Talk:Hindustani - Knowledge

1890:). Let us accept his categories for now. Obviously, then, "Hindustani" is not formalized highbrow. It is mostly not formalized middlebrow (FM), as most Hindi-speakers will have a hard time comprehending an Urdu newspaper written in Roman or Devanagari. Is it casual middlebrow (CM)? Is it casual lowbrow (CL). In my view the lingua franca is an artificial construct, probaly the language heard when CMers of H/U speak to CLers of U/H. As far as I'm aware, there is no corpus of CM or CL (beyond a rudimentary one mentioned somewhere in that link above.) No book has been written on "Hindustani grammar," or "Hindustani phonology" since 1947, beyond the inevitable exception, that is, that proves the rule. What then are we doing in these "Hindustani"-related articles? If the grammar and phonology of Hindi and Urdu are the same, then obviously Hindi-Urdu phonology and Hindi-Urdu grammar would be far more transparent titles. As for 2676:

find elsewhere rather than hoarding it in my private study notes). But a vowel shift in a kinship term only gets you as far as "accent" not language, at most that would indicate different dialects. Kids in the USA say and write "mom", whereas in English that's "mum", and there's also variants like "mummy". But much as i joke that "mom" is not "English" (i'm Australian, but we pretty much speak and spell UK English), realistically i think people in the USA are speaking the same language as me. (The only way i have heard it said is chah-chah, with the same vowel twice, from a Pakistani feminist who grew up in Saudi Arabia and is currently living in Canada, so possibly not the most typical accent... and in reference to a very controversial picture book, which i think is adorable, but which i'm reluctant to link in case it causes a storm.)

1963:

increasingly renders the registers clearly distinguishable, and also increasingly mutually unintelligible. So its a V-shaped continuum, with a very narrow tip at the bottom. (This is quite the opposite of the "inverted" V of English in most areas, where coexisting dialects/regiolects/communalects merge into a single acrolect.) "Hindi" and "Urdu" are the two register continuum branches, while "Hindustani" in the narrow sense is the bottom level. Additionally, there was the historical pre-partition vision of turning the largely uniform bottom into a third, neutral branch "Hindustani" with a full functional acrolect, a vision that is still invoked by some Indians, especially in the face of "Partition 2.0".

1801:; they intergrade, and reliable sources do not all agree on how to define them, yet we some how manage to present a coherent encyclopedic picture for our readers, including of the real-world lack of consensus about them.) The fact that current linguistics journal articles are more interested in publishing about the continuum/subfamily tells us nothing about the name of the lingua franca. To the extent that the lingua franca and/or the continuum/subfamily have forked or bi-concretized into two standardized variants, we already have stand-alone articles on them at 1501:, "For some other Muslim intellectuals, however, Hindustani stood for a linguistic variety rival to their own Urdu as it allegedly contained a disproportionate percentage of what they regarded as “Hindi/Hindu” elements. To sum up, in the early decades of the 20th century, the word Hindustan and its derived adjective were contested semantic-fields." To this I would like to add: "The only difference, in the early 21st-century, is that most linguists of South Asia, consider "Hindustani," when applied to a language, to be also obsolete." See 182: 164: 430:'Hindustan' was and still remains important in the Indian subcontinent as a popular word for the land 'India'. If intention of Knowledge is to be an importance knowledge resouce, Hindustan should be an independent article, in my humble opinion. But info in it should be NPOV, give past history in one para or two and should admit that the present usage of the word may die away with time for various reasons, which may also be mentioned. So the last word is 22: 138: 78: 53: 64: 2114: 88: 782: 246: 228: 1515: 2385:

above instance "a father's younger brother")—whose spelling and pronunciation can be different and the differences begin to show in the conversations of children. Are these mutually intelligible? They probably are among language communities that have some contact with each other, and probably not among those that don't. But we can't make a

1957:

Although it is off-topic here, let me muse a bit about this. Actually, the best term to capture the whole contemporary complex is not "dialect continuum", because of relatively little horizontal variation on a quite large area, but rather a "two-branched register continuum" based on two communalects.

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though (no, I don't mean nonsense- and besmirching-wise, that's inimitable anyway); "Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani" is not English, and at least in common usage, "Hindustani" is not an adjective that freely combines with any noun. Most of our readers will not understand what a "Hindustani heart" refers

2599:

I think it should be called "Hindi and Urdu" or some variation of that "Hindi and Urdu spoken language," "similarities between Hindi and Urdu", or "relationship between Hindi and Urdu". The term "Hindustani" belongs in the intro, since it's commonly used, but not the title. I think the best term to

2384:

There has to be some overall (intellectual) fairness here. I can't very well keep citing the best modern sources to make the point that it is not just in the literary or formal registers that Urdu and Hindi are a little different, that there are ordinary everyday words—such as kinship terms (in the

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is incorrect; it even corroborates what I stated above, stating "ćaććā or ćaćā, the more com. forms". I had already mentioned to you that there is more than one form of the word with its usage depending on locality. As such, the term, along with the references, has been added to the article. Cheers,

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I do not know Hindi as well as many Indians, and I don't know Urdu as well as most Pakistanis, but I likely know both better than most) are helpless in the face of linguists, who I respect for their wide knowledge of linguistics, but who, if I may say so, are generalizing these particular languages,

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show that the use of the term as a name for that language has been on the wane for more than half a century, so even the status of that article as the primary topic for "Hindustani language" is not out of the question: I woudn't be surprised if most current uses of the language name are in reference

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Cha-cha is one of only of only a dozen words of Urdu that i know so far, so i can't say anything about the language as a whole (i came here because i'm trying to learn Urdu and it's history, and i've ended up contributing a lot because i figure when i can't find something here i should share what i

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used as a noun, of course they won't usually (mis)understand it to be anything but the language (or one of the languages). But my point was that the term is most commonly used as an adjective and not a noun, and in those cases it won't refer to the language very often. Of course, nominal uses count

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per nom. The previous RM on this had some rather confused arguments, so let's avoid them this time. There's one encyclopedic topic here, the language. "Hindustani people" isn't an ethnicity, but just means "people from Hindustan" (i.e., it's like "Texans" or "people from Salamanca"), and isn't a

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over this minute difference? Will a Hindi speaker not understand both sentences? Will an Urdu speaker not understand both sentences? User:Fowler&fowler, this is an issue that is no longer up for debate; your position with respect to the Hindustani language that is representative of South Asian

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for the language (or dialect continuum) is really Hindi–Urdu (or Hindi/Urdu, Urdu–Hindi, etc.), that's a different discussion, and from past history of several move-related threads at the language page, I am doubtful that move would result. It's not actually clear that these are the same topic at

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For 150 years, from 1800 to 1947, the expression "Hindustani language" was used for a simplified version of Hindi-Urdu promoted by the British, in which all British civil servants in India were required to take an exam. It is this "Hindustani" that the Muslim intellectual is disparaging in Naim's

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to confirm this. The pronounciation of certain words varies depending on what locality is in; ultimately though, they are the same word and are derived in the same way. As such, the Hindi-Urdu kinship terms article is correct, though the second spelling should certainly be added. In most parts of

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true, becoming apparent upon listening to children fairly quickly. The vocabulary of kinship names, for example: Abbu, Ammi/Ammu, Baji, Khala, Chacha, ... is somewhat different in Urdu. The last one, for example, is not written or pronounced Chächa (चाचा, چاچا) by Urdu speakers, as stated in the

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what is that? All it has is a left-adjusted guard of honor of the two scripts. I know a few linguists of South Asia. Neither they, nor any SAsian (CLer or CMer) I've ever heard, have said, "I speak Hindustani," or asked, "Do you speak Hindustani?" So, summing up, a gamut of Hindustani articles

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That's irrelevant. It's not a common usage in English. When people say "Hindustani", they almost always mean the language. When they mean the music, they qualify it as "Hindustani music", etc. When someone types just "Hindustani" into the search box, they're looking for the language and should be

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mentioned elsewhere that he can distinguish between Urdu and Hindi even when kids are talking). Going up the register continuum all the way to the acrolects (Modern Standard Urdu and Modern Standard Hindi), the choice of vocabulary and pronunciation of certain sounds (based on "target acrolect")

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gets no visitors, at least none that have the kind of knowledge my interlocutors do here. I see this as a general trend. I offer good reasons cited to good sources. Whether or not I make any edits, I'm snowed under with scrapings from the bottom of the barrel, if I can mix my metaphors here a

1991:

Thanks for the overview. I think that does give us a reasonably clear idea where to go with this. That's kind of almost a draft of a lead. :-) As for the socio-linguistic situation, I'm tempted to say "This reminds me of ...", but each quasi-analogy I'm coming up with actually fails to be

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Dear Maquahuitl, I see that this 'merge/keep' discussion is ON in quite a few articles, in fact in too many India/Pakistan related topics, unfortunately. My intention is to have Knowledge as an easily accessible knowledge resource on all topics of relevance to past and present, but in an NPOV

1522:. In other words, approximately only 1 in 4 are books published after the British left. If you examine those 8, 380 results, you will see that many, of not most, are still references to the British years, or to Hindustani spoken in Suriname, the Caribbean, Fiji, or Mauritius. See 2389:

page to be some kind of set theoretic union of Hindi and Urdu, and to explain away the differences (which are no longer ones of literary registers) to be those of religions, not languages. Look, I understand that this is not the right forum for my concerns, but the right forum,

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Hindustani is a vast subject and needs to have its own article. The result would be a utterly cluttered article. Hindustan is a land while Hindustani is a language / culture. It would be like merging China (land) with everything Chinese (language, culture etc.). Not practical.

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and even more so, generalizing the cultures that spawned these languages. I'm sure my interlocutors are going to say, "No, no, Hindustani is not Hindi-Urdu, but colloquial Hindi-Urdu heard in the bazaar on a sunny Saturday afternoon in November ... " Yeah, right.

1886:. Anyway, I too am worrying about where, in what linguistic category, this lingua franca fits, lies, or sits. In the hierarchies of the influential Indian sociolinguist Ashok Kelkar, Hindi-Urdu is not a dialect continuum of first language speakers; rather, it is 1920:

I suppose I can go along with all that. It still leaves open the question of how we properly cover the lingua franca and the continuum/subfamily (or whatever it really is), and under what terms. I will consider myself out-argued on the main RM question, though.

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But people aren't going to misunderstand the single word 'Hindustani' to mean the food or the music. You have more of a point about the Caribbean and Fijian languages, though those are so named because they are identified with the primary Hindistani language. —

1519: 1546:(My shoe is Japani, My pants are Inglistani, On my head I wear a red Roosi hat, but ... still ... my heart is Hindustani), heard not just by millions in India, but also in the Soviet Union, the Middle East, Africa, and Southeast Asia, which won the actor 991:. It's not a question of language vs. people (there's no such thing as "Hindustani people"), but of languages (several of them) vs. general adjective vs. music style. Most uses of the term "Hindustani" are probably instances of the adjective referring to 2307:

which says on p 154 (viewable on Amazon, but not on Google Books) :"8. cǝca-zad – 'uncle born'. Your cǝca is your father's younger brother. There are many words for 'uncle' – one each for each kind. You'll find them listed in Part II of this

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is one of two major types of Indian classical music, and the term regularly comes up in various phrases like "Hindustani raga" or "Hindustani khayal". Even if we restrict ourselves to the language, the extensive ongoing discussions at

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That was my bad. WikiProjects are not as a rule notified of move requests; however, relisters often make those notifications, and I did not do so in this case. Thank you for picking up and running with the ball that I dropped.

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says "I listen to Hindustani" to mean the music. We have hardly any articles speaking of "Hindustani people". (That's what hat notes are for.) People do, however, commonly speak of the Hindustani language. By your argument,

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There is already an article on Hindustani language, and one on the classical music. I simply don't understand what is the point in this separate article about Hindustani. In fact I am even skeptical about an article on the

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dialect, while "Hindi–Urdu" appears to refer to an actual dialect continuum of first-language speakers or even a language subfamily, depending on which sources you are looking at. Attempting to equte these appears to be a

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Okay, I will add that to this request. The RMCD bot will then place its notification tag at the top of the language article. That notification should be in place for at least seven days before this request can be closed.

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As for your evidence, why are you citing English language newspapers? The rich deracinated South Asians who use a little English here and there in their Urdu are to be found everywhere, even in the Urdu heartland of

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be, when the context seems to require it, but this is much less frequently. It's easy to find the word used alone in reference to the language, but is rare to find it used alone in reference to music, cuisine, etc.

1970:'s description of deliberate "dumbing-down" in "inter-branch" communication is btw a very insteresting topic, I hope they will unearth some scholarly descriptions of the socilinguistics of Hindi–Urdu interaction.) 1342:

You appear to be the first in this survey to argue for a primary redirect. The nom has stated that this page should be moved to make way for a rename of the language article to the base name. That has been done.

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Which one of these sentences is Hindi? Which one of these sentences is Urdu? Does the pronunciation of one word make Hindi and Urdu completely two different languages and do we need to split an article about

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I just read through this discussion in an effort to close this request, and I find myself with two options. 1) I can procedurally close this as a malformed request, because as Amakuru pointed out, this page

2419:; your political positions will not dictate how Knowledge articles will be written and citing a different pronunciation of one word to split an article is ridiculous (even still, I have provided the most 1424:

to move both, let's stick to one thing at a time. The main thing is that when someone enters 'Hindustani' they arrive at the language article rather than the dab page. Whether the language article is at

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for more in deciding topic structure - after all, articles are normally titled using nouns and readers probably preferentially use nouns when searching - but adjectives are used nonetheless so they have

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is just a redirect to 'Hindustan'. Thus the language article functions as the primary topic. Also, although it's a bit difficult to compare, because both uses usually are worded simply as 'Hindustani',

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Who goes first in Hindi Urdu is a bit fraught but Hindi first is justified by both number of speakers and alphabetical order. (I tend to call it Urdu-Hindi, but the reverse order is more justifiable.)

1526:(The first one is in fact a reference to Gilchrist, 1796). All this does nothing but lend credence to Michael Fisher's pronouncement that "Hindustani" applied to a language in India is "obsolete." 2573:, certainly. I used these simple links and explanations in the above paragraph to debunk the political argument being made and to provide observers with a brief primer regarding the subject. The 1554:, and garnered on his death a person letter from Mrs Gorbachev to his widow reminiscing about the song. Do you really think he meant, "My heart is an obsolete dumbed down colloquial Hindi-Urdu?" 1542:(that is the primary meaning in the Oxford English Dictionary, and the Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary). In that last meaning it features in the lyrics of the most famous of Bollywood songs 465:

language, away from any nationalistic or other negative ramifications. How to achieve this, I leave to wiser contributors than me. What ever consensus is reached, should be honoured, I feel.

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I have shown you above a page from Naim's famous book, used around the world, and reprinted by India's National Council for the Promotion of the Urdu Language. It says "cacā" for Uncle

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shows that 'Hindustani language' is far more common than 'Hindustani people'. Thus 'Hindustani' should redirect to 'Hindustani language' (with a hat note to the dab page, of course). —

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this request has been relisted a 2nd time because another page move was added to the request on this date. This request should not be closed until at least seven days after this date.

2870: 772:, we single out two uses of the adjective 'Hindustani' for mention: the ethnic and the linguistic. However, for only one of these, the linguistic one, do we bother with an article ( 2577:

contains an entire section called "Linguistic definition of Hindustani (Hindi-Urdu)" that is filled with academic sources that buttress the same. I hope this helps. With regards,

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this vote doesn't make much sense - disambiguation pages don't have "(disambiguation)" in the name if there is no primary topic, they reside at the base name. For example

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that the Britons use to describe the same thing when most other colloquial language is the same. Let us pretend for a moment that we are in an alternate reality and that

1843:'s comment. Even solely in the linguistic sense, "Hindustani" is ambiguous, and beyond this there is of course Hindustani music as the main contester for also being the 2060:

didn't exactly say children speak Hindi and Urdu differently; he said I (F&f) can tell the differences between Hindi and Urdu even in children's speech. Well that

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I don't see anything malformed with the request: it's arguing that the language is the primary topic for "Hindustani" and if successful, the dab page will be moved to

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wasn't being moved too. So, sure, let's move both (and maybe it was late when I responded); we can always move the language article back afterwards. But if it's not

2085:—across the tracks—are also kids who call their father's younger brother, and by implication, all older men چچا Chɘcha. Hear evidence at 3:49, 4:54, and 5:49 in 1740:, then – without sarcastic nonsense besmirching other editors and their "high wisdom" in a "sad sad saga" that does not actually exist. What there is, is previous 1380:

To me, that means that the nom has changed their position and rather than redirect this page, move the language page to this title as the primary topic (per

1977:

in the talk page there with challenging arguments (ranging from partially absurd to highly conclusive, but always powerful); but that's a different story. –

2885: 2670:"Please feel free to join the discussion at Talk:Hindustani language. The discussion is stuck and also bludgeoned, a fresh voice will always be welcome." 2279:

In addition I have cited two more books, one by David Matthews, who taught Urdu at SOAS, London. Here are two more books, as well as Google Translate:

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For those who say, "Well, the name of the language is just "Hindustani," not "Hindustani language," I say: "Hindustani" is an adjective, can apply to

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by India's National Council for Promotion of Urdu Language, New Delhi, 2013. On page 33, it has chachaa (in the Urdu spelling I have given above.)

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little. So, like I've already pleaded, there has to be some sense of fair play on Knowledge; otherwise, what is the point of these discussions?

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common usage in English. Other adjectival uses (for music, cuisine, etc.) are naturally disambiguated in English ("Hindustani music", etc.).

2880: 2865: 2301: 2191: 2755:.... so there would need to be very compelling reasons for this to be an exception, and I can't see that there are. Otherwise, per F&F. 2033:, children do not speak Hindi and Urdu differently; if they did, native Urdu speaking children wouldn't prefer to watch Hindi cartoons (see 2122:

South Asia, though the word for market is spelled as بازار, it is actually pronounced as if it were بزار. I hope this helps. With regards,

1192:), in which case this request will have to stay open at least another seven days. Those are the two options, so let us know your thoughts. 268: 253: 233: 2234: 2034: 497:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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61 articles have been published which mention the word "Hindustani", but not "Hindi-Urdu," "music," "Caribbean," "Surinami," "Fijian"

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are completely two different words with different derivations as you claim (rather than different pronunciations of the same word

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that F&f doesn't like the outcome of. This RM is not a place to relitigate that. While that move still represents consensus,

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Per John, languages have standardised titles and this fits into that, especially when we have other topics related to the term.

2351: 2347: 1518:(click on "Tool" to see number of results). If you restrict the search to before 1947, when the British left India, you get 2160: 2416: 2109:

User:Fowler&fowler, the word for uncle has two different pronounciations chāchā (चाचा, چاچا) and chachā (चचा, چچا) in

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Anyway, if you want evidence, here it is: in the 21st-century, in Google Scholar among articles in Linguistics there are

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Currently, we call the whole V-shaped complex "Hindustani language" in a broad sweep here in WP, which is contested by (

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is popularly a reference to the language and many reliable sources refer it as 'Hindustani' than 'Hindustani language'.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

2258:): Platts, John T. (John Thompson). A dictionary of Urdu, classical Hindi, and English. London: W. H. Allen & Co., 2041:). I can confirm this as a native speaker with ancestry from both India and Pakistan. I hope this helps. With regards, 1765: 1582:(in fact, in their even higher wisdom, they already have the latter redirecting to the former), they want to redirect 1322: 707:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

111: 101: 58: 2451:) and then consider the following sentence, which in English, translates to "I am going to the store with my uncle": 1590:. This is a sad, sad, saga. The people such as I who know the two languages at a reasonable level of functioning ( 2552:) are not the kind of material we expect to see here. And btw, this is off-topic, and belongs to our discussion in 2401: 2219: 2099: 1901: 1657: 1601: 1535: 2206: 1683: 1465: 1407: 1358: 1330: 1312: 1265: 1207: 861: 831: 488: 434:! Further, Hindustani should be an independent article and it should concentrate on the 'language' of this name. 2698: 2645: 2574: 2553: 2501: 2484: 2386: 2066: 1001: 470: 439: 258: 373:

by itself has separate aspects- nationality, music, language, etc. All should be discussed under one article.

1793:, though it is possible to cover them at the same article, if written clearly. (I'm actually reminded of the 1367:

A primary redirect is precisely what the nominator was arguing in his nomination (see its last sentence). –

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then would just be a one line article. If that is being done then there is no point in having that article.

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scholars prefer "Hindi-Urdu" to "Hindustani!' But Wikipedians in their high wisdom do not want to redirect

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This discussion has already attained a certain depth. Can we agree to stick to RS, more sepcifically to

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native speakers don't usually call it Hindustani, including when speaking in fluent articulate English.

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At the same DSAL University of Chicago web site from which you have cited above, it say Platts is (see

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on page 35. Matthews taught Urdu at SOAS for 40 years, retiring as professor of Urdu. He was awarded

2094: 1974: 1967: 1959: 1896: 1848: 1706: 1652: 1596: 1333:. I don't think extending this RM to include a proposal to move the language article is a good idea. – 2350:

You can hear the pronunciation on the audio icon: it is chəchā. Whereas English (uncle) to Hindi is

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It seems the most diplomatic and unbiased since whether they count as one language is controversial.

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What are the chances that kids growing up hearing such songs in the public square, in this case on

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as far as I recall, Hindustani more specifically refers to a (shared) ancestor or the language(s)?

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A New Course in Urdu and Spoken Hindi for Learners in Britain: An Outline Grammar and Common Usage

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It gives a neater page URL than a hyphen or slash would if we called it Hindi-Urdu or Urdu/Hindi

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communal politics is not supported by a single editor on the Hindustani language talk page (see

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to show that this is a pronunciation variation). It would be like having a separate article for

1709:. There is hardly anything left for me to add to what has already been said by them. regards.-- 2798: 2760: 2702: 2681: 2666: 2649: 2627: 2570: 2557: 2502:

consensus of academics describes Hindi and Urdu as standardized registers of the same language

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Yes, that was the idea, this page to be moved so the language article could be moved here. —

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The names Hindi and Urdu are far more recognisable to most English speakers than Hindustani.

2556:(I am myself to blame too for discussing here trivia only peripherally related to the RM). – 2509: 2371: 2359: 1995: 1952: 1924: 1873: 1812: 1781:

all; "Hindustani" appears to refer to a specific and perhaps somewhat artificial or a least

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relevance here. Enough, in my opinion, to neutralise any claims for primary topic status. –

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Yes, that was the idea, this page to be moved so the language article could be moved here.

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A book by Ralph Russell, professor of Urdu at SOAS before Matthews (and noted earlier by

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The basilects are virtually identical, although minimal communalectal differences exist (

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have been written, many more gamuts than Kelkar's. I'm very preplexed by these gamuts.

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per Google. If the language is primary however it should be under just "Hindustani" per

1551: 311: 2648:. The discussion is stuck and also bludgeoned, a fresh voice will always be welcome. – 2854: 2819: 2379: 1785: 1769: 1381: 1233: 965: 948: 603: 355: 1701:). My own understanding of the words and opinion matches with the comments made by 1568:

425 articles that use "Hindi-Urdu" but not "Hindustani," or "music," "Caribbean, ...

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Thank you for your concise comments. Please feel free to join the discussion at

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

527: 393: 354:, as that article has linguistic aspects that deserve separate consideration. 194: 83: 2201:

by the Government of Pakistan. He was the keynote speaker at a conference on

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I thought i already had? or did i go on link adventure and end up only here?

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Well, it's basically the same as what Kelkar writes (cited above by F&f

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But the language is just as naturally disambiguated as the other topics. –

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Well, I referred to the discussion about "Hindustani" vs. "Hindi–Urdu" in

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It is not a dictionary of "Hindustani," and, besides, it is 135 years old.

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text indicates that the common usage in Indian English is the demonym. --

2090: 2082: 1088: 2701:. I know you had commented about the wrong caption of the Naskh image. – 1566:. In that same 21-century, among articles in same Lingistics there are 2145:

I'm afraid that is not correct, Anupam. Neither source is reliable.

1084: 197:-related articles. For more information, please visit the Project page. 2500:); cherry-picking sources with walls of text to prove a point when a 2163:

that paternal uncle and paternal aunt are chachaa and chachii (c=ch).

1752:

RM should not attempt to second-guess it. The proposal here to move

1678: 1460: 1402: 1353: 1307: 1260: 1202: 856: 826: 245: 227: 109:-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the 2233:

User:Fowler&fowler, sorry but it is unreasonable to argue that

2827: 2802: 2764: 2731: 2710: 2685: 2657: 2631: 2581: 2565: 2532: 2406: 2242: 2224: 2126: 2104: 2074: 2045: 2025: 2008: 1986: 1937: 1906: 1864: 1825: 1727: 1686: 1662: 1631: 1606: 1468: 1442: 1410: 1371: 1361: 1337: 1315: 1291: 1268: 1210: 1157: 1134: 1108: 1071: 1050: 1032: 1017: 983: 956: 935: 909: 900: 864: 833: 730: 659: 643: 632: 611: 586: 567: 545: 521: 474: 458: 443: 421: 404: 381: 363: 341: 319: 106: 2336:āp kī duā cāhiē bilkul ṭhīk chal rahā hai ("It's going just fine 2093:, are going to be speaking the same Urdu as those in Exhibit C? 2016:), just without the rather arbitrary discrete reference points. – 1514:

quote. A Google books search of "Hindustani language" brings up

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User:Fowler&fowler, linguists consider Hindi and Urdu to be

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Finally, consider Google translate: English (Uncle) to Urdu

2273:'s scholarly contributions to Urdu language and literature." 136: 1180:

unless there is a primary topic titled with the base name,

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No indication of primary topic. Music, language, people of

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It sounds like Fowler&fowler should propose a move of

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A disambiguation which must reflect as such in the title.

1776:. If F&f or you want to re-make a case that the real 2508:

and focus your efforts elsewhere. Since you have pinged

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to be retargeted to the article about the language as a

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

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Ruth Laila Schmidt, Prof of Urdu, University of Oslo:

271:, where you can join the project or contribute to the 193:, which aims to improve the quality and status of all 2835:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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And below that it says, "This site honors Professor

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Good to know that, however my comment still stands.

995:. The musical sense should not be ruled out either: 2548:? Op-eds, Youtube videos (sorry, this also goes to 2528:so that they can understand what is going on here. 1570:What does that tell you? That by a ratio 425/61== 501:. No further edits should be made to this section. 2600:use in the page name is "Hindi and Urdu" because. 1416:You were saying the request was malformed because 683:. No further edits should be made to this section. 1746:Talk:Hindustani language/Archive 2#Requested move 1091:. The question asked here, therefore, is whether 261:pages on Knowledge. If you wish to help, you can 2575:talk page of the Hindustani (Hindi-Urdu) article 2431:simply because Americans prefer to use the word 2171:Urdu For All: An Introduction to the Urdu Script 251:This disambiguation page is within the scope of 187:This disambiguation page is within the scope of 105:, which aims to improve Knowledge's coverage of 99:This disambiguation page is within the scope of 1530:(Please do not reply in between my paragraphs) 1447:Okay, point taken. And thank you for clarifying 598:, no indication of primary topic criteria, and 2871:Disambig-Class India articles of NA-importance 2184:Complete Urdu (Learn Urdu with Teach Yourself) 2181:Matthews, David; Dalvi, Mohamed Kasim (2015), 1852:to. A Google scholar search only yields 6 hits 1388:a primary redirect and then you are the first 145:This disambiguation page was last assessed in 1392:to argue for it. We'll see how it turns out. 8: 2504:is not helpful. I suggest that you drop the 1558:(Please do not reply between my paragraphs) 1509:(Please do not reply between my paragraphs) 257:, an attempt to structure and organize all 19: 1992:directly analogous in one way or another. 1433:is secondary (and I don't really care). — 222: 158: 47: 2520:, I am going to share with them the same 1643:Why was this page move not advertised at 267:attached to this talk page, or visit the 32:does not require a rating on Knowledge's 224: 160: 49: 2478:Maiṉ cháchá ke sát dukán já rahá hooṉ. 2455:Maiṉ chachá ke sát dukán já rahá hooṉ. 2337: 2333: 1377: 715:, after extended time for discussion. 1376:Yes, then the nom stated just above: 650:are at the wrong location as well. — 7: 2785:with a hatnote, but not to renaming 1538:, Hindustani cooking, the people of 506:The result of the move request was: 281:Knowledge:WikiProject Disambiguation 2187:, Hodder & Stoughton, pp. 35–, 1888:"a full gamut of styles" (see here) 1649:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Pakistan 284:Template:WikiProject Disambiguation 38:It is of interest to the following 2777:To be clear, I'm fine with making 2081::) ; but then in the same town of 14: 2886:NA-importance South Asia articles 2715:I wholeheartedly agree with your 2896:WikiProject Disambiguation pages 244: 226: 203:Knowledge:WikiProject South Asia 180: 162: 86: 76: 62: 51: 20: 2747:At the simplest level, we have 2526:others have found to be helpful 2425:American English business terms 792:) 04:43, 16 January 2020 (UTC) 206:Template:WikiProject South Asia 2546:peer-reviewed academic sources 2429:British English business terms 808:) 13:09, 27 January 2020 (UTC) 690:Requested move 16 January 2020 1: 2861:Disambig-Class India articles 2291:Russell, Ralph (April 2001), 1993: 1922: 1810: 1616: 1292:23:51, 29 February 2020 (UTC) 1269:23:39, 29 February 2020 (UTC) 1211:23:18, 29 February 2020 (UTC) 1051:13:28, 22 February 2020 (UTC) 1033:07:06, 22 February 2020 (UTC) 920: 885: 422:11:24, 4 September 2008 (UTC) 405:09:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC) 2881:NA-Class South Asia articles 2866:NA-importance India articles 2316:Schmidt, Ruth Laila (2005), 1250:– pinging involved editors. 1135:15:09, 27 January 2020 (UTC) 1109:13:09, 27 January 2020 (UTC) 1072:13:13, 21 January 2020 (UTC) 1018:17:45, 16 January 2020 (UTC) 984:09:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC) 957:08:20, 16 January 2020 (UTC) 910:13:20, 21 January 2020 (UTC) 901:06:05, 16 January 2020 (UTC) 660:19:06, 11 January 2013 (UTC) 633:17:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC) 612:13:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC) 587:01:03, 11 January 2013 (UTC) 568:23:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC) 546:19:30, 10 January 2013 (UTC) 522:02:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC) 475:21:42, 31 October 2008 (UTC) 459:10:10, 27 October 2008 (UTC) 444:16:54, 26 October 2008 (UTC) 2113:Hindi and Urdu; please see 1766:Hindustani (disambiguation) 1323:Hindustani (disambiguation) 1178:Hindustani (disambiguation) 742:Hindustani (disambiguation) 533:Hindustani (disambiguation) 382:05:08, 28 August 2008 (UTC) 364:18:59, 27 August 2008 (UTC) 121:Knowledge:WikiProject India 2912: 2876:WikiProject India articles 2319:Urdu: An Essential Grammar 1847:. I wouldn't go as far as 1612: 1536:Hindustani classical music 731:02:32, 14 March 2020 (UTC) 254:WikiProject Disambiguation 124:Template:WikiProject India 2828:19:01, 6 March 2020 (UTC) 2803:03:37, 7 March 2020 (UTC) 2765:15:27, 6 March 2020 (UTC) 2732:16:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2719:with respect to accents, 2711:16:06, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2686:15:53, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2658:15:00, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2632:14:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC) 2582:14:46, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2566:14:39, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2533:14:35, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2407:04:15, 9 March 2020 (UTC) 2243:14:52, 8 March 2020 (UTC) 2225:05:56, 7 March 2020 (UTC) 2207:Aligarh Muslim University 2127:23:43, 6 March 2020 (UTC) 2105:22:24, 6 March 2020 (UTC) 2046:16:50, 3 March 2020 (UTC) 2026:19:41, 2 March 2020 (UTC) 2009:19:16, 2 March 2020 (UTC) 1987:19:01, 2 March 2020 (UTC) 1938:17:25, 2 March 2020 (UTC) 1907:20:13, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1880:that page move discussion 1865:10:08, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1826:06:38, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1768:is entirely sound, under 1728:08:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1687:05:44, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1663:04:13, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1632:06:38, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1607:03:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1469:15:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC) 1443:03:30, 7 March 2020 (UTC) 1411:03:08, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1372:01:14, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1362:01:11, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1338:01:04, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1316:00:57, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 1158:21:13, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 936:06:05, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 865:01:01, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 834:00:57, 1 March 2020 (UTC) 342:04:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC) 239: 175: 144: 71: 46: 2842:Please do not modify it. 2699:Talk:Hindustani language 2646:Talk:Hindustani language 2554:Talk:Hindustani language 2485:Hindi-Urdu kinship terms 2392:Hindustani kinship terms 2387:Hindustani kinship terms 2067:Hindustani kinship terms 1002:Talk:Hindustani language 704:Please do not modify it. 676:Please do not modify it. 494:Please do not modify it. 320:10:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC) 2169:(Not available online) 1764:disambiguation page to 947:. I support the move. - 287:Disambiguation articles 1892:Hindustani orthography 1882:. I was away from WP 1707:User:Fowler&fowler 1037:Yeah, when people see 626:are all Hindustani. -- 190:WikiProject South Asia 141: 2322:, Routledge, p. 300, 1803:Modern Standard Hindi 1795:Ulster Scots dialects 1544:Mere Joota Hai Japani 140: 2340:, with your prayer.) 1807:Modern Standard Urdu 1611:I've addressed this 1503:here; expand the box 1007:Caribbean Hindustani 713:No consensus to move 2891:South Asia articles 2787:Hindustani language 2783:Hindustani language 2332:, which says: "bas 2069:, but چچا Chɘcha. 1754:Hindustani language 1734:Hindustani language 1584:Hindustani language 1576:Hindustani language 1431:Hindustani language 1418:Hindustani language 1186:Hindustani language 1093:Hindustani language 774:Hindustani language 759:Hindustani language 753:Hindustani language 352:Hindustani language 331:Hindustani language 209:South Asia articles 30:disambiguation page 2522:introductory video 2354:pronounced chācha. 2235:Platt's Dictionary 1878:I wasn't aware of 1799:Mid-Ulster English 1697:(coming here from 1331:WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT 577:directed there. — 142: 34:content assessment 2667:User:Austronesier 2571:User:Austronesier 2550:Fowler&fowler 2398:Fowler&fowler 2303:978-0-7286-0085-0 2265: 2216:Fowler&fowler 2193:978-1-4736-0257-1 2157:Introductory Urdu 2096:Fowler&fowler 2031:User:Austronesier 1975:Fowler&fowler 1968:Fowler&fowler 1960:Fowler&fowler 1898:Fowler&fowler 1849:Fowler&fowler 1689: 1654:Fowler&fowler 1598:Fowler&fowler 1471: 1413: 1390:within the survey 1364: 1318: 1271: 1213: 868: 867: 836: 809: 778:Hindustani people 768:– In our article 520: 303: 302: 299: 298: 295: 294: 221: 220: 217: 216: 157: 156: 153: 152: 102:WikiProject India 2903: 2844: 2749:English language 2727:. Kind regards, 2725:reliable sources 2696: 2643: 2543: 2510:User:SMcCandlish 2421:reliable sources 2404: 2399: 2383: 2331: 2306: 2263: 2253: 2222: 2217: 2196: 2102: 2097: 2056: 2007: 1956: 1936: 1904: 1899: 1877: 1824: 1725: 1722: 1716: 1685: 1681: 1674: 1660: 1655: 1630: 1604: 1599: 1467: 1463: 1456: 1409: 1405: 1398: 1360: 1356: 1349: 1314: 1310: 1303: 1267: 1263: 1256: 1249: 1209: 1205: 1198: 1154: 1147: 1082: 997:Hindustani music 980: 973: 934: 899: 863: 859: 852: 842: 829: 822: 810: 793: 747:Either redirect 744: 723: 706: 678: 630: 535: 517: 515: 496: 456: 419: 403: 401: 396: 379: 339: 325:Merge with both 289: 288: 285: 282: 279: 266: 248: 241: 240: 230: 223: 211: 210: 207: 204: 201: 184: 177: 176: 166: 159: 129: 128: 125: 122: 119: 96: 91: 90: 89: 80: 73: 72: 67: 66: 65: 55: 48: 25: 24: 16: 2911: 2910: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2840: 2753:French language 2690: 2637: 2537: 2402: 2397: 2357: 2329: 2315: 2304: 2290: 2247: 2220: 2215: 2199:Sitara-e-Imtiaz 2194: 2180: 2100: 2095: 2050: 1950: 1915: 1913:Arbitrary break 1902: 1897: 1871: 1845:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC 1837:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC 1774:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC 1720: 1714: 1711: 1679: 1672: 1658: 1653: 1602: 1597: 1461: 1454: 1403: 1396: 1354: 1347: 1308: 1301: 1261: 1254: 1219: 1203: 1196: 1152: 1145: 1097:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC 1076: 978: 971: 877: 857: 850: 827: 820: 740: 717: 702: 692: 687: 674: 628: 554:it means about 531: 511: 508:page not moved. 492: 482: 452: 415: 399: 394: 392: 375: 335: 308: 286: 283: 280: 277: 276: 262: 208: 205: 202: 199: 198: 126: 123: 120: 117: 116: 92: 87: 85: 61: 12: 11: 5: 2909: 2907: 2899: 2898: 2893: 2888: 2883: 2878: 2873: 2868: 2863: 2853: 2852: 2848: 2847: 2837:requested move 2831: 2830: 2812: 2811: 2810: 2809: 2808: 2807: 2806: 2805: 2768: 2767: 2741: 2740: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2673: 2661: 2660: 2621: 2620: 2617: 2614: 2611: 2608: 2605: 2597: 2596: 2595: 2594: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2588: 2587: 2586: 2585: 2584: 2480: 2466: 2465: 2464: 2463: 2462: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2458: 2457: 2452: 2435:over the word 2410: 2409: 2355: 2341: 2327: 2309: 2302: 2277: 2274: 2267: 2228: 2227: 2192: 2174: 2164: 2144: 2143: 2142: 2141: 2140: 2139: 2138: 2137: 2136: 2135: 2134: 2133: 2132: 2131: 2130: 2129: 2070: 1971: 1964: 1943: 1942: 1941: 1940: 1914: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1868: 1867: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1751: 1744:discussion at 1692: 1691: 1690: 1637: 1636: 1635: 1634: 1556: 1555: 1552:Order of Lenin 1528: 1527: 1520:21,300 results 1516:29,600 results 1507: 1506: 1491: 1490: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1486: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1473: 1472: 1384:). So the nom 1369:Uanfala (talk) 1335:Uanfala (talk) 1275: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1165: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1161: 1160: 1137: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1048:Uanfala (talk) 1015:Uanfala (talk) 986: 959: 942: 941: 940: 939: 938: 917: 907:Uanfala (talk) 876: 873: 872: 871: 870: 869: 766: 765: 756: 745: 710: 709: 699:requested move 693: 691: 688: 686: 685: 671:requested move 665: 664: 663: 662: 616: 615: 592: 591: 590: 589: 571: 570: 525: 504: 503: 489:requested move 483: 481: 480:Requested move 478: 467:Wiki dr mahmad 462: 461: 436:Wiki dr mahmad 425: 424: 385: 384: 345: 344: 307: 304: 301: 300: 297: 296: 293: 292: 290: 278:Disambiguation 259:disambiguation 249: 237: 236: 234:Disambiguation 231: 219: 218: 215: 214: 212: 185: 173: 172: 167: 155: 154: 151: 150: 143: 133: 132: 130: 127:India articles 98: 97: 81: 69: 68: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2908: 2897: 2894: 2892: 2889: 2887: 2884: 2882: 2879: 2877: 2874: 2872: 2869: 2867: 2864: 2862: 2859: 2858: 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