2856:, Prior to being called Urdu, the language was called Hindi, Hindavi, Hindustani and a gazillion other terms. Even after the term "Urdu" was invented, it was used interchangeably with these words. The modern-day meaning of the word "Urdu" is basically using that language in the Perso-Arabic script. Modern Standard Hindi was developed from the same language by Sanskritising it and writing it in Devanagari script. So using the term "Urdu" in its modern sense to refer to the language before "Urdu" began to be used specifically to refer to the language written in the Perso-Arabic script is anachronistic. Urdu and Hindi are the same language, Urdu is written specifically in the Perso-Arabic script and MS Hindi has a Sanskritised vocabulary and written specifically in Devanagari script. During that time, Urdu and Hindi were synonymous, with the above difference not existing, thus there is no reason why Urdu must be used there; Hindustani being neutral in its implication, should be used.
2831:
legitimate POV in some literature that prefers to use "Urdu" only from the 18th century onward when an elitist literary language emerged that aimed to make it as "refined" (in contemporary eyes) as
Persian by the massive use of learned Perso-Arabic borrowings and dispreferred use of words not felt to be "refined" (including both tatsama and tadbhava Indo-Aryan words, but also words of Perso-Arabic origin); in such a POV (which is also largely followed in Knowledge (XXG) articles), the earlier language is called "Hindustani" or "Hindvi/Hindavi". But note that this just a terminological convention. The language remained the same, only the limits of its high-brow register were extended to levels not seen before (i.e. pre-18th century).
1092:
2932:– That's not an argument, nor is it even relevant. The point was the language that previously went by the names of 'Hindi', 'Hindustani' is now known as "Urdu", and it is the popular name for that language that everyone understands. As I've mentioned, this has already caused confused in the discussion above. Not even Hindi-Urdu speakers know what "Hindustani" is, let alone actually employ or associate with such a name/language, let alone trying to further complicate things by trying to hyperactively replace "Urdu" with "Hindustani " to readers.
3677:-Both sets of variant characters have been used in Devanagari for centuries. In the 20th century, one set was declared the standard and the other fell out of use. Secondly, modification of a few characters or declaring one as standard doesn’t make it a new script. Characters have been modified in the Roman script used for English over time but it’s still the same script. Nun Ghunna was added relatively recently to Urdu (not found in Platts for example) but that doesn’t make it a different script. Same is true for Devanagari.
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Devanagari script will still be called Urdu, then you are completely unaware of what Urdu is. Urdu is
Hindustani in the Perso-Arabic script specifically. Urdu is not a language. Besides the topic history of Hindustani has its own article and the history of the language is mentioned in the history sections of both Hindi and Urdu, not just Urdu.
1823:
2552:). The entire point was that the language which was once, historically, called "Hindi", is now "Urdu", not "Hindustani in the Perso-Arabic script". Urdu was also known as "Hindustani", but not the modern vernacular "Hindi". A layman doesn't know what "Hindustani in the Perso-Arabic script" is, but they will know what "Urdu" is.
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3043:, as a sidenote: I am fully aware that modern-day Urdu and Hindustani are the same language, I never disputed that. However in its modern day sense, Urdu is specifically associated with the Perso-Arabic script and not the language, rather a standardised register in the script. Thus it's usage would be anachronistic. "
3091:– Put aside everything for a moment. The references, modern references, which are referring to the 'Hindustani period' literally call it Urdu. If it says Urdu, then there is absolutely no need to substitute the name with "Hindustani", otherwise all it seems like is you are purposely censoring the name "Urdu".
1649:, and they all show the native names, in the native scripts and with transliterations, in the first sentence, not embedded in a footnote. I have seen an extended footnote when the treatment of the subject's name in other languages goes on at length and becomes a distraction, but that isn't the case here.
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thus the specific use of "Urdu" makes it anachronistic. The name had been since three centuries to refer to the
Hindustani language regardless of script used, until its standardisation in the Perso-Arabic script. This modern usage shouldn't be applied to the historical language to prevent anachronism.
3577:
Devanagari has a long continuous use of around 1000 years. Kaithi, Modi, etc. are related scripts.They are considered Nagari scripts because they all descend from a script called Nagari that was in use during the 1st millennium A.D. Hindustani has been written in
Devanagari and various other scripts
3484:
The name Hindi was previously used for any Indian language, including
Hindustani (from which modern Urdu and modern Hindi emerged). It was also a name for modern Urdu itself during the 18th-19th centuries. As for Hindustani, some chose to write it in Perso-Arabic script, some chose Devanagari. I can
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stated, Urdu and Hindi are not different languages and have never been separate languages. They are the same thing, written in different scripts (with MS Hindi having more
Sanskrit words it its vocabulary). This is the modern meaning of Urdu before which both had the same meaning. Using the term Urdu
2624:
I figured out how to mention Ghalib in a way that actually fits the context. I've added "For example, poet Mirza Ghalib, in his work Qādir Nāma, refers to the language as "Hindi"." In other words, making the point directly, rather than listing two lines of prose in
Devanagari and English, digressing
2358:
Making the same argument over and over after the flaw in it (that this article is not about the language that, back then, was referred to by the same name) has already been pointed out to you multiple times by multiple people is not how one gains consensus. It does have the merit of being a waste of
3138:
If you understand that
Hindustani is the same as Urdu, then keep it as Urdu – because that is what is "specifically" being referred to as here, and ambiguous, and clearly it only seems to be you who wants to avoid using it, when everybody else is fine with. Your point about it being 'anachronistic'
2502:
now refers to the post-partition language written in Perso-Arabic while Hindi now refers to the post-partition language developed in
Devanagari. Both Hindi and Urdu are old names for what is now called Hindustani. However, I've no objection to the removal of that quote if it could create confusion.
2438:
on 27 May 2023), as this section was actually included to clearly ambiguity of the names (ie. "Hindi" an old name for Urdu vs Hindi – the modern vernacular). However this section, which was evidently about Urdu, subtly became 'Hindustani', turned into 'Hindustani' – the ancestor of 'Hindi', yet the
3435:
Urdu as a language name appeared in the 1770s which is when the modern register of Urdu was developing. In addition, Modern Hindi and Urdu share the same grammar, while the script used for
Hindustani has been Devanagari, Perso-Arabic, and several others. So what you are saying is ungrammatical and
3187:
My point was that there are references calling the language Hindi, Hindustani, as well as a variety of other names. Hindustani is not same as Urdu. Urdu in its modern sense refers specifically to the Hindustani language written in the Perso-Arabic script. This distinction didn't exist earlier and
2737:
Urdu (and Hindi) is now used to refer to the last stage of the development of Hindustani, i.e., post-partition of India. The language now known as Urdu (as well as the language now known as Hindi), was formed only in twentieth century. The prior stage is referred to as Hindustani, while the stage
1824:
https://books.google.com.bd/books?id=jVx6EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA139&dq=hindi+writing+in.nastaliq&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiX5ITz9PGGAxVBSWwGHS5_AFgQ6AF6BAgOEAM#v=onepage&q=hindi%20writing%20in.nastaliq&f=false
3555:
Here is the thing there was no unified devaNagree prior to Fort William of British East India company. Earlier Devanagre was known to Kashi Nagree script. There were various types of Nagree scripts. In Bihar, Eastern UP local tongue was written in Kaithi. In Maharastra local tongue was for Modi
2830:
This is with all due respect not just POV but patent nonsense. The modern standard form of Hindi was deliberately developed in the 19th century, whereas Urdu has a continuous history that long predates the time when it first came to be known as "Urdu", basically back to Amir Khusrau. There is a
3269:
wish to retain and better serve your own POV. You should understand that Urdu and Hindi neither are, nor ever have been "languages". Even Austronesier agreed with that. They are the standard registers of the same language (which is called Hindustani). And if you think that "Urdu" if written in
2938:– Because "Hindustani" has multiple meanings, one of them is the modern sense which the Hindi-Urdu cluster. The other is the historical name for Urdu. The latter is now obsolete. Using Hindustani implies that the text is talking about something other than Urdu, which is not the case. Even the
3341:
In addition to being ungrammatical it also doesn’t make sense. Hindustani has had various related meanings over time. Hindustani has meant: a) the Khariboli lingua franca, b) Urdu, and c) modern Hindi. This section is discussing the development of Hindustani/Khariboli lingua franca to Hindi.
3485:
point out many examples of Hindustani written in Devanagari. Language and script were not closely intertwined in pre-modern times. One of the sources you cited says: “Hindavi/Hindustani, written in Perso-Arabic script, came to be called Urdu, and when written in Devnagari, it became Hindi.”
3573:
What you have written is demonstrably false. Urdu already emerged as a register by the 18th century and Hindi by the 19th century. This was all before Alama Iqbal. The nomenclature had not fully settled into place. His might be the sole example of Hindi used as a name for Urdu in the 20th
2593:
Apologies, I shouldn't have really pinged you, I thought you had perhaps removed it because of my discussion. I'm not disputing your removal of the quote, I agree with it, it wasn't relevant here. My issue is that Urdu is being subtly replaced with "Hindustani in the Perso-Arabic script".
2442:
Even if you were to use the quotes here, why say "in the Nastaliq script", and then proceed to include the quote in transliteration? That implies that 1. the quote is relevant to Modern Hindi, and 2. Modern Hindi is/was written in the "Nastaliq script", neither of which is true.
2571:
and a paragraph about the scholarly work of John Gilchrist was wedged a piece of trivia about a guy once writing down down the equivalents in one language for another language's words for "mongoose", "peacock", and "ptarmigan". It doesn't exactly fit the context or the flow.
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2721:– Let's not go there, because the matter of the fact is that "Urdu" has been removed several times (for which I've included revs), not added, and instead replaced with a blocky phrase like "Hindustani in the Perso-Arabic script", just to avoid even mentioning it.
2625:
into the phrase about Nastaliq without actually presenting the original Nastaliq text, and using boldfacing in hopes that the reader would notice that that one word that would otherwise have been completely obscured by the entirely of it was the actual point.
3694:
We can't talk about one thing while changing the name we use for it constantly depending on which decade or century we're referring to at the moment or the usage of each respective historical person we're referencing. There are even many peoples/languages we
1979:
developed as a literary alternative of Urdu which saw its roots in the literary tradition of the sister languages of Khariboli (such as Awadhi and Braj) and which from the beginning was designed to be written in a Brahmic script (Devanagari, also Kaithi).
3265:, just because something has been incorrect for a while, doesn't mean that it's automatically correct now. What you are basically trying to say here is that you shall not allow the addition of any sources that oppose your POV, but only allow the sources
2335:
Below I wrote about making the same argument over and over, which you're continuing to do. It's time for me to move on to the corresponding point of continuing to argue with the same person who fails to recognize the flaws in their arguments. I'm done.
2710:
era", the language that is now known as Urdu, was known as "Hindi", "Hindustani", "Delhvi", "Lahori" whatever. They are not different. Just because the name "Hindustani" now refers to something else (ie. Hindi-Urdu cluster), does not negate that Urdu,
2058:
Means I have to agree with you by all means even if you haven't even presented one single secondary source which says that Modern Standard Hindi was written in Urdu, nor a secondary source which says that Ghalib's work were written in "Hindi"? No.
3640:
term to identify his language and Pandit Tulsi Dwivedi, a contemporary of Samrat Akbar used Braj and Awadhi terms to identify his tongue. But today Amir khusroo has become "Urdu" poet (which he did not heard) and Pandit Tulsi Dwivedi has become
1975:. The language commonly known as "Urdu" since the 18th century, was known by several other names before, including "Hindi". But that's not Hindi as understood since the 19th century. This article is about the modern standard language that was
1876:
Urdu means royal camp, court of Delhi. Initially Urdu aka Royal camp was run by persian tongue. Slowly Hindi replaced the persian. After 1837, Hindi became the only Urdu Zuban as the use of Persian come to an end. hence hindi was called Urdu
3556:
script. So Bhojpuri written in Kaithi, Awadhi written in kashi nagree, Marathi written in Modi script. So the lingua franca Hindustani/Hindi/Hindwi/Dihlawi of Khadi-boli (Urdu) was never written in any other scripts other than Perso-Arabic.
1839:
Reiterating what Austronesier said below, but indented: That name may have been used at the time for the variety in which Ghalib wrote, but that isn't what the term is used to mean today, and this article is about the variety that the term
2566:
I removed it altogether, as I noted in my edit summary, when I finally actually read the quote and saw that it made no sense for it to be there, even before getting into squabbles over terminology and scripts. Between the sentence
2182:
ago was considered "Hindi" was often written in Arabic script. I think all of us here agree with that. But we understand, and have explained to you, while you continue to ignore, that the people who were using that script spoke a
3890:
2827:
Urdu (and Hindi) is now used to refer to the last stage of the development of Hindustani, i.e., post-partition of India. The language now known as Urdu (as well as the language now known as Hindi), was formed only in twentieth
3632:
Any language or script even is a result of CONTINUATION of it's historic past. No dout Hindustani/Urdu has the same. But the thing is we should not attribute any term to the past when that term was not used in that respective
3624:
Devanagari of British era and Devanagari of Modern India are not same at all. Recently "झ" letter has been changed. In 1950s अ, आ, ण, ख letters have been borrowed from Siddhant lipi to Replace similar letter of Sharda lipi in
3703:
2837:
Finally, hardly any linguist calls Hindi–Urdu "Hindustani" nowadays. As a cover term for the structural linguistic identity of Hindi and Urdu, it is obsolescent and artificially kept alive through Knowledge (XXG).
3880:
2274:
that the Nastaliq writer were using is the one that today is called "Urdu", which was and is a subset of Hindustani. What today is called Hindi is also a subset of Hindustani, one that's written in Devanagari.
3236:
Hindustani, Hindi etc. Not just "Hindustani in the Perso-Arab script". There is a reason why Hindustani history typically comes under "Urdu", and it is the same reason why it was mentioned that writers like
3089:
This is the modern meaning of Urdu before which both had the same meaning. Using the term Urdu in its modern sense to refer to its historical usage would be anachronistic and a gross muddling up of history.
3549:
That is around 1900. Even in 1862 Mirza Ghalib says his tongue is Hindi. In 1903 Allama iqbal have said his tongue is Hindi. So Hindustani, Hindi and Urdu were synonymous prior to register Urdu and Hindi.
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3618:
So Hindi/Hindustani/Hindwi existed long before Sanskritized pilot project Hindi of Fort William. What I am trying to say that Urdu under the name Hindi/Hindustani/Hindwi predated to Neo Brahmanic Hindi.
3006:
seems to me to be a mess. It is about the language while the articles Urdu and Hindi are about its two official standard varities written in two different scripts and one employing more Sanskrit words.
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The name "Urdu" for what you call the 'Hindustani language' has been attested at least in the 18th century. That is itself disproves you. You have pushed your views on all three articles
2608:
It's OK, I wasn't taking you the wrong way, I was just piggy-backing on what you'd written to explain in the ongoing discussion what I'd previous consigned to a series of edit summaries.
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3002:" I never referred to MS Hindi. I was talking about the name 'Hindi' and 'Urdu' being used for Hindustani prior to the development of their special meanings. Lastly, nothing about the
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talk about using the names given to them by the peoples/speakers themselves because we don't know what those names were. The article should consistenly use the terminology of today.
2685:
Boats were boats, castles were castles, dinosaurs were dinosaurs long before those names for them existed. If someone spoke or wrote in what today is called Urdu, then it was Urdu.
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1584:, then you or I can fix it at Urdu as well. And I am not trying to hide the Devanagari script. It is there in the infobox. Per convention and there is no need to clutter the lead.
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No, it isn't different. Hindustani is at the level of generality you need to be at to be able to claim that it has been written in both Nastaliq and Devanagari. It has multiple
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Because Hindustani and Urdu are different. Hindi and Urdu refered to the same language prior to the Hindi-Urdu controversy in the twentieth century, which is now refered to as
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Moreover modern Indian scholarship unanimously agreed Hindi was written in nastaliq style of perso-Arabic system. Like Omkar nath kaul. Reference have already mentioned. @
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Because Hindi was one of the earlier names for Urdu, like Hindustani. Hindi, in that context, doesn't actually refer to the modern, Sanskritanised register of Hindustani.
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Post-independence regulators certainly have had some impact in vocabulary building and vocabulary preferences, but haven't turned Urdu and Hindi into different languages.
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known as Hindustani and anyone speaking "Hindustani" or "Hindi" historically was in fact speaking what is now known as "Urdu", not "Hindustani in the Perso-Arab script".
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I agree it’s a clumsy phrasing and is little helpful. For your linked comment, I agree with parts of it. I can get into the details of that if it becomes relevant here.
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A convention that you made up bhai. Btw it's not cluttered. Almost every language article shows the native script without hiding it. Don't change things unnecessarily.
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Regarding your proposed edits, three users have already opposed your changes so you don’t have a consensus. But to address your comments for hopefully the last time:
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is a bit superficial, considering the name itself has been used for at least three centuries now. No one uses the name "Hindustani" or "Hindi" to refer to "Urdu".
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page should be created. Because Not only in Ghalib, but also Emperor Aurangzeb himself declared his tongue is Hindvi, Emperor Shah Alam said his tongue is Hindi.
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The existing references are sufficient, and they label it "Urdu", not "Hindustani". Now you wish to bring other references to justify censoring the name "Urdu"?
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You're confusing "script used historically for what's called 'Hindi' today", which is false, with "script used for something that historically was called 'Hindi
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It's important to note, as I've skimmed through the edit history of this section, several quotes by renowned Urdu writers had been included here initially (
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A quote from Mirza Ghalib shouldn't even be used here. It's deceptive to say "in the Nastaliq script", when actually it's not Hindi in Nastaliq, it's Urdu.
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2657:. Using these terms (either 'Hindi' or 'Urdu') to refer to the pre-controversy language is incorrect and anachronistic and appears a bit POV-pushy to me.
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Alright, maybe you're correct. I had thought that as it is a convention on most articles, it would also be a convention on language-related articles.
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If you take the bible translation of 1842 in Hindustani language, then it is easy to conclude Hindustani register was written only in Perso-Arabic.
3680:-Here is an enlightening article for you to read about the history of Hindustani/Hindavi in various scripts including Devanagari and Perso-Arabic.
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I can provide references calling it "Hindustani" or even "Hindi". There's no reason for you to assume that all references unanimously use "Urdu".
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3665:-Hindi/Hindustani/Hindvi (the lingua franca from which modern Urdu and modern Hindi emerged) has been used since roughly the 12th-13th centuries.
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1747:///From the 13th century until ::the end of the 18th century; the ::language now known as Urdu was ::called Hindi, Hindavi, ::Hindustani, ///
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continued calling their language "Hindi", "Hindustani", despite this new standard that was set, called Modern Hindi, despite speaking that
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3598:////What you have written is demonstrably false. Urdu already emerged as a register by the 18th century and Hindi by the 19th century.////
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I don't want to be repetetive, so I just link to an earlier comment of mine (in reaction to a different claim, but also applicable here):
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Do you have a source for this? The article body doesn't say this; without that, it would be inappropriate to have it in the infobox.
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First of all, Nastaʿlīq isn't a script, it's a calligraphic style of the Perso-Arabic script. Also, you need to distinguish between
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3546:///“Hindavi/Hindustani, written in Perso-Arabic script, came to be called Urdu, and when written in Devnagari, it became Hindi.”///
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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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2963:, associated with 'Modern Hindi', and not "Urdu", when actually it's the opposite. Not only that, the reference uses the name "
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even before it referred to as Old Hindi. Any other usage of both Hindi and Urdu will be anachronistic as well as a POV push.
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was known by multiple names, including Hindustani, Urdu, Hindavi and Hindi. Today, that language and stage is referred to as
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Yea. You are refering about Hindustani (which comprises multiple dialects and scripts) and it's modern registers after 1947.
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used for today. Just as we aren't going to write here about turkeys in Anatolia even though Turks call the turkey "hindi".
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I understand the quote is under the "Hindustani" section, but this Hindustani section is found under the "Hindi" article.
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were to write a novel in English but with using the Devanagari script, that wouldn't justify asserting in the article on
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Modern Hindi is the result of throwing out Arabic and Persian vocabularies from Original Hindi/Hindavi/Hindustani/Urdu.
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The first Quran translation of Urdu was done around 1828. But that translation mentions that it was being done in Hindi.
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Not even Hindi-Urdu speakers know what "Hindustani" is, let alone actually employ or associate with such a name/language
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that English is/has been written using Devanagari. It wouldn't suffice for you to show one example of someone doing it.
3674:-Let’s stick to accepted nomenclature instead of coining new terms (“Neo Brahmanic Hindi”) based on your personal whim.
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You appear to be discussing Hindustani as a synonym for Urdu which doesn’t make sense in the context of this article.
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3671:-Modern Hindi (which was also variously referred to as Hindi/Hindustani/Hindvi) has been used since the 19th century.
3668:-Modern Urdu (which was also variously referred to as Hindi/Hindustani/Hindvi) has been used since the 18th century.
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If mirza galib said he is writing in Hindi in nastaliq then we have no right today to say that Galib is a Urdu poet!
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1858:////Just as we aren't going to write here about turkeys in Anatolia even though Turks call the turkey "hindi".////
1720:///Major Hindustani writers continued to refer to their tongue as Hindi or Hindavi till the early of 19th century.
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And yes, at all the points where you have attempted to censor the name "Urdu", the corresponding references have
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in its modern sense to refer to its historical usage would be anachronistic and a gross muddling up of history. "
1777:. The article about the greater language that encompasses both of what today are known as "Hindi" and "Urdu" is
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Major Hindustani writers continued to refer to their tongue as Hindi or Hindavi till the early of 19th century
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Major Hindustani writers continued to refer to their tongue as Hindi or Hindavi till the early of 19th century
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that English "is written in" or "has been written in" Devanagari. An acceptable source would have to actually
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Yes, we get it. Five hundred seven-nine thousand scholars all agree that a family of language varieties that
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Sir, My last change does not contradict the agreed narrative. Then how my particular change is not sensed?
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implies that the "Hindustani writers", such as Mirza Ghalib, associated with 'Modern Hindi', and not "Urdu"
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Urdu in its modern sense refers specifically to the Hindustani language written in the Perso-Arabic script
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As Urdu was identified as Hindi, Hindavi, Hindustani simultaneously till the starting of the 20th century
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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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which is used to write modern Urdu, but often called his language "Hindi"; one of his works was titled
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When you wrote that, it looked like you were starting to get the point, but then you lost it. But we
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So it is clear that Hindi is historically written in Nastaliq style of Perso-Arabic writing system.
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Hindi means people of Hindiyyah/Hindia/India which was an official name of Mughal empire in Arabic.
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So it is quite clear that,Hindi ::was written in Nastaliq till the ::beginning of the 20th century.
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But the title of the page is about Hindi, not Modern Standered Hindi. So this info must be added.
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Again, you are not here to dictate the references, which call it Urdu. So leave it as Urdu, not
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thus there is no reason why Urdu must be used there; Hindustani being neutral in its implication
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Then why the page have shown the infos of kaithi, mahajani and landa as historic script of use?
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Turks now call turkey turkiye. Before that during initial ottoman time turkey was called "Rome".
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Hindustani" has multiple meanings, one of them is the modern sense which the Hindi-Urdu cluster
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Now what will be your position if anyone says that Urdu was written in devanagari before 1900s.
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3552:///As for Hindustani, some chose to write it in Perso-Arabic script, some chose Devanagari///
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So we can surely say that Hindi was written in nastaliq till the starting of 20th century.
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Indeed, this convention you refer to doesn't seem to exist, PadFood2008. I just looked at
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poet (which he did not claim). So the whole modern narrative is factually ahistorical.
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According to own identification of Emperor Shah Alam II, that tongue was Hindi, not
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article doesn't make it clear, what it's actually supposed to be about, it's a mess.
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The Hindi that this article is about is the language variety that's called "Hindi"
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3662:-Urdu as a language name emerged around the 1770s, first used by the poet Mushafi.
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Any other usage of both Hindi and Urdu will be anachronistic as well as a POV push
3051:) refers to the single language that is officially called "Urdu" and "MS Hindi".
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but I don't get why we're censoring the word "Urdu" and replacing it with
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You are requested to procede for consensus as you have mentioned earlier.
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During 1780, Hindi was being used as official tongue along with Persian.
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3783:"Urdu Language: The Origin, Histories and Integration in Indian Culture"
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Aside from that, this has become repetitive. It might be a good idea to
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Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles in Society and social sciences
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So the language Hindi and oHindustani happened to be the same tongue.
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But that Hindustani is different from what we are discussing about.
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your own, as well as everyone else's, time, if that's your goal.
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As Mirza Galib says in his Qādir Nāma written in Nastaliq script:
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This has clearly caused confusion, hence the discussion above.
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Yea that is why Nastaliq now happens to be historical script.
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So the conclusion you've provided is not actually 100% right.
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But that's not Hindi as understood since the 19th century.///
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is not an exonym either but it does show its native script.
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person to have an issue with that. It is not "anachronism".
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drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass
2993:" that's a complete made-up assumption of yours. Also as @
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Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the
3819:"Urdu: The revival of the language of romance and poetry"
3047:" — it's unclear what you mean here. Hindustani (in the
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called Hindi, and this article isn't about that variety.
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procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
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In 18th century Urdu register has emerged on not by on
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a group of literatures which was written mentioning as
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let me provide a secondary source about Ghalib's Hindi.
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On 28 July 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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B-Class Indian literature articles of High-importance
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B-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences
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did Hindustani evolved into two standard registers —
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Well, MSH does not deny the historic legacy of Hindi.
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Persian speaking world knew that empire as Hindustan.
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B-Class Himachal Pradesh articles of High-importance
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Geography articles with topics of unclear notability
609:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
504:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Nevla is rasu (mongoose) and Taus is mor (peacock),
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4096:B-Class Madhya Pradesh articles of High-importance
1735:Kabk is uttered as Chakor (Ptarmigan) in Hindi////
1437:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Spoken Knowledge (XXG)
4136:B-Class Uttar Pradesh articles of High-importance
1883:Technically Before 1780, Urdu means Persian only.
1561:your last argument doesn't even hold any weight.
3996:B-Class Chhattisgarh articles of High-importance
3861:Knowledge (XXG) articles that use Indian English
2237:style of Perso-Arabic system, is different from
46:for general discussion of the article's subject.
4156:B-Class Uttarakhand articles of High-importance
2959:implies that the "Hindustani writers", such as
2035:Galib's Qadir Nama was written in 1862. So ....
820:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs of places
3976:B-Class Chandigarh articles of High-importance
764:Articles missing geocoordinate data by country
4116:B-Class Rajasthan articles of High-importance
4076:B-Class Jharkhand articles of High-importance
3386:. This same language was started to refer as
8:
4036:B-Class Haryana articles of High-importance
2546:"Hindustani in the the Perso-Arabic script"
2302:Your mentioned articles are not about that
1553:Why are you so stubborn in hiding देवनागरी?
1440:Template:WikiProject Spoken Knowledge (XXG)
4171:High-importance Indian literature articles
2309:That is why we need a separate article on
2142:Even Allama iqbal have said his tongue is
1750:This portion surely meet that ::criterion.
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678:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
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4016:B-Class Delhi articles of High-importance
3956:B-Class Bihar articles of High-importance
2947:For instance (bearing in mind the is the
3941:B-Class India articles of Top-importance
2139:Meer taqi meer said his tongue is Hindi.
1359:as a high quality India-related article.
4091:High-importance Madhya Pradesh articles
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3413:So Hindustani/Hindavi/Hindi was called
2930:Even after the term "Urdu" was invented
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750:Geographic related deletion discussions
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4181:WikiProject Indian literature articles
4131:High-importance Uttar Pradesh articles
3876:Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles
3609:name. Look at Tarikh e Gharibi of 1757
3578:besides Perso-Arabic. This is a fact.
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3404:Zuban-e Urdu-e mualla-e-Shahjahanabad
3396:Shahr-e-Urdu-e-Mualla-e-Shahjahanabad
721:Unknown-importance geography articles
623:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Geography
518:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Languages
341:Language and literature good articles
314:, this should not be changed without
7:
4151:High-importance Uttarakhand articles
2146:in the first decade of 20th century.
1911:" is not what this article's about.
1415:This article is within the scope of
967:This article is within the scope of
778:Geography articles needing infoboxes
736:Geography articles needing attention
707:Tag related article talk pages with
603:This article is within the scope of
498:This article is within the scope of
4101:WikiProject Madhya Pradesh articles
3971:High-importance Chandigarh articles
1717:This page already held this portion
441:It is of interest to the following
36:for discussing improvements to the
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4141:WikiProject Uttar Pradesh articles
4111:High-importance Rajasthan articles
4071:High-importance Jharkhand articles
3921:High-importance geography articles
1418:WikiProject Spoken Knowledge (XXG)
1373:This article was last assessed in
14:
4046:B-Class Himachal Pradesh articles
4001:WikiProject Chhattisgarh articles
3394:, Shah Alam II popularised it in
1688:script. Can we add this infobox.
989:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject India
660:WikiProject Geography To-do list:
63:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
4161:WikiProject Uttarakhand articles
4031:High-importance Haryana articles
3906:Top-importance language articles
3636:Like: Amir khusroo himself used
1729:कब्क को हिन्दी में कहते हैं चकोर
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58:Click here to start a new topic.
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3981:WikiProject Chandigarh articles
2187:of that language that today is
2000:"Tarikh e gharabi تاریخِ غاریبی
1744:If it does not satisfy you then
1443:Spoken Knowledge (XXG) articles
1318:the Indian literature workgroup
1009:This article has been rated as
643:This article has been rated as
538:This article has been rated as
4186:India portal selected articles
4126:B-Class Uttar Pradesh articles
4121:WikiProject Rajasthan articles
4081:WikiProject Jharkhand articles
4011:High-importance Delhi articles
3951:High-importance Bihar articles
3926:WikiProject Geography articles
3911:WikiProject Languages articles
3886:B-Class level-4 vital articles
3506:instead of just two different
3146:used "Urdu" not "Hindustani".
2719:appears a bit POV-pushy to me.
2536:The quote has been removed by
1997:Hindi was written in Nastaliq.
792:Knowledge (XXG) requested maps
626:Template:WikiProject Geography
521:Template:WikiProject Languages
345:nominee, but did not meet the
1:
3986:B-Class Chhattisgarh articles
3936:Top-importance India articles
3615:Hindi main keh kar samjhave."
2645:by linguists. Only after the
2006:Hindi main keh kar samjhave."
1509:contentious topics procedures
1431:and see a list of open tasks.
1315:This article is supported by
1291:This article is supported by
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1243:This article is supported by
1219:This article is supported by
1195:This article is supported by
1171:This article is supported by
1147:This article is supported by
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1099:This article is supported by
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1051:This article is supported by
717:Unassessed geography articles
617:and see a list of open tasks.
512:and see a list of open tasks.
55:Put new text under old text.
4146:B-Class Uttarakhand articles
4041:WikiProject Haryana articles
3866:Former good article nominees
3821:. 2023-07-28. Archived from
3803:. 2024-06-04. Archived from
3785:. 2024-07-26. Archived from
3461:as we solely identify today.
3417:long before Modern register
2808:– Gatekeeping, might I add.
2490:, The language prior to the
2233:which was solely written on
1174:WikiProject Himachal Pradesh
3966:B-Class Chandigarh articles
3716:21:28, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
3690:06:29, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
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3588:12:48, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
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3534:12:51, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
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3495:10:06, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
3480:09:43, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
3446:08:17, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
3436:doesn’t make sense at all.
3431:09:51, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
1864:Why Hindi was called Hindi?
1770:Mirza Ghalib wrote in Urdu.
4207:
4191:WikiProject India articles
4106:B-Class Rajasthan articles
4066:B-Class Jharkhand articles
4021:WikiProject Delhi articles
3961:WikiProject Bihar articles
3916:B-Class geography articles
1726:नेवला रासू है और ताऊस मोर,
1497:purpose of Knowledge (XXG)
1353:, which means that it was
1222:WikiProject Madhya Pradesh
1015:project's importance scale
992:Template:WikiProject India
649:project's importance scale
544:project's importance scale
353:. Editors may also seek a
3901:B-Class language articles
3612:-logo ko jab khul batave,
3356:12:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
3337:11:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
3322:10:40, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
2635:23:35, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
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2369:19:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2346:02:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2329:02:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2292:But I am referring about
2285:02:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2262:01:58, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2223:01:36, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2174:01:28, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2124:19:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2110:18:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2069:17:49, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2054:16:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2019:16:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1990:15:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1959:19:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
1935:16:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
1921:19:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1899:17:15, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1854:16:54, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1835:15:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1806:15:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1766:13:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1713:12:54, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1698:11:58, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
1511:before editing this page.
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22:Skip to table of contents
4026:B-Class Haryana articles
3294:16:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3257:15:33, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
3204:09:16, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
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2695:16:42, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
2681:13:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
2395:Omkar Nath Koul (2008).
2229:We are discussing about
2003:Logo ko jab khul batave,
1756:We can surely add this.
1670:02:27, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
1659:22:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
1605:17:31, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
1591:16:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
1575:14:50, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
1505:normal editorial process
1102:WikiProject Chhattisgarh
757:Geographical coordinates
21:
3379:and the script is like
2203:page should be created.
1492:as a contentious topic.
1294:WikiProject Uttarakhand
1026:Associated task forces:
4006:B-Class Delhi articles
3946:B-Class Bihar articles
3931:B-Class India articles
3871:B-Class vital articles
3327:It was ungrammatical.
2888:, I've not edited the
2647:Hindi-Urdu controversy
2492:Hindi-Urdu controversy
2439:Urdu quotes remained.
1680:Proposal for consensus
1501:standards of behaviour
1434:Spoken Knowledge (XXG)
1398:Spoken Knowledge (XXG)
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1078:WikiProject Chandigarh
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88:avoid personal attacks
3510:for the same thing. –
2470:on 15th August 2023.
1684:Hindi was written in
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1246:WikiProject Rajasthan
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501:WikiProject Languages
435:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
428:level-4 vital article
347:good article criteria
236:Auto-archiving period
113:Neutral point of view
3392:Emperor of Hindostan
3372:had a grammar like
2971:. So why the push?
2398:Modern Hindi Grammar
2097:'Perfume of Hindi').
393:Good article nominee
312:relevant style guide
308:varieties of English
118:No original research
3754:was referred to as
3004:Hindustani language
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2890:Hindustani language
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2211:Hindustani language
2195:Then in that case,
2128:Then in that case,
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1779:Hindustani language
1150:WikiProject Haryana
310:. According to the
3454:Here is the thing.
2420:Mirza Ghalib quote
2401:. Dunwoody. p. 3.
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1559:PadFoot2008
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3770:References
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3366:Hindustani
3329:Largoplazo
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2610:Largoplazo
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2574:Largoplazo
2540:Largoplazo
2496:Hindustani
2383:References
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2304:Hindi ہندی
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2163:Largoplazo
1913:Largoplazo
1846:Largoplazo
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3263:نعم البدل
3249:نعم البدل
3148:نعم البدل
3093:نعم البدل
3041:نعم البدل
2987:نعم البدل
2973:نعم البدل
2951:article):
2892:article.
2886:نعم البدل
2810:نعم البدل
2793:نعم البدل
2723:نعم البدل
2596:نعم البدل
2554:نعم البدل
2488:نعم البدل
2472:نعم البدل
2448:نعم البدل
2268:varieties
2157:نعم البدل
2116:نعم البدل
1951:نعم البدل
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2828:century.
2706:In the "
2235:Nastaliq
1686:Nastaliq
1482:Pakistan
1356:selected
300:analysed
199:Archives
69:get help
42:This is
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3638:Hindavi
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3374:Modern
3370:Hindavi
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1877:Zuban.
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3840:(PDF)
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3697:can't
3643:Hindi
3607:Hindi
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2775:Hindi
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2296:Hindi
2231:Hindi
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