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Quantum Field Theory, some of them being already referenced in the Higgs boson article (Peskin and
Schroeder ...). Regarding the list of sources, and more specifically to the ATLAS and CMS publication lists, these lists have the advantage of being updated from time to time, providing up to date information. And selecting the ones dealing specifically with the Higgs identification would restrict the lists to only a few publications, of order 10 at worst, which is reasonnable compared to the 200 references of the article. But please note that these references where removed in the second version of the section I have added, which is the version under consideration here, not the one copied above in this talk page! In the modified version are 5 external references plus many references to existing wikipedia articles. By comparison to other parts of the main article I think that the number of references in my section is not so ridiculous, even though I agree that more references would be better. In particular the mathematical section contains only 2 sources: chapter 20 of Peskin and Schroeder book, and the Particle Data Group website for the measure of the parameter named v in particle physics. But any reader opening chapter 20 of the Peskin and Schroeder book will have some difficulties to consider that it is a relevant and reliable source for this section since the presentation is completely different. Of course a specialist would recognize that the book explains the same thing as in the article, but I cannot consider the argument that some parts are not clear for a non specialist as a valid argument with respect to the wikipedia guidelines (otherwise lots of articles would have to be removed...).
637:
something you need once per x words", and I agree with his statement even though he does not estimate that the references I provided are sufficient or sufficiently relevant. But well, I have provided references that you have clearly not evaluated, like the others except Ptrslv72 and (possibly) mfb. May be because you somehow admitted not being a physicist or a specialist of the topic when you said "Now I don't doubt that it could be that all these claims are justified or even obvious to a scientist working in the field, but they're not obvious to me...". Therefore we are left in the situation where only Ptrslv72 provided specific arguments in the discussion, but from an outside view many contributors disagree with the addition of the section I wrote. Since there have not been any more comments since some weeks I think it is hopeless to obtain a positive support for my contribution, so I give up. Ptrslv72, regarding your personnal attacks, I often have doubts regarding my actions and thoughts, and I think it's just the main difference between you and me. Farewell! 22:36, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
992:
person claiming it is incoherent. assuming energy and mass are equal, if higgs bosons are the heaviest particles known and if light particles/photons are the 'lightest' particles, higgs bosons would be the opposite of light on the energy spectrum(every-thing is energy). assuming higgs bosons are the heaviest form of energy it also follows they would have the 'most' energy which allows them to stretch spacetime enough to force lighter particles to follow in their wake which we call gravity. lighter energy literally falls down the curved spacetime created by heavier energy, from an observers perspective eventually the spacetime can appear to tear resulting in black holes where energy is spatially moving faster than light and in the process appearing black. considering the well established fact that the universe is expanding faster than light, and the only objects causing light to appear black is the spatial folds created by mass, we might also consider black holes to play a fundamental role in the creation of new universes which has been proposed by
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upper mass limit is 200 GeV, is not obvious, and neither is the explanation provided clear. What is this quadratic divergence problem? Why is there no physically observable consequence if the mass is less than 200 GeV? Who claimed that the 100-200 GeV mass range is not a constraint given by theory? Now I don't doubt that it could be that all these claims are justified or even obvious to a scientist working in the field, but they're not obvious to me, nor I would think to most people. They therefore need to be sourced. The section does cite sources, but they're extremely wide. Citing the entire collection of ATLAS and CMS papers is rather like citing "scientific discussions over the past 100 years" for the statement "there are four fundamental forces". Such a citation isn't
544:
Banedon: you said that the mathematical section IS sourced! But how do you know that? It refers mainly to one reference, and only a specialist could make the mapping between the statements of the mathematical part and the corresponding source (just open this book and check if you don't believe me)...and you admitted not to be a specialist in the field (which is not a criticism of course), but I really don't understand your logic when you then say that the section I wanted to add is poorly sourced???? So far only one editor (Ptrslv72) gave specific arguments against the sources I provided (and I disagree with these arguments).
410:
reasoning, if any, are presented implicitly and require explicit clarification and justification. I have no problem with the text being included more or less as is, but as a reader I need to know which points are independent, where to find material on them (whether within WP or not, ie preferably with links that explain the material or citations where the points are not accessible in WP and the ideas are disputable). Less handwaving, and more substance please. As it stands even the alleged summary is neither encyclopaedic nor comprehensible to the non-specialist.
1121:-if observation is the symmetry break of light(double slit), and everything is energy- observation is also the symmetry break of all energy which is why relativity is between the observer(uncertainty) and the observed(principle), spatially distant energy relative to the observer becomes black(devoid of light/color). if the observer is the symmetry break between all energy, the observer is the symmetry break between all concepts including quantum mechanics and general relativity, but the goal of science is to minimize these 'breaks' to the most efficient analogy.
1034:
abstract(black|white) information fusing with the real(observer|observed) energy, space-time is multi-verse(literally space+time=2 verses)|(figuratively observation is the symmetry break of light as in the double slit experiment- light(photons)+heavy(higgs mass)=energy spectrum=multiverse), nothing-uncertainty|something-principle (uncertainty|principle) creating everything inbetween(duality spectrum/binary logic), a perpetual motion feedback loop we experience as 'time'(and space) fusing with our awareness of it- loops and strings being the analogy used in
622:(as aptly put by SPACKlick). So far I count seven editors (Ruslik0, Mfb, Dailycare, Banedon, JonRichfield, SPACKlick and myself) who tried to explain to you, one way or another, that your section does not comply with Knowledge (XXG)'s guidelines on sourcing. Even the lone editor who opposed the deletion did not give a better reason than "you put a lot of work in it", and he/she also stressed the need for suitable references. Will you ever be touched by the doubt that maybe - just maybe - it is you who doesn't understand how Knowledge (XXG) works?
2184:
getting to the 10th occurrence? Perhaps a wikilink could be added sooner, so as to be more useful to the average (non-particle physicist) user? I certainly appreciate the article and am only looking to make it easier for someone reading wikipedia to understand and enjoy the article more easily. In any case, that is my opinion and experience today, as a medical scientist, and I will now leave it to you all (who have spent so much time making the article as excellent as it is) to decide what is the best presentation. Thanks -
859:(copied below) are terrible examples of further applications. They have nothing at all to do with the physical phenomena of the Higgs particle but instead are tangential scientific improvements due to having to deal with the data involved. Can someone come up with some better examples, such as something that grew out of our knowledge of electromagnetic fields? The semiconductor comes to mind but I don't know enough about the physics to be sure it is actually a reasonable example.
1110:"not even wrong" is another way of saying 'i dont know', "impossible to pin down what would be wrong" is a claim that it is unknowable- yet you have not provided evidence for the claim, you're saying my comments are unreasonable without providing a reason. aside from that, top quarks(left|right) actually fuse with higgs bosons via yukawa interaction(analogy): the Yukawa interaction is used in the Standard Model to describe the coupling between the Higgs field and
31:
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theoretical model itself, called the quadratic divergence problem. When the mass is less than around 200 GeV, the theoretical problem is still there, but has no physically observable consequence. To summarize, the mass range in which physicists expected to find the Higgs boson is not a constraint given by the theory, and finding a new particle in this mass range is not a sufficient evidence that is particle is a Higgs boson.
363:, the rejection was justified. I'll be the first to say that I know little about the Higgs boson compared to other editors here, and therefore if it comes to it I'd gladly retract this comment to let people with real expertise decide. Nonetheless I'll say that to my untrained eye the section is dangerously close to if not outright OR. Take this paragraph for example:
862:"The challenges in particle physics have furthered major technological progress of widespread importance. For example, the World Wide Web began as a project to improve CERN's communication system. CERN's requirement to process massive amounts of data produced by the Large Hadron Collider also led to contributions to the fields of distributed and cloud computing."
1118:, these fermions acquire(fuse with) a mass proportional to the vacuum expectation value of the Higgs field. The Higgs boson has a Yukawa coupling to the left- and right-handed top quarks. After electroweak symmetry breaking (when the Higgs acquires a vacuum expectation value), the left- and right-handed components mix(analogy), becoming a mass term.
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2270:, "evaporation" or lack of increased significance for previous hints of non-Standard Model findings, expected Standard Model interactions with W and Z bosons, absence of "significant new implications" for or against supersymmetry, and in general no significant deviations to date from the results expected of a Standard Model Higgs boson.
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Supersymmetric
Standard Model, that predicts the existence of a second Higgs field which has a weak hypercharge Y=-1 (or -1/2 if one uses the convention mentioned in the previous parenthesis). This last detail is not included in this article but it is mentioned in the section "MSSM fields" in the relevant theory which is described here:
2455:. Now, I do suspect that the article is long enough that it could be split (somehow). It is not so well understood that quantum mechanics always has a field to go along with any particle, and that the reason we call them particles is that they are quantized and always come in whole units. I wouldn't rename to
1564:
Ok, I've integrated the non-technical summary table info into the overview info to create a single non-technical summary. I've endeavoured not to change any info, however please check that I've not inadvertently introduced any errors. Similarly, the section is still poorly sourced, since the original
1392:
Sure, but the situation won't change. Every particle physicist called the discovered particle "Higgs boson" since 2012, but no one will ever say "we are absolutely sure that it behaves exactly as the SM Higgs boson", because infinite precision measurements are not possible. With the same argument, we
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Dear
Banedon (and others): you say that the fact that the 100-200 Gev mass range is not given by the theory is not clear to a non specialist. I agree with that. The same comment applies to many parts of this wikipedia article, like the mathematical section. But both can be found in any textbook about
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Just to be sure, I do believe that the article is big enough to split, but don't believe that particle vs. field is the right one. As well as I know it, particle vs. field are two different ways to look at the same thing. People find it confusing, but nature (that is, QM) doesn't care. Much of that
1355:
However, it now seems to be more or less accepted that the 125 GeV particle is indeed the Higgs Boson for all intents and purposes. The staunch skepticism of our article no longer seems to be in line with the preponderance of reliable sources. What would people think of relaxing the lead wording and
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to convert for mechanical work similar to how the multiverse appears to create new universes, or if we could find a way to fissure/fuse a higgs boson theoretically it would release all forms of lighter energy/particles lighter than higgs bosons but that might already be what hawking radiation is(the
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if energy and mass are equal, higgs bosons would be the opposite of light(which is why the most massive objects: black holes, are black), this explains why all energy including light is attracted to higgs bosons via gravity. mass is the most compact form of energy and light is the least compact form
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In principle I think the section could be included (perhaps positioned immediately after the 'Confirmation of new particle as a Higgs boson, and current status' section however), but it should be better sourced, and there should be some indication that there is controversy over the identification of
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This sentence makes several claims. It claims that the lower mass limit 100 GeV arises because of previous experiments, which is reasonably obvious (at least to anyone with a very basic understanding of particle physics), so I can look past this being unsourced. The other main claim though, that the
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My feeling is that this is better than the previous wording, but it is vague and doesn't get across the crucial idea that the Higgs is the quantum or carrier particle of the Higgs field, the same way the photon is for the electromagnetic field. You editors have done an exceptional job of making an
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Dear
Banedon, I think there is a contradiction between your requirement to add some sources for "many claims that require sourcing" (you don't specify which ones) and the almost single reference for the mathematical part of the article which seems to be ok for you. Even mfb said "References are not
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Delete or source and rationalise. I have no problem with the material, once the objections have been overcome, but as yet they have not. I support the previous deletes in substance. It not only needs sourcing for substance, no matter how obvious the claims might seem to physicists, but the lines of
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Fact: The first pioneering steps in grid computing were taken in the US. The term “grid computing” was first used in a book by Grid pioneers Ian Foster and Carl
Kesselman, as a metaphor for making computing power accessible in the same way as electrical power. The LHC Computing Grid Project, led by
2654:
It feels silly to write a Talk page post about this, bc I'd normally just fix it, but the page is protected, so: there's an unneeded comma in the third paragraph of the intro, in the sentence in parentheses. The comma after "...gain mass at lower energies" shouldn't be there and should be deleted.
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would be a good place for a simple explanation for nontechnical readers that all elementary particles have an associated field and all fields in physics interact with matter in quantized units as if they are particles. We could write an introductory section explaining this; the article desperately
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The issue was that a bunch of discontent Indian editors, at the time of that notice, were unilaterally adding that the Higgs was supposedly named after Bose, an Indian scientist. When in fact it was named after Higgs. The boson, as a type of particle, was named for Bose, and not the Higgs. That is
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I'm frankly astonished by that because that's not how references work. References show where a particular claim can be verified. That it isn't obvious how the reference directly maps to the text for a non-specialist is not a big deal; the source is there and you agreed that it backs the claims up.
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Encyclopedias aren't written for specialists. A textbook source is OK, but it should still be cited. Also, the sources cited should back up what is said, not provide up-to-date information. Internal references to other
Knowledge (XXG) articles are much less than ideal since Knowledge (XXG) isn't a
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I agree that the edit notice is outdated, particularly given the fermion couplings measurements and no deviation in the cross section from the SM in 2015. In much of the recent scientific literature (both peer-reviewed and in press-releases written by CERN and other institutes) the Higgs boson is
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CERN is never going to come out and say "We are now 100% certain this is the Higgs Boson" as there is always uncertainty: "I’m not sure one will ever say this is the
Standard Model Higgs boson ... You can never prove something is right, you can only ever prove something is wrong. All we can do is
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due to the uncertainty principle, analogy is fundamentally how all information is transmitted- energy is no different. while i agree associations in the realm of science should be narrowed down to the most efficient analogy, the burden of improving the coherency of my original statement is on the
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I understand that the article wants to make the point that the Higgs field is more important to scientists than the Higgs particle, but is this the way to say it? The 2nd sentence neglects to specify that the Higgs particle is actually the transmitter of the field, implying that it is trivial or
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I agree that the lead is a bit long and could be trimmed. However, moving all its paragraphs after the first one to a section named "History" does not look like a good idea. There is already a detailed section devoted to the history further down in the article. Moreover, the last paragraph of the
2183:
Thank you and I see that now, in the 5th paragraph and 10th occurrence of the term (not counting the title). But might I suggest, as had been my experience today, that many people unfamiliar with or curious for more details of the term will have already googled it or searched WP for it prior to
1299:
Our article says that the Higgs boson is "unverified" and the page edit notice says "Do not say the Higgs boson has been definitively discovered or confirmed." Yet our article has a section titled "Preliminary confirmation of existence and current status" which lists five different ways that the
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It seems to me that, instead of the content in the "Non-technical summary" in the "Overview" sections, and we could reasonably just have the "Overview" section". There is quite a bit of redundancy between the two sections. I'm willing to do this, moving cited sources into the
Overview. Thoughts?
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I'm a physicist with a background in experimental low-energy nuclear physics. Although I'm able to follow most of the lede, parts of it are heavy going for me, and there are parts I don't understand. WP articles are supposed to be understandable to a general audience. The writing in the lede is
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If we work in unitary gauge, Higgs field is a SU(2) doublet (0, phi0), and boson is the excitation on top of phi0. Thus, like other SU(2) doublets ((u,d) (ve,e)) lower components, Higgs boson has weak isospin T3=-1/2. Since it is electrically neutral, from Q=T3+Y/2 we get weak hypercharge Y=+1.
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Its mass, "expected" to be roughly between 100 and 200 GeV. The lower limit is the result of previous experiments that have excluded that the Higgs boson can have a mass lower than 100 GeV (otherwise one would have already seen it). The upper limit is a "trick" to avoid a bad consequence of the
858:
Sorry if this ends up not looking right, I'm new to editing wikipedia. As a person with a strong science background outside of physics, I just wanted to point out that the further applications are something that I think should definitely be in this article. However, the cases sited in the text
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mentions that although popular press (incorrectly) wrote about how "the internet could soon be made obsolete" by the advances of the computing grid, to correct those perceptions CERN put out its own "fact and fiction" articles to clarify the nature of its more humble advances in that area. One
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For the
Standard Model Higgs field, the weak hypercharge is normally taken to be +1 (or +1/2 if one uses the formula Q=T_3+Y_W. This is the value stated in this specific article if you read the section "Technical aspects and mathematical formulation"). There is however a theory called Minimal
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mfb, I'd rather say that the references I gave are not considered suitable by you or Ptrslv72. But anyone looking at our discussions from the beginning would notice that you did not comment on any specific reference I gave. Just saying "there is no suitable reference" is a bit short. Also for
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I've made minor edits to improve readability, and shaved away (some) parts that don't address the section heading. I'm hoping a content expert can build up a better introduction to what symmetry breaking is, the steps through which it was discovered (at least 2 Nobel Prizes awarded for its
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fusing with a black hole releasing hawking radiation), ultimately it reflects the axiomatic fractal(frack|fraction) symmetry(axiom)|break(frack) nature of existence(which im attempting to show by stacking opposing concepts/contradiction loops): heaviest energy fusing with lightest energy,
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elucidation) and the role it has had in keeping the Higgs boson "hidden", despite considerable progress in elementary particle research. Naturally, these are just suggestions and represent nothing more than what I, as a reader, would like to take away after reading this (sub)section.
563:- at least, not any relevant ones (again citing the entire collection of ATLAS and CMS papers is just plain not useful, to the point one might as well treat it as not a source). I haven't seen the 'modified section' you referred to, but it's not the section under dispute in this RfC.
1024:-building on the cake-fuel/truck-machine analogy(you went there, not me), you might also say the higgs boson could potentially be the most abundant energy source in the universe IF we could find a way to exploit it, perhaps by creating and sustaining a black hole then harvesting the
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In Leon
Lederman's new book "Beyond the God Particle", pg 139, it is mentioned that Higgs boson has weak charge -1. It seems to me that this is a fairly important property prescribed to the Higgs boson. Why isn't this property included in the article? Should this property be
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The Higgs mechanism could be shortened, it has its own article. Large parts of the introduction before that are not specific to the Higgs boson either. The experimental search could be shortened or be moved to a separate article, this article can focus on the now measured
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sourced, it just continuously refers to the same source. In the section under discussion, I can't tell which assertions can be justified by the sources, and which can't. Therefore I maintain my opinion: the text is very poorly sourced, and hence its removal is justified.
1341:"... they never yet saw the particle’s telltale decay into 'matter' particles... Now scientists have succeeded in that observation, confirming that the particle whose discovery was announced at CERN on July 4th 2012, is indeed the long-sought-after Higgs boson." –
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Apologies I must have confused the revisions. Nonetheless, the section you linked still goes five paragraphs with many claims that require sourcing (like the ones I mentioned above) that go unsourced. In its current form, I still think the removal is justified.
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Basis of explanation: How about it's an English name, the author most probably benefited from English speaking media (interviewing him, reporting on him). Imagine having to go to Brussels, back in those days when not everyone spoke fluent English. Barbarians.
1332:"That uncertainty has now melted away. This week, physicists gathered in Moriond, Italy announced that additional data from the Large Hadron Collider's 2012 data run now conclusively show that the new boson has a spin of zero, and is thus a Higgs boson." –
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The whole article is extremely daunting. While I appreciate the difficulties of explaining modern particle physics to a general audience, there must be a middle ground between the current article and describing HBs as 'god particles' or 'magic moonbeams'.
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But I do believe that a wikilink to the first occurrence of the term boson is both appropriate and helpful (depression and fertility reduction from wikilink-blue not withstanding :) ) to the general reader who is likely not familiar with the term.
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I don't want to disrupt the work that is being done here, and I understand how hard it is to come up with a good lead for scientific articles that is also comprehensible by general readers. However 2nd sentence in the existing lead bothers me:
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References are not something you need once per x words. They are needed for disputed, unclear or otherwise problematic claims. And your section is full of them, while mathematical parts can closely follow a few references for the whole section.
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First, congrats to all on an excellent article! And apologies in advance to anyone who might feel my edit is not appropriate. I mean no disrespect. And I fully understand that this article is not the place to describe what a boson is.
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I tried to check that I only removed redundant info, but it's always possible that I missed something. I have also done a quick check to make sure that al the wikilinks from the old "overview" are present in the new text. Hope that helps.
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The topic is probably searched for, under both, by now, and it would look strange if for instance the entry for "electromagnetic field" was a topic titled "photon", or the entry for "weak interaction" was just titled "W and Z bosons".
1327:"The Higgs boson is the final piece of the Standard Model – when it was discovered by the CMS and ATLAS experiments in 2012, it was the last particle predicted by the Model to be verified experimentally." – André David, CERN (2015)
490:. The editor who contributed the content went through a lot of time and effort to create it. If suitable references are not found for the statements, then the content could be deleted. from an un-involved editor. Best Regards,
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confusion already shows up with photons, and explaining it here won't help. One thought, maybe not serious, would be a whole article just on quantum particle vs. quantum field. That is, independent of the actual particle/field.
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has converted the non-technical summary table to prose. I've now gone ahead and also merged the scientific impact table into the significance section. Some duplicated info could definitely be cut down in the non-tech summary.
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I trimmed the generic musings on practical applications of fundamental science (as well as a sensationalist and dubiously sourced Hawking story). The sentence about distributed computing was taken almost verbatim from
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130317191649/http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/higgs-boson-discovery-confirmed-cern-large-hadron-collider_n_2874975.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2&pLid=283596
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status. But I think that more concrete wording could be found for the lead, which is going to be all that some nontechnical readers, who just want the simplest definition of a Higgs particle, are going to read.
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Agree with Mfb. This section is a good example of the (somewhat chaotic) growth the article underwent in the days of enthusiasm that followed the Higgs discovery. I am in favor of trimming it. Cheers,
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It's not that it's a difficulty in following what you say, it's that what you say makes no sense on a level similar to "cakes are the opposite of trucks, one gives energy, the other consumes it".
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The results of massive amounts of data produced by the Large Hadron Collider have led to significant advances in distributed and cloud computing, now well established within mainstream services.
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Without reading the above, I just looked at the article. I was about to say that it was fine, except for the second paragraph. Maybe it can stay, but it should not be anywhere near the top.
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I do not have the book and I could not download it so as to know what is exactly written on page 139 but I hope that I answered your question. If not, then please feel free to ask me.
2609:
that name should remain as Higgs boson, as that name already implies excitation of a field. And a separate Higgs field article would overlap too much with this one and even more with
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285:. Though it was not mentioned the consensus argument follows its logic. References are required if material is challenged, and if the refrences are not supplied it may be removed.
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that the current name be kept, for the reasons he gave. I would also oppose splitting the article into separate articles for the boson and field, unless it gets a lot bigger. --
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are also not sure that the top quark behaves exactly as the SM top quark. So what. We still call it "top quark". The top part of the edit warning was outdated in 2013 already. --
787:
I also agree, although I would go with "It is the quantum excitation of the Higgs field..." or something similar. "Particle associated to the excitations" seems a bit roundabout.
581:
in the description of the Rfc. This link shows clearly the section deleted by mfb, which is under consideration here (and again not the section I copied above in this talk page).
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/higgs-boson-discovery-confirmed-cern-large-hadron-collider_n_2874975.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D283596
1766:, I expect that we get a conference note in the next few days, and ideally some news article. Not 5 sigma, but we can add it as "seen" once we have more than the slides. --
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Why has my edit to the higgs mass been reverted? The value used here is outdated. The global average value as of 2020 is 125.10 +/- 0.14 as given in the reference I added
1300:
particle has been validated as a Higgs boson. Not only that, but numerous reliable sources state that the Higgs has been confirmed or verified, including CERN physicists:
1076:, it is so far away from anything remotely reasonable that it is impossible to pin down what exactly would be wrong. Top quarks are heavier than the Higgs, by the way. --
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reliable source. As for the mathematical section, I personally think it's rather technical and hence probably shouldn't be included in the article; on the other hand it
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The page covers both, and while for many years the boson was the more prominent search term (due to media attention), that has largely faded in recent years.
2545:. Also, it seems that this article has links to both. I am not convinced that one well explains the particle vs. field question, but asked in its talk page.
769:" is usually referred to forces as opposed to generic fields. What about "It is the particle associated to the excitations of the Higgs field ..."? Cheers,
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I'm not sure if we need the section at all, apart from the first paragraph. This is not an article about the LHC or fundamental science in general. --
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That paragraph or at least a part of it could be moved further up. The naming part can move down and the experimental search can be shortened. --
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189:, which does look like a reliable source (but I'm not an expert of distributed computing so I wouldn't go to the barricades on that). Cheers,
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An editor reverted a section named "Certification of the new particle as a Higgs boson" added to the page. The section deleted can be found
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That word didn't make sense there, I removed it. That section needs an update anyway, it was written before the Higgs discovery. --
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Physicist Matt Strassler highlighted "considerable" evidence that the new particle is not a pseudoscalar negative parity particle
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I'd say give it another year or so. LHC collected lots of data in 2016, digesting it should significantly increase confidence.
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Off-topic discussion: talk pages are for discussing improvements to articles. Take this to the science refdesk, if anywhere. --
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Has work at CERN included research in distributed or cloud computing that has had an impact on mainstream industry or services?
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spoken about as if it were definitely discovered in 2012. It is no longer a valid argument to say "CERN have been cautious "
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https://web.archive.org/web/20140212152732/http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/spotlight/SpotlightGridFactsAndFiction-en.html
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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There isn't as yet, any point in having two separate pages for the field and boson, but we could at least joint title it.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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the particle as the Higgs boson (i.e. this isn't a WP:FRINGE view). In its current form, I think removal is justified.
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I'd like to ask for citations for this sentence and propose its removal if we are not aware of any. The article on the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130121121537/http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/kaniol/p544/rmp46_p7_higgs_goldstone.pdf
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130121121537/http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/kaniol/p544/rmp46_p7_higgs_goldstone.pdf
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20140501135924/http://www.kcl.ac.uk/nms/depts/physics/news/events/MyLifeasaBoson.pdf
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https://web.archive.org/web/20140501135924/http://www.kcl.ac.uk/nms/depts/physics/news/events/MyLifeasaBoson.pdf
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https://web.archive.org/web/20140501135924/http://www.kcl.ac.uk/nms/depts/physics/news/events/MyLifeasaBoson.pdf
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120707132113/http://www.atlas.ch/news/2012/latest-results-from-higgs-search.html
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Thanks all. Updating some articles is my next todo-item after the remaining press release weblinks are fixed.
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1184:? This article is completely absent of any criticism as to its actual existence. That is a bad sign that the
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ancillary. I think it would be better to actually describe the relation between the particle and the field:
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It would seem that your source confirms the measurement; therefore that user was incorrect to revert it. –
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120704015916/http://lcg-archive.web.cern.ch/lcg-archive/public/overview.htm
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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why the edit notice is there. Any user with template editing rights or account creator can edit it.
1313:"... every alternative option tested has by now been ruled out with a high degree of confidence." –
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RfC: Was the rejection of section "Certification of the new particle as a Higgs boson" justified?
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130926215031/http://www.catholic.org/technology/story.php?id=49808
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Large parts still need rewriting anyway. "If Higgs particle theories are valid" ... uh yeah. --
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edit notice to no longer impose such a strong degree of uncertainty about the Higgs discovery?
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For completeness, three different editors reverted successive incarnations of that section on
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zero". It is the first occurrence of "boson" as type of particle, not as part of the name. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20121110182115/http://lcg-archive.web.cern.ch/lcg-archive/public/
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esoteric subject understandable to general readers. I think this page should be put up for
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1304:"Without a doubt, it is a Higgs boson, but is it the Higgs boson of the Standard Model?" –
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Banedon, the section under consideration in this Rfc is the one for which I have provided
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is also absent of any criticism as to its actual existence. Is that really a bad sign? --
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Fred1810, the problem is not really the sources you provided, but rather the sources you
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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1322:"Beyond any reasonable doubt, it is a Higgs boson." – Nobel Physics Committee (2013)
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I value all responses, please elaborate which part do you have trouble following?
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This article is __very__ long. Is there anything that can be done to shorten it?
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A lot of text from "overview" went away. Not sure if that was fully redundant. --
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Minimal_Supersymmetric_Standard_Model#MSSM_Higgs_Mass
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That link is there already. "In the Standard Model, the Higgs particle is a
1245:. The weak hypercharge is computed according to the formula given in here:
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2475:, and for me those are enough. That is leaving out why we don't have the
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http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/kaniol/p544/rmp46_p7_higgs_goldstone.pdf
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http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/kaniol/p544/rmp46_p7_higgs_goldstone.pdf
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text that I combined contained few citations. More will need to be added.
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Hello all, The issue of the tables containing paragraphs of text has been
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if energy and mass are equal, higgs bosons would be the opposite of light
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of energy whereby gravity acts as a form of magnetism between the two.
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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http://www.kcl.ac.uk/nms/depts/physics/news/events/MyLifeasaBoson.pdf
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http://www.kcl.ac.uk/nms/depts/physics/news/events/MyLifeasaBoson.pdf
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http://www.kcl.ac.uk/nms/depts/physics/news/events/MyLifeasaBoson.pdf
2585:, and will see if anyone replies. I am not up to doing it, though.
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https://pdg.web.cern.ch/pdg/2012/reviews/rpp2012-rev-higgs-boson.pdf
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There is consensus that the removal of the section was justified by
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http://www.atlas.ch/news/2012/latest-results-from-higgs-search.html
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CERN, uses resources contributed by grid projects around the globe.
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We need to change mean lifetime. Check reference. It's not right.
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Model is used in the article but isn't explained. What is this?
748:—a fundamental field first suspected to exist in the 1960s . . .
713:—a fundamental field first suspected to exist in the 1960s . . .
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I know the "Bose" story, that's not the part I was questioning.
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https://pdg.lbl.gov/2020/listings/rpp2020-list-higgs-boson.pdf
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http://lcg-archive.web.cern.ch/lcg-archive/public/overview.htm
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect
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336:. Extensive talk-page discussions of the issue can be found
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I agree with the point you are making, although the term "
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The section you wanted to add however is different. There
2268:(consistent with this required finding for a Higgs boson)
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http://www.atlas.ch/news/2011/status-report-dec-2011.html
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simply not intelligible for laypeople. Not even close.--
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needs some content that general readers can understand.
744:. It is the quantum particle that is the carrier of the
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1411:: What would be necessary to change the page notice? --
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http://www.catholic.org/technology/story.php?id=49808
344:. Additional opinions are obviously welcome. Cheers,
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http://www.pas.rochester.edu/urpas/news/Hagen_030708
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Are there any sources that label the Higgs Boson as
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The following discussion is an archived record of a
2451:Hmm. First, I believe that the current name is the
2036:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1693:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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No further edits should be made to this discussion.
2014:http://lcg-archive.web.cern.ch/lcg-archive/public/
1149:: this entire discussion is off-topic here. See
88:Practical impact of LHC on distributed computing
2022:This message was posted before February 2018.
1679:This message was posted before February 2018.
214:lead is definitely not about history. Cheers,
276:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
8:
509:So far, no one found suitable references. --
92:A sentence in the article currently claims:
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1992:I have just modified one external link on
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2483:. In other cases, we know which ones are
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1247:https://en.wikipedia.org/Weak_hypercharge
2670:lede not readable for a general audience
2677:2603:8000:8900:6E00:D156:AA5E:D00F:414F
1758:bb results at EPS, 3.6 σ significance.
1470:have already been made thanks to Izno.
1116:(dictated by the uncertainty principle)
113:Fiction: The Grid was invented at CERN.
709:. It allows scientists to explore the
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1352:rule out more and more alternatives."
7:
2457:Photon and the electromagnetic field
908:The following discussion is closed.
1188:has taken place on a massive scale.
935:This does not make sense at all. --
427:lots of unsourced claims, apparent
2463:, though. There are redirects for
2425:Rename to "Higgs boson and field"?
834:Non-technical summary and Overview
24:
1996:. Please take a moment to review
1839:. Please take a moment to review
1623:. Please take a moment to review
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1167:The discussion above is closed.
1112:massless quark and lepton fields
670:The discussion above is closed.
29:
2692:You mean the second paragraph?
2473:Introduction to the Higgs field
1915:Corrected formatting/usage for
1510:Converting text tables to prose
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105:example I was able to find is
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996:for quite a few decades now.
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2650:A pedant writes: extra comma
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1980:13:40, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
1757:ATLAS showed updated H-: -->
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102:Worldwide_LHC_Computing_Grid
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2461:Electron and electron field
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2053:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1989:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1832:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1710:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1616:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1233:06:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
1223:weak charge of higgs boson
519:15:01, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
501:22:14, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
479:00:35, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
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2570:is another possibility.--
2344:Section Symmetry breaking
1747:03:06, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
1268:23:45, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
1182:The Emperor's New Clothes
1176:The Emperor's New Clothes
632:09:55, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
606:03:19, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
591:20:39, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
573:16:31, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
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131:02:50, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
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2314:if you wish to do so. –
2310:. Please participate in
2294:Redirects for discussion
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2194:06:22, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
2171:23:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
2141:23:15, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
2116:22:36, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
1777:17:17, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
1169:Please do not modify it.
910:Please do not modify it.
779:16:14, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
760:00:31, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
672:Please do not modify it.
433:original interpretations
292:01:57, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
270:Please do not modify it.
2312:the redirect discussion
2292:"Hugs bison" listed at
1985:External links modified
1828:External links modified
1612:External links modified
1151:wp:talk page guidelines
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2149:Agreed, Thank you, -
1782:Minimal Standard Model
1203:The article about the
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42:of past discussions.
2583:Quantum field theory
2581:I asked in talk for
2563:Quantum field theory
2543:quantum field theory
2507:Agree strongly with
2034:regular verification
1691:regular verification
1040:loop quantum gravity
854:Further Applications
383:, but it sure isn't
301:. Was it justified?
2024:After February 2018
1681:After February 2018
1334:Scientific American
734:elementary particle
699:elementary particle
620:derived conclusions
429:derived conclusions
265:request for comment
2637:Intelligent boy 13
2537:OK, it seems that
2481:electrical fermion
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2095:suggested wikilink
2078:InternetArchiveBot
2029:InternetArchiveBot
1968:InternetArchiveBot
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324:grounds, see also
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1074:not even wrong
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738:Standard Model
730:Higgs particle
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703:Standard Model
695:Higgs particle
680:
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666:
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664:
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561:are no sources
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2655:Sooooo yeah.
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2631:Mean lifetime
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1072:Your text is
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1036:string theory
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1029:process of a
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488:Not justified
486:
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467:
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457:
453:
448:
446:
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438:
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431:and possible
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2634:
2438:
2435:
2431:
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2402:
2399:
2396:
2380:81.107.39.90
2374:— Preceding
2367:
2347:
2322:
2319:
2316:
2305:
2272:— Preceding
2267:
2265:
2262:
2223:
2163:open channel
2162:
2153:
2122:
2106:
2102:
2098:
2076:
2073:
2048:source check
2027:
2021:
2018:
1991:
1988:
1966:
1963:
1943:
1934:
1931:
1834:
1831:
1792:— Preceding
1787:
1785:
1756:
1733:
1730:
1705:source check
1684:
1678:
1675:
1618:
1615:
1595:T.Shafee(Evo
1567:T.Shafee(Evo
1552:T.Shafee(Evo
1540:
1534:
1513:
1373:— Preceding
1350:
1342:
1333:
1298:
1271:
1257:
1250:
1242:
1236:
1226:
1179:
1168:
1146:
1145:
1115:
1111:
920:
916:
907:
864:— Preceding
861:
857:
837:
810:Good article
753:Comments? --
752:
745:
729:
725:
723:
717:
710:
694:
690:
688:
682:
671:
640:— Preceding
615:
560:
525:
487:
424:
412:JonRichfield
384:
380:
370:
360:
296:
288:AlbinoFerret
275:
269:
262:
236:— Preceding
232:
212:
120:
109:which says:
99:
91:
78:
43:
37:
2471:, and even
2469:Higgs Field
2465:Higgs field
2351:Prime Lemur
2240:properties.
1994:Higgs boson
1837:Higgs boson
1798:89.135.87.8
1621:Higgs boson
1526:2.28.156.81
1283:—Preceding
1228:included?--
1123:The5thForce
1044:The5thForce
998:The5thForce
951:The5thForce
922:The5thForce
746:Higgs field
726:Higgs boson
711:Higgs field
691:Higgs boson
36:This is an
2439:Thoughts?
2364:Higgs Mass
2308:Hugs bison
2154:FlightTime
2085:Report bug
1975:Report bug
1786:The name
1742:Report bug
1468:editnotice
1409:User:M.O.X
1315:John Ellis
1306:John Ellis
1031:white hole
994:Lee Smolin
2572:Chetvorno
2513:Chetvorno
2068:this tool
2061:this tool
1958:this tool
1951:this tool
1875:dead link
1725:this tool
1718:this tool
1190:Trilliant
893:The Anome
820:Chetvorno
756:Chetvorno
618:for your
579:this link
437:SPACKlick
425:Justified
79:Archive 7
73:Archive 6
68:Archive 5
60:Archive 1
2485:fermions
2376:unsigned
2274:unsigned
2186:Duedilly
2108:Duedilly
2074:Cheers.—
1964:Cheers.—
1794:unsigned
1776:bb": -->
1731:Cheers.—
1538:contribs
1407:Pinging
1375:unsigned
1343:Discover
1260:Irene000
974:contribs
966:Headbomb
866:unsigned
771:Ptrslv72
654:contribs
646:Fred1810
642:unsigned
624:Ptrslv72
583:Fred1810
546:Fred1810
452:Fred1810
346:Ptrslv72
303:Fred1810
238:unsigned
216:Ptrslv72
191:Ptrslv72
162:Ptrslv72
123:Xiphoris
2615:Dilaton
2568:Quantum
2397:Laundry
2317:Laundry
1998:my edit
1879:tag to
1841:my edit
1752:H-: -->
1625:my edit
1520:Kaldari
1358:Kaldari
1285:undated
1239:LaoChen
1230:LaoChen
978:physics
767:carrier
736:in the
701:in the
598:Banedon
565:Banedon
531:Banedon
395:Banedon
39:archive
2694:Ruslik
2489:bosons
2226:Ergzay
1871:Added
1452:Dukwon
1345:(2014)
1336:(2013)
1237:Hello
732:is an
697:is an
493:Bfpage
385:useful
283:WP:VER
229:Naming
2459:, or
2400:Pizza
2320:Pizza
2127:with
2124:boson
1597:&
1569:&
1554:&
1544:WHOIS
1437:James
1243:field
982:books
381:wrong
16:<
2732:talk
2728:Gah4
2716:talk
2712:Ef80
2699:Zero
2681:talk
2661:talk
2657:Tpth
2641:talk
2619:talk
2607:Gah4
2591:talk
2587:Gah4
2551:talk
2547:Gah4
2529:talk
2525:Gah4
2509:Gah4
2497:talk
2493:Gah4
2487:and
2384:talk
2355:talk
2282:talk
2249:talk
2230:talk
2204:talk
2190:talk
2137:talk
2129:spin
2112:talk
1818:talk
1802:talk
1772:talk
1760:Talk
1599:Evo)
1584:talk
1571:Evo)
1556:Evo)
1532:talk
1498:talk
1476:talk
1456:talk
1417:talk
1399:talk
1383:talk
1362:talk
1279:talk
1264:talk
1213:talk
1194:talk
1159:talk
1155:DVdm
1153:. -
1147:Note
1127:talk
1082:talk
1048:talk
1038:and
1002:talk
970:talk
955:talk
941:talk
926:talk
897:talk
874:talk
845:talk
775:talk
724:The
689:The
679:Lead
650:talk
628:talk
602:talk
587:talk
569:talk
550:talk
535:talk
515:talk
475:talk
456:talk
441:talk
416:talk
399:talk
350:talk
342:here
340:and
338:here
334:here
332:and
330:here
326:here
307:talk
299:here
246:talk
220:talk
195:talk
166:talk
144:talk
127:talk
2479:or
2441:FT2
2372:.
2245:mfb
2200:mfb
2133:mfb
2042:RfC
2012:to
1925:to
1909:to
1899:to
1889:to
1865:to
1855:to
1814:mfb
1768:mfb
1764:PDF
1699:RfC
1669:to
1659:to
1649:to
1639:to
1580:mfb
1518:by
1494:mfb
1428:Mfb
1413:mfb
1395:mfb
1281:)
1209:mfb
1205:sun
1078:mfb
937:mfb
812:or
740:of
728:or
705:of
693:or
511:mfb
471:mfb
361:Yes
318:POV
140:mfb
2734:)
2718:)
2710:--
2683:)
2663:)
2643:)
2621:)
2613:.
2593:)
2553:)
2531:)
2499:)
2491:.
2467:,
2417:)
2414:c̄
2403:03
2386:)
2357:)
2337:)
2334:c̄
2323:03
2284:)
2251:)
2232:)
2206:)
2192:)
2139:)
2114:)
2055:.
2050:}}
2046:{{
1877:}}
1873:{{
1820:)
1804:)
1774:)
1762:,
1753:bb
1712:.
1707:}}
1703:{{
1586:)
1522:.
1500:)
1492:--
1478:)
1458:)
1441:•
1419:)
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1385:)
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1215:)
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1129:)
1084:)
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1004:)
980:/
976:/
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957:)
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928:)
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876:)
847:)
817:--
777:)
656:)
652:•
630:)
604:)
589:)
571:)
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537:)
526:is
517:)
477:)
469:--
458:)
443:)
418:)
401:)
352:)
328:,
322:OR
309:)
267:.
248:)
222:)
197:)
168:)
146:)
129:)
64:←
2730:(
2714:(
2696:_
2679:(
2659:(
2639:(
2617:(
2589:(
2549:(
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2110:(
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2083:(
2070:.
2063:.
1977:)
1973:(
1960:.
1953:.
1941:Y
1816:(
1800:(
1770:(
1744:)
1740:(
1727:.
1720:.
1582:(
1546:)
1541:·
1535:·
1530:(
1496:(
1474:(
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