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hairs. The article stays focused on the manga, and offers a summary of its adaptations; how is that in violation of the third criterion in the GA criteria? Criterion 3(a) even has a caveat that states, "This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics." This article essentially has a focus on the manga, while also providing an overview of the broader topic in relation to its adaptations. Furthermore, criterion 3(b) says to not go into "unnecessary detail", which I do not believe this article does. The sections on the anime detail, briefly, who produced them, when they aired in Japan and North
America, and also their media releases on DVD and BD. The section on the films is even smaller, and the only other sections that are larger are the two on CDs and video games, both of which do not go into "unnecessary detail" i.e. the films nor the video games go into specific detail relating to their production and/or development. If you end up failing the article because of that, be prepared to defend your side at a community reassessment. I do not believe you are accurately applying the GA criteria.--
742:
and tighter, but it's still a lead for a fundamentally different article. And that's the only change that has been made. I don't think the
Citation Needed tag is particularly hard to fix if you have any resources, but it's not been fixed. And I got the strong feeling that noone was even interested in discussing solutions to the Criterion 3 problems, instead denying there were any. (I do think there are solutions, but they need people willing to put in some work to either turn this into a franchise article, or to tighten it up to focus on the manga, moving material as needed to subarticles (probably reworkings of the existing subarticles, renamed to reflect a more appropriate scope. For example, there's no reason why the list of episodes of the anime couldn't have the anime production, reception and such moved to it, an introduction added, the plot summaries tweaked to tell the story a bit more coherently - and then be renamed to
624:; instead of actually attempting to discuss any spinoff, it's just bad, half-hearted lists of incomplete plot summaries.) Trying to follow any thread in this article is made very difficult due to poor structure. For example, discussion of the animé takes place over four different sections ("Differences in the first anime adaptation", "Production", "Anime series", "Anime reception", and, particularly in "Anime reception", does a terrible job specifying which animé is being discussed. If the article is meant to be on the manga, all but a paragraph or two on the animé should be spun off to
746:. This would let this article become a lot tighter and focused, since it wouldn't need to cover everything about the anime; it could just briefly touch on relevant parts). But I don't get the impression that any will exists to even try. Further, the more I dig, the more problems I find. I checked the references, and found highly questionable sources (Amazon). I reread the sentences, and find several that are highly unclear, etc, etc, etc. This article appears to be very far from GA.
763:
using this GA re-assessment as a proxy to criticize how are done or used to be done in wp:anime which echo the discussion in WP:VPP. I very willing to handling the keys of wp:anime to those who know better and can do better but be warned wp:anime is very much like a two fronts trench warfare being caught between those who think anime/manga is crap generator in
Knowledge (even unworthy of mainpage) and extreme fans whose logic can be summarized to "more article = better coverage". --
84:
the point, as I understand it, was to create a different take on the idea; indeed, I pity the person who wants to use
Knowledge to learn about the first anime series, and who, not only won't have any indication the anime series is covered in the article, but won't have the first half of the anime covered beyond "this roughly follows the plot of the manga up to this point..."
301:
include all of the information in their leads about the anime and their airing. An episode list isn't supposed to go into excessive details relating to the production of a series anyway, since it's a list, not a normal article. I would also like to add that much of the series analysis in this article is currently in its reception section.
83:
This seems to fail several criteria. First of all, it's ostensibly an article on the manga. The lead makes this very clear. However, the article, in fact, appears to attempt to cover everything even remotely connected with Full Metal
Alchemist. It does a very poor job at the first animé series, where
741:
I am, of course, quite willing to be proven wrong - I recently reverted a failure of a GA, because, whilst the problems seemed like they would take quite some time, quick and very good work by the nominator surprised me by fixing it. However, little relevant editing is happening. The lead is shorter
533:
But, let's ignore that. You say that the article is meant to focus on the manga, but also provide an overview for the series. It doesn't focus on the manga. And that's the primary problem with this article: It doesn't know what it wants to be. It has the lead of an article that focuses on the manga,
779:
understood we write more about anime reception than manga reception because anime reviews focus on many things (presentation, animation, design, plot, voice acting, dub vs original cast, music, etc) while manga reviews aren't that big (art, organization, plot). Maybe it would be better asking for a
778:
It would help if the reviewer were more clear with his criticism rather than just generalizing. The fact that the anime's reception is bigger than the manga's makes a lot of sense once you realize there are two animes and only one manga. In fact, thanks to my previous contributions to the project I
648:
More simply, it's just not very well-written. Impenetratble sentences like "As the plot continued, however, she felt some characters were maturing and decided to change some scenes, resulting in some sketches of the faces of the characters being improvised." or weird sentence structures such as "as
619:
is ignored completely; the lead does not reflect the article's content in the least; noone would ever expect that this was the only article on
Knowledge where the first anime's reception was covered, for example (And, whilst GA may not look at the overall structure of groups of articles, suffice to
463:
encourages you to write a brief summary, while more details are spun out into other articles, which is already what this article does with the various list articles. If this article covered more details related to the production of the anime, I might agree, but as of now, I believe you're splitting
441:
The
Adventures of Tintin has a brief summary of the adaptations, linking to articles on the adaptations. It doesn't attempt to replace articles on the adaptations. This article has as roughly as much on the anime as it does on the manga. If the anime material was spun out, and the anime was briefly
300:
Episode lists have been used across
Knowledge for ages, and it's standard to give each episode a short summary. And as a list of episodes, obviously the main scope of such an article would be the episode list. To say the episode lists lack any other information is pretty disingenuous when they also
250:
is already in effect with the various branch articles linked in the plot and media sections so that the topic stays focused. Furthermore, a concise plot summary is used, and a brief overview of its differences with the first anime adaptation is offered, while a more detailed plot summary is already
245:
The way I see the article now, it certainly does both. The main aspects of the topic deal with its plot, production, different media types, and reception, and it discusses the different media versions without going into unnecessary detail, nor should it. Are there main aspects of the topic that are
177:
Some sections need to be entirely re-written to be useful to readers, a single sentence about the plot of the first anime is wholly insufficent and doesn't meet the broad scope for a GA. Brotherhood (the second series) is also vague, the manga itself is the main focus of this page despite the anime
762:
From the very beginning this GA re-assessment is a waste of time because what you wanted from the start is a discussion whatever to spin-out or not anime adaptations related articles. Personally, i don't care the result of a such discussion as consensus change or evolve. What i find back-handed is
540:
But, as it is now, a user looking for material on the animé won't even realise we have an article on the animé, because the lead actively misleads. And should the reader realise there is material on the animé, there are three different sections on the animé, and none of them are anywhere near each
241:
and assessed accordingly. If nothing else, if the issue with the lead is dealt with, as outlined in criterion 1(b), and the issue with referencing is dealt with as outlined in criterion 2, then I assume the only other issue would be criterion 3, since criteria 4-6 do not appear to have been called
192:
Um, there's more than a sentence on the plot of the first anime - it gets a paragraph at the end of the plot summary. Perhaps you meant the second anime? There is a lot missing, though. That said, whilst checking this, I note that OVAs are mentioned as existing, but not discussed as to content and
702:
is in the GA criteria, so let's review against. It fails to use appropriate spinoff articles, instead somehow making horribly inappropriate subarticles: A list of episodes of the anime is not a substitute for an article on the anime when it means you have to leave lengthy reception section on the
680:
If this is meant to be an article on the manga, this is not a very good article on the manga. One would expect to find at least a bit of critical analysis in a good article on the manga, a bit of discussion of themes, and so on. Perhaps it would seem a bit more in depth if it didn't have all the
316:
recommend writing brief summaries that cover the major events without going into unnecessary detail. Like I said, a more detailed summary is also available on the chapter and episode lists, so beefing up this article's plot section would go against CMOS, NOVSTY and TVPLOT regarding concise plot
283:
Point 3 is a big one. I can't see how it merits either basic comprehensiveness with its wider scope, or focus on the manga. It's not a very good overview article, and leaves out key things I'd expect, such as analysis. I also worry that by glossing over differences in the animé, it may actively
501:
Like I said above, this is meant to have a focus on the manga, but also acts an a general overview for the series. And I wouldn't call one more paragraph than what the manga's reception section has as "much larger" by any stretch of the imagination. If the manga had like a sentence or two of
638:
template at the top directing people to the article on the second anime. It is insane to try to cover the anime in full in the article on the manga. Alternatively, if an overview article is preferred, both the manga and anime should be spun off, and this article trimmed down into a
737:
As I understand it, if the GAN is unlikely to finish in a week, it's considered better to fail it, and let it be renominated after the problems are fixed. This isn't meant to stop discussion, I just don't think that this can be brought into agreement within any reasonable
545:
criterion 1, as it could never be considered well-written. A similar issue, on a small scale, exists for the light novels, which are seperated over two sections, though this is somewhat more forgiveable as the coverage of them is summarised far more - that's
160:
The lead is meant to summarise the article. This doesn't do that, it instead serves as an introduction to the manga alone, when the article is more general. I'm also not entirely sure everything in the lead appears later, thus meaning it may require
534:
and the body of a mediocre overview article, which lacks appropriate spinoff articles. If the article actually focused on the manga, and all but a brief summary of the anime stuff was spun off to its own article, it would be a far better article.
210:. There's no need to add in unnecessary plot summary to this article when a sufficient summary is found on the list article. The same goes for any additional plot from the two anime series; that is partially what the episode lists are for.--
502:
reception, and the rest of the section was on the anime, I might agree, but again, I believe you're splitting hairs and are intentionally trying to find fault in this article when there is none, at least when it comes to the GA criteria.--
669:
Finally, the plot summary section seems dubious from the view of original research, since it makes statements about the anime following the manga up to a certain point, then diverging, which seems like it should need a citation.
703:
anime, amongst others, standing completely inappropriately in the manga article. A sane spinoff would let you move most of the anime discussion to the article on the anime, giving a good, tight overview article on the manga.
684:
If this is meant to be an overview article, it fails to present itself as such. The lead fails to set up the structure of the article, so, while main points may be there, they aren't particularly accessible by users.
178:
being more well received and notable. Either way this will lead to the organizational dispute. Salvaging this or will be difficult if not impossible without splitting off the contents to their own pages per WP:SS.
412:
is a
Japanese manga series written and illustrated by Hiromu Arakawa." This has been a standard on Knowledge for as long as I've been here, and examples of which can be found in featured articles. For example,
550:
to say that their spinoff article is any good, it both lacks any depth and is terribly written: The plot summary for "Fullmetal
Alchemist: The Land of Sand" is rambling as anything, for example.
164:
Quite simply, the lead is, if anything, actively misleading as to the article contents. Over half the article is about other Full Metal Alchemist media, but the lead gives no hint of this.
116:
Point 3: This somehow fails both sides: It fails to address major aspects of the broader topic it sets itsself outside the lead, but fails to remain focused on its ostensible topic as well.
799:
802:, by now. I don't intend to fight on two fronts, so will be responding to commentary there. Since there's general agreement there this doesn't rise to the standards of a GA, however...
537:
Alternatively, the lead could be rewritten to be about the Fullmetal Alchemist franchise, and the manga and anime both given their own articles, thus getting it down to a trim overview.
242:
into question. If the article "addresses the main aspects of the topic" and "stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail", I don't see why this shouldn't be a GA.
659:
It has a citation needed tag; there seems to be no rush to fix this. I'm also not entirely convinced every sentence in the lead appears later, but it's hard to be sure on that.
442:
discussed here, that would be quite a different thing, but when this article is apparently meant to serve as the article on both the manga and the anime, that won't fly.
284:
mislead as to the anime's plot. Further, the List of episodes is terrible way to present plot, and - as it lacks any other information about the animé, probably violates
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It's standard to introduce a topic based on what it was originally, so it would go against standard convention to introduce the topic with anything other than "
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I have changed the lead, could you review it again and specify points. It's the lead style I've used for all my articles including
110:, as the lead doesn't summarise the article in the slightest, instead acting as if it's the lead to an article on the manga alone.
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I'm surprised it hasn't been a week or I wasn't even told about it. Furthermore, the discussion hasn't even reached an agreement.
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Furthermore, I don't see how the article is "glossing over differences in the anime" as it's meant to only be a brief summary.
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plot, although, admittedly, not all OVAs will have a plot. It seems like they should be discussed, at least a bit.
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because I don't know what to edit based on what the reviewer says and it some things are against common guidelines.
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Your argument hinged on there being very little on the anime. "Two paragraphs for each anime in the media section
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has an extensive adaptations section, but it still introduces the topic as "a series of comic albums".--
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There's a reason Knowledge generally has different articles for books and films. It avoids borderline
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anime it's talking about most of the time. There are two very different anime, clarity is necessary.
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Point 2. This has a tag. I'll let the borderline original research issues raised above pass for now.
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Going more in-depth, several references are to the various branches of Amazon.com, and one is to
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commented by Viz to avoid references to Christianity." abound. A complete copyedit is necessary.
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There are other issues with writing. For example, the section "Anime reception" is very unclear
734:
I did post about this on the relevant Wikiproject; I apologise if I missed a major contributor.
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overview. As it is, the structure is terrible, it's confusing, and nowhere near GA level.
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You realise there's a second, much larger section on the reception of the anime, right?
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The more I look into this, the worse it looks. Here's a summary of the issues:
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other. That sort of basic failure of organization is a clear failure of
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I would also like to comment that the article should be weighed against
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on About.com, which is, at the very least, a dubious source.
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I'm presuming everyone's seen the community reassessment,
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I don't see how this can be a GA. This article is a mess.
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Knowledge:Good_article_reassessment/Fullmetal_Alchemist/1
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This article fails far too comprehensively to be fixed.
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Criterion 3a, It addresses the main points of the topic
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say: the article tree around Fullmetal Alchemist is
455:Two paragraphs for each anime in the media section
134:Hello. Can you be more specific about the lead?
98:I think this fails the following GA criteria:
391:It mentions some adaptations, but it's still
206:The plots of the OVAs are where they belong,
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615:The organization of this article is a mess.
208:List of Fullmetal Alchemist episodes#OVAs
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102:Point 1b requires the article to follow
95:attempts to mash two plots together.
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530:what I would call a brief summary."
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744:Fullmetal Alchemist (first anime)
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188:15:14, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
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626:Fullmetal Alchemist (anime)
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653:Criterion 2, Verifiability
609:Criterion 1, Well-written
246:not currently addressed?
416:The Adventures of Tintin
18:Talk:Fullmetal Alchemist
259:would seem to apply.--
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664:this page
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