Talk:Fred Singer/Archive 1

1070:

SEPP received multiple grants from ExxonMobil, including in 1998 and 2000. SEPP itself does not disclose its funding sources." The latter sentence was added by RA in the body of the article and in the footnote. The first sentence, however, mentions publicly available documents. What are these publicly available documents? Whose are they? And where can they be found? If they exist, I couldn't find any data from them on the ExxonSecrets website. If they exist, they need to be explicitly cited, not vaguely asserted. If this can't be done, perhaps mention of them should be removed. If they are actually on the ExxonSecrets site, please point them out to me. If the documents are SEPP's, this would seem to contradict RA's addition. Are they Exxon-Mobil's? If so, this should be stated explicitly and information on how to get them provided. Let's get the whole story so it can be told. Anybody know anything about these documents?

397:

had three of his books published by The Unification Church, headed by the Rev. Moon, proprietor of the Washington Times, which, coincidentally or not, uncovered much of the Whitewater scandal. "You can see where this is going," Koppel commented, "If you like Dr. Singer's views on the environment you mention his most impressive credentials. If you don't, it's Fred Singer and the Rev. Sung Myung Moon and the Unification Church." What is really significant is whose scientific hypotheses have emerged intact from Koppel's acid bath of truth. For example, Singer and Dr. Carl Sagan, a Gore ally, had entirely different predictions about the consequences of oil fires after the Persian Gulf War. "The record shows in this instance Dr. Sagan was wrong and Dr. Singer was right," Koppel said, "Predictions are a hazardous business" - especially when you rely, as Sagan did, exclusively on computer models.

270:

some devious ulterior motive. If the organization's objectivity is not in question to begin with, perhaps you can help me understand why there would be any protest at all to simply stating its founder's name? Anyway, enough of this trifling. Lastly, and I absolutely do not wish to condescend here, as you clearly have made many more edits to wikipedia than I have; but may I humbly suggest that, in future, you give extra thought to making edits truly NPOV. Some of your past edits have left me feeling....shall we say...concerned... about bias rearing its ugly head. IMHO, wikipedia should never be about attempting to influence a reader's views on a subject but instead, only about presenting factual information in the most dispassionate manner possible.--

3405:

collected, that they may be incorrect; that the information regarding the numbers being incorrect was also left out; and that the information regarding why the landing on Phobos was being suggested, instead the information appears directly following the magazine article, though they are 20 years apart, and not based on the same information or reasoning. I filled out both sections, and added that the calculations were wrong, which was later discovered, and which his supported was entirely based on. I also added the full information regarding Phobos and why it was recommended per his own cited paper. I want to thank Raul for providing the article, without it I would not have been able to provide a complete quote. --

2246:

article. If you believe that I have been too selective in that regard then by all means include whatever other elements of his views that you feel are relevant to THIS article in a similarly succinct way and I won't complain. The reader of THIS article and the criticism in question has a right to know that Monbiot holds views which are antagonistic to Singer, as opposed to being a merely impartial observer as the text now implies and therefore is misleading. I suspect that this is why you and others are arguing against the inclusion of text that was developed impartially (presumably) and is found to be acceptable on his BLP.

1102:

ever seen one. So far I have always found that ExxonSecrets fails to provide any specific details. (See the Cato article as an example. ExxonSecrets is cited to support the true claim that Cato receives some corporate funding, but it fails to mention the amount or proportion which, during a significant period, was only 2%.) While I agree that the source of one's founding can corrupt one's scientific practice (be it a corporate, government, or other source), I think more often the funding is given in the first place because of the scientist's pre-existing views or his research proposal are found to be attractive.

696:*sigh* It makes the whole environmental movement look like a bunch of crazed conspiracy theorists when you add things like that. Do you think Singer says what he does so that he can get money from Exxon? Which is the cause and effect here? Yeah, maybe there are some people out there claiming this, but are they the mainstream of environmentalism? I certainly hope not, for the sake of environmentalism. Perhaps you could reword it so that it doesn't sound like all environmentalists think like that, and perhaps you could also find specific attributions for people promoting those other two criticisms as well. 4132:

is true, which I tried to determine in good faith. BTW, "conservative" as a label for a journal is also a POV (even though I agree with it) without sourcing and was part of the revert. The reader of the Singer BLP can click the link and come to their own POV conclusions as to Newsmax. Under what circumstances would you consider POV labeling acceptable (I'm educatable here), as I have been tempted to add some for context, but resisted? Just trying to stay neutral and stick by the intent & rules of Wiki. --

584:

reference it. If you can locate that document, THEN we have a direct example. But if Exxon makes no note of having given money to Singer, Singer says he hasn't received money from Exxon, and no documentation exists that any money changed hands, then it's simply an unfounded allegation. It should perhaps more accurately say, "kwikpower has accused Singer of receiving funding from Exxon in 1998, but no documentation has been found of this transaction, and Singer says he has received no funding from Exxon."

1374:. In this case, we have have a few critical sources, so there's really no problem with integrating them into coverage of Singer's views on global warming, tobacco, etc. I'm not suggesting we rename it to "reception", just that we directly integrate it as I tried to do in my edit. As to Monbiot's quote, I think it's essential to note his caveat in the interest of balance. I removed the quote because it was phrased as "Monbiot went on to admit..." In this context, "admit" is probably a 611:

endowment left by someone, and that someone was probably Robert Wesson. Whether or not ExxonMobile donated $ 135,000 to the same institute where Singer happened to be working at the time is completely irrelevant, and shows no financial contribution from Exxon to Singer. For them to imply that it does show a financial connection is a bit "shady". People need to start debating these issues on the issues, rather than resorting to such disreputable character assassination attempts.

2679:

the surrounding air, the hot air rises, carrying the entrained soot to much higher altitudes. Now, another important point is, you can't cap an oil well fire. Red Adair takes a week, two weeks, for a single petroleum fire, so the natural lifetime of these oil well fires is months to maybe as much as a year, which means that if we have a winter war that involves this burning, the smoke will continue into spring, summer and possibly even fall, the growing season.

3199:." pending a source for this info. Please don't revert "Singer designed the ozone-monitoring instrument for early versions of US weather satellites" - this is what the source says. Inventing stuff is different. Nor does the source provided say that "he founded the School of Environmental and Planetary Sciences", only that he became the first dean (my suspicion is that refs have been retro-fitted to existing text, which is why the claims don't quite match). 4673:

representative). I was torn between asking for a source or just adding the "liberal" or "leftist" type labels to other "obvious" organizations/publications. I decided it was best to keep my labels out of it by choosing Wiki's NPOV "source it" policy. Having perused the history of edits before contributing, I could tell how absolutely POVish those who feel they are the guardians of the AGW hypothesis were on this site--not allowing the addition of even

2666:

by no means a worst case, because we're not paying any attention to stored oil, we're not paying any attention to natural gas, we're ignoring the possibility of oil well fires in Iraq, which exist right now and I would imagine are likely to grow with further allied raids, and we're neglecting the possibility of the extension of the war to oil - producing facilities in Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf emirates and, if the war really takes off, in Iran.

31: 3141:, this is only acceptable if it is a) not contentious, b) is not unduly self-serving, and c) the article is not based primarily on such sources. I'd accept it as a source for hard data (like positions held), but I'd be much more reluctant for things like "MAJOR SCIENTIFIC ACCOMPLISHMENTS" (caps his ;-). After all, the typical purpose of a CV is to make the subject look good, not to convey a neutral image. -- 3093:]. You're claiming it states that "Singer has also been a consultant to the House Select Committee on Space, NASA, GAO, NSF, AEC, NRC, DOD (Strategic Defense Initiative), US DOE Nuclear Waste Panel, the US Treasury, and the state governments of Virginia, Alaska, and Pennsylvania"? Or are you paraphrasing something? If the latter, please quote. And... I don't see an answer to my first q 1088:; the latter includes some comments by Singer. The funding stuff is not that big a deal, and frankly I don't think it's Singer's primary motivation (though I wouldn't put my personal opinion in the article). I'd be satisfied merely with stating there have been questions raised about funding, but since Singer/SEPP doesn't provide any info on his funding we can never know either way. 3600:

just Gates and Bobo have an opinion on this topic, it's essentially unsupported. If Knuth and Sleator have one opinion, and Gates and Bobo another one, we cite Knuth and Sleator. Only if Knuth and Sleator disagree we have to document a conflict in reliable sources. Or, in the concrete case, Gore is usually right because he agrees with reliable sources, not because he is Gore. --

3377:'Astronautics' was renamed the 'Journal of Astronautics' sometime in the 90s - that could be throwing off your search. Regardless, I put in a request to my University's inter-library loan request system yesterday, and when I checked my email this morning, I had a scanned pdf copy of the letter courtesy of Kansas State University's library. I've updated the article. 2228:

article without any further fuss" if you will "let me at least characterize the man's views therein". This seems to be a perfectly reasonable compromise in which you get the larger benefit, IMHO. I am not even trying to twist or misrepresent his views in this case as I took existing text word for word from his BLP which I assume is considered fair and accurate.

1378:, and it certainly seemed to frame the issue pretty suggestively. I was striving for a more neutral presentation (as with changing "claimed" to "wrote" in the same paragraph). We can certainly go back to the quote if you feel my summary is problematic, but just set it up with "Monbiot also wrote..." rather than "Monbiot went on to admit..." That was my issue. 2817:

where we put it but I don't see any reason to water it down to the point where these facts are obscured. I see that Sagan's page no longer mentions the debate aspect of this, a point that I choose to leave alone as my purpose is not to denigrate Sagan, but rather to highlight Singer's successful prediction which is why I prefer to have the description here.

2651:

supercomputers show is that first of all, that there wouldn't be enough smoke, even in the worst case, and secondly, that the smoke would only go to an altitude of about 3,000 feet, which means, according to the National Academy calculations, that the smoke would rain out after about three to five days. So the lifetime of the smoke is quite limited.

1151:

project space." This technically implies that until valid sources for the section on potential conflicts of interest can be found not only should that section be removed, but this discussion of that should should also. Given this I am going to take the bold action of removing that section from the article along with the questionable references. --

2264:

BLP (the point being that it is not something that I made up to be misleading), I simply turn the question around and ask, "why not repeat it if it is accurate and it potentially clarifies Monbiot's motives for leveling the criticism in question? I assume that you will agree that Monbiot is not a neutral observer in this debate, correct? --

2312: 1141:

with Dr. Fred Singer and Dr. Dwight Lee, who have authored articles on junk science and indoor air quality (IAQ) respectively ...', although this communication does not prove that Singer accepted funds from the tobacco industry." Here too, if we cannot provide definitive references I object to this being in the article. --

3392:

of natural satellites do not decay, at least not for long. That certainly doesn't not establish that Singer "believed in Martians", only that he was willing to entertain a hypothesis. It is obvious now that the moons are natural objects, but it was once at least conceivable that they were not; they are unusually small.

3674:

no one called him "corrupt" in those words, however saying his research is suspect because he was employed by an oil company seems to be original research, and a hefty allegation without proof. Who are we to say his funder influenced his research? Who's side was he on when he consulted for IBM? for Lockheed Martin? --

3688:

Then I guess ABC News was wrong for even mentioning his receipt of money from Exxon. They should have known that such information is entirely irrelevant, and therefore should have been left out of the article. Shame on ABC News for even asking the question, much less reporting the answer. Or did I

3628:

We can never determine truth here, that is not our responsibility. What we can do is depend on reliable sources. And neither Gore, Solomon or Greenpeace are such. What we can say, with support from quite a large number of reliable sources, is that Singer is balancing the fringe edge of quite a lot of

3391:

Thank you, "("My conclusion therefore is, and here I back Schklevsky, that if the satellite is indeed spiraling inward as deduced from astronomical observations, then there is little alternative to the hypothesis) makes sense, especially if there were measurements showing a decaying orbit. The orbits

2989:

Additionally, the document just mentions that the fires had an impact for 'days' but does not elaborate and is therefore not a clear or demonstrative counter assertion of the professor's comments. I find this troublesome as students around the country are starting to use Knowledge as a first source

2678:

A set of smoke plumes rises over Kuwait, is carried east by the prevailing westerlies. The smoke is self - lofting. This seems to be something that Dr Singer neglected in his discussion. We now know from the nuclear winter investigation of the problem that black sooty smoke heated by the sun heats

2665:

Okay. What I'm about to describe are some calculations that Richard Turco, who appeared on your piece that began this part of the segment, and I have done. We assume that all the Kuwaiti oil - producing facilities are mined and ask what would happen if they are all simultaneously in flames. This is

2227:

On the issue of compromise, it is generally considered a process if "give and take". In other words I'll give you something if you give me something in return. In this case the details are "I'll stop complaining about the Monbiot reference as being extraneous and biased and agree to leave it in the

2125:

Don't you feel that you are being just a little petty here? I believe that it is relevant information and you are not disputing it as being factually incorrect. It hurts nothing to have it here and the fact that the user can click to learn about Monbiot is irrelevant. I have streamlined things for

1625:

As for this article, this material only indirectly applies to the section in question. What exactly happened in the alleged interview? You'd think those who are describing the interview would at least have a transcript or video. There still is no good source for this section other than some biased

1150:

Having read the Wiki rules on the biographies of living persons, I find "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Knowledge articles, talk pages, user pages, and

534:

I readded that section, but removed one statement and removed one link, but kept the other (quote: "ExxonMobil has become a major funder of the most visible 'greenhouse skeptics', including S. Fred Singer "). And no, it is not important that Singer claims the opposite. The other points are o.k. and

227:

18:14, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)) I don't think the last one is the same SFS though! Not his style. I think we're using the same source. I found the ones you mention above, but, ha ha, they don't count, because they are all comment-type not science type (I think): letters to the editor and the like. I looked

4579:

I've just checked the sourcing on the SEPP's involvement with the NIPCC and thank those who tracked it down. If any clarification is needed later (on this & added NPICC material), I'll reword it appropriately to try to keep it as neutral as possible. I think I've just been through what I'd call

4027:

It's not about "fun" or whether it is true or not, it's about the purpose of the contribution of this piece of trivia to the article. Exxon donated the paltry sum because it supported the research Singer was already doing. It had no bearing on Singer's motivations whatsoever as far as his research

3643:

I have no problem with that classification, however stating his research was manipulated by the source of funding, from one of the 20+ prestigious companies he worked for, is a bit absurd and possibly a BLP violation, calling a scientist a liar or corrupt that is, without extremely reliable sources,

2245:

I am not trying to repeat his entire biography here, which I find to be a bit disingenuous on your part. I am merely providing a succinct summarization of his views for the benefit of the readers of THIS article, at least those portions of his views that I believe are relevant to the reader of THIS

2209:

action in this context. Since the "did" and the "undids" are obviously differing actions they would have the again applied independently from one another. On a related point, if we are talking in terms of "edits" (as opposed to "dids" and "undids") then your usage would have been correct, as in "X

1871:

It may be worth putting a hidden comment along with your reference discussing how it was obtained since an on-line version is not available. Given the amount of push back on this point it is worth providing the extra information along with the citation itself. I am not sure how hidden comments are

1671:

I believe that it is a shame that we should lose this little piece of history, that there seems little doubt actually occurred, but there is no way that I can find using a reasonable effort to authenticate it properly. I guess this means that both the sagan page and the Kuwaiti Oil Fires pages need

1565:

I still believe that there is too much detail and commentary, per WP:WEIGHT. Yes, there should be something said on the matter (especially if Sagan himself acknowledged the error) but the current text is too much. I will try to edit this down somewhat, at least until Monday when you get Sagan's book

1412:

I would be satisfied with a trimmed down section but it keeps getting deleted because the sourcing is difficult. We are talking about an event that occurred more than 15 years ago so on-line sources from that era are sparse. There is no doubt that the event occurred (Singer himself notes it in his

1401:

Similar to the criticism charges, I think the Sagan/Singer debate on Nightline is overstated and poorly sourced. There's no mainstream media coverage that I could find, and it seems to violate WP:WEIGHT to include a large section on this one appearance. I think it should be vastly reduced or removed

1268:

I have reconsidered my position regarding the Newsweek and Monbiot pieces. As long as they are not labeled as being conflict of interest charges I see no need for an independent section for these quotes anymore. I have moved them each into the sections to which they apply (i.e. GW and Tobacco) and

939:

that "Each of these steps is controversial, has not been sufficiently substantiated, and may even be incorrect" when referring to "Exposure to more solar UV radiation leads to a huge increase in skin cancer rates and hundreds of thousands of additional deaths" and expands on this in the section "The

516:

Okay then, I removed the section I mentioned. Three of them are displaced ad hominems, and one of them has two links, one of which provides no support for the statement, and one of which says that Singer claims he has not received oil industry money (and alludes to a document which shows otherwise,

396:

Certainly, there was nothing academic about Gore's attacks on Singer, who has been a professor of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia, deputy assistant administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and chief scientist of UPS Department of Transportation. Singer has also

96:

We're looking here at a man who has had a very succesful carreer lasting more than 50 years. What is the remark about his 1960 (!) article that Phobos might be artificial doing in the introduction of the page? This is hardly a highlight of his carreer. In fact it's so minor it hardly registers. Plus

4516:

Again, it appears you haven't bothered to read what I have previously written--I didn't care about the claim being made, I didn't know one way or the other, so I just followed sources to see if it was the case (I really was interested). Absolutely no "assumption" was made & I made absolutely no

4131:

My "thoughts" on the matter are completely irrelevant--sourcing is the issue, though NIPCC is registered as a nonprofit organization. The onus of sourcing is on the person making the claim. I simply removed the claim until sourcing can be provided. I'm completely comfortable with the claim if it

4095:

I have searched all the links in this section for anything linking SEPP itself, not just Fred Singer, to the actual foundation and organization of the NIPCC. Already cited sources indicate a clear involvement by others. I also searched the entire PDF version of the NIPCC Summary and couldn't find

3673:

Wouldn't anyone publishing a book or paper on the topic, have monetary influence? At what point do we lay a cut off? Also it seems this conflict on interest is again mentioned, is this also true when oil companies give to environmental groups? Is there some underlying mischief? You are correct that

2691:

We think that the net effects will be very similar to the explosion of the Indonesian volcano Tambora in 1815, which resulted in the year 1816 being known as the year without a summer. There were massive agricultural failures in North America and in western Europe, and very serious human suffering

2165:

We don't include information because it is "factually correct". Otherwise our articles would read very boringly indeed (1+1=2; 1+2=3; 2+1=3; 1+1+1=3;...). The purpose of giving Monbiot as the source is to properly attribute the statement, not to repeat his biography. And of ourse, you don't include

610:

is simply a position there, where as being a Fellow typically goes, the person would get paid anyway by the institute, but being a fellow is considered an honor, and is sometimes accompanied by a small payraise. As is traditional for Fellows, the Robert Wesson Fellow was probably established by an

4395:

as the rules require. Discussions of the article don't require sourcing, so I'd appreciate it if we could stick with the sourcing in the article itself. If editors are going to revert my changes for technical issues or because they want to preserve a POV, at least the editing practices should be

4271:

Thanks, I'll check the article as there were two (2) sourcing issues. It's important to note, however, that a present-day copyright says nothing about an organization having done something in the past, and that's the only thing I'm trying to get sourced. Had someone other than Singer copyrighted

4043:

I readded the "unsolicited" which was removed, then moved it out of the section it was in. The source says Singer stated he received the money and that it was unsolicited, Knowledge can not choose to accept half of his statement as true. I removed the statement from where it was because the source

3864:

Subtle sneak attack ;-). But not applicable. Becoming a Knowledge editor does not protect independently notable persons from criticism, not even from strongly worded criticism. Solomon was not offended as a Wikipedian, but as a crappy Journalist who combines lack of fact checking (or worse) with a

3658:

To my knowledge, no one called Singer "a liar or corrupt". But ABC News does report that his peers from NASA, Stanford University and Princeton have characterized his most recent work as "fabricated nonsense". His admission of taking money from big oil, which obviously has very much to gain from

3404:

I have filled out the complete quote, and filled out the Phobos information as well. I find some thing disturbing; the removal of the second half of the quote which states that his support of the concept was based on the numbers provided and that he entertained due to the manner in which they were

2285:

I seem unable to find much information about this University of Miami School of Environmental and Planetary Sciences that Singer says he founded in 1964 and ran until 1967. With three somewhat ambiguous exceptions, everything I found was just a reference to Singer's bio. The first exception is a

2263:

You and William Connolley seem to be arguing, "why repeat it?" My answer is that the current text gives a misleading impression of Monbiot's impartiality in this case which I seek to clarify for the readers of THIS article. Since we are talking about a small piece of text which is already on his

1101:

I don't think his partial source of funding is also the source of his motivation either. I've had environmentalists cite the ExxonSecrets website at me regarding some skeptic or other (Michaels, Cato, for example) as if this does serve by itself to invalidate their views. A logical fallacy if I've

1069:

I am all for telling the whole story. However, I note that the additions by Raymond Arritt introduce an odd inconsistency, perhaps even a contradiction, into the article. "While funds were not directed specifically in his name, publicly available documents show that Singer's non-profit corporation

269:

My mistake about the Unitarian/Unification mixup. I will not re-revert the changes, as an edit war on such a trivial matter would indeed be preposterous. I will say, however, that I respectfully disagree with your assertion that the only reason to mention the founders of the organization must have

3941:

So what? I received 10k from ExxonMobile for a week of consulting work. This statement creates the impression some guy dressed in a trench coat wearing mirror glasses snuck into Singers office by the back door and slipped him an envelope as some kind of pay off. We don't know why he got the 10k.

3599:

In general, an unreliable source does not taint the information provided, it just does not support it. If Don Knuth and Dani Sleator publish a paper on the complexity of balanced binary search trees, that paper does not lose any value just because Bill Gates and Bobo the Clown also support it. If

3362:

I have been unable to find the cited piece. The only "Astronautics" I have been able to located from the 1960's time period, was not published in 1960, but 1963, there is also no page number to further attempt to verify. William can you please provide the full information, correct publisher, page

2943:

Thanks. I tried to purchase a copy and have it e-mailed to me but there was a glitch in the ordering process. Their customer service types said that they got the order and that I should receive an e-mail. Since Mr. Connolley obviously received his e-mail in short order it appears that I am now

2816:

Well I believe that some discussion of the event is in order. We can do that here, on Sagan's page, on the Kuwait Oil Fires page, or anywhere else you might suggest. But the fact remains that the event happened, they each made their predeictions, and the "fallout" is now known. So I don't care

1140:

And on a separate but related point, this is clearly unfounded as the statement itself acknowledges: "Writing for The Guardian, George Monbiot claimed that in 1993 APCO, a public relations firm, sent a memo to Philip Morris to vice-president Ellen Merlo stating: 'As you know, we have been working

629:

In addition, you added, "he is a retired scientist who has produced no new research since the mid-1970s." This is of course, wrong. Do a literature search before putting up statements like that, especially if they have no documentation (and perhaps even if they do, since documentation is pretty

3496:

I could point you to any number of examples. Your own words above are not a shining example (unlike mine, which were an attack on the article rather than a person, yours seem to be an attack on me). Its all context-dependent. Its hard to see G's post as being a good-faith attempt to improve this

3247:

The current statement on melanoma appears to be misleading. From reading the sources, its clear Singer believes that all UV causes certain types of skin cancer, whereas the more dangerous melanoma form is only caused by UV-A, not UV-B. I have moved this text to a next section so that it can be

2719:

I agree but I don't believe that Mr. Connolley is the man for this task. I can take a stab at it but maybe not until tomorrow. I wasn't in love with the original quote that was here, but as far as I can tell given this it was pretty fair and accurate so I might start with something along those

2544:

Two emails and a phone call later to the University of Miami without a response (directed to RMSAS), so no light's been shed on this yet. I'll keep trying, but if anyone has any leads or contacts there, that would be helpful in determining whether there's an accuracy problem in this part of the

2178:

on my watchlist, and I don't know what you discussed there. I also don't think this is a reasonable compromise model ("I won't shoot the population of Cameroon, so let me at least steal your bicycle"). And I'm fine with you improving the text. But this edit didn't - it added both spin and bloat,

4481:

We had been through this before, at the NIPCC articles AfD (article for deletion) review. Where lack of such sources where established, and it was also considered non-controversial that SEPP/Singer was the main source. In such cases as this one - you should insert a {{cn}} tag (which gives), to

2767:

Whatever, if Mr. Connolley wants to start the process fine. What the heck is the problem with giving a reasonable length description of the event with actual quotes? There's no point otherwise. You might as well write "In 1991 Fred Singer and Carl Sagan appeared on Nightline. The end." The

2464:

Proving what, exactly? That the "School" that Singer claims to have founded is just a renaming of pre-existing institutes? I wouldn't go that far even, yet. I still want to see somewhere that U of M gives Singer credit for founding the School and considers him a dean. It might also be worth

1652:

Sigh. I give up. This simply happened too long ago for any references to have survived it seems. While Sagan's book does admit his prediction was wrong but it doesn't mention Singer. I don't believe that there is any credible way to salvage this interesting piece of trivia, and I admit it is

1321:

OK I looked through the WP references. "Strongly deprecated" is a but "strong", I think, but I'll accept it as valid. :-) It is difficult to find any article which is on a controverial topic which does not have some form of a criticism section. Renaming those to "reception" sections is just

1165:

Reference number 26, purporting to show that Singer received funds from oil companies in 1998 and 2000, does not. Rather, it simply states that he received funds 20 years ago. I imagine there may be some truth to the 1998/2000 claim, but this reference does not provide it! Can anyone find an

1114:

These minor amounts of money of such tenous areas is just ad hominem. Does the Hansen site talk about the 250,000 he got from Teresa Kerry's foundation? And what about the huge amounts of government funding, that dwarf private industry funded work? And regardless, Singer is the real deal. A

583:

These are the only two examples give of "financial ties to oil". The first one suffers from a serious problem in that this 1998 ExxonMobil document doesn't seem to exist. I looked for it, and couldn't find it. The only reference to it is on this commentary blog, and other similar blogs which

100:

My second point about this article not being NPOV. The part about the Kuwait oil fires debate. Clearly Singers predictions were somewhat off here. But so were Sagan's predictions. In fact I'd say Sagan, who predicted global disaster, was much further from the truth than Singer, who predicted no

3963:

There is absolutely no evidence that the $ 10,000 sum had any influence whatsoever on Singer's scientific viewpoint (in fact, it would be ludicrous to say so given his long history of research conclusions). He certainly held the same viewpoints both before and after the sum was given (but the

2650:

Yes. We have, I think, quite valid calculations that support this. These are calculations that have been done by the Defense Department and the Department of Energy, by Dr Richard Small at Sierra Research and by Dr Joyce Penne at Livermore National Laboratory. And what these calculations on

4352:

A present-day copyright of material published by one organization for another organization says nothing about who created whom in the past. Organizations merge, associate, and do all other sorts of things that make this claim untenable. As for the dislaimer stuff--you lost me. I think we've

3071:

supports Singer's consultant background on Pg #2 of the document (his attached bio.) I used this reference as you have already unfairly attacked two previous sources of the same information as "unreliable". Since this particular source was *already* being used by the article in support of a

3899:

I'm confused too. As far as I can tell, what has happened is: obviously grossly biased journalist writes very poor blog article about wikipedia. Our correct response is: ignore it, in terms of the articles it discusses; perhaps add it to the list-of-journalism-about wiki, if there is one. We

2788:

quote from Singer, would be sufficient - with no Sagan quote. There's no need to focus on Sagan's incorrect prediction, especially in Singer's article - we've already seen that Sagan's side of the issue was properly dealt with in his article, where a there is a later quote from Sagan himself

4214:

Where is the NIPCC registered as a non-profit organization? Please deliver the source for that. Because that would be a good argument for it being an organization by itself. That SEPP has the (c)opyright for the document is imho enough (unless of course you can show us its a non-prof org).

2011:

Look at the URLs for all of the Transcripts on the ABC News Store. The "Special Reports" one presently will let you see an ABC option and proceed. You need Javascript enabled and further URLs are hidden. Send a message to transcripts.tv telling them what you think of their site design.

750:

have continued through this arbitration, both users are hereby barred from reverting any article related to climate change more than once per 24 hour period. Each and every revert (partial or full) needs to be backed up on the relevant talk page with reliable sources (such as peer reviewed

489:

So how is this "weasel words" concept supposed to work that has been touted on the other pages? Apparently the phrase "skeptics say" is grounds for removal of an entire section, yet right here a large section of this page is "environmentalists say", followed by a collection of opinionated

2826:

As to why Sagan's quote is larger than Singer's? The answer is simply that Singer was apparantly more succinct and to the point than Sagan was. I can't change the fact that Sagan used 5x the words to make his point, can I? I prefer to stick with the actual quotes rather than some bland

2056:. If prompted click on the ABC logo, if not select "Switch" on the top menu and then click on the ABC logo. From there you can select ADV search. I selected nightline, put in Carl Sagan as the keywords, and selected 01/01/1991 to 01/31/1991 and it took me straight to the right one. -- 4672:

share that particular POV label. I was satisfied with letting the reader decide. Your and others' absolute insistence that it be included indicated it was controversial to me and was there for a POV reason & needed to be sourced (I still haven't followed up on it to make sure it is

2298:

Still looking for available sources of information to cite. Currently, the University of Miami has "Summer Institutes" that appear to give not-for-credit, professional development courses. Not clear yet if the available information will suggest a modification of this part of Singer's

293:

I am persuaded to think that any climate change is bad because of the investments and adaptations that have been made by human beings and all of the things that support human existence upon this globe. Even minor fluctuations of climate could change the distribution of fish, ... upset

4107:

NIPCC. That's the linkage that requires sourcing and without such, BLP guidelines require the material be "removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." Singer can be linked to founding the NIPCC, but SEPP cannot (as far as I've researched), and so I have left it at that.

3535:

showed Singer's most recent report on global warming to climate scientists from NASA, from Stanford University and from Princeton. They dismissed it as 'fabricated nonsense.' " So who is right? To elucidate the discrepancy, please note that "Lawrence Solomon is executive director of

2204:

No offense intended on the "again" comment. Just as a means of helping you on the topic in all good faith, the usage of "again" would be more like "X did something. Y undid something. X did something, again. Y undid something, again." "Again" is interpreted as a repetition of the

4112:

What on Earth makes you think that the NIPCC is an organization - or even more than just a collection of individuals who made a report for the SEPP? I'm not going to try to prove a negative here - you onus must be to convince us that the NIPCC is more than just a SEPP publication.

3964:

article citation, which looks like a hit piece if I've seen one, gives no date, so we can't determine anything from its inclusion). We also have no idea as for which research project it was donated--something essential to know if it is to tell us anything nontrivial about Singer.

3957:

I agree that this entry into the article is a simple attempt to devalue Singer's extensive work, whose grants and other funds raised certainly swamp this paltry sum. It is a purely partisan POV attempt to denigrate anyone who might disagree with anthropogenically caused global

2562:

According to what I can find, Singer was dean when the school was founded. The word "founder" by itself may be ambiguous, especially in a large project such as a new university division, in which many people are involved. The phrase "founding Dean" seems more appropriate.

101:

harmful effects. Nevertheless this paragraph is written such that it looks like Singer was wrong. And secondly, what is that paragraph doing there at all? Again this is a very minor event in his very long carreer. It seems again that this was only added to discredit Singer.

2792:

I also think the Singer quote can be shorter, perhaps not even a quote but a summary. Let's not forget, this was a single appearance on a news show 16 years ago. Even if it is a notable event in Singer's career (debatable) it does not deserve more than a passing reference.

924:

Hi, thanks for the citations. The article that he wrote seems to be about CFCs and an increase in UV radiation. It does mention skin cancer, but I am not seeing where he states UV doesn't cause skin cancer. Maybe rewording is needed, such as CFCs and UV radiation? Thanks.

3785:

The curse that I see on him results from denial that second-hand tobacco smoke does not cause cancer. That is clear evidence of magical thinking. Unless somehow that can be gotten out of the article, I'm afraid his reputation suffers. To put it bluntly, he has karma. In

553:

According to ExxonMobil documents, the company gave a 1998 grant of $ 10,000 to Singer's institute, the Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP). It gave another $ 65,000 to the Atlas Economic Research Foundation, Fairfax, Virginia which promotes Singer's

231:

Reverted deletion of of "The Washington Institute for Values in Public Policy" as being founded by the unitarian church. This is interesting information which provides insight to the reader as to the foudation's beliefs and there is seemingly no need to delete

3039:

support "Singer has also been a consultant to the House Select Committee on Space, NASA, GAO, NSF, AEC, NRC, DOD (Strategic Defense Initiative), US DOE Nuclear Waste Panel, the US Treasury, and the state governments of Virginia, Alaska, and Pennsylvania".

2474:

No, there were at least two Institutes which were part of the School. RSMAS was not renamed from SEPS. What is now RSMAS was then the Institute of Marine Science, a part of SEPS. If you want to see U of M documents maybe you should go to the U of M.

2080:

SEW, you are being too terse. Please provide the URL you got it from. Also please provide more context - these things are frequently taken out of context. If its fair use to quote that much, it will be fair use to quote a few paragraphs before and after

2893:

I was happy enough with how the Kuwait oil fires one turned out as a paraphrase so I just copied that one here too. If the rest of you want to trim it more or replace it with what Mr. Connolley had or even some otehr alternative I won't object. ----

4420:

the removal of such non-sourced material as that the NIPCC was "created by" the SEPP--that was not my decision and the editors on this article don't get to make up rules on the fly to satisfy their POV or their "imho" which is, by definition, a POV.

2381:

Again it would be interesting to know more about this "school." As far as I can tell it seems to have vanished after Singer left, which is rather unusual for a major division of a university. You seem to know a lot about it; what happened after 1967?

3659:

inaction on carbon emissions, at least gives the appearance of a conflict of interest. As for blogger Solomon, the appearance of a conflict of interest is just as clear. He has books to sell, and Singer's credibility may be key to those sales. --

2984:"Although lower temperatures were recorded in 1991, Kuwait oil fires had no lasting meteorological impacts at any of the locations examined, and there has been no change to the seasonal synoptic weather patterns throughout the Persian Gulf Region." 1369:

On some topics, "controversy" sections are inevitable. Sometimes there are even separate articles when the controversies are substantial enough - but working "criticism" into a cohesive narrative rather than separating it is the preferred approach

1763:

Our source already is a transcript. What made you confuse that reference thing at the end of the paragraph with an anonymous posting from December? Incidentally, the unreasonable amount of effort needed to confirm Nightline as a source involves

443:

Sagan and Singer both made a prediction about Kuwaiti oil fire smoke in 1991, based on their competing atmospheric theories. One was right, the other wrong. Shouldn't we expect the one who was wrong to change his theory afterwards, based on the

3307: 4593:

I'll still insist on sourcing for calling Newsmax "conservative"--problem is, "conservative" is not necessarily the same thing as "libertarian," and they also contribute. "Liberal" POVs have also been expressed on the site on certain issues.

718:

So $ 10,000 7 years ago is "major funding"? Check how far that goes in a business budget, look at Exxon's annual report on donations and some other organization budgets for comparison. For that matter, compare Exxon's lists to your source.

3595:

I've heard this nonsense often enough. As far as I'm aware (and I'm reasonably well acquainted with the pages in question), none of the global warming/climate change pages uses Al Gore as a source for anything scientific (or even a source at

1435:

this is a small article without a lot of people investing time into it. It seems mainly to be a place for AGW wars to take place. The fact that other more deserving sections have not be fleshed out does not reduce the significance of this

676:. And more important: it is not necessary that someone proves that money was given to F. Singer. This is not the task of an encyclopedia project. Of course references have to be given that others claim that Singer received money from Exxon. 436:

We should not merely call his POV "contrarian" but should say specifically what he disputes and why he disputes it. Let's mention his oft-repeated assertion that warming predicted by IPCC models are contradicted by satellite readings.

957:

skeptical of these things. Note this was in the 1970s when much research was going on to prove these things, these ideas weren't fact back then and reletively new. Should we change it to say "was", or do they still hold the view?

92:

I have my doubts. All the information on this page seems to be factually correct, but there's a lot of bias in the information that is presented, and the way in which it is presented. Unfortunately I see that a lot of wikipedia.

4550:

for BLPs, controversial or not (you can read a quote from the BLP policy below if you don't like reading Wiki policy pages for yourself). This is a discussion going nowhere quickly, so again I'm glad to give you the last word.

4694:

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with who carries the burden of proof in an article--it's the person making the claim. It is not unique to Wiki, but is a widely understood principle in any type of commentary or argumentation. Wiki's

2534:. On the other hand, I found another article written by Singer and published in 1965 identifying himself as the "now Dean" of the School, which would be a bold thing to say about one's current job title if it were incorrect. 1825:

I am not questioning you on this. I am just happy that we can save this bit of history here on wikipedia. I was just confused about whether you had a copy of the transcript in your hands and it seems that you do. Excellent

3731:

My deepest apology, I took your reply as quite nasty and unnecessary, however you are correct, even in your sarcastic and biting tone, you did not issue a personal attack, and apologize for letting my buttons be pressed.

2170:

feel useful for transporting your interpretation of the issue. I don't agree with this selection, and I think more information about Monbiot is sufficiently accessible via the hyperlink - indeed, that's the whole idea of

2357:

In one of those links he's a "Professor" and "Principal Investigator" in another - I'm wondering where there's confirmation that he became a "Dean", as well as explanations about the School that weren't written by him.

2182:

English is not my native language, but as far as I understand it "again" is a normal colloquial usage in this case. "X did something and Y undid it again" - sorry if I'm wrong about this, it was not intendet to mislead.

2720:

lines. The only thing I might change is rather than summarizing Singer I might include his full quote from above. Are people going to have a cow if things expand a little bit because of including Singer's full quote?

1604:

pitch black at noon and temperatures dropped 4-6 C over the Persian Gulf, but not much smoke reached stratospheric altitudes and Asia was spared. I did not sufficiently stress the uncertainty of the calculations."

4699:

policy is also explicit about this basic rule: "The burden of evidence for any edit on Knowledge, but especially for edits about living persons, rests firmly on the shoulders of the person who adds or restores the

4059:

I was about to move it out of the NIPCC section myself (along with the other pejorative statement) because it (they) had nothing to do with NIPCC as sourced. Thanks for promoting a good NPOV encyclopedic article.

3558:

So if an institute received money from a environmental group, then we would discount them as well? How about if Al Gore spoke at a Green Peace rally? does he now fail the test of reliable and is not a bias shill?

736: 2605:

I've read every link. What I'm looking for is confirmation from a source other than Singer himself that the University of Miami considered Singer the "founding Dean" of SEPS. Also some info on what happened to

1626:.orgs that attempt to unfairly and inaccurately portray Sagan as a crazy "alarmist" and Singer as a reasoned skeptic based on a potential debate point earned 15 years ago. Is this really Singer's claim to fame? 4616:

Does anyone claim that its libertarian? But if you want a source for conservative, then it has been pointed out to you several times. Why is this controversial? Is there something wrong with conservative media?

2871:

I agree with the above comments that it deserves a brief reference. The Kuwaiti oil fires article, which you've added to and this section here links to, covers this in more detail. It's more of a weight issue.

1322:

silly, IMHO, and a product of being too PC for one's own good. I agree that calling Newsweek a critic is not exactly correct. Just for the record on the words to avoid, I wasn't the one that introduced those.

1257:

since I am not being allowed to characterize Monbiot's views and motives for making his criticism. As for the Newsweek piece I have never agreed that this is consistent with a charge of conflict of interest.

3171:

Agreed, and I think it is contentious. Clearly we can't use his description of SEPP, for example. But unless it can be shown he's been telling porkies, I'd be inclined to accept it for the purely factual bits

3207:

The only references I've been able to locate for this claim are Knowledge itself, and a few sites which appear to derive from it. Unless someone can scratch up a valid reference, I'm inclined to delete it.

166:

His last known science-type (as opposed to comment-type) paper is: RE-ANALYSIS OF THE NUCLEAR WINTER PHENOMENON, SINGER SF, METEOROLOGY AND ATMOSPHERIC PHYSICS, 38 (4): 228-239 1988. It has never been cited.

1577:

Sagan predicted that smoky oil fires in Kuwait set by Saddam Hussein's army during the first Gulf War would cause an ecological disaster and send black clouds into the atmosphere resulting in global cooling.

1118:

ExxonSecrets is run by Greenpeace who are not exactly an unbiased source. If a more credible source cannot be found I object to the ad hominem style attack on Singer. Consider the fact that Ted Turner's

2845:

If we don't describe the event in any of these places then we should create an article dedicated to the event itself wherein the actual quotes and resulting impacts can be adequately mentioned. Thoughts?

2928:

Koppel assumed Singer's statements were based upon the fires being quickly put out. Singer assured Koppel that they were assuming the fires would continue, yet the smoke would only have local effects.

2644:...But focus, if you would, on the environmental damage. If all those oil wells and storage depots are set on fire simultaneously, you're telling me that the impact environmentally would be negligible? 1286:, for example, is a respected news magazine with no discernible partisan agenda, and the piece is not a "criticism" of Fred Singer), separate "criticism" sections are strongly deprecated by policy - see 1031:

If no one had heard from the Pope or the Church in ten years, then yes you could say "was", because "was" is stating the truth (at some point known, currently unknown). Would you make the claim that the

640:

Disparity of tropospheric and surface temperature trends: New evidence, Douglass DH, Pearson BD, Singer SF, Knappenberger PC, Michaels PJ, GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS 31 (13): Art. No. L13207 JUL 9 2004

326:

13:41, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)) Well I added that. FS's claim (does he actually make that claim? You added it. Can you source it? If not, perhaps the solution is to remove the claim) is absurd and cannot stand

4546:

But it was when the tag-teaming started to keep any changes out that made the "controversy" very evident. But that in itself is a red herring. Wiki simply requires all claims be verifiably sourced,

3072:

different claim -- and since you've left this source in across repeated edits -- you obviously cannot attack it on the same grounds. In short, it was used to short-circuit your POV-pushing attempts.

2445:

Really?? RSMAS website says it was founded in 1940. Singer's being too modest in his bio - he founded a major university institution when he was 16 years old! We can give him the credit he's due.

2532: 1269:

created a subsection in each area to clearly delineate his work from the criticisms of his critics. Hopefully this won't be found to be objectionable since both quotes remain in the article. --

1017:

JoshuaZ just said their website still has that view. Should past tense be used for "The Catholic Church leader was its Pope" if the Church's web site still states that the Pope is its leader? (

1662:

The only option I can think of to provide a reference is to actually contact Singer about it. I am sure that he would get a chuckle out of our warring over such a minor historical anecdote. :)

509:

20:18, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)) As I understand it (and as I apply it), if you find something weaselly, you're allowed to object/remove it, and whoever wants it in is then obliged to find references.

3879:

Its a bit tricky. As a journalist, he's obviously of very poor quality. As a wikipedian, NPA applies. Since I can't strike out an edit comment I hereby withdraw it and apologise for making it

670:("Another highly visible skeptic, S. Fred Singer, acknowledged during a 1994 appearance on the television program Nightline that he had received funding from Exxon, Shell, Unocal and ARCO."), 294:

agriculture,...and inundate costal cities...... Such changes could occur at a faster rate perhaps than human society can evolve. S. Fred Singer, ed. 1975. The Changing Global Environment pp5.

2116:

I don't, up to now ;-). Anyways, it does not add useful information but just spin. If people don't know who Moniot is, the information is just one link away. Don't repeat it unnecessarily. --

950:

Thanks. I see it now from this statement "And indeed, recent laborato- ry experiments have now established that melanoma rates are not likely to depend on exposure to solar UV-B radiation."

637:

Altitude dependence of atmospheric temperature trends: Climate models versus observation, Douglass DH, Pearson BD, Singer SF, GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS 31 (13): Art. No. L13208 JUL 9 2004

3900:

certainly *don't* modify the article in response. *If* the article has identified any flaws in our process or articles we should respond; but if it has, no-one has seen fit to mention them

3531:

Solomon blogs: "Fred Singer one of the world’s renowned scientists" with a "long and outstanding scientific career". Compare that with the professional opinions of Singer's own peers: "

570:

In his letter to The Washington Post, Singer wrote: "My connection to oil during the past decade is as a Wesson Fellow at the Hoover Institution; the Wesson money derives from salad oil."

4314:

Actually its not just the copyright issue - but that speaks for a lot. We also have the disclaimer that clearly stated that any issues taken with the document should refer to SEPP. --

3091: 3069: 3037: 3017: 4717:

Guess you also missed my comment that I had no problem with the label. Just wanted a consistently applied rule for both sides of an issue. Again, feel free to take the last word. --

4643:

The Newsmax articles themselves are quite neutral. Most of the pundits are conservative, but others take an explicitly libertarian viewpoint, which includes liberal social views (I

1600:"Just before Iraq torched the Kuwaiti oil wells in January 1991, I warned that so much smoke might get so high as to disrupt agriculture in much of South Asia; as events transpired, 1298:, for example. This information should be worked into the body of the article - I agree there - but not in segregated "Response from critics" sections. I've also removed a number of 1080:

The information is from ExxonMobil's annual reports for those years, which are not available on the web but could be cited if necessary. Second-hand sources are available on the web

1608:

By Sagan's account, although he's describing this in brief, he didn't seem to have predicted a "nuclear winter" or "global cooling", just that the agriculture in much of South Asia

997:

They are up on their website and there isn't any indication that they don't so I'm not sure what the issue is. In any event, it would probably be easy to find more recent examples.

1413:

interview on his own site) and it is note worthy because it highlights a direct interaction between a climate change proponent and a climate change skeptic and we know the outcome.

1007:

OK, well just to be safe I think it should be past tense, there is no harm in that (agreed?), unless you can find something that states otherwise. Thanks again for the citations.

3107:

The wrong tobaccodocuments.org link was being referenced; this has been corrected. If your first question is regarding his directorship of CAASP, its also on the corrected link.

97:

it's ages ago. So why is it there? I can not escape the impression that it was only given such a central place because it's so blatantly wrong. In other words: To discredit him.

3703:

No, you just replied in nasty manner. Amazingly it seems the only people editing the article are people who seem to have a less than healthy investment in his ill appearance. --

1189:

I believe this section suffers from poor sourcing and WP:WEIGHT issues, and is inappropriate for a BLP. I removed it, but others have added it back, so I've asked for input on

3746:

Apology accepted, and no harm done. I was merely trying my hand at "reductio ad absurdum", if that's the right term for it, and I guess I was a bit clumsy. Again, sorry. --

3988:

At the least, the citation used is a "poorly sourced" highly partisan article meant specifically to undermine Singer and contains unfounded statements and demonstrable error.

2685:

And Dr Sagan, clearly this is a subject on which we could and perhaps one of these days will spend an entire broadcast, but if you could just very quickly spell out for me -

2505: 2531:

Found some more info on Google Books, but it's still a little unclear. One doc published in September 1963 appears to refer to the School, no mention of Singer in the doc.

2330:

It would be interesting to know more details; e.g., was the "school" basically a one-man show in the same manner as his "project" SEPP, or was it a full-fledged department?

2210:

edited the article. Y edited it again." I was just curious about why you phrased it the way you did and you have proved a reasonable explanation. It was never a big deal.

3614:

In all of this I am not hearing any proof that his research was flawed due to where he received funding from. Is there at least a reliable source stating this directly? --

3322:

I don't see why thats so. What exactly is the "false impression" created? It was a long time ago but so were most of his accomplishments, and why is the writing obscure?

3942:

Maybe it was to study the effect of refinery smoke on squirrels, who knows. I think this statement should be removed. It adds nothing to the article and is not NPOV.

244: 2692:

and, in some cases, starvation. Especially for south Asia that seems to be in the cards, and perhaps for a significant fraction of the northern hemisphere as well.

4470:

There are 2 ways to look at the sourcing issue, One of them is yours...and you took an assumption here... You assumed that the NIPCC was/is a separate organization

1612:

be disrupted. As for "ecological disaster", I suppose that's subjective. It did have serious environmental and human consequences that have lingered for years.

1418:

I agree that the first reference appears to have relied on the Knowledge material but it is still hosted by a valid media outlet which means that it should satisfy

4158:

article itself has sources pointing to its self-labeling as conservative. There's no need to reproduce those sources here when a link to the article will do.

575:

In 1998, ExxonMobil gave $ 135,000 to the Hoover Institution -- the same year Singer published an article in the institution's publication, The Hoover Digest.

2746:

Personally, I think it should be reduced, not expanded. As for Mr. Connolley adding it, why not? If we disagree, we'll debate - that's why it's a Wiki. :-)

3306:

Singer may have in some obscure writing expressed his interest in the tentative speculation of Iosif Shklovsky's regarding the origin of the moons of Mars

1653:

trivia ... but still pertinent trivia. An interesting historical factoid if you will. This is hardly Singer's claim to fame as Gmb92 points out as well.

213:

Singer, SF, Talvacchia, J, Watson, N Nontoric Hamiltonian circle actions on four-dimensional symplectic orbifolds P AM MATH SOC 127 (3): 937-940 MAR 1999

3497:

article. The journo in question is deeply and obviously biased (you've read the article I presume?). What he thinks about this article is of no interest

1480:

Good sugestion, thanks. Amazon had the book available for $ 10 so I just purchased a copy to have. It looks like it might be a decent read anyway. --

3717:

Please, no personal attacks. None were intended against you, and sorry if that's how you interpreted it. But that does not excuse you in any way. --

2289:

The second is a reference to a "Summer Institute" in July 1967 that included a course on Fundamental Concepts in Environmental and Planetary Sciences.

2638:), to save us all the fairy-dancing. Given this is an article about Singer, not Sagan, perhaps the Singer quote should be longer than the Sagan one? 2126:

the user, it is more convenient having it here as it now requires no clicks to learn everything you need to know to put his criticism in context. :)

152:

somebody create a Quotes section. Include this: "Both air and water pollution have been virtually eliminated in developed nations." taken from here:

2706:

I agree, it should focus on Singer, not Sagan. William, care to take a stab at a more Singer-centric version? If not, I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

3544:." Sounds about as unbiased as Singer himself, who admits taking money from big oil. I don't think Knowledge owes a single apology to anyone. -- 899:

The issue is not whether it is a biased but whether it is verifiable and notable. Someone should look for support on this. If however, we can find

4099:

The ONLY thing that even remotely comes close is that the NIPCC 2008 Summary is copyrighted by SEPP/Fred Singer. But that says nothing of SEPP

835:

Seems kind of odd that this is in the article. Is this a well known controversy surrounding him ("The Tobacco Remarks") or is it put in here to

3435: 2407:

There are clues in the UM history, but I also didn't know it was a major division. How many Institutes are needed to be a major division? (

440:

I think it's especially unfair to emphasize Carl Sagan's advocacy of the scientific method while trashing Fred Singer for actually using it.

104:

It's justified to cover the failures and wrong predictions a scientists makes. But not to the exclusion of everything else. That's biased.

2963: 111: 4387:

Again, I never changed the status of the NIPCC except providing additional info about it as sourced. I never claimed it was a non-profit

490:

statements. Apparently it's only a "weasel word" if it starts with "skeptics say", and not when it starts with "environmentalists say"?

2286:

bio where the professor says he was invited to be a guest lecturer at a "Summer" School of Environmental and Planetary Sciences in 1967.

2139:

page, I am not going to continue to complain about the reference so why won't you at least compromise by allowing me to improve the text?

1052:

have that view, and not an article from ten or more years ago, then by all means go for it. Otherwise it is best to be safe and not POV.

4012:

I'm not desperately happy with it myself, but the apparent belief above that Exxon just paid him the money for fun isn't very plausible

1629:

GoRight, from the few chapters I've read, your $ 10 is well spent. Good book so far. Like any good scientist, Sagan is a true skeptic.

4028:

was concerned--it has been consistent all along. And that's what makes the insertion of this single line extremely tenuous and POV. --

4517:

claim about NIPCC in the article which is why your asking me to source my comments in the talk pages was a red herring. In any case,

4092:) I've reverted this for lack of sourcing reasons as required by Biographies of Living Persons (BLP) again for the following reasons: 2997: 647:

And this is the same SF Singer, unless of course there are two SF Singers working for SEPP. You never know when clones will pop up.

352:

please don't expect me to defend it. Presumably, you made it up off the top of your head? If so, it would be best to simply remove it.

138: 3644:

and then possibly still a BLP issue. I am personally a believer in Global Warming, however it does not change the issue discussed. --

3019:

support "In the 1950s, Singer was Director of the Center for Atmospheric and Space Physics at the University of Maryland."? Why does

1614:] Was the alleged Nightline discussion limited to the stratosphere issue or were other issues discussed? Other articles such as 2454:

You apparently haven't looked for the name of the school in the first of my three links above. RSMAS used to be an Institute. (

463:

22:21, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)) You need to find a source for the predictions then I guess. What exactly did Sagan predict? And Singer?

307:

Singer claims that he speaks for a "majority" of scientists, although no scientists have endorsed his claim of speaking for them.

4622: 4487: 4319: 4246: 4220: 4118: 3634: 1291: 667:

About the money: there are dozens of links where different organizations say that Fred Singer received money from Exxon, e.g.,

4017: 3905: 3884: 3811: 3502: 3475: 3327: 3177: 3098: 3059: 3045: 3027: 2836:

Note that I have reverted and updated the material on the Kuwait Oil Fires page to better reflect the details now known here.

2485:

It's a bit of a drive for me, so I'll just do what I can remotely. So what was the other institute besides Marine Science?

1081: 2982:

As I read the the synopsis, I noticed it references a document (citation #17) but lacks to add the abstract's last comment:

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If anyone can find a transcript, fine. If not, we have no source. Currently our source for this info is an anonymous editor

1175:

Oh... I guess this is what was complained about in the last note, above. Still, it remains unresolved since May, at least!

1239:

Now that we have a Newsweek-sourced allegation, there is no need for Exxonsecrets-sourced material, so I've removed that.

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It is "tabloid journalism" material not worthy of an encyclopedia (at least as it now stands--no context, just innuendo).

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The Deniers: The world-renowned scientists who stood up against global warming hysteria, political persecution, and fraud

3518:

Nevertheless, it affects our public image. I'm afraid we must candidly discuss gross violations of Knowledge's policies.

2292:(and a similar reference to a "Certificate" from the University of Miami in Environmental and Planetary Sciences in 1967 473: 421: 3230: 2316:

You should make proper arrangements with the University before driving down to Coral Gables to research the archives. (

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backed up (see talk above by WMC). If someone can show a counter-example then this is of course something different. --

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22:21, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)) Re Singers views on the atmos: I'm not really sure exactly what they are. Roger Pielke (here:

2465:

adding to the bio that he was the first "and only" Dean if it turns the School he founded was just a flash in the pan.

1765: 130: 4425:"Exceptions" also indicates such sourcing issues are exempted from the 3RR rule for BLPs and the offending material 1131:

he has a vested interest in promoting the global warming agenda and discrediting any one associated with Big Oil. --

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journals/works, where appropriate). Administrators can regard failure to abide by this ruling as a violation of the

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and other policy is excruciatingly clear--source every claim, especially when it is as substantive as this one was.

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Okay, but when did he ever claim to "speak for a majority of scientists"? And how come you're only in the minority?

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Singer, SF Origin of phobos and deimos: Why we need samples.METEORIT PLANET SCI 37 (7): A131-A131 Suppl. S JUL 2002

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Hi, not sure about it, but Web of Science gives back lots of newer articles (didn't check if they are scientific):

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quotes alone would exand it relative to the curent length. Is wikipedia running short on bytes or something? --

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Can you tell us what you found, especially if there are links that don't ultimately go back to Singer himself?

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I think it's too long, and too focused on Sagan. A simple statement that Singer debated Sagan, followed by a

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I have added an HTML comment in the reference to indicate that the quote was verified from the transcript. --

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request sourcing, instead of deleting or replacing with speculation (such as the existance of an org.). --

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I think it's mildly interesting and could be worth a mention, but we do need a reliable, nonbiased source.

363:

Well, fer cryin' out loud, doc, why would you ever accept ME as a source for anything? You KNOW better ;-)

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at a few of them on WoS and they didn't have abstracts online: which is usually a sign of a comment piece.

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No, not OK yet. Who has read this transcript? What exactly does it say? Is the quotation exact and fair?

1176: 1167: 4668:, POVs. They are also usually meant to immediately diminish a claim or source in the eyes of those who 3856: 3828: 3794: 3577: 3522: 3488: 3443: 3396: 3313: 1575:

I suspect the discussion is rather one sided; quite what Sagan said is unclear. The bald assertion that

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This article seems quite bias. It should be edited to give readers facts, not the writers' opinions.

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I can see a case for changing that category tag. I want to think about it a bit and look over his work.

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It is specifically meant to denigrate Singer as a shill for the oil industry (the "do no harm" rule).

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Excellent! So I assume you purchased a copy and have provided the exact quote contained therein? --

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People criticize Singer and Sagan using two different standards. Personally, I think it's prejudice.

107: 2287: 2166:"everything you need to know to put his criticism in context", but rather some piece of information 630:

shady sometimes on this topic, and it's best to go to the original source). The first few examples:

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Why did you remove the direct quote from Monbiot, should we not let his words speak for themselves?

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Additional reverts by others involved in these revert wars may result in them joining this case.

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Unless SEWilco wants to take a second stab at it. He deserves the first stab if he wants it. --

1539:. The book should arrive on Monday at which point I should be able to make a good reference. -- 822: 704: 655: 619: 592: 525: 498: 476:) rather implausibly attempts to say that Singer isn't too far from the consensus based on this: 3849: 2873: 2148:

And what's this "removing it again" in the summary? That was the first time you deleted it. --

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User Raul654 says that this can't be deleted. Is there a reason? It's uncited as of April 2008.

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Is there/was there a School of Environmental and Planetary Sciences at the University of Miami?

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I agree. We should try to locate a transcript or some other independent verification of this.

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Singer, SF Difficulty in reconciling global-warming dataNATURE 409 (6818): 281-281 JAN 18 2001

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You obviously didn't look at the links I provided. Good luck with the rest of your study. (

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I've fully protected this page because of edit warring. Work it out, or please take this to

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11:21, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)) Store this here for now while I think about adding it to article:

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Singer, SF Global warming: An insignificant trend?SCIENCE 292 (5519): 1063-1063 MAY 11 2001

3134: 2175: 2136: 1972:]. Then again, I haven't found the "advanced search" either from the ABC News Store site 1254: 1190: 867: 781: 4467:

material about living persons. What exactly was "contentious" about the origins of NIPCC?

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Moved it down while you two decide, if its kept or not its clearly not intro material. --

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Knowledge:Requests for arbitration/William M. Connolley and Cortonin#Temporary injunction

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done on wikipedia. Is the a wiki syntax for them or do you just use HTML comments? --

1462:. Check WorldCat and find a nearby library copy so you can write a precise citation. ( 1085: 3970: 3852:, a Knowledge editor in good standing, if somewhat confused about how Knowledge works. 3291: 3276: 2290: 1768:, ABC News Store, Transcripts, transcripts.tv, Advanced Search, end of January 1991. ( 1619: 1490: 848:

What should an atmospheric physicist know about the medical effects of tobacco anyway?

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Viriditas asked me to check this article. I found one particularly difficult sentence:

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Singer, SF Science editor bias on climate change?SCIENCE 301 (5633): 595-595 AUG 1 2003

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part is also written without cause. Newsweek should not be sited. Read this article:

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I notice a "" in the transcript just after Singer's quote. What has been removed? --

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I know a few people at RSMAS; maybe they could ask around to see what happened to it.

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http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/climate_change/index.html#000304

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Actaully Singer has something in ?GRL? 2004/5 I forget - I think he was last author

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I believe a quotation is what quotation marks mean. Is there better wikisyntax? (

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I've removed the "Response from critics" section. Quite apart from its inaccuracy (

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http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=16&num=15348

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exhausted everything we have to say here. I'll gladly give you the last word. --

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All right. Professor Sagan, quite clearly you disagree. So take your best shot.

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In context, this reads like an attempt to discredit Singer. How can we fix this?

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OK, so use Nightline as a source. In this case they should be authoritative. (

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

4044:

never stated that it was the organization of Singer that received the money. --

3997:

Some article admin help here to bring it into compliance would be valuable. --

3309:

but inclusion of that chance remark in the article creates a false impression.

2803:

Yes, it's an interesting sidelight but the present discussion is way too long.

2293: 812:, but does his PhD in Physics make him one? Or is the category more arbitrary? 545:

Now hold on a second here. First, you added two websites. The first one says:

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appropriate reference? Otherwise, I think the statement should be removed...

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be enforced? There is a definite effort to preserve a POV going on here. --

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pioneer in space science. Chipping away at him is the act of little men.

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Started reading this one recently. Jumping ahead to page 257, as noted:

258:

argument that these sources have affected the institute's objectivity. --

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RSMAS was part of the School, so they might know some of its history. (

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And why aren't they cited in support of what they are obviously about?

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that every hypothesis contradicted by observation must be discarded?

4478:, you do not have a copyright or anything to get to that conclusion. 1970:

I'm unable to find this from the ABC News Store. The list I get is

209:

Singer, SF To Mars by way of its moonsSCI AM 282 (3): 56-57 MAR 2000

4463:

No its not a red herring. And BLP only says that you should remove

4096:

anything linking SEPP to the organizational efforts for the NIPCC.

2591:

You might look at the links which already are in this section. --

1402:

entirely, along with the criticism charges I've already discussed.

4413:

This is another red herring trying to shift the burden of proof.

3836:

Could you please clarify which wikipedian was offended and why? `'

2426:

That would be great if you could ask; I sent an email to CESP too.

1536: 1128: 4474:- thats completely unsourced, and completely without any backing 4280:

would be if he allowed me to copyright it). Just doesn't fly. --

3804:

we must candidly discuss gross violations of Knowledge's policies

2789:

admitting his flawed reasoning. No need to rehash his side here.

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policy, especially as it regards biographies for living persons

2978:

Citation #17 is cherry picked and not demonstrative to position

1253:

I am revising my conditional agreement on the Monbiot piece on

1127:

to Greenpeace, and considering that Ted Turner is investing in

517:

but does not specify what document or where it can be found).

1639:

If only he hadn't smoked pot he could have done so much more.

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scenario for the Kumaiti oil fires turned out to be mistaken?

350: 25: 2635: 1974:]. The site does say there are titles not available online. 349:

17:01, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)) Ed, you insserted this fatous claim

200:

Singer, SF Bets off for oil peakGEOTIMES 47 (7): 4-4 JUL 2002

185:

Singer, SF Oil depletionOIL GAS J 101 (31): 10-+ AUG 11 2003

2091:

I'm curious. Are you somehow related to Carl Sagan? :) --

2053: 602:

The second one suffers from serious misrepresentation. The

197:

Singer, SF Energy futuresTECHNOL REV 105 (3): 14-14 APR 2002

191:

Singer, SF Under the sunSCIENTIST 17 (12): 15-15 JUN 16 2003

1778:

OK, so you have verified it. That's all I was looking for.

4647:

read some of the pundits), so the label was/is misleading.

3573:

No, Al Gore, earnest drudge that he is, remains reliable.

987:

Unless they still hold the view we should use past tense.

967:

Edit:It seems the article was written in 1994, not 1970s.

387:

19:27, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)) OK, I'll strip it out of FS then.

4184:

Then source it! Is it too much to ask that the rules of

3195:

I took out "He was the Science Advisor to then-President

953:

Another thing that concerns me is that it says the group

862:

The group is also skeptical about the connection between

4677:

innocuous words to provide NPOV context to another word.

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that say this it would be fine to have in the article.

808:

Is Singer actually a climatologist? He is currently in

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is simply a public policy institute at Stanford. The

2672:

So, just limiting it to Kuwait, what do you project?

220:

13:02, Oct 17, 2003 (UTC) (with reformatting by WMC)

3939:"Singer acknowledges accepting $ 10,000 from Exxon." 3821:Your continued lack of civility. As exemplified by 3090:Help me here. I can't see an attached bio on p2 of 2506:

Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science

1426:. I will continue to dig up additional references. 937:

http://www.sepp.org/key%20issues/ozone/ozscsst.html

250:No reason to emphasize founding or funding sources 839:controversy? Seems almost like a personal attack. 240:It's not the Unitarian but the Unification Church. 3806:from Fred. What gross violations would those be? 3790:he seems almost to be an advocate for confusion. 3438:article says that this article is beng censored. 1292:Knowledge:Neutral_point_of_view#Article_structure 405:What's the best way to mention that Carl Sagan's 3802:Where is this discussion going? We started with 1517:and see if that article needs more citations. ( 755:and act accordingly. Recent reverts by Cortonin 245:Washington Institute for Values in Public Policy 154:http://www.sepp.org/NewSEPP/singer_interview.htm 3248:expanded, to accurately reflect his viewpoint. 3431:A new blog says this article is being censored 243:The connection is described in more detail at 3969:It seems to be in direct violation of Wiki's 1558:I stand corrected, there is some research on 8: 4391:, though it is and I'll source that as well 4580:a big POV "pushback" which did not respect 3484:Does it ever occur to you to be courteous? 2944:stranded in customer service limbo. :( -- 2106:Why do you keep reverting my reference? -- 1288:Knowledge:Words_to_avoid#Article_structure 1216:I've added some additional sourcing, from 977:So any remaing issues with that sentence? 171:http://www.sepp.org/bios/singer/cvsfs.html 3137:as a source for his accomplishments. Per 478:http://www.sepp.org/scirsrch/EOS1999.html 914:There, I think that's cited enough now. 2508:with what you learn, as it's a stub. ( 431: 3629:subjects, including global warming. -- 289:08:56, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)) Singer said: 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 7: 4241:Well no matter - its now sourced. -- 1566:and can source directly from there. 480:but I think thats a bit implausible. 4396:enforced equally and evenhandedly. 1048:If their website states that they 24: 4076:Sourcing SEPP foundation of NIPCC 3453:It's a blog, not an article. -- 2179:while serving no useful purpose. 1535:The closest thing I can find is 432:Singer's views on the atmosphere 29: 2662:CARL SAGAN, CORNELL UNIVERSITY 1537:this talk entry on Sagan's page 1185:The conflict of interest charge 176:Anyone know a more recent one? 3133:It's very questionable to use 2634:Extracts from the transcript ( 1458:says this topic is covered in 742:Since revert wars between the 1: 4433:removed (Wiki's emphasis). -- 4272:the material, by your logic, 2972:05:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC) 2949:20:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 2934:19:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 2923:17:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 2904:22:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC) 2877:07:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC) 2859:17:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 2808:16:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 2798:16:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 2773:22:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2751:21:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2734:21:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2711:21:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2701:21:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2555:22:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 2539:06:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2513:16:59, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2490:00:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2480:18:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2470:17:40, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2459:15:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2450:06:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2440:02:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2431:06:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2422:01:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2412:01:38, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2387:01:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2363:06:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2352:00:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2335:00:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2321:00:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 2304:21:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC) 2269:17:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 2188:10:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 2153:09:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 2121:09:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 2111:08:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 2096:21:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2086:19:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2061:20:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2017:05:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 1979:18:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1930:17:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1877:16:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1820:16:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1811:16:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1801:15:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1792:14:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1783:14:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1773:13:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1737:13:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1728:13:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1715:05:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 1694:03:12, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 1677:03:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 1622:should be looked at as well. 1385:20:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC) 1353:06:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC) 1309:06:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC) 1274:02:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC) 1263:01:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC) 817:15:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC) 1644:05:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC) 1634:05:28, 9 November 2007 (UTC) 1584:21:32, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1571:20:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1544:20:01, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1522:19:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1498:19:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1485:19:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1467:19:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1446:18:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1407:18:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1244:02:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC) 1227:23:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1208:02:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1198:01:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC) 1180:04:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC) 1171:04:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC) 1156:01:15, 16 October 2007 (UTC) 1146:00:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC) 1136:00:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC) 1057:10:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC) 1022:19:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC) 1012:18:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 1002:18:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 992:18:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 982:18:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 972:17:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 963:17:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 945:17:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 930:17:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 919:17:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 908:17:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 894:17:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 853:15:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 844:15:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 173:Doesn't have a list, sadly. 143:03:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC) 4472:without any sourcing at all 1672:to be scrubbed as well. -- 1039:still in orbit around Mars? 4749: 4276:would be the creators (or 3924:12:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3910:07:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3889:21:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3875:20:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3860:20:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3845:02:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3832:01:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3816:18:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3798:14:55, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3756:20:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3742:20:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3727:20:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3713:19:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3699:19:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3684:19:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3669:19:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3654:14:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3639:14:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3624:13:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3610:12:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3581:12:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3569:12:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3554:12:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3526:09:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3507:07:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3492:03:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3480:22:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 3463:21:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 3448:19:12, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 3415:04:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC) 3400:20:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3387:16:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 3373:13:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3350:12:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3332:07:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC) 3317:15:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 3296:07:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 3281:06:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 3258:05:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 3218:02:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 3182:20:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 3151:14:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 3117:13:40, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 3103:07:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 3082:02:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC) 3064:22:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 3050:22:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 3032:22:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 3006:23:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC) 2990:of documented material . 2636:http://www.transcripts.tv/ 2616:04:52, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 2601:04:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 2587:04:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 2573:03:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC) 1397:Sagan/Singer on Nightline. 455:21:13, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC) 420:An interesting article is 416:20:54, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC) 120:17:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC) 2504:You might want to update 2054:http://www.transcripts.tv 1796:I cited it, I read it. ( 1723:. This isn;t good enough 1513:Also see the sources for 826:01:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC) 799:22:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC) 501:23:08, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC) 422:The cows missed the movie 318:13:12, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC) 236:02:27, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC) 4727:04:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC) 4627:20:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4604:03:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4561:04:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC) 4492:20:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4443:03:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4363:04:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC) 4324:20:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4290:03:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4198:03:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4070:19:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4054:10:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4038:19:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4022:09:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 4007:07:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 3235:04:00, 2 July 2008 (UTC) 1107:01:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC) 1093:00:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC) 1075:00:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC) 858:another attack statement 785:22:49, 23 May 2005 (UTC) 766:by William M. Connolley 370:17:42, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC) 274:06:32, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC) 262:19:58, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC) 135:The Enlightened Democrat 4251:19:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC) 4225:18:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC) 4168:17:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC) 4142:16:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC) 4123:16:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC) 4090:15:57, 9 May 2008 (UTC) 3952:01:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC) 3914:Agreed. Ignore it. -- 1460:The Demon-Haunted World 810:Category:Climatologists 804:Category:Climatologists 724:04:16, 2 May 2005 (UTC) 708:04:46, 4 May 2005 (UTC) 684:19:56, 2 May 2005 (UTC) 659:22:06, 1 May 2005 (UTC) 623:22:06, 1 May 2005 (UTC) 596:22:06, 1 May 2005 (UTC) 540:18:57, 1 May 2005 (UTC) 528:03:35, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC) 450:--user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed 411:--user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed 392:Ted Koppel of Nightline 2135:As I indicated on the 1560:the talk page here too 1491:Nuclear winter#_note-4 1104:Geoffrey Allan Plauche 1072:Geoffrey Allan Plauche 2827:paraphrasing thereof. 880:ultraviolet radiation 88:Is this article NPOV? 42:of past discussions. 4014:William M. Connolley 3902:William M. Connolley 3881:William M. Connolley 3808:William M. Connolley 3689:miss your point? -- 3499:William M. Connolley 3472:William M. Connolley 3324:William M. Connolley 3197:Dwight D. Eisenhower 3174:William M. Connolley 3095:William M. Connolley 3056:William M. Connolley 3042:William M. Connolley 3024:William M. Connolley 2698:William M. Connolley 2083:William M. Connolley 1789:William M. Connolley 1725:William M. Connolley 1581:William M. Connolley 1034:Mars Global Surveyor 796:William M. Connolley 748:William M. Connolley 731:Temporary injunction 507:William M. Connolley 470:William M. Connolley 461:William M. Connolley 446:scientific principle 385:William M. Connolley 347:William M. Connolley 324:William M. Connolley 287:William M. Connolley 225:William M. Connolley 161:William M. Connolley 1489:Try pages 256-257. 1296:Knowledge:Criticism 940:Skin Cancer Scare" 4393:once I've added it 4103:being involved in 4101:as an organization 3467:And its a pile of 3269:dispute resolution 3227:Athene cunicularia 1579:is probably wrong 3008: 2996:comment added by 2974: 2962:comment added by 1616:Kuwaiti oil fires 1515:Kuwaiti oil fires 1125:major contributor 1121:Turner Foundation 735:Copied here from 426:Debra J. Saunders 122: 110:comment added by 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 4740: 3865:strong bias. -- 2991: 2957: 1431:On the issue of 901:reliable sources 889:Bias bias bias. 604:Hoover Institute 485:Double standards 105: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 18:Talk:Fred Singer 4748: 4747: 4743: 4742: 4741: 4739: 4738: 4737: 4619:Kim D. Petersen 4484:Kim D. Petersen 4316:Kim D. Petersen 4243:Kim D. Petersen 4217:Kim D. Petersen 4115:Kim D. Petersen 4078: 3936: 3631:Kim D. Petersen 3469:dingoes kidneys 3433: 3304: 3265: 3263:Full protection 3245: 3205: 3135:Singer's own CV 3014: 2980: 2632: 2608:Brian A Schmidt 2579:Brian A Schmidt 2547:Brian A Schmidt 2545:Singer article. 2536:Brian A Schmidt 2487:Brian A Schmidt 2467:Brian A Schmidt 2447:Brian A Schmidt 2428:Brian A Schmidt 2360:Brian A Schmidt 2301:Brian A Schmidt 2283: 2104: 1399: 1187: 1163: 1067: 1065:Funding Sources 868:ozone depletion 860: 833: 831:Tobacco section 806: 792: 733: 487: 434: 394: 301: 283: 150: 90: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 4746: 4744: 4736: 4735: 4734: 4733: 4732: 4731: 4730: 4729: 4708: 4707: 4706: 4705: 4704: 4703: 4702: 4701: 4685: 4684: 4683: 4682: 4681: 4680: 4679: 4678: 4655: 4654: 4653: 4652: 4651: 4650: 4649: 4648: 4634: 4633: 4632: 4631: 4630: 4629: 4609: 4608: 4607: 4606: 4588: 4587: 4586: 4585: 4574: 4573: 4572: 4571: 4570: 4569: 4568: 4567: 4566: 4565: 4564: 4563: 4533: 4532: 4531: 4530: 4529: 4528: 4527: 4526: 4525: 4524: 4523: 4522: 4503: 4502: 4501: 4500: 4499: 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3587: 3586: 3585: 3584: 3583: 3540:and author of 3516: 3515: 3514: 3513: 3512: 3511: 3510: 3509: 3432: 3429: 3428: 3427: 3426: 3425: 3424: 3423: 3422: 3421: 3420: 3419: 3418: 3417: 3363:number etc. -- 3355: 3354: 3353: 3352: 3335: 3334: 3303: 3300: 3299: 3298: 3264: 3261: 3244: 3241: 3240: 3239: 3238: 3237: 3204: 3201: 3193: 3192: 3191: 3190: 3189: 3188: 3187: 3186: 3185: 3184: 3160: 3159: 3158: 3157: 3156: 3155: 3154: 3153: 3143:Stephan Schulz 3124: 3123: 3122: 3121: 3120: 3119: 3085: 3084: 3013: 3010: 2979: 2976: 2964:24.152.178.127 2954: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2938: 2937: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2908: 2907: 2906: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2849: 2848: 2847: 2846: 2840: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2828: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2811: 2810: 2805:Raymond Arritt 2782: 2781: 2780: 2779: 2778: 2777: 2776: 2775: 2758: 2757: 2756: 2755: 2754: 2753: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2724: 2723: 2722: 2721: 2714: 2713: 2631: 2628: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2624: 2623: 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1359: 1358: 1357: 1356: 1355: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1336: 1328: 1327: 1326: 1325: 1324: 1323: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1311: 1300:words to avoid 1277: 1276: 1251: 1250: 1249: 1248: 1247: 1246: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1211: 1210: 1186: 1183: 1177:65.183.135.166 1168:65.183.135.166 1162: 1159: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1109: 1096: 1095: 1090:Raymond Arritt 1066: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1054:The machine512 1043: 1042: 1041: 1040: 1026: 1025: 1009:The machine512 1005: 1004: 989:The machine512 985: 984: 969:The machine512 960:The machine512 948: 947: 927:The machine512 922: 921: 911: 910: 891:The machine512 878:, and between 859: 856: 850:The machine512 841:The machine512 832: 829: 805: 802: 791: 788: 732: 729: 728: 727: 715: 714: 713: 712: 711: 710: 689: 688: 687: 686: 677: 662: 661: 644: 643: 642: 641: 638: 632: 631: 626: 625: 599: 598: 580: 579: 578: 577: 572: 564: 563: 559: 558: 557: 556: 547: 546: 532: 531: 530: 529: 511: 510: 486: 483: 482: 481: 465: 464: 433: 430: 429: 428: 407:nuclear winter 393: 390: 389: 388: 374: 373: 372: 371: 368:(deep or sour) 365:--user:Ed Poor 358: 357: 356: 355: 354: 353: 338: 337: 336: 335: 329: 328: 316:(deep or sour) 313:--user:Ed Poor 309: 308: 300: 299:Is it neutral? 297: 296: 295: 282: 279: 278: 277: 276: 275: 264: 263: 248: 241: 211: 210: 207: 204: 201: 198: 195: 192: 189: 186: 182: 181: 158: 149: 148:Quotes section 146: 112:145.97.224.115 89: 86: 83: 82: 77: 74: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4745: 4728: 4724: 4720: 4719:John G. 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