936:. The sources are required both to support the claim the editor actually was Kate Osamor (probably true, but not certain) and provide evidence that this is a sufficiently notable part of her career to be worth documenting in a biographical article. Edit logs and The Sun fail both tests. It's been picked up by a few other tabloids, but we're specifically told to ignore them (And for good reason too, otherwise Knowledge bios would be full of "The Sun newspaper reported that..." gossip and utter crap) unless there's evidence of it becoming a significant story beyond the tabloids. A brief reference to the existence of a Sun story in a Times article about other more important stuff doesn't count either. It's possible Osamor will make a statement on it in future or some broadsheet author will include it in a big carefully-worded and researched "politicians who edit their Knowledge" article, but unless and until then it simply doesn't matter enough. It's not like there aren't other more substantial allegations about Osamor to cover anyway
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782:. The Sun is not a reliable source for Knowledge purposes but it's widely-read enough to expect this page to attract more attention in the coming days. Am slightly surprised to see the cause for the controversy over edits is less to do with incidents involving her son and her resignation and mainly to do with an old dispute over the correct form of her full name. Typical Knowledge, I guess...
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editing perhaps, but this template should be removed if the sources aren't clearly supporting the $ part of the template. We do know that she has employed her son as a senior communications officer, but this doesn't prove that he is the user
Midnights1 or that he was paid to make the edits. Too much
899:
article makes the claim that the
Knowledge article was edited by Kate Osamor herself. While this is possibly or probably true, it can't be proved (see below). As for the indef block being in June 2018, I pointed this out because the likely sequence of events is that after her son was convicted of the
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I'm not actually convinced it's appropriate to include, never mind necessary. Only sources I can find that use that name are birth certificate databases, and I'm not sure that "because it appears to antagonise the subject" is a good reason to suspend
Knowledge's usual policy on preferring consistent
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I added this information with the citation of the
Knowledge page edit history as the source. This is a factual log of the edits made and is clearly a reliable source. This has been removed as well by user Dtellett. I agree with Lordrosemount above; it is relevant, true and verified information so it
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is a baroness in her own right. Kate, being her legitimate daughter, is eligible to be styled "The
Honourable". She is not the only MP styled this way - Jacob Rees-Mogg and Ian Paisley Jr both have this style, as did Lindsay Hoyle prior to his Privy Council appointment. This style is derived through
839:
Hang on a mo, if the item someone wants to add is something to the effect of "In
December 2018 it was reported by The Sun newspaper that Osamor had been blocked from editing Knowledge, etc.", surely the relevant article in The Sun has to be an RS for that? The Sun might not be an RS for the content
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to, and as the user above points out we don't have it in the citation. Putting "Ofunne Olive Kate Osamor" into Google returns only this page, another wiki and a now defunct original source which appears to be the personal page of someone interested in peerages. If you go trawling through genealogy
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says "After leaving UEL with a BA degree in Third World
Studies, Kate worked for the Big Issue, a magazine sold by homeless and long-term unemployed people. She later worked for 15 years in the NHS." This seems to account for most of that time
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She left UEL in 2006. She worked in the NHS 2002-2010 (so partly alongside her degree) and 2012 to 2015. This is in her LinkedIn entry which has nothing between her leaving school in 1983 and entering UEL in 2003 at the age of 35.
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doesn't confirm her birth name as Ofunne Olive Kate Osamor. We seem to be going round in circles in this, and her birth name should not be given unless it is in a reliable secondary source, not ancestry sites or other sources with
1073:. Repeated reverts and legal threats get nowhere, as Midnights1 discovered. However, even if a "reliable" source said that Osamor made the edits herself, it would be problematic because it is hard to prove directly, as Knowledge's
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should be included here. Re ianmacm's point above, it's irrelevant that the papers have only just picked it up (better late than never;, it is still relevant verified information worthy of inclusion on her page.
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puts limits on the use of this type of material. It may be true, but should not be supported with primary documents. Also, BLP policy says that if the subject objects, it has to be taken into consideration.--
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logs don't contain anything much beyond the IP address of the user at the time. Average users are not required to reveal their real world identities to
Knowledge, and the media has made this mistake before.--
1044:, and a passing reference in a Times article which is very careful to attribute that to the Sun. I'm generally not a fan of self-referential crap in Knowledge articles except where it is a major story (e.g.
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suggests the subject's birth name should be included. I support Dom Kaos's proposal, although it could go in the "early life" section if it's felt putting it in the lead is giving it too much prominence.
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See above. It's actually quite common for people to turn up and claim that they are the subject of the BLP article, and while this may well be true, in most cases
Knowledge has no way of proving it.--
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databases you'll get a record which seems to indicate the article subject might have had "Ofunne Olive K" on her birth certificate, but I'm not sure it's at all valid to include this sort of
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Does anyone know what she was doing in the 20 years 1983 to 2003? I think that this is of legitimate interest in someone who was and may again be a shadow or actual minister of the crown.
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I see. Unfortunately this honorific (or Rt Hon) regularly gets added to MPs pages when not appropriate, and in this case was added without quoting this rationale or citing any reference.
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There's no hard evidence that those accounts were operated by the subject. Effectively we just have tittle-tattle from tabloids that generally leave no mud unslung.
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in June 2018, but the UK tabloids have only just found out about it and decided to make a hoo-ha over it. Old news on
Knowledge, but news for the tabloids.--
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1048:) anyway, but more importantly it's a violation of Knowledge's BLP policy to make factual claims about an individual sourced to a redtop tabloid newspaper
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31:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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the mother as well as through the father - note that Mark and Carol Thatcher are both The Hon. even though their father was a mere baronet.
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Is there any reason why her birth name keeps being deleted? It should be mentioned in "Early life and career", if not in the lead, surely?
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I was under the impression birth names or maiden names still needed to be reliably secondary sourced for inclusion (with ] only advising
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1017:(ie nobody really knows who is sat at the keyboard). This needs to be worded more carefully and with cites to reliable sources.--
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of its reports, but it's surely not logical to infer that it therefore cannot an RS for the fact that it is reporting them.
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It contains 6 cites for some reason. However, with ctrl-f I get no hits for wikipedia in any of them. Why are they there?
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Update, While I couldn't find a great source including "Olive", there is a good source for "Ofunne Kate Osamor" here:
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applies here. This saga could have been avoided if Midnights1 had posted on the talk page and followed the advice at
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Of course it needs a decent cite, it's a BLP. If we can't source it, we don't include it, WP very basic.
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I removed it it under WP:BLP - it's clearly *true* but it's not verified by an RS which is our standard.
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drugs offence, someone in the tabloids went sniffing around for further stories about Ms Osamor.--
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Well, at least people who know how to access the talk page can find out her real name, I guess…
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I suspect it probably is Osamor, but right now the only source we have making this claim is the
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when the she's universally known as Kate in the many reliable second sources discussing her.
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So, per current sources (assuming Politics.co.uk is RS which I don't know), I suggest "
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1013:. While it may well have been Osamor who made these edits, it is hard to prove because
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reliable secondary sources to original research with birth certificate databases.
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Agreed, these sources don't support the claim that there has been paid editing.
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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banning of the account that was apparently Kate for editing her own page
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I suggest you both (Lordrosemount and Foxinsocks) read the articles on
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isn't considered a reliable source. A bigger problem is that the
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or
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contributors may be personally or professionally connected
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Fwiw, Midnights1 has stated that they are the subject:
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C-Class biography (politics and government) articles
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The editor in question is indefinitely blocked, and
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Knowledge:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom
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Template:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom
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1474:Yep, no reason not to follow the spirit of
811:It's also worth noting that Midnights1 was
667:) This user has contributed to the article.
651:) This user has contributed to the article.
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1397:(born 15 August 1968), is a..."
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1427:can be reliably sourced – see
1362:Unless I've missed something,
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470:and see a list of open tasks.
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1371:problems.--
1683:Categories
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1579:Career gap
1514:References
1249:~dom Kaos~
999:block user
993:filter log
964:Midnights1
730:Honorifics
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639:Midnights1
601:contact us
595:. You may
544:photograph
1448:Yes, but
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770:Publicity
161:Biography
101:Biography
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