944:
One can at least reference that line from Mosers paper in the article as a comparison to similar/alternative and former approaches, saying that virtual voting is from 1993, which is proofable as its in the Moser paper. The latter of which is as reliable as it gets, since
Melliah Smith is one of the godfathers of byzantine fault tolerance. This is also relevant for everyone who want to implement a virtual voting based algorithm, but is currently scared due to obscure US patents on mathematics. In that case wikipedia might suggest Mosers algorithm as a free and more efficient alternative, rendering hashgraph as somewhat anachronistic.
1376:
951:
is an example. In that article, one might give a paragraph to hashgraph, but not an entire wiki-page. Thats much more neutral, because currently, it looks like hashgraph gets unjustified credits, while literally no other virtual voting based total order algorithm gets even a single line. Hedera and
Swirlds make it even look like, that this Leemond Baird had invented virtual voting. Thats a bit strange giving the fact the original inventors Moser and Melliah-Smith are credited NOWHERE on wikipedia. Same for the entire category.
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1429:, indeed the Apache 2.0 license only license patents with respect to the work in question. Any other implementation (especially those not covered by Apache 2.0*) would still be infringing. It is important to note that Hedara has applied for additional patents after the license change, which would be pointless if they had no plans to exercise them.**
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Besides, why is there a wiki about hashgraph at all? That algorithm is not that special. The cult like company Hedera invests a lot of money to make it look like its special. Instead, there should be a wiki on "virtual voting based total order algorithms" because that is a superclass, where hashgraph
1155:
and I've been paid by
Chainlink Labs. I won't make any edits to this page myself to remain compliant with COI rules and have disclosed my COI above. I wanted to suggest an update to content regarding Hedera Hashgraph's governing council, which was last updated in May of this year. Since that time, a
943:
Moser and Smith explicitly say: "”votes are not contained explicitly in the messages, but are deduced from the causal relationships between messages" ; Thats also Bairds definition of virtual voting, but Mosers is from 1993, published in 1999 in the mentioned paper "Byzantine resistant total order".
740:
Moreover hashgraph is not that special. It's a certain incarnation of a broader family called "virtual voting, total order algorithms". See the last paragraph. It would therefore be much more interesting to write an article on that broader class then to focus on one (proprietary) incarnation. This
688:
P.S.: This technology has yet to be fully release to the public, this article is just going to get more and more traction and it is better people like myself who cares to the quality of the edit than the masses flocking to
Knowledge overloading this page with edits or trying to create new articles
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In that orginial paper virtual voting on "hashgraphs" is explained in detail and four algorithms are presented to establish linear order on these graphs. However Moser's algorithms are faster. Hashgraph has local computational complexety of O(n^3). Moreover Mosers algorithm respect the natural
659:
Hashgraph has been spoken about left and right and
Knowledge community keeps deleting new material all the time. I understand there is a huge discrimination towards cryptocurrency in general, but surely in some form, a certain flexibility needs to be accepted. (some projects in the crypto world
671:
And before you tell me you are following the community guidelines, I will have to strongly disagree: Tons of article on different types of crypto currency has been submitted in different languages without this level of censorship and using poor or lacking citations. It gets to a point that the
891:
Besides that, it is at least necessary to put hashgraph into perspective, as a certain type of offshot of Moser & Melliar-Smith's idea of virtual voting in causality graphs. Other offshots are given by
Avalanche and blockmania. They are, too, based on virtual voting in causality graphs.
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So shoulden't the burden of proof be on
Hederas side? They should give proper references to their claim of originality not the other way around. Virtual voting is Moser & Melliah-Smith thats the common knowledge and tought in every graduate curse on total order in distributed systems
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Lol. That part is probabliy written by someone closely affiliated to Hedera. For those people, the algorithm is like a holy grail and from that mindset one can understand that they think the algorithm raised the money. Its almost cult-like and ingenious marketing.
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that makes the comparison - and for a crypto-related article, that means either mainstream news coverage (not just a crypto site), or a peer-reviewed academic source that makes the comparison. We can't just say it because we think it's the case, that's called
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I don't see the problem with it being the primarily sourced, in this particular case. My goal was to actually summarize what is unique about the algorithm. All you have done by requiring technical secondary sources is made the page useless and deletable. -
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The idea of how to achieve consensus in directed acyclic graphs of messages acknowledging other messages is from the paper "Byzantine-Resistant Total
Ordering Algorithms" ... Hashgraph rebrands and specializes this but without any reference to that paper.
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It doesn't make any sense that everybody's Wikis got more info on
Hashgraph than Knowledge themselves. This is the point where you have to ask yourself how far are you willing to censor data that might be seen questionable but still 3rd party reliable?
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If you look at
Swirlds paper, Moser & Melliar-Smith are never mentioned. Also nowhere in all of Hederas business talk. This so awkward, I get red flushes seeing this Lemon Baird guy talking about in videos how he had "invented" virtual voting.
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I use to rely on Knowledge for valuable info, but I found out in the recent days that a lot is filtered out. (It makes it hard to consider the next donation to the website when the community itself stop considering curious people like myself)
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about it. Don't wait too long to start allowing more flexible changes, I doubt the community would wait; just a matter of time until more people like me keeps asking why, instead of having 1 every week, you'll eventually have 10 edits a day.
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But the article appears as to picture this algorithms much more favorable then it actually is. This gives a very wrong picture, especially for investors and those previously mentioned "cult-like" believers. It needs an update soon
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We are only using top-shelf sources for blockchain articles, if the source is even remotely questionable it isn't kosher. Yahoo finance is generally all junk and reprints, I dont think they have their own editorial department.
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story was copied from? I did some Googling and couldn't find it, it seems to have been buried by re-shares of the story. Also, while we're at it, I'm not familiar with the "fidelitous reprint" doctrine. Am I missing that on
883:
That entire Hedera company is a blueprint of the imperalistic US way, stolen ideas, sold as originals, protected by "laws" most of the world rejects (patanting of mathematical ideas, e.g. abstract algorithms).
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I think it is important for a neutral PoV to mention this in the wiki. Mostly to make people aware of the unscientific approach this "former" mathematician took. However I'm too opinionated to write it.
704:
The context is that cryptocurrency articles are magnets for advocacy and financially-interested spam. This is why the general sanctions on cryptocurrency articles, which you've been notified of, exist.
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has always considered this sort of straight-up reprint to have the reliability of the source. NASDAQ News has the same problem. If you don't see why that would be, RSN would be the place to ask -
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Ah, I didn't know that little logo meant anything. And thanks for the info on the RS situation. I was pretty sure there was nothing official on that on the guideline, but I wanted to check.
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The original idea can be found in Moser & Melliar-Smith [Louise E. Moser and P. M. Melliar-Smith: 1999, Byzantine-Resistant Total Ordering Algorithms. Inf. Comput.. 150. 75-111.]
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BusinessWire is literally a press release service - that's a primary source, not an RS. ZDnet source is reporting a funding round for Swirlds, nothing about Hashgraph itself -
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My thought on removing the whole section is If you remove the quote by Sirer, the rest of the section is basically not needed, because it is a rebuttal to the quote by Sirer.
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would also solve the concerns, that this article is just a business trick from the Hedera-cult. So maybe delete th hole page and write a page regarding virtual voting itself?
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Hedera is owned and managed by a "governing council" of global companies and entities that have invested in it. The council's members include Swirlds, as well as
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If you delete someone's addendum, at least have the curtesy to explain and help, straight out deletion with a single line reason is plainly aggressive behavior.
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1435:**Publication is sufficient to establish prior art, there is no need to obtain a patent simply to prevent another party from obtaining a similar patent
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The Yahoo article literally says at the top that it's from BeinCrypto. Yahoo Finance original articles are RS, but it also reprints a lot of trash.
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754:"Hedera Hashgraph is a public distributed ledger based on the Hashgraph algorithm which in 2018 raised $ 100 million at a $ 6 billion market cap."
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Professor Emin GĂĽn Sirer who is being quoted in this section, is the Founder and CEO of Avalanche, which is a direct competitor to Hedera.
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There are also many experts who see fundamental flaws in the hashgraph design, once a transition to a permissionless setting is made:
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number of organizations that now have Knowledge pages have joined the council, so my suggestion is as follows (edits bolded):
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partial order of causality inherent to any Lamport clock, or Lamport timestamp. Hashgraph does not respect that order.
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has never been an excuse to add rubbish to an article - perhaps you should be removing it from those other articles -
1432:*One could implement an otherwise infringing Apache 2.0 licensed version Ship of Theseus style from the released code
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Please do not delete this comment until a panel of your peers had time to revise it. No more dictatorship editing.
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There is literally one RS in the whole article. It's a good RS! ... but the rest is entirely primary sourced.
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I just tagged the bad sources. Are there any other RSes? Can we base an article on literally a single RS? -
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He should not be quoted, because he is clearly running down and talking negatively about his competition.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Can someone else take a look and see if they can take a stab at editing the Criticism section.
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Hashgraph is now an opensource technology, At the top of the page it says hashgraph is patented
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I had edited and removed this whole "criticism" section completely, but the edit was reverted.
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One just has to do a google image search for "lamport clock" to see the "hashgraph" appearing.
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apply, and there's no reason cryptocurrency articles somehow constitute a special case. Also,
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Some of us put in the hard work to find the articles, it hurts to see it deleted in seconds
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of this stuff? (There's no way Squawker counts as an RS, particularly for mathematics.) -
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editing is not consistent across articles and then feels more like dictatorship.
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yeah, I've been told about this. The problem is to find a Knowledge-quality
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30:. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
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I speak as a community member, I expect some resolution in a near future.
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https://ethresear.ch/t/hashgraph-consensus-timing-vulnerability/2120/45
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Per the above, I've cut the primary-source material ... which was : -->
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https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/open-source-at-hedera
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Would you mind sharing a link to the "no-account crypto blog" the
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by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
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If that makes it deletable, then it was already deletable -
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https://patents.justia.com/assignee/hedera-hashgraph-llc
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Hashgraph is a Rebranding of an Algorithm from the 90th
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After confirming the quotes are in the new version. --
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Hashgraph is a clone from a 1993 family of algorithms
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https://www.hedera.com/hh-whitepaper-v1.5-190219.pdf
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https://www.hedera.com/hh-whitepaper-v1.4-181017.pdf
387:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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1514:Low-importance WikiProject Cryptocurrency articles
1299:This reflects badly on Knowledge, in my opinion.
523:+1 - and I added Sirer's substantive critique -
221:, a project which is currently considered to be
1509:Start-Class WikiProject Cryptocurrency articles
1323:Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2022
1386:that support the change you want to be made.
1127:Update: Present-Day Governing Council Members
660:actually tries to resolve real world issues)
8:
781:Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2019
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1425:It's still covered by a host of patents:
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1238:Let me know what you think. Thank you!
829:because this is an updated Whitepaper.
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1071:oh, they do! And their own stuff is
401:Knowledge:WikiProject Cryptocurrency
381:This article is within the scope of
284:This article is within the scope of
217:This article is within the scope of
142:This article is within the scope of
1519:WikiProject Cryptocurrency articles
407:WikiProject Cryptocurrency articles
404:Template:WikiProject Cryptocurrency
88:It is of interest to the following
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165:Template:WikiProject Technology
26:This article was nominated for
1494:Start-Class Computing articles
1289:Critism section Requested Edit
759:How can a ledger raise money?
315:Template:WikiProject Computing
236:Template:WikiProject Databases
1:
1404:05:01, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
1369:22:32, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
1318:14:09, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
1248:19:47, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
647:09:54, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
629:18:32, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
395:and see a list of open tasks.
306:and see a list of open tasks.
156:and see a list of open tasks.
582:01:02 PM, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
543:Primary-sourced version was
1524:Implemented requested edits
1445:01:42, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
1421:09:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
1353:to reactivate your request.
1341:has been answered. Set the
988:13:12, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
862:21:27, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
811:to reactivate your request.
799:has been answered. Set the
735:16:03, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
613:I have two more RSes here:
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1266:"Hedera Governing Council"
1198:London School of Economics
699:23:10, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
533:10:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
519:10:21, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
509:Restored initial content.
505:10:12, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
488:19:04, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
461:18:59, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
384:WikiProject Cryptocurrency
338:project's importance scale
1470:21:48, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
1194:University College London
1117:02:45, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
1085:23:28, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
1063:13:07, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
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1027:03:37, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
938:20:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
839:21:44, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
772:09:31, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
745:Can a ledger raise money?
603:18:34, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
569:09:52, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
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655:Looking for some context
466:Suitable other sources:
50:, October 28, 2017, see
551:do we have third-party
1504:All Computing articles
300:information technology
145:WikiProject Technology
78:This article is rated
1186:Électricité de France
994:Yahoo! Finance Revert
287:WikiProject Computing
219:WikiProject Databases
40:, 5 March 2021, see
1233:and several others.
1231:Tata Communications
1182:Tata Communications
922:"original research"
723:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
168:Technology articles
928:in local jargon -
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318:Computing articles
239:Databases articles
84:content assessment
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1339:edit request
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1273:. Retrieved
1269:
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1213:
1206:Shinhan Bank
1158:
1151:Hi all, I'm
1150:
1143:edit request
1106:
1100:David Gerard
1077:David Gerard
1038:David Gerard
1016:
1006:
1001:David Gerard
997:
974:— Preceding
970:
965:
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930:David Gerard
894:— Preceding
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797:edit request
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727:David Gerard
691:66.46.127.94
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639:David Gerard
615:Businesswire
595:David Gerard
561:David Gerard
556:
525:David Gerard
497:David Gerard
480:David Gerard
453:David Gerard
450:
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422:
382:
333:
285:
222:
143:
90:WikiProjects
47:
37:
1275:10 December
926:"synthesis"
749:Regarding:
580:User:Dbal99
80:Start-class
1478:Categories
1343:|answered=
1253:References
1227:ServiceNow
1073:WP:NEWSORG
1055:Jtbobwaysf
854:Trialpears
801:|answered=
468:TechCrunch
159:Technology
150:technology
109:Technology
52:discussion
42:discussion
1380:Not done:
1361:Batteagle
1219:Chainlink
1202:DLA Piper
309:Computing
296:computing
292:computers
264:Computing
230:Databases
193:Databases
38:Withdrawn
1408:Source:
976:unsigned
908:contribs
896:unsigned
764:Mortense
545:restored
224:inactive
198:inactive
28:deletion
1437:SnoFoot
1393:elecie
1223:Dentons
959:Concept
425:on the
336:on the
1196:, the
1166:Boeing
1162:Google
1034:WP:RSN
621:Blearn
549:Dbal99
472:Forbes
444:One RS
298:, and
86:scale.
48:delete
1347:|ans=
1337:This
1310:Vicwd
1141:This
1012:WP:RS
805:|ans=
795:This
715:WP:OR
707:WP:RS
618:ZDNet
1466:talk
1441:talk
1417:talk
1365:talk
1314:talk
1277:2021
1244:talk
1081:talk
1059:talk
1042:talk
984:talk
934:talk
904:talk
858:talk
850:Done
835:talk
823:to:
768:talk
731:talk
719:WP:V
717:and
711:WP:N
695:talk
643:talk
625:talk
599:talk
565:talk
529:talk
515:talk
501:talk
484:talk
457:talk
1345:or
1192:,
1190:FIS
1170:IBM
924:or
803:or
557:any
555:on
417:Low
328:Low
1480::
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1178:LG
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44:.
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