric 4426:pöƋk, peƋk 4062:North Sami 3990:case system 3579:Basic Words 3228:this year ( 3034:even though 2326:begin quote 1972:Seems like 1209:Hasanın atı 891:conjugation 863:and plural 823:, he kĂ€vele 774:= They walk 718:the article 357:Linking to 250:); English 36:This is an 5476:References 5307:kahdeksan 5282:seitsemĂ€n 5120:Hungarian 4581:apa, atya 4488:words are 4453:category. 4074:Hungarian 3938:lacks the 3908:uses 'k', 3770:consonants 3766:consonants 3706:or Persian 3233:951027108X 2217:ad hominem 2066:References 2009:definition 1832:A list of 1745:szerencse 1616:apa, atya 1456:Hang on - 1347:SchlĂŒssel 1188:senin atın 1176:'my horse' 1170:benim atım 999:forms for 919:. I used 887:inflection 794:Jniemenmaa 767:= You walk 753:= He walks 746:= You walk 465:linguistic 222:; English 185:, English 142:linguistic 5571:Archive 2 5565:Archive 1 5420:Hungarian 5363:kymmenen 5332:yhdeksĂ€n 5211:njeallje 5108:Estonian 5079:Hungarian 5069:website: 5061:207-word 5034:See also 4911:plmanzsa 4853:hazugsĂĄg 4558:Hungarian 4528:Hungarian 4482:Hungarian 4345:laamp(a) 4059:Estonian 4036:Selected 3994:Hungarian 3983:Hungarian 3973:Hungarian 3961:Hungarian 3957:diphtongs 3940:Hungarian 3916:Hungarian 3906:Hungarian 3888:Hungarian 3882:uses the 3857:Hungarian 3847:Hungarian 3831:uses two 3829:Hungarian 3823:Hungarian 3815:does not. 3813:Hungarian 3782:Articles 3739:Hungarian 3730:Hungarian 3721:, but of 3709:They use 3694:Hungarian 3662:, etc... 3652:Hungarian 3649:Etruscian 3532:linguists 3398:talk page 3047:different 2839:HippophaĂ« 2747:HippophaĂ« 2719:HippophaĂ« 2677:HippophaĂ« 2550:are also 2465:HippophaĂ« 2401:end quote 2099:HippophaĂ« 1958:HippophaĂ« 1834:unrelated 1810:language 1604:Hungarian 1589:Hungarian 1492:HippophaĂ« 1409:(the car) 1377:(the cup) 1349:(the key) 1224:mein Buch 1144:HippophaĂ« 1017:HippophaĂ« 1005:HippophaĂ« 963:Examples: 951:HippophaĂ« 883:HippophaĂ« 873:HippophaĂ« 844:HippophaĂ« 760:= We walk 294:Hungarian 66:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 5459:See also 5436:Estonian 5408:Estonian 5319:Ƅololov 5310:kaheksa 5105:Finnish 5075:Estonian 4934:celjagy 4914:pĂŒdzösz 4908:kumazsa 4875:szemĂ©ly 4863:henkilö 4833:felesĂ©g 4766:szaridz 4763:inevegy 4760:inevegy 4056:Finnish 4053:English 4045:cognates 4038:cognates 4030:Sumerian 3959:, while 3932:Phonems 3925:Estonian 3896:Japanese 3869:Estonian 3841:Estonian 3794:articles 3792:have no 3790:Estonian 3755:Armenian 3747:syllable 3723:suffixes 3719:pronomes 3704:Estonian 3681:of words 3668:suffixes 3660:Estonian 3641:Armenian 3629:Sumerian 3625:Turanian 3607:Sumerian 3603:Estonian 3572:Sumerian 3568:Armenian 3560:Etruscan 3542:family: 3538:and the 3461:Mustafaa 3409:Mustafaa 3375:Dbenbenn 3343:Mustafaa 3304:Mustafaa 3208:Dbenbenn 3039:probably 3001:Dbenbenn 2854:even AFU 2835:cognates 2813:Mustafaa 2779:Dbenbenn 2742:Muromian 2736:I think 2597:Dbenbenn 2528:Mustafaa 2189:Mustafaa 2168:Dbenbenn 2141:Dbenbenn 2127:Dbenbenn 2087:Dbenbenn 2060:Dbenbenn 2026:Dbenbenn 1910:?) with 1863:Dbenbenn 1630:brother 1488:'my dog' 1473:Pasquale 1462:Mustafaa 1413:Das ist 1381:Das ist 1353:Das ist 1301:Pasquale 1271:What??? 1234:Pasquale 1140:a kutyĂĄm 1077:a kutyĂĄm 1026:Pasquale 1021:genitive 997:genitive 925:Dbenbenn 905:Dbenbenn 898:Dbenbenn 739:= I walk 651:Pasquale 634:Dbenbenn 551:Dbenbenn 471:Dbenbenn 440:Pasquale 418:Suonetar 399:Dbenbenn 387:Dbenbenn 365:Dbenbenn 359:cognates 339:Pasquale 309:Pasquale 299:Pasquale 276:Pasquale 176:Armenian 114:Pasquale 106:Dbenbenn 96:, not a 86:Pasquale 5544:archive 5511:Numbers 5442:Summary 5432:Finnish 5426:English 5402:Finnish 5349:ontolov 5335:ĂŒheksa 5316:kavkso 5313:gĂĄvcci 5285:seitse 5236:vihtta 5184:golbma 5161:guokte 5102:Number 5092:Numbers 5071:Finnish 5036:Numbers 4973:salxka 4947:hammas 4937:gyerek 4928:ejkaks 4869:lomany 4866:lomany 4850:kuilnĂŒ 4808:verösz 4795:husband 4769:tenger 4743:eryxke 4704:musjar 4659:pilyge 4656:pilyge 4637:menely 4634:menely 4631:taivas 4595:tjadja 4538:Finnish 4533:English 4508:Finnish 4503:English 4486:English 4474:Mordvin 4470:Finnish 4350:father 4202:mannat 4195:minna, 4188:mennĂ€, 4085:sydĂ€n, 4077:Nenets 4071:Khanty 4012:English 3969:Finnish 3953:Finnish 3943:phonems 3936:Finnish 3921:Finnish 3912:-i, -t. 3910:Finnish 3892:Turkish 3880:Finnish 3865:Finnish 3851:Finnish 3837:Finnish 3819:Finnish 3805:Finnish 3786:Finnish 3751:Turkish 3743:Finnish 3690:Finnish 3686:Turkish 3656:Finnish 3637:Turkish 3633:Persian 3614:Grammar 3599:Finnish 3564:Persian 3552:Turkish 3502:Wikinfo 3495:Nyenyec 3402:Nyenyec 3360:perfect 3262:| hyark 2824:cognate 2145:Swadesh 2017:already 1785:gyerek 1776:csalĂĄd 1770:family 1765:tenger 1750:border 1733:jumala 1725:ösvĂ©ny 1705:tenger 1679:forest 1639:sister 1619:mother 1610:father 1599:Finnish 1594:English 1584:Finnish 1579:English 1525:ihminen 1513:henkilö 1385:Tasse. 1287:(as in 1275:(as in 1204:Hasanın 1167:'horse' 1148:Turkish 1136:a kutya 989:Russian 917:be bold 869:Italian 857:Finnish 630:Hungary 612:Nyenyec 603:intense 532:Nyenyec 489:Nyenyec 436:Nyenyec 377:cognate 371:In the 260:dĆ«c-ere 248:dent-em 232:dom-āre 39:archive 5452:Uralic 5374:kemeƄ 5366:kĂŒmme 5354:kilenc 5344:vejkse 5291:sisem 5288:čieĆŸa 5264:guhtta 5257:kuusi 5230:viisi 5205:neljĂ€ 5187:kolmo 5178:kolme 5170:kettƑ 5167:kityg 5164:kavto 5155:kaksi 5139:vejke 5117:Mansi 5114:Erzya 5009:pĂ€ivĂ€ 5001:nyelv 4989:kieli 4985:tongue 4970:szudo 4925:lapsi 4905:polvi 4892:turun 4886:tikse 4883:ruoho 4859:person 4841:valhe 4830:götĂŒr 4821:vaimo 4805:mirde 4802:mirde 4791:fĂ©rfi 4788:ajlov 4785:cjora 4740:eryke 4711:forest 4640:enezs 4623:felhƑ 4620:kĂŒmör 4617:kovol 4611:pilvi 4585:mother 4572:tetja 4565:father 4548:Moksha 4518:Moksha 4484:. The 4451:Uralic 4410:tooth 4324:jalka 4291:silmĂ€ 4246:xal'Ă€ 4205:mija- 4157:suoni 4109:ƛələm 4092:sĂŒda, 4082:heart 3884:plural 3876:Nouns 3801:Verbs 3762:vocals 3735:Accent 3645:Basque 3570:, and 3556:Basque 3540:Uralic 3486:Ralesk 3366:says. 2792:Tables 2762:Wiglaf 2738:Meryan 2727:Wiglaf 2711:Wiglaf 2707:Meryan 2364:), in 2239:nobody 2143:, the 1994:sister 1982:father 1822:maito 1816:nyelv 1790:tooth 1782:lapsi 1779:child 1773:perhe 1759:grass 1756:hatĂĄr 1736:isten 1693:jĂ€rvi 1682:metsĂ€ 1670:earth 1645:nĂ”vĂ©r 1636:fivĂ©r 1417:Auto. 1375:Tasse 1217:German 1101:Dhanak 1081:Dhanak 985:German 701:terror 608:at all 240:tanĂŸuz 156:. See 5339:ovcci 5323:nyolc 5268:koto 5260:kuus 5239:vete 5233:viis 5217:nila 5214:nile 5208:neli 5196:hĂĄrom 5191:hurum 5181:kolm 5158:kaks 5128:yksi 4995:kĂ€ly 4992:kely 4967:nenĂ€ 4956:piny 4943:tooth 4921:child 4917:tĂ©rd 4889:tise 4879:grass 4872:mort 4827:ryva 4811:fĂ©rj 4799:mies 4779:mies 4757:meri 4727:erdĂ” 4721:viry 4718:viry 4707:föld 4701:moda 4698:moda 4691:earth 4673:tuli 4614:pely 4607:cloud 4601:anya 4589:Ă€iti 4578:baty 4575:alja 4543:Erzya 4513:Erzya 4496:page 4397:tiÌźl 4390:dolla 4386:tuli 4383:tuli 4380:fire 4374:niiƛe 4327:jalg 4313:szem 4303:ĆĄinča 4294:silm 4257:kĂ€si 4254:kĂ€si 4251:hand 4228:kala 4225:kala 4222:fish 4217:min- 4211:mən- 4208:mun- 4175:(Ă©r) 4160:soon 4154:vein 4129:sĂŒli 4126:syli 4115:szĂ­v 4094:sĂŒdam 4087:sydĂ€m 4068:Komi 4065:Mari 4023:Words 3859:uses 3807:uses 3173:JĂ€nne 3043:suoni 3009:suoni 2241:here, 1998:nurse 1908:suoni 1900:sinew 1819:milk 1799:nose 1753:raja 1742:onni 1739:luck 1719:path 1690:lake 1685:erdĂ” 1676:föld 1662:tuli 1659:fire 1633:veli 1625:anya 1536:suuri 1517:henki 1407:Auto 1383:meine 1197:Hasan 1183:senin 1160:benim 1155:'I' ( 1128:enyĂ©m 1065:enyĂ©m 777:kĂ€vel 770:kĂ€vel 763:kĂ€vel 756:kĂ€vel 749:kĂ€vel 742:kĂ€vel 735:kĂ€vel 572:Nokia 423:suoni 286:Mk270 256:tugƍn 236:tooth 228:tamaz 220:decem 216:tehun 136:than 98:troll 94:crank 82:troll 16:< 5450:and 5434:and 5414:Sami 5391:Bold 5370:logi 5294:sat 5274:hat 5271:hot 5221:nĂ©gy 5147:egy 5143:akva 5135:okta 5131:ĂŒks 5021:nap 5018:lun 5012:csi 4998:kĂŒv 4979:orr 4976:nĂŒr 4963:nose 4959:fog 4953:pej 4950:pej 4931:igy 4901:knee 4817:wife 4733:lake 4724:vör 4685:tĂ»z 4679:tol 4676:tol 4669:fire 4665:lĂĄb 4662:kok 4598:mam 4592:ava 4569:isĂ€ 4553:Komi 4523:Komi 4490:bold 4480:and 4478:Komi 4438:Bold 4429:fog 4423:piƄ 4420:pĂŒj 4413:pii 4405:tuu 4402:tƱz 4394:tul 4356:isa 4353:isĂ€ 4333:jol 4321:leg 4316:sew 4310:sem 4307:ƛin 4288:eye 4280:kĂ©z 4243:hal 4240:kul 4234:kol 4172:jan 4169:sən 4166:ƥön 4143:jöl 4140:syl 4123:lap 4118:sēw 4112:səm 4105:ĆĄĂŒm- 4014:and 3788:and 3741:and 3476:and 3298:and 3255:ISBN 3248:ISBN 3241:ISBN 3230:ISBN 3216:ISBN 2837:. -- 2773:NPOV 2740:and 2552:much 2434:and 2320:mark 2070:The 1996:but 1984:and 1896:vein 1892:does 1825:tej 1805:orr 1796:fog 1730:god 1713:tie 1710:way 1699:sea 1665:tĂ»z 1656:lĂĄb 1650:leg 1544:suur 1542:vs. 1415:mein 1355:mein 1297:mein 1220:mein 1192:atın 1174:atım 1132:tiĂ©d 1003:. -- 995:and 779:lÀÀn 772:evĂ€t 765:ette 758:emme 720:is: 244:dēns 224:tame 191:erku 179:erku 5383:tĂ­z 5378:lov 5360:10 5298:hĂ©t 5015:si 5005:day 4895:fƱ 4837:lie 4824:ni 4775:man 4753:sea 4749:tĂł 4746:tĂŒ 4682:bi 4649:leg 4643:Ă©g 4627:sky 4468:in 4369:apa 4341:lĂĄb 4276:köt 4197:min 4190:men 4185:go 4179:tēn 4146:öl 4136:ơəl 3867:or 3511:dab 3484:by 3437:dab 3417:dab 3373:. 3319:dab 3311:his 3278:dab 3155:dab 3105:dab 3063:dab 3011:: 2939:dab 2858:dab 2828:not 2685:dab 2625:dab 2557:dab 2503:dab 2480:dab 2440:dab 2416:dab 2362:PDF 2282:dab 2257:dab 1978:isĂ€ 1974:isa 1966:Vuo 1898:to 1839:dab 1716:Ășt 1696:tĂł 1553:dab 1540:iso 1532:iso 1521:-lö 1508:Vuo 1427:. 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Index

Talk:Finno-Ugric languages
archive
current talk page
Archive 1
Archive 2
troll
Pasquale
crank
troll
Dbenbenn
Pasquale
Antifinnugor
Antifinnugor
dab

Knowledge (XXG):Neutral Point of View
Indo-European languages
Armenian
Proto-Indo-European
online version
Indo-European languages
Pasquale
Mk270
Hungarian
Pasquale
Pasquale
Antifinnugor
Pasquale
Indo-European
cognates

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