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understand
Hiligaynon either until she started learning it. Today, she can now fluently speak Hiligaynon. Karay-as can't understand Hiligaynon either, except for the ones with contact with Ilonggos or are influenced by Hiligaynon mass media. My mother has a Karay-a friend who lived in a remote community somewhere in Antique. She can't understand Hiligaynon at all. That's why she speaks in Tagalog with us. She thought Hiligaynon would sound the same as Kinaray-a, but she was wrong. Ilonggos can't understand Karay-as too, and take that from me. I can't understand Kinray-a. Well maybe except the Ilonggos who has lived with Karay-as, like what this article said.
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inflected forms the people would commonly use(e.g. karay-a, kinaray-a, kiniray-a, hiniraya). HOwever, having the knowledge of inflections of
Visayan language would likely get oneself questioning. with the root word "Iraya"(Ilaya, hiligaynon counterpart) which means 'mountain', plus "hin" or sometimes "In" affix(or sometimes an infix)which when inflected to a word would result one such a modifying word. However, since the Hiniraya shares different stressing from Hiligaynon, the "hin" as an affix would turn into "kin". thus, in books especially dictionaries, "hin" version of HIligaynon is rather being used.
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sensibe explanation. Iraya to iniraya would be very natural in terms of construction, but not one speaker of the language calls the language that, although
Ilonggo scholars like Mulato, Norada, and Deriada claim that Iniraya/Hiniraya are also used. Is there anyone here who knows that someone (an insider) really uses this term? Also, the glottal stop in the word also seems to escape some explanation. Does anyone know any other Kinaray-a word that has undergone the same transformation? *iraya -: -->
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more like
Hiligaynon than Aklanon or Kiniray-a) and Cebuanos understand Hiligaynon with less degree of difficulty. Take that from a Cebuana classmate of mine who speaks only Cebuano and Tagalog. She can really understand Hiligaynon. I asked her about this and she said Hiligaynon sounds a lot like Cebuano. This lead me to conclude that Cebuano and Hiligaynon had a common ancestral language while this ancestral language share another common ancestral language with Aklanon and Kinaray-a.--
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My point of contention does not revolve around the language name and whether it takes the ethnonym. I am fully aware of WP's "general" practice regarding that matter. I am only asking if it is possible to consider the widely-used terminology of the language irrespective of what the ethnic name of its
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All are phonetic and pronounced as they are spelled. Think of them as
Spanish vowels (except for the schwa). The "O" sound is uncommon - mostly used only in other Filipino (particularly Tagalog), derived, and foreign words. In the Western visayas, most words spelled with an "o" are usually pronounced
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And maybe those linguists were right in classifying
Hiligaynon as an Eastern Visayan language. Actually, Hiligaynon is more mutually intelligible with Cebuano than with Aklanon and Kinaray-a, though in the same island. But Ilonggos can understand Cebuano with some degree of difficulty (Cebuano sounds
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No. Hiligaynon is not an offspring of
Kinaray-a. See the talk page of Hiligaynon article. But they, together with Aklanon share a common language ancestor. All the three languages are not mutually intelligible at all. I have an Aklanon classmate who and said she can't understand Kinaray-a. She didn't
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Let's at least start with the schwa (ĆŹ, É™) - not that's not an anime emoticon - it's the capital and lower-case schwa (^^). This schwa sound is similar to the
Japanese one - "Goju" is pronounced GO JĆŹ - so it should be GO JĆŹ RLYĆŹ not GO YOU RYOO (the Japanese "R" is actually something like "RL" with
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Until this days, hiniraya/kiniray-a is still being studied together with hiligaynon/ilonggo since both dialects shares a lot in vocabulary(about 95%)and is speculated as the subdialect of the latter. As of hiniraya, it is intrigued like hiligaynon for its spelling since it has at least three to four
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I am not a linguist, but the use of the 26-letter alphabet is simply insufficient - and people unfamiliar with the language will surely get the pronunciation wrong. For example there's a schwa vowel sound that's often spelled with a "u" - which is wrong if you think about it, because there's also a
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I've seen plenty of samples of
Aklanon writing, notwithstanding the l - e change, the vocabulary is really different, I believe Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon are much more mutually intelligible. The one thing is that I keep thinking that perhaps the linguist made a mistake classifying Hiligaynon as an
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I believe that the existing writing system of
Filipino languages (in fact - ALL languages written in Roman characters) is lacking. So here's where we input our recommendations on spelling/typing words. Maybe we can make a new, more accurate standard for the writing of Kinaray-a through this wiki.
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I have to ask this: the iraya-ilawud-ilig explanation for the roots of Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon seems sensible. But has there really been a comprehensive and definitive study done about this? Just recently, I came to a realization that the shift from iraya to Karay-a or Kinaray-a seems to evade a
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One will NEVER hear "BOkid" in Panay - it's "BUkid". It's the same with "kaOna" - it's "Ka-Una"... "POro" should be spelled "PUro" or "PUru"... but if the quote is from the book... well I guess it's just the deficiencies of the Roman alphabet, which is why I propose the use of IPA.
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Actually, the native forms for Hiligaynon and Aklanon languages follow standard language naming convention in that those language names are identical with their ethnonyms as with all other Philippine languages, where Hiligaynon or Aklanon may refer to both the language
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where it has become the lingua franca. (i.e, there is no such thing as Chavacano people nor Filipino Spanish creole people.) I can't comment on other countries languages for now though, will have to study them first. As for Kinaray-a, there is such a thing here called
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For vowels, use accented characters for the relevant words. Capitalize the syllables to be stressed (and/or type them in bold and/or italics). This will aid in pronunciation. For example: "waRÂ" ("nothing"/"none"), "MAYhâ" ("shy") which has a (glottal?) stop.
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a "D" somewhere in the "RL" sound; the word commonly spelled as "jujitsu"/"jujutsu", is actually pronounced JəJƏTsə - NOT jooJITsoo. I typed the previous sentence because the words are better-known worldwide for those who aren't familiar with Kinaray-a
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to emphasize the language and ethnicity. This is, however, upon distinction of the two concepts within Knowledge (XXG) as both "Kinaray-a" and "Karay-a" are used to refer to the language in actual practice. Nonetheless,
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as "u" / short "oo", and "e" as "i" / short "ee", which is why when most Visayans say English words like "West", you'll hear "WIST"... similar to the New Zealanders - except that they have a longer vowel - like "WEEST".
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Rules: edit your own entries and leave entries of other authors intact - just inform them of your suggestions below the relevant line or, discuss until you come to a consensus, then strike out or delete relevant lines.
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Reverted the "uncontroversial" move as it was not uncontroversial. We just discussed this a couple months ago. If we want it moved to "Kinaray-a language", there should be a new discussion and consensus to do so.
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Use hyphens for words like "kaMA-an" ("know"), "bÉ™-ĆŹL" ("get), "hiMU-a" ("make"/"do"), "sin-U"/"sin-O" ("who"), "di-IN" ("where), "gin-ĆŹT" ("hot")etc. so that pronunciation will be as accurate as possible.
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I think that would be good - but they are not indiscernible from each other. Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon are from different language groups. Kinaray-a is closer to Aklanon than to Hiligaynon. --
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onhan), etc. I understand it follows Visayan word structure but do we really (as non-Visayans) have to know or follow all this? Ilocanos call their language Iluko, but we just know it as
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article and already is a primary redirect. I rest my case. I'm simply splitting hairs and asking for something to be done just because I think it can be done. Karay-a it is, then. --
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Eastern Visayan Language (together with waray-waray) and kinaray-a as Western Visayan. There is one theory that talks about Hiligaynon being an offspring of kinaray-a after all.
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I don't know much about Kinaray-a so I might be wrong, but shouldn't this article be titled simply "Kinaray-a" instead, or "Karay-a/Hiraya language"? As far as I know, the infix
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I am not that familiar with Aklanon, but my Aklanon friends say that they cannot understand Kinaray-a... and to me, their language sounds Cebuano (just the intonation).--
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became the more commonly-used name for the language in both local and foreign academic discourse disregarding whether you're Visayan or not. Notice that the likes of
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be done. The present title makes it clear just what kind of an article it is and what it is talking about. Let's make things easier for the reader.
758:, it's not necessary to use the endonym to all Philippine languages or specifically those in the Visayan branches. It's just that out of practice,
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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have been translated into Gheg, then the Test-project will qualify for Final Approval. To translate those system messages, follow
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Try to discriminate between the "u" sound and the "É™" sound. If they ARE interchangeable in your Kinaray-a dialect, state so.
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If there's a standard for Kinaray-a spelling, I believe it needs improvement, as the 26-letter Roman alphabet just won't do.
893:). Can you name one Philippine language/ethnic group where you have two different names for their language and themselves?--
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is a deviation from this language name standard in that the language is called differently from its ethnic group speakers (
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Hi, everyone. Just discovered how to add to the Discussion page. This is the first wiki I have ever contributed in. YAY!
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Let's try to create a standard for the spelling. I will try to get my relatives and friends to contribute here as well.
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are common, but the former follows the general WP practice of using the same root for the people and their language. —
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already indicates that the word it's inserted to pertains to a language, making the current title somewhat redundant.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Why is it that this particular Visayan language is called or titled in WP in the local manner (with the infix
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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iray-a? If there is none, then I suggest that we begin to doubt the scientificity of this explanation. --
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states that if the ethnicity article has a different title then the "language" suffix can be dropped.
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I am in support of the Kinaray-a Wiki since I am a Karay-a myself. The concerns in the discussion
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My name is fiona s mendoza I am 16 years old I live in pulong tamo San ildefinso Bulacan
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Apologies for not bringing this topic on the talk page prior to requesting a move.--
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would be good since they are so similar and almost indiscernible from each other.--
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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Anyway, back to Kinaray-a, particularly the vowels. How about the following?
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is a Spanish Creole language spoken by multiple ethnicities. Apart from the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20101125143432/http://www.kinaray-a.org/
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Agree, this should have gone through proper RM discussion.--
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I believe this is a dialect of Ilonggo. (Need to research)--
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
833:) and even non-Visayan language-people like Kapampangan (
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The request for Hiligaynon Knowledge (XXG) has now been
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Anyway, regarding the book mentioned in this article...
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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220:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Tambayan Philippines
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560:Suggestions for Kinaray-a Spelling
306:Chris, sorry. I keep forgetting.--
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815:Cebuano people
803:Waray language
799:Aklanon people
727:Onhan language
691:Waray language
669:
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388:Hi crush kita
368:
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242:Low-importance
238:
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212:the discussion
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167:Low‑importance
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107:the discussion
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867:Tswana people
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1533:source check
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1087:Pansitkanton
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1019:Pansitkanton
976:Yakan people
946:Pansitkanton
942:Bamar people
885:redirect to
809:), Cebuano (
807:Waray people
772:Pansitkanton
767:
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40:WikiProjects
1461:move review
1303:as per the
1278:Shhhhwwww!!
1268:What's the
1198:Shhhhwwww!!
1140:move review
926:Kinyarwanda
709:ugbuanon),
477:—Preceding
442:these steps
335:—Preceding
208:Philippines
1621:Categories
1570:Report bug
1430:WP:PRECISE
1186:WP:CONCISE
1009:I believe
986:including
958:Actually,
764:Hiligaynon
717:ol-anon),
467:emanlerona
418:Good News!
410:emanlerona
284:Hiligaynon
1553:this tool
1546:this tool
1405:Chavacano
1380:WP:NCLANG
1315:Kinaray-a
1222:Relisted.
1211:George Ho
1208:Relisted.
1194:Kinaray-a
1190:WP:NCLANG
1173:Kinaray-a
1149:not moved
1054:Kinaray-a
960:Chavacano
918:Malayalam
910:Chavacano
859:WP:NCLANG
760:Kinaray-a
725:asbate),
534:E I O U ĆŹ
112:Languages
103:languages
59:Languages
1603:Tularan
1559:Cheers.—
1409:RioHondo
1363:RioHondo
1359:Bol-anon
1355:Boholano
1313:, where
1113:RMCD bot
1073:RioHondo
997:RioHondo
895:RioHondo
875:Batswana
871:Setswana
756:RioHondo
752:Response
739:RioHondo
675:Question
650:language
491:contribs
479:unsigned
298:Chris S.
266:Untitled
1599:Tularan
1483:my edit
1436:Lugnuts
1401:Comment
1319:Karay-a
1274:concise
1239:Oppose.
1153:Jenks24
1050:Karay-a
988:Basilan
938:Burmese
891:Aklanon
879:Akeanon
768:Aklanon
679:Pare Mo
623:Pare Mo
547:Sedotes
372:Please
337:undated
317:Sedotes
244:on the
139:on the
30:C-class
1426:Oppose
1376:Oppose
1351:olanon
1343:Bisaya
1301:people
1297:Oppose
1247:should
1225:Alakzi
721:(not M
713:(not B
705:(not S
446:Jose77
308:Jondel
288:Jondel
272:Jondel
36:scale.
1384:Taivo
1382:. --
1339:isaya
1331:Waray
1270:logic
1058:kwami
1048:Both
934:Tutsi
729:(not
582:waRĂ‚
483:Likum
1609:talk
1590:talk
1413:talk
1388:talk
1367:talk
1353:and
1341:and
1329:and
1327:aray
1282:talk
1255:talk
1229:talk
1215:talk
1202:talk
1157:talk
1091:talk
1077:talk
1062:talk
1052:and
1023:talk
1001:talk
950:talk
930:Hutu
899:talk
881:and
865:and
776:talk
766:and
743:talk
737:. --
699:aray
662:talk
627:talk
551:talk
487:talk
450:talk
444:. --
406:here
394:talk
374:vote
358:talk
321:talk
1527:RfC
1497:to
1453:.
1243:can
754:. @
681:, @
677:. @
643:to
616:-in
236:Low
131:Low
1623::
1611:)
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1540:.
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1531:{{
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1276:.
1257:)
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1220:--
1206:--
1188:,
1180:,
1176:–
1170:→
1159:)
1151:.
1132:.
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1064:)
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42::
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