Talk:Flag of the United States/Archive 5

791: 3607: 3573: 2447: 2417: 3843: 3815: 3787: 3743: 3709: 3669: 3635: 3521: 3493: 3465: 3437: 3403: 3375: 3347: 3313: 3285: 3223: 3195: 3112: 3012: 2916: 1684: 1003: 4654:, are you the IP user who added all the other flags to this discussion? If so, fine. But if not ,this is unhelpful for another user to do. It makes this whole discussion more confusing, and increases the likelihood of a no consensus. For the most part, almost all flag articles follow a "Flag of x" format, and this is probably for the best. (I don't know if there's an official naming convention guideline or not.) The Union Jack is a notable exception, and shouldn't be used as a pattern for all flags. Otherwise The US flag would be at "The Stars and Stripes". - ( 4373: 1767: 3871: 3675: 3601: 3567: 3255: 3145: 3106: 3931: 3681: 3715: 3409: 2312: 3641: 3527: 3533: 3319: 3151: 1810: 1170: 31: 2263:"As Commander-in-Chief, George Washington followed typical European tradition by having a flag designed for himself as leader of the army. In those days, monarchs, generals and other leading officials often had their own personal standards. The flag would have been located anywhere General Washington was present, whether on the battlefield, at headquarters or on the march. It is sometimes referred to as the Washington's Headquarters Flag" 2387: 2522:"Revolutionary Americans adopted various symbols to represent the new republic that they created after the Declaration of Independence," said Dr. R. Scott Stephenson, vice president of collections, exhibitions and programs for the museum. "Washington's Standard includes a blue field with thirteen white stars representing a new constellation, which Congress adopted in 1777 as a component of the now familiar 'Star-Spangled Banner.'" 2431: 2569:"Symbolism of the American Flag The Symbolism of the American Flag is of revolutionary significance. Beginning with 13, the now 50 stars displayed in the canton of the flag represent the current number of states in the union. This number has followed the growth of the united-states since its infancy. Found from a book about the symbolism of the American Flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives we read: 2861:" subsection. The flag used between 1795 and 1818 is the only one to have a number of stripes other than 13, so it strikes me as needlessly taking up space to have a "Number of stripes" column in the table. It would make more sense, in my opinion, to remove the column and instead add something to the "States represented by new stars" column saying that the 1795-1818 flag was the only one to have 15 stripes. 3539: 3903: 4310: 4013: 2716: 2634: 1720: 1631: 955: 659: 546: 448: 3024: 1255:

think "flag burning" is preferable to the word "desecration", and whether it is a "public outrage" is certainly something that people disagree with. Regardless of anybody's opinion of the practice, flag-burning is an important part of the culture and mystique of the flag in the US. If nothing else, the many supreme court cases and proposed constitutional amendments should be referenced.

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I've also found a couple of seemingly reliable book sources, and a citation from the library at Washington's Mount Vernon, that state that this is widely repeated but quite likely false. I do think it warrants some discussion here, because it is pretty widely believed or at least claimed -- at least widely enough that several sources felt the need to look into it and debunk it. --

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out of in those days, not sure how common cotton would have been in 1770 and synthetics were definitely still a thing of the distant future by then...). I think the note should be changed to remove the confusing "hemp" that sounds as if somebody wanted to allege to marihuana, which would not be true at all, linen does not make you high.

2804:, Secretary of the Continental Congress, discussing the proposed U.S. Seal, gave symbolic meanings for the colors in the seal, drawn from heraldry with white signifying purity and innocence; red, hardiness and valor; and blue signifying vigilance, perseverance and justice. Over time, that explanation came to be associated with the flag. 497: 314:, July 27 National Korean War Armistice Day is listed as one of six half-staff dates by Federal statute. However, at the very end of this section it is stated that it has been a date of full-staff observance since 2009. Therefore I recommend deleting the initial listing of July 27 as a half-staff date to avoid confusion. 2809:

Over the years, other interpretations have included that red is for the blood of patriots, spilled in the fight to protect the country. In 1986, president Ronald Reagan gave his own interpretation, saying, "The colors of our flag signify the qualities of the human spirit we Americans cherish. Red for

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I propose adding this small addition to the bottom of the Colors section. I have an Excel spreadsheet with all of the calculations. I envision providing a link for readers to download this spreadsheet if they want to see the calculations. If it's more appropriate to provide a PDF document or other

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The section of this article that says "The first American flags were made out of hemp." needs to be changed. The citation reference is to a news article from 2014 that states the same thing, but provides no teference to where said information came from nor any way to back up staid information. Either

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The paragraph about the First Flag / Grand Union Flag ends with the notice that the first american flags were made out of hemp. But isn't that always called *linen* if you talk about cloth made from hemp fibres? And linen, besides wool and silk should be one of the most common cloths to make clothing

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The appellation "Stars and Stripes", though long-established,is incorrect heraldry. The flag's field is "barry", i.e. consists of bars, not stripes. And the charge is not of stars,(estoilles, which have wavy sides), but of mullets. A mullet is NOT a star, but an unpierced spur rowel, worn with armour

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Mousing from the screen into a file, I have noted the existence of files named WagonwheelStar.svg or something like. I do not know if these filenames correspond to almost-official nicknames or are simply tools of the article's authors (I am italian, as should be clear from the poor form of the above

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Betsy Ross US FlagOriginally, the colors red, white and blue had neither specific meaning nor representation when the flag was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal of the United States did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to

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But it gives a better background/explanation of the symbolism behind the flag, which I was bummed wasn't found on this page currently. I am not clear how best to source or copy , and I'm not great at editing wiki's anymore, so I leave it to the power users to decide and hopefully implement. Thanks!

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Has there ever been a section in this article about flag burning (in protest, not the "dignified" kind)? IMHO it deserves much more than the single sentence: "Desecration of the flag is considered a public outrage, but remains protected as freedom of speech." This sentence seems a bit POV anyway- I

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Hello everyone. The current image of the subdued flag is mirrored/reversed from the way it is worn. The flag is worn with stars on the right side. This is to demonstrate how a flag would be waving as a soldier moves forward, and is symbolic of the idea that "These colors don't run." If it were worn

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was replaced by the Flag of Great Britain for most purposes at sea... The 1668-1801 dating comes from the opinion that the St. George Cross was maintained in the canton for the whole period, while the 1707–1801 dating comes from the opinion that the canton was changed to the union flag (i.e. St.

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of this claim, oddly under the heading "Designer of the first stars and stripes," but not much elaboration. I've moved the topic to be under the "First flag" heading, which discusses the Grand Union Flag design and another possible inspiration for the stripes (the flag of the East India Company).

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isn't "Flag of X" or "X flag", but instead it's referred to by the name "Union Jack" the VAST MAJORITY of the time. (It's different than people calling the flag of India "the Indian flag".) This move would have problematic consequences and would open up a gigantic can-of-worms (...where would it

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Hi, sorry for lateness in replying - I've only just noticed this. It's an interesting proposal - and I happen to agree with you. However, I don't advocate change, because it seems that nobody else agrees with me/us. I was all up for changing "desecration" to "flag burning", but having looked

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I have noticed that the colors of the American Flag look off. After looking at the American Flag page on usa.gov and a website on repoducing colors from real life on computers, I have come to the conclusion that the colors on the Knowledge page are incorrect. I feel that the American Flag ,as

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Lo Ximiendo -- The "Civil Flag" theory is based on a misunderstanding of a description of a U.S. customs / coast-guard flag by 19th-century writer Nathaniel Hawthorne. We have an SVG of the supposed "Civil Flag" on Wikimedia Commons, but it wouldn't be appropriate to add it to this article...

420:, and I agree. The inclusion criterion is completely subjective, and it seems quite far-fetched to claim that many (or even most) of the currently-included flags are similar to the US flag. I suggest removing this section completely, and possibly replacing it with a section on flags for which 2583:"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice." 1259:

I think at least a paragraph could do it justice, with a photo. We have over a dozen photos of the flag presented in its usual "respectful" way, so I don't think one photo of "desecration" constitutes undue weight. (Sorry if this is a perennial proposal- it seems like an obvious idea to me)

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There is no mention of the influence of the Washington family (ancestors of George Washington) flag which is red stripes on a white background with red stars. There are quite a few articles linking this to the design of the US flag. It would be great to have this considered, thanks.

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This section is strange. The US flag was near identical to the East India Company flag. Chinese and Japanese would have been "very" familiar with the East India Company flag for over 100 years. Why they would have been attracted to this flag I find odd, and doubt the authenticity.

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more citations are needed to state this as a factual statement, or the sentence should be changed to include all possible materials the first flags may have been from as well as it stating "It is possible...." so the sentence isn't being presented as a reliable, provable fact.

2276:) is in the possession of the American Revolution Center in Philadelphia. It was donated to the Center's predecessor, the Valley Forge Historical Society, in the early 20th century, by Francis B. Lovell, a descendant of George Washington's sister, Betty Washington Lewis. 289:

The East India Company flag didn't have stars, which, as I understand the mention, stars are what they were referring to as flowers perhaps in combination with the stripes. Apparently, they didn't think the Union Jack on the East India Company flag was beautiful. -

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No disagreement on that BilCat. I’ve just seen something like that (which you and I both appear to agree shouldn’t be contentious) become contentious because of different readings of the word. Regardless, I don’t think it will be necessary based on how this is going.

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The ratio of the colors is as follows: Red = 41.5385% White = 39.7255% Blue = 18.7361% These calculations were done using the specifications referenced above along with the appropriate trigonometric formulas. The attached spreadsheet shows the calculations.

2406:) design in the stylized six-pointed stars he chose for his personal flag, that in number of 13 are aligned resemblant both a starry sky (new constellation..) and to the link with the 3 cross of the "mother" uk flag. Is not to forget that as he was also 4412:

The flag was not painted on the first two US manned spacecraft (suborbital flights of Shepard and Grissom), contrary to this article. It was first painted on Glenn’s capsule. The text would be correct if it said “designed for orbital manned flight.”

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The Symbolism of the Flag's ColorsAlternating in red and white, the 13 stripes also represent the 13 original colonies that joined together to declare their independence from Britain in order to establish themselves as a sovereign nation.

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stop? what about territories and states? what about places with less-common demonyms, or controversial ones?). If we move this, we'll be inundated with unhelpful move requests that will only make flag pages harder to find.

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It explains exactly what you say above - that the flag is reversed when worn on the right. If the flag were worn on the left, it would be fine advancing into battle. The linked section also clarifies that the flag is not

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You are suggesting this to clarify that it is not the Star of David. The Star of David is typically depicted as two overlapping triangles, not a filled in star, and would have been anachronistic in the 18th century in any

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important and iconic as it is, should be as close to perfect as possible. Especially since Knowledge is an encyclopedia. According to the professionals in color reproduction and printing the colors should be as follows.

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We've discussed this question here and on other U.S. flag related articles. While we have any number of questionable sources alluding to a similarity or guessing at a connection, I haven't seen anyone bringing up a

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Please change the section "particular days on which the flag should be displayed" to match the source (note 96) -- in particular, add Easter and Christmas; or add another source that does not include these days.

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says that the proportions were standardized in 1912; I feel that this year may be extracted from the section Design, but I would like to find it stated just before the comment on the standardization of colors in

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NOTE: The above linked logo is inspired to the original George Washington flag showed in the Museum, which has 13 six-pointed stylized stars very similar to the Unicode Character 'SIX POINTED BLACK STAR'

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not the Flag of Australia. Being consistent on Knowledge isnt a valid reason to denigrate the Australian National Flag by referring to by a name that is neither Official or informally accepted usages.

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I too would like to see something canonical on this subject of the flag. I was looking for a description of the symbolism behind the parts and design of the flag, and was disappointed to not find it.

2329:(every stars is some degrees turned - not 90° painted); a lot of this original flag reproduction use the "marian/northern/german" stylized stars but not turned, instead the original "strange" stars. 4420: 4342: 692: 4958:

Until well into the 19th century, there was no detailed flag specification except internal U.S. Navy documents regulating flags to be purchased by the Navy (the first such document in 1818)...

2137: 4169: 2204:"Marian", in this context, seems to refer to Roman Catholic veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus. I am unaware of any indication Roman Catholic symbolism was used in any flag discussed here. 4435:

Good suggestion. It's not necessarily about orbital flight, since spacecraft from Blue Origin also have the flag. It's just spacecraft starting from Friendship 7, so I added that. Thanks!

2750:"The colors of the flag are symbolic as well; red symbolizes hardiness and valor, white symbolizes purity and innocence, and blue represents vigilance, perseverance and justice." (from 4765:

This doesn’t seem to be necessary to me and breaks the format that WP has used on flag names with no issues for a long time. If such a change is made, I would prefer the more specific

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Please edit the Particular days for display Paragraph September: First Monday (Labor Day), 17 (Constitution Day), and last Sunday (Gold Star Mother's Day) Add 9/11(NYC terror attacks)

2293: 2446: 2198: 4773:. American, broadly speaking can mean the people of the U.S. or of the American continent(s), so United States would be the most specific (and least contentious) in this case. 4790:

already redirects here, as this article is the primary topic for that title,.and rightly so. I.was leaning towards support until the discussion scope was suddenly expanded. -

2572:"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun." 2469:

flag "blue with 13 six-pointed stylized stars (Anglican rose/Marian star)", just with stars changed in number (as the states grown) and from six-pointed to five-pointed.

2021: 1526: 696: 4627:" as the article title rather than the more formal "Flag of the United Kingdom" or more accurate "Union Flag", so too should we list this article at its common name. 4623:. This flag is commonly known as the "American Flag". Very rarely will someone actually refer to it formally as the "Flag of the United States". And just as we use " 1321:

desecration being inserted, and slight expanding of the text. I might get round to it in the next day or so - but feel free to pre-empt me if you want, of course.

2871:" subsection, and instead add some text to the 1795-1818 flag explaining that this was the only version to have 15 stripes. This is how I want the table to look: 1568: 1564: 1550: 1111: 1107: 1093: 892: 888: 874: 217: 213: 199: 382:

Obviously something needs to change because we now have two articles which directly contradict one another. I have started a New Section on the Talk Page of the

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That was a mess. I added Mothers Day, Fathers Day, Christmas, and Easter. Also removed the random trivia about Robert E. Lee and Washington's actual birthday.

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because in normal Australian english it is referred to as the Australian flag or more formally in Australian legislation as the Australian National Flag

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Thanks. I didn't think it was you, but I didn't want to assume either way. I'm not sure if it's a newbie mistake, incompetence, or gaming the system.

4943:. Was the US flag then 1 2/3:1? For those <=48-star versions for which there was an official aspect ratio, could that ratio be listed? Thank you. 2668:(Rasmussen, Frederick N. (July 3, 2010). "A half-century ago, new 50-star American flag debuted in Baltimore". The Baltimore Sun.) is a broken link. 2101: 2097: 2093: 89: 84: 72: 67: 59: 424:

exist showing that the flags were based on the American flag (some of the current flags have legitimate, albeit mostly unsourced, claims of this).

1536: 4941:--and became known as the Flag of Zion. It was accepted as the official Zionist flag at the Second Zionist Congress held in Switzerland in 1898" 790: 177: 1774: 4341:

The description asserts that the stars on the flag are arranged in rows of six alternating with rows of five, when I fact it is rows of four.

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We probably should have something in about the commonly repeated claim of the colors symbolism. That statement is a bit too "just so", though.

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is a redirect to Flag desecration anyway. A quick Google search also brings back multiple results to show that it generates "public outrage":

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From what little I have seen, there is nothing particularly uncommon in the colors and designs that would make the similarlity surprising.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20091031094701/http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Presidential-Proclamation-Fire-Prevention-Week

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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is good idea to be made, where to expose all about that flag, but at least a .svg picture of this Washington's flag is required.

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Elements about flag origin as mix between Grand Union Flag and personal Washington flag "blue with 13 six-pointed stylized stars"

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Burning the Flag: The Great 1989-1990 American Flag Desecration Controversy by Robert Justin Goldstein (courtesy of Google books)

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a

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It's a flag, not a coat of arms. Terms like "stripe" and "star" are normal in vexillology, but indeed not in heraldic blazons.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view=image%3Bsize%3D100%3Bid%3Dmdp.39015073075999%3Bpage%3Droot%3Bseq%3D224%3Bnum%3D212

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I'm tempted to close out the extra additions, and let the original continue to run. I may ask an admin to look at this.

2461:...looking how was the "usa" flag before and what was after, its so easy to see the actual USA flag as a cross between 2283: 3842: 3814: 3786: 3742: 3708: 3668: 3634: 3520: 3492: 3464: 3436: 3402: 3374: 3346: 3312: 3284: 3222: 3194: 3111: 3011: 2915: 2603: 390:) article and that is where you should go if you wish to be involved in trying to gain a consensus around this issue. 1502: 1996:

Hi, Flag of the British East India Company on this article is mentioned as from 1707–1801 whereas under the article

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courage and readiness to sacrifice; white for pure intentions and high ideals; and blue for vigilance and justice."

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The flag display is the war flag of the USA shouldn't you be showing the civil Flag of a nation? Just a thought

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the same flag is mentioned as the flag between 1668 and 1801. Why this huge variation in age of usage? Thanks. --

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

4746:- No proof has been submitted to show that any of these alternatives are the most common name for each flag. - 4440: 4361: 4271: 4067: 3966: 2843: 2252: 1755: 1033: 2551: 2410:, he knew to look at all the things even in the symbolism way: is improbable that all this were random facts. 1537:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130217183234/http://www.mortuary.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-100317-022.pdf

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Originally, the colors were not intended to symbolize anything and were most likely simply borrowed from the

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Nothing in the text suggests any religious symbolism of any kind. I'm not seeing anything to improve here. -

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https://web.archive.org/20090511023846/http://www.vi.ngb.army.mil:80/html/content/Flags/Flag_Presentation.htm

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says that the union of the Grand Union Flag is not the Union Jack, but its predecessor British Union Flag

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100522114622/http://www.mcc.gov/mcc/press/branding/branding-mcc/index.shtml

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