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2584:? I get the desire to avoid short choppy paragraphs, but these were two distinct topics. The first was "There was another horse track here before Fleetwood Park" and the second was "The name 'Fleetwood' has a historical tie to this area". I think preserving the logical division of topics is more important than optimizing the layout.
1337:"A 1870 Thomas Kelly lithograph depicting "well dressed" men and women arriving by carriage is in the collection of the National Museum of American History." suggest moving this to the caption of the lithograph or omitting entirely - it's not really very connected to the racetrack and lithographs are not that rare in museum collections.
2022:
publication". I've generally gone by the rule that if the location is obvious from the title ("The New York Times", "The Boston Herald"), you don't need an explicit location. If it's not ("The
Journal", "The Trib"), then adding the name of the city makes sense as a separate place of location field. Which I've done here.
1439:
I've put the article on hold for seven days to allow folks to address the issues I've brought up. Feel free to contact me on my talk page, or here with any concerns, and let me know one of those places when the issues have been addressed. If I may suggest that you strike out, check mark, or otherwise
2734:
Yeah, "would-be buyers of the land dangling increasingly-high sale prices in front of the owners" is what I would go with, lacking any reason to assume anything else. The Clay Avenue
Historic District document from the NYC LPC does say (middle of page 4): "The city had tried to open streets through
1279:
I'm not sure what to do with this. I agree that this last sentence is a little awkward, but I don't think it needs to be explicit that it's the Grand
Circuit; that's mentioned in the immediately preceding sentence, so saying "grand" again would feel repetitive. I'm certainly open to suggestions on
2719:
Yes, the pressure could be through the government (for example, denying the renewal of permits or raising taxes), socio-political yammering, or simply would-be buyers of the land dangling increasingly-high sale prices in front of the owners. Do you have any idea if there was a moralistic flavor to
2228:
My process for finding sources included searches in Google, DuckDuckGo, The New York Public
Library, Internet Archive, and the Library of Congress. In addition, the Criminal Court Facility Archaeological Assessment has a surprisingly useful bibliography which I used as a jumping-off point. I also
1952:
For each of these three, there isn't a rule one way or the other; what we're looking to achieve is overall consistency. For example, footnote 1 abbreviates the state name and footnote 53 spells it out - either of these approaches would be perfectly fine, just not both at once, so pick what you like
1795:
Hmmm. In my experience, dues is the amount the club sets at the beginning of the year based on a projected budget, and an assessment is a extra payment imposed during the year, required to make up for some unexpected shortfall. That's consistent with the source's "Treasurer ... happy if he could
2705:
Thank you for you question about what kind of pressure. The source says, "As development pressures increased in
Morrisania in the late nineteenth century, spurred on by the opening of transit lines connecting this area to Manhattan, the track closed, streets were graded and paved, and the Morris
2021:
Publisher: 46 is a newspaper called The
Journal. I don't know what it would mean to provide a publisher field for this any more than you would provide a publisher field for The New York Times. They publish themselves. This does, however, touch on the question of "when do you provide a place of
1773:
The first one seems obvious to me. Clubs have members who pay money to the club to support the club's activities. One of the mechanisms clubs use is assessments. This is common parlance as far as I know, so I'm not sure what further explanation it needs. I've quoted "special day" to indicate
1302:
My understanding is that the "Fleetwood Park Club" was a private club owned by Bonner, located next to the racetrack. He did not own the racetrack, but was a member (and at one time the president) of the
Driving Club. I'll try to clarify this, but none of the sources I've found are explicit on
1639:
thank you for the excellent suggestions. I've worked through your list and addressed most of the items. If it's OK with you, I'd prefer to leave the
Timeline and New York Driving Club sections in their current locations. I think the section about the club tells the most interesting story, so
739:
Article meets eligibility criteria for newness and length. Hook is cited and interesting. However, the link that is in the article (currently ref #10) is throwing a Http 403 forbidden error. Should be fixed. Earwig's
Copyvio detector does not show any issues with Copyvio. QPQ done. Passing this
1849:
As with the rest of the Harlem Line, the merger of New York
Central with Pennsylvania Railroad in 1968 transformed it into a Penn Central station, whose service was gradually merged with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, and officially became part of Metro-North in
1259:
There are a lot of short paragraphs - which gives a very choppy feel to the article. Can we combine some of them? Like the second and third paragraphs of The Club could be combined easily, I'd think, as an example. Likewise the second and third paragraphs of Physical
2617:
Above the Speedway, American Mutoscope and Biograph Co., Frederick S. Armitage (cinematographer), 1900 B&W (silent film). "An interesting view, showing members of the New York Driving Club, and well-known horses warming up on New York's famous drive."
2643:
I don't understand how this sentence relates to the rest of the article, but especially the preceding paragraph which is about the streets of the Bronx. Should "ledger" be capitalized, as it is earlier in the article, or is this just an unrelated thought?
2735:
Fleetwood Park in the mid-1880s, but, according to Philip A. Pines, "the men of influence rose as one and their favorite haunting ground was spared." The original source for that is Pines, Philip A. (1970). The Complete Book of Harness Racing, page 166.
1656:
I didn't get what you meant by "scaling up the images" in your original comments; I thought you meant doing some image manipulation in photoshop. I've done some more reading, and I now realize you were probably talking about the mechanism described at
2520:
I do use WPL when I'm looking for something specific. Not sure how it would be useful for this in general. Oh, I forgot to mention newspapers.com, which I do access through WPL; there's a couple of cites in this article I found through that.
1363:"The alternative locations in New York were Inwood, Oak Point-Barretto Point, Port Morris, Cedar Park, and Morningside Park-Riverside Park-Bloomingdale Asylum." doesn't add anything to the knowledge of the racetrack, suggest cutting this.
1536:
Also check that prose is consistent - for example you have "167th street" but also "167th Street", or "Maud S." but also "Maude S.", or "racecourse" but also "race course", or "The Driving Club of New York" but also "New York Driving
1894:
The sources vary on that, as well as on whether it's the "Driving Club of New York". At this point, I think I've got everything consistent with "the New York Driving Club", except when it's at the beginning of a sentence so it gets
1764:
The list here is all the horses that appeared in the Harness Racing Hall of Fame who I could find a source saying they competed at Fleetwood. Abdallah and Nelson just didn't have anything much exciting to say about them. I dropped
1742:
Change the second to "Maud S. was renowned for the high price Bonner paid for her" or similar? If there's something in the source about how this price compares to other contemporary horses, that detail could be added to the latter.
1616:
Also, not a direct change to make but something to think about: are you confident that you've completed a "thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature", and for each source included would you be able to articulate
1586:
Ensure the article is as accessible as possible for non-local/non-expert readers. For example, include conversions for the mileages to other tracks, wikilink nitroglycerin, and explain what "illumination" means in the context of a
755:
Weird, I have no idea what happened there, but I'm getting the 403 now too. Technically, it shouldn't affect the review since sources aren't required to be on line, but,I had a saved PDF and I've just uploaded to archive.org. --
1542:
MOS compliance is generally enforced more strongly at FAC compared to GAN. For example, headings shouldn't start with "The", numbers under 10 are usually spelled out, and full dates should be followed by commas (unless otherwise
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35:
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In one place, I'm talking about Robert Bonner. In the other place, I'm talking about what made the horse special. I admit this is a bit awkward, but I'm not sure how to improve it. Suggestions would be appreciated.
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Source: In 1896, the New York Driving Club was sued by Charles Schreiber, who leased some land adjacent to the race course for gardening. Schreiber claimed that runoff water from the track was damaging his
1548:
The prose could use editing for concision in places - for example, "One of the few remaining vestiges of the track's former existence" could be rephrased as "one of the few remaining vestiges of the track"
2663:
Thanks for spotting that. Another editor added it, as happens a lot since this is the Featured Article Anybody Can Edit :-) I've removed it since it wasn't useful (but you could have done that too).
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2425:"The story of the Bronx from the purchase made by the Dutch from the Indians in 1639 to the present day : Jenkins, Stephen, 1857-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive"
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1576:"Also named after the president was the Grant Hotel, across what is now College Avenue from Robert Bonner's house, where jockeys often stayed" - this is hard to parse, possible to rephrase?
1407:
The last two paragraphs are pure trivia and should be deleted. Neither the death of a local resident nor a small lawsuit over purely local concerns is really noteworthy and should just go.
2767:. I'm not 100% sure if it's even worth mentioning in this article, though, but this might indicate that soil from the racetrack might have been transported to other places in the city. –
833:
2325:"History in asphalt : the origin of Bronx street and place names, Borough of the Bronx, New York City : McNamara, John, 1913- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive"
1840:
From looking at the linked article it seems Metro-North Fleetwood station was built later by a different company - this might be worth clarifying here, or the mention of it omitted.
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I dropped the whole mention of the Metro North station. I thought it would be useful to give readers a point of reference, but if it's confusing, better to just leave it out.
1714:
similarly says, "Date Created/Published: New York : Published by Currier & Ives, c1869.". Does that answer your question, or is there something deeper you're looking for?
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mark the items I've detailed, that will make it possible for me to see what's been addressed, and you can keep track of what's been done and what still needs to be worked on.
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family heirs sold land to developers. I guess the simple answer to your question would be "economic pressure", but I'm not sure if that fully addresses your concern.
2375:"History of Westchester County, New York, from its earliest settlement to the year 1900 : Shonnard, Frederic : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive"
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I've really never heard of this meaning of "assessments"; possibly it's a dialect/regional meaning? Is "dues" an equivalent term? That might be more familiar if so.
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This got resolved by rearranging things; at the point where I now say "Members of the club", there's only one club that's been mentioned, so it's unambigious.
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Sounds good. Not sure if SN's still working; other than that, Johnbod's also made a comment at WT:FAC that would be worth considering before launching.
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I like looking through the databases at WP:LIBRARY: you never know what random newspaper article or academic journal entry has information on a topic.
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leave his financial statement painfully balanced by an assessment on the members". I've added the word "emergency", which I think conveys the intent.
1291:"had his stables and Fleetwood Park Club nearby" did Bonner own the racetrack or is this "Fleetwood Park Club" something different than the racetrack?
2225:, yes, there are some books about Bronx history which touch on the topic, but it's mostly brief coverage. I've cited several of them in the article
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New Jersey. I'm not seeing which other references have similar problems, but if you could point out specific cases, I'll be happy to fix them.
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Johnbod's comment was the last piece outstanding; if you're satisfied you've done what you can there, then yes, I think you should go ahead.
2007:
As above, none of these approaches are incorrect, but they are inconsistent (unless there is specific reasoning underlying these choices?).
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The section begins with "The first year of profitable operations ...", which indicates that we're talking about total amounts for the year.
2275:"The Bronx and its people; a history, 1609-1927 : Wells, James Lee, 1843-1928 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive"
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Metro-North is the successor company after a series of corporate mergers. So, it's really the same company. This is all described at
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an awful lot of the refs are contemporary press press reports. Aren't there any books covering the period that have stuff on it?
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Is it possible to either identify a more descriptive section title than "Miscellaneous", or otherwise reorganize the article?
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Check throughout for grammar errors and typos, eg "theHarlem" or "Another horse and his keeper were injured, Total damages"
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it's what the source says. The source doesn't give any explanation of what it is, so I think that's about all I can do.
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1551:"Members of the club included William K. Vanderbilt (William H's son)" - at this point you haven't introduced William H
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1640:
putting it at the top seems to make more sense. I've added ALTs to the images, but left them the same size for now.
278:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
463:
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2208:, didn't realise your refs were already having their teeth examined :) couple of points on broad structure. Lea
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says, "New York : Published by Currier & Ives, c1872" so the answer there is New York. For the other one,
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In what cases would you want to include publication locations, and how would you prefer these be formatted?
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Working through the article - feel free to revert anything that doesn't make sense but some more questions:
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2640:"This New York ledger was a weekly story published in Manhattan established in 1855 by Robert E Bonner."
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nomination back to the nominator to fix the issue ref #10 in the article before finalizing this one.
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thanks Roy, I just wasn't sure if I was missing some context otherwise I'd have fixed it posthaste
1514:, not just creation, before 1928 - ensure the image descriptions include this. Also suggest adding
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Suggest adding that to the image description. What about Going_To_The_Trot_by_Thomas_Kelly.webp?
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Again, I'll do it however it's supposed to be done. If I've done it wrong, please let me know.
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Those changes look good, I can deal with the "circuit" issue staying as is. Passing this now!
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The Construction accidents section is confusing me. Have you repeated the same event twice?
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I copyedited some, please make sure I didn't inadvertently change meaning while doing so.
2759:, you may be interested to know that some of the loam from the racetrack was apparently
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Again, I'm not sure where this is going. Is there a specific answer you're looking for?
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Suggest either giving a year for the station being built, or omitting the station name.
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Citations should be formatted consistently throughout. For example, sometimes you have
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Thanks for the review. Every one of your suggestions was spot-on and appreciated. --
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You've currently got the sale of Maud S. in two different sections - is that needed?
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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Heh. I did some more digging through WPL and found an article in (of all places)
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I'm not sure where things stand. Should I go ahead and nominate the article now?
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1314:"Members of the club" which club - the Driving Club or the Fleetwood Park Club?
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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Is anything known about operations? For example, was there an admittance fee?
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I've also added an ALT1, which I think is a bit better than the original. --
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OK, I think I've addressed all of your items. Please take another look. --
2002:
Footnotes 7, 16 include both location and publisher; footnote 56 has neither
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887:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
1992:
Footnotes 2, 3, 8, 11, 18, 33, 34, 37, 38, 42, 43, 46, 51, 67, 72 include
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2138:
OK, I'll do that. Thank you again for all your assistance and advice.
1935:
Same comment; I'll do it however the FA criteria say it should be done.
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I randomly googled three phrases and only turned up Knowledge mirrors.
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1902:
When was the ordinance first instituted with the Fleetwood exception?
445:), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page.
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In what cases would you want to include publishers for periodicals?
1770:
What is meant by "assessments of the membership"? "Special day"?
2171:
Yes, that was a mistake. I've merged them into a single source.
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2300:"Catalog Record: History of Bronx borough, city of New York"
1706:
I'm not sure where this is going. For the first image, the
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Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
1996:; footnotes 1, 6, 9, 17, 32, 39, 40, 47, 53, 54, 55 do not.
1912:
Manure brought in $ 10 total or $ 10 per some volume sold?
1303:
this. I suspect it was obvious to contemporaneous readers.
2820:
Knowledge Did you know articles that are featured articles
2815:
Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
2576:
I'm curious about why you merged the two paragraphs under
1999:
Footnotes 8, 9 include publisher; footnotes 46, 67 do not
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http://s-media.nyc.gov/agencies/lpc/arch_reports/68.pdf
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Suggest combining the second and first paragraphs here.
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Template:Did you know nominations/Cytosis (board game)
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
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363:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
274:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Consider moving the timeline earlier and club later
1531:, and sometimes this is linked and other times not.
687:Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
1761:What was the significance of Abdallah and Nelson?
59:This article appeared on Knowledge's Main Page as
1510:For images to use PD-US-expired, there should be
1188:and other media, where possible and appropriate.
2578:Fleetwood Park Racetrack#Prior to Fleetwood Park
1561:Are any notable horses known to have raced here?
1385:Combine the second and third paragraphs together
1566:What is Fleetwood Park Club? Was it affiliated?
504:was sued for damaging their neighbor's garden?
2168:Are the two Ryder references the same source?
1808:What about just including that quote instead?
1703:Where were those lithographs first published?
520:was sued for damaging their neighbor's garden?
172:was sued for damaging their neighbor's garden?
1712:https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2001700222/
1193:(images are tagged and non-free content have
8:
2250:"The Sun's Guide to New York - Google Books"
1619:what makes it a high-quality reliable source
1571:Missing citations for inflation calculations
1268:"admitted to the circuit" the Grand Circuit?
447:No further edits should be made to this page
43:. Even so, if you can update or improve it,
39:as one of the best articles produced by the
33:; it (or a previous version of it) has been
2551:. Added a new Charter Oak Stakes section.
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2597:Forget about it. I'm sure you're right.
561:Starting review here. Updates to follow.
1942:In what cases would you want to include
788:on the PDF. Both hooks look good to go.
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914:I'll get to this in the next few days.
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2400:"Early Mount Vernon, by Otto Hufeland"
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784:Marking approved. Assuming good faith
587:Article is new enough and long enough
2830:Low-importance New York City articles
2620:https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0000266/
1434:shows no sign of copyright violation.
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2845:Low-importance Horse racing articles
2697:Pressure from real-estate developers
2350:"Valentine's manual of old New York"
357:This article is within the scope of
268:This article is within the scope of
2231:the Bronx County Historical Society
1887:Is it the New York Driving Club or
288:Knowledge:WikiProject New York City
211:It is of interest to the following
166:Did you know ... that in 1896, the
2835:WikiProject New York City articles
2034:OK, I've taken care of all those.
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377:Knowledge:WikiProject Horse racing
291:Template:WikiProject New York City
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885:Talk:Fleetwood Park Racetrack/GA1
380:Template:WikiProject Horse racing
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430:Please do not modify this page.
397:This article has been rated as
308:This article has been rated as
2840:FA-Class Horse racing articles
2631:14:42, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
1280:how to make this less awkward.
957:(prose, spelling, and grammar)
1:
468:06:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
371:and see a list of open tasks.
282:and see a list of open tasks.
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2805:Knowledge featured articles
2782:Wow, awesome find, thanks!
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2017:04:37, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1980:04:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1963:03:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1881:03:57, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1865:03:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1830:04:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1818:04:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1804:03:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1787:03:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1753:03:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1727:03:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
1683:23:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
1669:16:47, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
1648:19:05, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1631:05:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1612:02:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
717:
443:Knowledge talk:Did you know
435:this nomination's talk page
164:The text of the entry was:
2866:
1518:and scaling up the images.
403:project's importance scale
314:project's importance scale
116:Featured article candidate
1845:Fleetwood station#History
396:
345:
307:
271:WikiProject New York City
240:
219:
179:
71:
67:
1971:I've fixed the NJ -: -->
514:: ... that in 1896, the
360:WikiProject Horse racing
143:appeared on Knowledge's
61:Today's featured article
27:Fleetwood Park Racetrack
2765:Andrew Carnegie Mansion
2751:Loam from the racetrack
2582:Special:Diff/1172034534
2549:The Catholic Transcript
1891:New York Driving Club?
1497:18:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
1485:18:14, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
1470:17:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
1450:15:20, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
1195:non-free use rationales
950:reasonably well written
924:23:31, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
910:23:31, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
439:the article's talk page
420:Did you know nomination
2614:For future reference:
2304:catalog.hathitrust.org
1847:, which is linked to:
943:for what they are not)
294:New York City articles
201:This article is rated
141:fact from this article
1182:It is illustrated by
1134:neutral point of view
1090:broad in its coverage
550:). Self-nominated at
517:New York Driving Club
501:New York Driving Club
383:Horse racing articles
169:New York Driving Club
2761:reused in the garden
658:copyright violations
263:New York City portal
97:Good article nominee
63:on January 14, 2024.
2574:Serial Number 54129
1351:Done both of these.
41:Knowledge community
2610:Above the Speedway
2229:made enquiries at
1529:The New York Times
1166:No edit wars, etc.
1009:factually accurate
666:close paraphrasing
207:content assessment
72:Article milestones
2475:Missing or empty
1213:suitable captions
1024:reference section
875:
874:
728:
727:
716:
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678:
635:Adequate sourcing
619:
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324:
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2569:Paragraph merge?
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2429:Internet Archive
2421:
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2379:Internet Archive
2371:
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2340:
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2329:Internet Archive
2321:
2315:
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2287:
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2279:Internet Archive
2271:
2265:
2264:
2262:
2260:
2246:
1995:
1953:and go with it.
1945:
1505:Pre-FAC comments
1461:
1334:Transportation:
1245:
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1038:reliable sources
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829:Copyvio detector
817:
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460:Theleekycauldron
454:The result was:
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182:Featured article
180:Current status:
134:
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109:October 29, 2023
92:
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31:featured article
23:
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2795:
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2720:the pressures?
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2500:Have you tried
2493:
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2450:s-media.nyc.gov
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1360:Miscellaneous:
1209:appropriate use
1131:It follows the
879:This review is
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1527:and sometimes
1525:New York Times
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1036:(citations to
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399:Low-importance
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369:the discussion
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340:Low‑importance
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2636:Non sequitur?
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1432:Earwig's tool
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1099:major aspects
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705:Interesting:
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2354:columbia.edu
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2221:'s question
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2204:Oops. Sorry
2176:
1905:Added "1897"
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45:please do so
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2217:Addressing
1659:MOS:UPRIGHT
1543:punctuated)
1512:publication
981:word choice
881:transcluded
606:Long enough
542:Created by
90:May 7, 2022
2799:Categories
2769:Epicgenius
2681:Dhickey007
2661:Dhickey007
2646:Dhickey007
2502:WP:LIBRARY
2404:HathiTrust
2254:google.com
2237:References
2178:Nikkimaria
2126:Nikkimaria
2082:Nikkimaria
2068:Nikkimaria
2009:Nikkimaria
1955:Nikkimaria
1857:Nikkimaria
1810:Nikkimaria
1779:Nikkimaria
1745:Nikkimaria
1719:Nikkimaria
1675:Nikkimaria
1654:Nikkimaria
1637:Nikkimaria
1623:Nikkimaria
1604:Nikkimaria
1265:The Club:
1070:plagiarism
1014:verifiable
834:Authorship
820:GA toolbox
662:plagiarism
595:New enough
155:column on
36:identified
2458:25 August
2434:25 August
2409:25 August
2384:25 August
2359:25 August
2334:25 August
2309:25 August
2284:25 August
2259:25 August
1673:Correct.
1256:General:
1238:Pass/Fail
893:Reviewer:
857:Templates
848:Reviewing
813:GA Review
145:Main Page
2784:RoySmith
2757:RoySmith
2737:RoySmith
2708:RoySmith
2677:RoySmith
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2625:RoySmith
2586:RoySmith
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2496:RoySmith
2468:cite web
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2192:RoySmith
2140:RoySmith
2086:RoySmith
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1974:RoySmith
1875:RoySmith
1824:RoySmith
1798:RoySmith
1708:LOC page
1663:RoySmith
1642:RoySmith
1516:alt text
1491:RoySmith
1477:Ealdgyth
1464:RoySmith
1458:Ealdgyth
1442:Ealdgyth
916:Ealdgyth
906:contribs
896:Ealdgyth
862:Criteria
808:T:DYK/P2
806:ALT1 to
774:RoySmith
758:RoySmith
724:: Done.
656:Free of
585:General:
544:RoySmith
530:Reviewed
456:promoted
203:FA-class
121:Promoted
2763:of the
2722:Minturn
2703:Minturn
2600:SN54129
2477:|title=
2219:Johnbod
1661:, yes?
1232:Overall
1113:focused
1066:copyvio
985:fiction
731:Overall
646:Neutral
625:Policy:
507:garden.
480:Comment
401:on the
312:on the
147:in the
80:Process
2787:(talk)
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1185:images
1160:stable
1158:It is
1136:policy
1088:It is
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987:, and
977:layout
948:It is
933:review
786:WP:AGF
777:(talk)
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664:, and
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102:Listed
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1587:fair
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1418:Done
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1374:Done
1068:and
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