Talk:Historiography of the Christianization of the Roman Empire/GA1

2688:

exponential growth of Christianity has achieved any consensus, except of course in his own multiple publications and a (very) few followers. There is a consensus for the reality of organic, un-coerced and officially-unsupported growth, but also for its inconstancy, mass mortality from infectious disease being a particular contributor to the spread of a religion that enjoined practical care for the sick.(for instance Heather, Harper) Stark's constant-growth hypothesis is unproved, it's unprovable, and its assertion as fact is used to set up a false dichotomy between violent official imposition after the Edict of Milan, and ongoing growth entirely unrelated to large-scale official support and threatening messages. This article does need to report that dichotomy - violence has most of the primary literary sources behind it, and ongoing growth irrelevant to violence is at least implicitly supported by a lot of recent work. But we need to recognize the combination after Constantine's conversion of internal growth, very occasional violence and recurrent high-level threats, and the stimulus to growth by an official atmosphere of threats and lack of protection, which discouraged overt non-Christian celebration and made non-Christian sacred property conveniently available for private appropriation.

3099:*I can acquiesce to removing Augustine and gladiators. No, of course they are not arguments that provide evidence for growth. They are arguments against. They are presented as "proofs" that Christianity had no moral impact, therefore no sociological impact: that the sociological model is wrong for these reasons. Imho, I thought it was important to address all the standing objections to the sociological model. Isn't it important to include both sides? That's why those sections are there. The reader can then decide for themselves what to think. But if there is consensus that presenting the opposing arguments isn't needed, then okay. 3073:"Over the last thirty years or so, ... scholars have considerably expanded the evidentiary basis for the study of religion in the Hellenistic and Roman periods in order to take into account inscriptions, coins, sculpture and architecture. The result has been a radically altered picture of religious life, one that is the polar opposite of the grim account of collapse sketched by people like Cumont. Much of the work on which this new picture is based is not in itself particularly recent... But it was only in the 1980s that syntheses appeared that pulled together the results of this more detailed work. 586:

checking every one - all 400... Groan. I love research but when writing, will start moving things around and sometimes lose which citation was connected to it! Aaarrggh! Now it has created more work for me! Sources are good, and citations are to the correct source, but those danged page #s! I can only do so much of this at a time however until I overload, so it may be a little slow. If you need to take a pause since a few days have already gone by and it's impossible to know how long this citation review will take, it would be perfectly reasonable.

2229:

having to explain how and why and what it meant, over and over, in each separate article. I was actually able to cut out a lot of that once they were merged as I just had to do that explaining once. Yes, it's long, though not longer than many other complex topics, and it's a much improved approach to what is also a controversial topic – imho. I won't support splitting them back apart again. That would be a change that sacrificed quality and content for some arbitrary number of words. It would not be an improvement. The merge was.

3277:. On page 115 of E. A. Judge's book, Jerusalem and Athens, Judge discusses how this method of debating out beliefs and practices was a practice of Roman Republic that the Senate pretty much surrendered to the autocratic emperors throughout the empirical period. It was revived by those Christian bishops under the Christian emperors, and this is important because this quarrelsomeness was practiced throughout the Middle Ages and became a cornerstone of modern democracy. I guess that's why you and I are here, where we are now, huh? 520:

attempting to keep the central question - in the first paragraph of the lead - as the focus. It has been peer reviewed twice - once on the talk page and once through email. The sources have also had a separate check as you can see on the talk page. I am hoping there are not too many problems, so that even though it is a long article, it won't take too long or be complicated to review. I hope. :-) We'll see! I will appreciate any and all comments. I will also do my best to respond promptly. And thank you again.

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separated if that's what you mean. The section above this one is Challenges to the sociological model. Perhaps we could do some combining of challenge and support instead of having them separated, and group them two at a time or some such thing. I have no idea what the requirements for viewing this on a phone would be. What would we need to comply with? I need a clearer description of the problem I think.

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how we have come to commonly understand the "labyrinthine problem of Christianization", how Christians changed the thinking of the time about "the heavens", and how that impacted Christianization, and how and why Christians invented the narrative that is the favorite of moderns, and what's its real impact on conversion - otherwise known as Christianization - might have been. There's this one where

483: 465: 3414: 3406: 455: 432: 417: 390: 370: 347: 336: 315: 296: 281: 266: 239: 204: 3082:*There is a whole section in this article on violence, and I am sure I still didn't say enough, but one WP article can't be expected to say everything. Rive's article on the current state of scholarship in this field is 59 pages long, and he says he didn't cover everything. Try J.H.D. Scourfield's on page 4 where he suggests a "cogent reason for marginalizing the conflict model". 662:, although Christianity-related articles usually use the latter in my experience -- but it's really personal preference. Right now you're mostly using CE, but there's a stray use of AD in an image caption (under #Negotiation, accommodation, adaptation, and transformation), and it should be standardized one way or another. (I realize that sometimes asking someone about MOS:ERA 477: 2090: 1883: 2778:!! Hi! Didn't expect to see you, and I am terrifically pleased. Your comments are, of course, genuinely appreciated. They fully demonstrate the complexity of this issue. I love this! Discussions like this are right up my alley. Let me take your very intelligent points one at a time, so please be patient and try to actually read my wall of text. 1952: 1917: 1567: 1536: 1504: 1410: 1379: 1343: 1272: 1219: 1186: 1157: 1112: 1071: 1028: 768: 3363:

importantly, links to sub-subsections don't work properly on mobile, so such a reader can't currently go to #The sociological model alone or another sub-subsection of it alone.) About two-fifths of this page's readers are using mobile browsers according to the pageview statistics, so it's important to keep in mind how they see the article.

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and read that specifically, but on mobile that's impossible. I'd just be redirected to the article with all the closed section headers, and after specifically opening the one it's in (which I wouldn't necessarily even know which that was) I'd have to scroll through a larger amount of text to find it.

3090:

It is perfectly reasonable to limit the time frame of any article on WP, and it is certainly justified - no required - on anything historical. What you are referring to is the Middle Ages. It is post Roman empire. It is post fifth century. This article is limited to the period of Ancient Christianity

2318:

I don't think the article should be organized around the possible reasons why people might have chosen Christianity over other belief systems, as it is at present. I guess I'm expecting to find sections on: 1) the establishment and growth of Christian institutions, such as churches, monasteries, etc.

1732:

Reading from a library computer, I don't see any new issues. That said, some of footnote 5 seems like it could be incorporated into the text -- "Economics was also a factor" by itself is quite short, and most footnotes don't seem to be read very often, so the information here seems relevant enough to

1494:

Aside from the prose note that this should probably be rendered "the German ancient historian Martin Zimmermann", the more concerning part is that the source here is unreliable -- it's itself a wiki project, which shouldn't be used as references. What you could do here is, instead of cite them, add a

1443:

OMG! I am so relieved to have you say that! I was worried about that one, but felt compelled to explain why he is now considered the minority opinion when forty years ago, when he started out, his was the majority view. It's been a total 180 in this field, and that's got to be disorienting for a lot

1338:

Bless you! Thank you! It is now fixed. I don't know why I didn't see that, but it's perfectly reasonable to point that out. (I have a thing about commas!) But good punctuation is just a minimal requirement in my view, so thank you. I checked other quotes, and they all seem to have the quotation marks

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is an important point -- the general reader will usually come in with the point of view that it was a political move, rather than a religious one. If the sources permit, it would be worth expanding on this to make it somewhat more prominent and explain why the point of view has shifted, to counteract

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to FAC, because one of my sources has page numbers very different between editions, and I'm looking forward to it as much as you are...I'm happy to give you a few days if you need it, leave a message on my talk when you're good with that. I might leave some prose comments on the first couple sections

3355:...and, back. This is a tricky one, I'm sorry. The solution might well be "leave it as it is", but it at least has to come up. This is one where it's a good thing that we have a few people watching this, because it's a hell of a lot easier to solve such an issue if you can get multiple viewpoints :) 2418:

The sentence you removed is not an opinion. It is in fact a summary statement of all the multiple articles and books that address Christianization. There is Peter Brown, the scholar that virtually created the field of Late Antiquity, and one of his plethora of articles and books: where he discusses

2243:

Regardless of what gets split or merged, I think the article goes into too much detail on causes. Since the article is about Christianization, the main focus should be on the expansion of Christianity rather than various theories on why it expanded. Per the GA criteria, it should stay focused on the

2228:

hope you are doing well in these weird days. This article is actually a merger of two that were originally split just as you suggest. Several editors who worked on them determined that combining them was necessary as the discussions between the decline and the growth are so intertwined that one kept

2191:

The article is very long (over 10,000 words), and well over half of the body text is taken up by the section "Possible causes of Christian growth". Seems to me that this section should be split off into a new article titled "Causes of the Christianization of the Roman Empire" and summarized here per

2125:

Strictly speaking, apostrophes are usually verboten by the Manual of Style, although in a context like this section header there's a good argument to make it's the best possible phrasing. I actually like the phrasing, apostrophe and all, and can't much think of a better one within the constraints of

1977:

Ref order, but this is also a source from 1912! The other source on it is more recent, so I suppose it's worth explicitly saying somewhere that this is still considered true, given how much attention is given elsewhere to significant changes in the historical interpretation of Roman Christianization

735:

Statements that I know will be disagreed with by some readers do have multiple references. Also, there are two separate claims in that sentence, so they both have refs. This is a fairly controversial topic, as the entire field of late antiquity is going through a change right now. There are some who

3087:

I also feel with buidhe that Christianization of the Roman Empire had an aftermath. I'd count the establishment of an intolerant and internally quarrelsome state religion as part of the identity of a major world civilization as a pretty important part of that aftermath, also its further development

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I'd also take out quite a few items that I can't see as relevant to the central theme, such as Augustine's view of how to punish heretics (really not at all relevant to this article) and Meijer's speculation on gladiators (has anybody seriously suggested that anti-gladiator preaching contributed to

1701:

In the process of checking every - single - citation - I have ended up making some changes to content in two places that I hope is clearer. Would you mind giving a second look at 'Violence or persuasion' and 'temple destruction'? References have been completely checked up to 'Paganism evolved', and

844:

I know this is a tricky matter for a broad-scope, abstract article -- been there, done that -- but we could really use a lead image here. What data we have of reader experiences with articles implies people get a lot more use, appreciation, and necessary support out of images than us as writers (or

793:

You have some apparent quotes in footnotes that, because of the way they're quoted, are a bit hard to tell where they're from or if they're even quotes at all. This is a fairly important issue, as it's a copyright/NFCC concern. Note 7 stands out to me in this respect, and I'm not sure that specific

3366:

The question is, what's the best way to make mobile readers more able to access this information? This is a tricky sort of one to split up, as it doesn't lend itself naturally to multiple smaller subsections to my eye (I've faced the same issue in other articles). I'm raising the issue to see what

3110:

All of this is already in the article Richard. Most of it is under 'support of the sociological model', but it's also in various objections such as 'slavery'. If you have something you feel needs adding, bring it and its reference here, and I am sure we can come to a reasonable consensus. I'm sure

2974:

Splitting off 'causes' doesn't seem necessary here, for now at least. For example, the 'Socio–economics' section, which relies on few sources, can very much be trimmed without any significant loss of meaning. Maybe a reduction of the number of direct quotes can help bring down the excess of words.

2805:

Stark's numbers are not his, they are taken from what we think we know: which is how many people Christianity started with, how many Christians we have indications of at the end of the second century and by the time of the Council of Nicea, how many were in Egypt and when they were there, how many

2647:

I have now put a version of the original sentence back with citations. This article has a narrow focus, a limited time frame, and is organized around the main ideas of 'Christianization in the RE' with particular focus on the arguments for and against the new sociological model. Accordingly, it is

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are all in fact already in the article in multiple places. Look under 'Constantine', look under 'Community', look under 'health care'. I think something pertinent to each of these is in every section of the part of the article you dislike so much. And as you say, #2 is even in section titles where

985:

Would it be worth explicitly mentioning the orthodoxy-orthopraxy distinction here? That's often the thing that trips up modern-day readers learning about polytheistic religions the most, in my experience. You allude to it by saying ritual was the most important aspect, but given the misconceptions

797:

Ah yes, attribution. I was told by the guy that is in charge of FA that I have too many inline attributions, and that the citation is sufficient. I told him I did not think anyone who writes on religion would agree, but I tried to cooperate. Of course, he also said I should just remove the quotes,

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grew after Constantine, but this has been done in multiple ways through multiple scholars, none of which are Stark. One example in the article: "E. A. Judge provides a detailed study demonstrating that a fully organized church system existed before Constantine, leading to the conclusion that "the

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The comparison with Bagnall's work in Egypt is unarguable. That undergirds late third century growth, which pretty much all historians agree with, as fact. I am happy to add any of this and explain in more detail the numbers we know, the time frame for them, that this is an estimated average, and

2810:

They form the foundation of the estimate, and more importantly probably, they limit what is possible arithmetically. This is fully demonstrated by Keith Hopkins who is as skeptical as should even satisfy you. In his interesting article , he takes more than one approach to the problem. He spends a

750:

I did have a somewhat long section giving specific examples about violence, and it was recommended that I remove it. I really liked it, it was quite convincing! So I moved it to a note. Then it was recommended that I remove that as well - it was long and they said no one would read it. I took the

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I've uploaded a couple screenshots of the article as shown on my phone (and any other smartphone). The first image is the default view -- all section headers are closed unless someone specifically opens them. The second image is if someone opens this individual section header, with the scrollbar

3075:

It is important to note that this new picture of the continued vitality of traditional religion does not mean that earlier scholarship has lost all its utility; all the works that I have cited here continue to provide valuable insights. The narratives of decline that informed them were wrong not

2687:

Looking through the GA criteria, I'd just like to record how immensely impressed I am with the amount of work that Jenhawk777 in particular has done. Moving on with buidhe's valuable comments, I still have problems with the result so far. In particular, I can't see that Stark's model of constant

1148:

Roman historians, such as J. A. North, observe that Roman imperial culture began in the first century with religion embedded in the city-state, then throughout the imperial period, it gradually shifted to religion as a choice with different groups offering different characteristics, experiences,

621:

Cool. Awesome. YES! A few days would be great! It is 400 citations. Review prose all you like. If you decide to make changes, which is perfectly okay with me, please check the source if you don't mind, otherwise, my friend will eat me alive for even the slightest variation from what the source

1474:

I confess I don't know the difference. I try to remember to use the – at the bottom of the edit window, but I have no idea which one of those it is. Have I been in the wrong to use it, or do these fail to use it and I should go put that in? I put in those – on these examples w/o knowing if it's

585:

I wondered! The citation review is going. It is something I really hate doing - I am not naturally detail oriented - but my reviewer found a page# error, and I found two more, so clearly it's very necessary. I am through the first part on causes of decline now, so that's something - right? I am

2789:

but that's a misunderstanding of what is said. First, no one has asserted these #s as fact, not even Stark. Stark says his purpose is "not to establish these numbers as fact, but to demonstrate that the growth of Christianity did not require miraculous rates of conversion" (as other models do

2652:

and what you are calling "aftermath" doesn't belong here. (There is no such thing as an "aftermath" to Christianization. There is an aftermath to the fall of the empire, but that's about politics not religion.) This title was the subject of much backing and forthing when the article was being

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article. It's actually a merge of two, but they were about the same central question and were incomplete by themselves, so merging them was suggested by three different editors. I did so and attempted to clean and combine them as well as I could. The structure is based on the merge while also

3389:

I am unsure exactly what you are asking here - other ways to divide this section? Sure, I don't really like the section title, but couldn't think of a better one. I was told that too many little sections was bad, that it "distracted" the reader, so things are combined that could very well be

2431:

this was the case". Pick any of the over 200 references, and find any one of them that describe the process of Christianization in any other way that does not include the how and why of it. You won't be able to, because your assessment of Christianization as not being about 'how and why' is

514:

No worries, take your time, I will not object, and so far my experience has been that as long as we are actively working on it - don't take a week break or some such thing - no one else will object either. A week is a guideline for average articles and you are absolutely right that this is a

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long section, which is problematic on mobile. If you have a phone, you can take one out, look at the layout it has here, and try to navigate that section on mobile. Otherwise I can provide screenshots to show what it looks like -- it's a lot trickier to navigate than it is on desktop. (Most

3107:

A more practical discussion of the factors that may have induced people to convert would be good. Community support, and even tiny improvements in personal agency, life control, and status, are all important and could be discussed better, as practical personal factors rather than impersonal

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2085:

Sigh, that was a friend (Avilich) who periodically parachutes in where I happen to be working, throws a few grenades, then retreats into the mists once again. No worries. He means well. I just leave him be. The article is stable - at least as much as anything can be with me and my friends

727:

There's a few cases throughout the article where a fairly short statement is followed by a long line of references. Some people are much more annoyed by this than I am -- I've been in enough content disputes to know sometimes you have to do that -- but it can imply a statement is being

1829:

That's a lengthy explanation. For awhile, I had it in a note, then I deleted the note because this is just too damn long! I can put explanation back amd try to keep it short, or I can remove "Various reasons" and just say scholars agree they went unenforced. Which would you prefer?

568:

Sorry for leaving you hanging -- I didn't realize! I don't receive pings, and this fell off my watchlist...I'm just wrapping up a FAC review, so will have time for this. How's the citation review going? I can review the prose while it's going on and get updates on the cite accuracy.

2281:

What you call the "main focus" is simply the fact that it grew, which is covered in one small section. That would leave all the actual questions - that are truly what constitute Christianization - unmentioned! That would be like trying to explain physics without mentioning gravity!

2352:

We're also missing information on aftermath/legacy. Surely the foundation of what is now the Catholic Church and the fact that millions of people converted to Christianity had a major effect on later history after the fall of the Roman empire, but this is never even touched upon.

1179:

Another 'general' note -- "Graeco-Roman" vs "Greco-Roman" isn't consistent throughout the article (it's "Graeco-" under #Roman religion and "Greco-" here; I haven't gone looking for all uses). While it doesn't particularly matter which is standardized on, it should be standard.

2797:

I don't mention any of this. In fact, there's basically one sentence on Stark. That seems now like that might have been a mistake on my part. It should have been made clear that these are estimates, and that no one thinks growth would have been a steady constant rate. I do say

1756:

Sorry to hear about your computer. Mine has been having problems and I suspect I need to take it in to a shop but there is no Mac store close by, so I keep putting it off. You have my sympathy. Thank you for taking a look and for the suggestion. I will follow up immediately.

1574:

used 'actual violence' as in violence that was acted out and was not all talk. This is sort of an allusion to MacMullen's standard of morality which says morality must be more than just talk in order to be considered real. If you think it needs more explanation, I can do

990:

drew my eye for similar reasons -- it's correct for the religions most people reading this article would be familiar with, but there are still many orthoprax faiths practiced today, so some readers might not know how to read that statement without additional context.)

3095:

where would you stop? Because in fact, I can quote multiple sources who say we are still in the aftermath of Empire in our modern world today. Stopping at the fifth century is the natural stopping place as Ancient Christianity came to an end there as did the empire

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itself does. You prefer the other article, and that's perfectly fine, but that doesn't undermine the notability of this one. This article basically summarizes all the current research on religious change in the field of Late Roman Antiquity. That's notable all by

2049:

More computer problems? Would you prefer to put this back on the list of candidates, and let someone else review it? I assure you there will be no hard feelings if you would. If real life or anything else is interfering, believe me, I do understand. It's okay.

732:(#Violence or persuasion) need that many references (it might, but it might not), and if it does, is there information in any of those references that could add additional worthwhile context, like real-world examples of the attitude towards religious violence? 2551:

Everything needs to be verifiable so if you want to make the claim that "How and why this dramatic growth occurred are the central questions of Christianization", it needs to be cited somewhere, and as more than just the opinion of one writer or a handful of

1439:

Not a criticism but the opposite -- I really like what you've done with the footnote on MacMullen. I've struggled before with how to contextualize in-article when an important writer nonetheless holds some odd positions, and that's an excellent way to do it.

2296:

The causes of the growth should be certainly discussed, but not constitute the bulk of the article. I've removed that sentence from the lead, since it is an opinion-based statement and would need attribution, besides I cannot find it anywhere in the body.

3056:*The Christians constructed a reality in rhetoric that is not supported by other evidence: they lied. Maybe they really believed what they claimed, metaphorically, I don't know, but while it suited them to claim a violent victory over paganism, it's 1495:

link to his article on the German Knowledge (given he doesn't have an article on the English one). There's a specific code to do cross-project links of that sort, which is a bit fiddly, so I've done it for you here so it can be added to the article:

3064:

is considered a forgery. Malalas claimed Constantine destroyed all the temples, then he said Theodosius did, then he said Constantine converted them all to churches. The textual evidence is not dependable by itself. We can't lean on it alone. Not

2439:

It makes the claim of social forces causing Christianization, and that requires discussing what is meant by "social forces". Since that is actually the focus of the page, it is appropriate that half to two–thirds of the article directly address

1140:

I know, this is a quirk of mine that I defend as fitting since the order of the references reflects the order of the claims in the sentence. But since according to the comment beneath this one, I am going to be splitting the sentence, it is now

704:

So you are not just brilliant and dedicated, you can also do magic. When I changed the AD to CE, all I got was a blank box filled with red print, no image at all. I don't know what you did differently, but it's fixed now, so thank you!

3053:. First, the concept of primary sources has to be expanded in our modern day. Second, we both know that "most of those primary literary sources" are Christian texts. The trouble there is that so many have been flat out contradicted. 2319:

in the Roman empire and 2) the effect of Christianity on Roman society, law, politics, etc. You already have a bunch of information on 2) but categorize it under "Possible causes of Christian growth" which seems backwards to me. (

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It can be true simultaneously that, considering its stated topic, an article spends too much space on certain issues, that it does not spend enough space on other topics, that it is too long overall, and that it is poorly

1317:

This is one of the more 'technical' MOS points, so I don't mind it too much, it's just one of those things that gets at the grammarian in me :) Manual of Style would prefer a quote structured like this one be rendered as

2427:: He begins by asking "why did ancient religion disappear" in the second paragraph. And in the third paragraph, again, "if the transition into a dominant Christian society was relatively peaceful, the question arises 3223:

Thanks for this considered reply. I apologize for my inadequacies in communication and I suggest that we may best make progress with this article by making limited, possibly bold, edits, with subsequent discussion.

2407:. That is not this article. Everything you have asked for is already there. This article has a much narrower topic. This article is only about the Roman empire in the first five centuries of the common era. And if 986:

lay readers often have about what "ritual being more important" means, it might be worthwhile to explicitly explain what's different about religions that focus on orthopraxy vs those that focus on orthodoxy. (The

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part about Martin of Tours out of the note, put it back in the body, and just dumped the rest. If you like, I can put it back as a note, and if you decide you don't like it after all, I can always remove it again.

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Most recorded incidents of temple destruction are known from ecclesiastical and hagiographical accounts which are eager to portray their subjects as engaging in violent acts in order to emphasize their piety and

1105:

I'm not sure about the current splitting-out of "Imperial cult" as yet another sub-heading here -- it produces very short subsections, which clutter the table of contents and make the article appear even longer.

2279:

which sees the Christianization of the Roman Empire as the result of new ideas coupled with the social force created by the church's charitable practices, moral behaviors, and its written and verbal discourse.

1806:

Okay I removed two of them just because you brought it up. Alan Cameron is probably all that's needed as his discussion is thorough but I'm leaving Salzman just because she also asks the question plainly. :-)

3326:

It was originally a reference to cheering or booing from the cheap seats in a Vaudeville theatre. The peanut gallery is also a reference to an old children's radio and TV show from the forties and fifties -

2923:. As one example, Sivan says fifth century Goths were aware of only one mass conversion. (There is also tons of evidence against Constantine or his subsequent emperors ever practicing forced conversion. 17: 3181:

Rives, James B. (2010). "Graeco-Roman Religion in the Roman Empire: Old Assumptions and New Approaches". Currents in Biblical Research. 8 (2): 240–299. doi:10.1177/1476993X09347454. S2CID 161124650.

3068:*Peter Brown spends a conference paper on "why would they do that?" Why would they make claims of violent victory? To demonstrate piety and power. They wanted to seem stronger than they really were. 669:

Using a control-F search, the image caption (and titles in the bibliography) are the only places AD is used. I tried changing the image caption, and then the image wouldn't print. What should I do?

126: 1404:

As well as reference order, this incorporates a quote alongside several sources, where it's not clear which of the sources is being quoted. The quote-ee should be mentioned in the text at least.

3335:

seems like an odd statement from one who likes to reference Gibbon as much as you do. But actually, I agree generally speaking. History is done by historians, but they come in all flavors now.

3471:

I checked it on my phone this morning and I think it did fix the problem. All categories are visible and easily accessible now. I arranged them so there is now one pro then one con and so on.

122: 2064:

Don't worry, I'm just naturally slow :P I did notice one of the sections was substantially edited by someone else lately -- is that going okay? Just checking in on the article's stability.

2794:

Growth might have been more rapid at times and there may have been periodic losses. (After the destruction of Jerusalem, the Christian community there seems to have died out for awhile.)

622:

says. Otherwise...moan...I will do it. Hope you find the article interesting and informative at any rate. Happy editing! Hey I love your user page! All of this does get a little unreal!

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A note that I'm following this conversation, just in case Jenhawk worries I've disappeared again; the aftermath section note I agree with, the organization stuff is worth considering.

3241:

I have never known you to have any difficulty communicating. I don't agree that this article needs bold edits, but you must do what you think is best - with good sources of course.

2415:

claims, then ancient Christianity came to an end after the fifth century when it shifted into its medieval form, and the middle ages has no business being anywhere in this article.

3071:*James Rives is one of the top men in his field, and I recommend reading his entire article, however, reality being what it is, at least take a look at page 251 where he writes: 99: 2717:

down the centuries. I wouldn't say that we need to go into any details as part of this article, but a couple of sentences with relevant wikilinks would strike me as appropriate.

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as part of the identity of a major world civilization as a pretty important part of that aftermath, also its further development (especially in the form of Islam) and resulting

3425:

visible; you can see how long it is from the scrollbar. The big issue is that individual subsections aren't easily accessed on mobile -- on desktop I could make a link to, say

2587:

How about "All questions concerning the rise of Christianity are one: How was it done?" Since when are the majority of the leading scholars in the field a "handful of people"?

994:

Ritualism is actually different from both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. They are more about how one practices Christianity and aren't really applicable to Graeco-Roman polytheism.

1801:

As a record of history, modern historians had to assume these laws and their harsh consequences were implemented, yet contemporary scholarship has shown this to be incorrect.

1402:"He did not punish pagans for being pagans, or Jews for being Jews, and did not adopt a policy of forced conversion"; he was not in favor of suppression of paganism by force. 2819:

Stark may or may not have consensus, I don't know, I didn't look for that, but it is fair to say there is no evidence of anyone contradicting him. As the article also says:

2126:

a short section header -- I'm just noting this because it's the sort of thing that gets brought up, and at the very least the reason for not removing it should be addressed.

2821:"more sophisticated mathematical models (for the shape of the expansion curve) could affect certain assumptions, but not the general tendency of the numerical hypotheses". 2510:

Cooper, Kate. “Insinuations of Womanly Influence: An Aspect of the Christianization of the Roman Aristocracy.” The Journal of Roman Studies, vol. 82, , 1992, pp. 150–64,

1463:

Hyphens and dashes are complicated, I don't behoove anyone for mixing them up, but this should probably be a hyphen (-) rather than an en dash (–). The same is true for

2950:

In fact, I will have to come back and address the rest because RL is interfering right now. I will be back asap. I want to answer these. I predicted they would appear.

3076:

because the phenomena that these scholars discussed did not exist, but because they were only a part of the story, and a much smaller part than those scholars assumed.

3002:

Hopkins, Keith. "Christian Number and its Implications." Journal of Early Christian Studies, vol. 6 no. 2, 1998, p. 185-226. Project MUSE, doi:10.1353/earl.1998.0035.

554:

I have a friend going through a citation review checking the accuracy of all the page numbers, so if you need to press pause on this for a bit, that is fine with me.

3367:

comes up, and because it's important to reviewing the rest of this section -- if the structure changes, then a section-by-section review here gets messed up a bit.

853:) but a lesser-known example to avoid being overplayed. You could try something similar here, such as a depiction of a saint or martyr of the Christianization era. 80: 1702:

in the 'new ideas' sections, and partially checked through the rest of the article, but I don't anticipate doing this to you again. I'm sorry. I couldn't help it.

3308:

Exegetical works are suitable as sources on themselves of course, but not on history... Best leave this point now, but one question, what is the peanut gallery?

3011:

Couzin, Robert (2014). "The Christian sarcophagus population of Rome". Journal of Roman Archaeology. 27: 275–303. doi:10.1017/S104775941400124X. S2CID 162418721.

2892:

violence has most of the primary literary sources behind it, and ongoing growth irrelevant to violence is at least implicitly supported by a lot of recent work.

2153: 70: 1803:

Ref order, but this is also just a lot of refs for a single sentence. Contextually I think that's okay, but it's worth noting just to get it brought up.

409: 115: 1511:

Thank you so much for this. I knew about using other wikis but when I looked, I didn't find him there. This is extremely helpful of you! Thank you.

2653:

created, and this was the one agreed upon, so there is an established consensus for it. That's what we should stick with. Thank you for your input

3269:

as part of the aftermath of Christianization. You are absolutely right, of course. It is actually very briefly referred to in this article under

156: 2827:

that reality would not have been constant. But numbers working as they do, growth in numbers would absolutely have looked something like this.

849:

with trying to find what image could encapsulate such a broad and abstract idea, I ended up with an image quite characteristic of the time (a

1151:

is a rather long and choppy sentence that could probably be split in two around "throughout the imperial period" and restructured slightly.

3426: 3020:

Harris, William Vernon (2005). The Spread of Christianity in the First Four Centuries: Essays in Explanation. Brill. ISBN 978-90-04-14717-1

2919:

I will add here that other models of conversion, even those including violence, require large scale mass conversions in the fourth century

2452:

don't think the article should be organized around the possible reasons why people might have chosen Christianity over other belief systems

92: 2894:

What recent work would that be? I would like to see a reference anywhere that says violence is currently anything but a minority opinion.

2808:

These numbers all stand independently of Stark, having been established through other means, by other historians, which Stark references.

3163:

Bayliss, Richard (2004). Provincial Cilicia and the Archaeology of Temple Conversion. Oxford: Archaeopress. ISBN 1-84171-634-0. page 110

2556: 3480: 3461: 3452:, before I saw this, I went and made some radical changes. Take a look and see if you think there is any improvement in accessibility. 3441: 3399: 3378: 3344: 3317: 3286: 3262:. I will hold off on Augustine and gladiators until there is a consensus concerning including arguments against the sociological model. 3250: 3233: 3205: 2984: 2959: 2751: 2670: 2637: 2575: 2541: 2387: 2369: 2335: 2313: 2291: 2260: 2238: 2212: 2178: 2102: 2075: 2059: 2039: 2017: 1998: 1967: 1932: 1895: 1869: 1853: 1839: 1816: 1766: 1744: 1727: 1711: 1691: 1674: 1655: 1625: 1584: 1551: 1520: 1484: 1453: 1425: 1394: 1359: 1333: 1312: 1287: 1249: 1235: 1202: 1172: 1127: 1086: 1043: 1003: 965: 950: 931: 909: 881: 865: 828: 807: 784: 760: 745: 714: 694: 678: 631: 616: 595: 580: 563: 546: 529: 503: 160: 3190:

Scourfield, J. H. D. (2007). Texts and Culture in Late Antiquity: Inheritance, Authority, and Change. ISD LLC. ISBN 978-1-910589-45-8.

3172:

Brown, Peter (1993). "The Problem of Christianization" (PDF). Proceedings of the British Academy. Oxford University Press. 84: 89–106.

2432:

mistaken. I don't know what else you think Christianization is: it is by definition about the process of how and why people converted.

168: 1561:

is a somewhat unfortunate wording, given verbal and psychological violence can be quite severe; just "physical violence" would work.

2616: 2423:

discusses whether one of the causes of Christianization was women influencing their husbands to convert or not. Here is just one by

1608:

Jeez Louise - and the correct spelling and the incorrect are right there next to each other! And yes you are right about the comma.

3154:

Trombley, Frank R. Hellenic Religion and Christianization, C.370-529. Netherlands, Brill Academic Publishers, 2001. pages 246–282

1226:

see what you think. If you don't like it or if it seems like a long walk down an unnecessary rabbit trail, we can always cut it.

845:

the image policies we have to follow...) often account for, so it's an important thing to have. When I faced similar concerns at

1210:

Scholarship of the twenty-first century has shifted toward seeing it more as a genuine religious phenomenon than a political one

2403:

First you say the article is too long, then you say it needs to contain more. The article you are describing already exists as

175: 75: 2802:

but perhaps that's insufficient. What Stark offers is an average rate, not a constant one. Those are arithmetically different.

663: 288: 2721:

the spread of Christianity? Or is the disappearance of gladiators being argued to be part of the aftermath of Christianity?)

2523:

Bremmer, J. N. (2021). How Do We Explain the Quiet Demise of Graeco-Roman Religion? An Essay, Numen, 68(2-3), 230-271. doi:

728:

underexplained/undercontextualized, or that not all of the references are actually needed to back it up. For instance, does

3258:

I have now made some changes that hopefully reflect your concerns. I have also edited down socio-economics in response to

3136:

Kahlos, Maijastina (2019). Religious Dissent in Late Antiquity, 350–450. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-006725-0.

2564: 2358: 2324: 2302: 2249: 2201: 492:

Picking this up. This is quite a long article, so a full review might take a while, but I'll do my best to be prompt.

2975:

But even in the current form I don't see much point in splitting: the causes are integral to the subject, after all.

2790:

require).(page 12) On page 11, he says "keep in mind that these numbers are estimates"... Second, he points out that

3079:

That includes the concepts of Graeco-Roman religious decline due, in any major way, to violence by early Christians.

3436: 3373: 3313: 3229: 2747: 2661:, I am always grateful for your ideas, but this time, I do not believe the article would benefit from taking them. 2382: 2148: 2070: 2012: 1864: 1739: 1722: 1716:

I'll take another look! My laptop is currently having issues so I can't guarantee a timeframe, but I'll get there.

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1) the establishment and growth of Christian institutions, such as churches, monasteries, etc. in the Roman empire

1733:

be worth putting in the text directly. The first half of the footnote, at least, seems worth placing directly in.

922:

Well, my Brief English Handbook says this qualifies as an interruptor, and therefore it needs commas at both ends.

211: 1975:

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, it was Constantine's son Constantius who first issued bans on sacrifice.

736:

just don't want to let go. I will go take a look at what each reference says. Maybe I can narrow it down some.

3145:

MacMullen, Ramsay (1984). Christianizing the Roman Empire : (A.D. 100-400). New Haven. ISBN 978-0-300-03216-1.

1603:

In the Greater Lavant such destruction was substantial though most of it occurred after the mid-fifth century

2412: 252: 231: 1858:

That's fine. Length is always tricky; I trend more in favour of long articles than a lot of other editors.

2193: 3417:

Article on a phone, final section open (with scrollbar visible so you can see how high up the page it is)

2811:

good bit of time discussing variable rates - which I also did not include, thinking it a side-trip - but

2806:

there were by the fifth century, and finally, what we estimate the overall population of the empire was.

2486: 3466: 3447: 3431: 3384: 3368: 3323: 3309: 3255: 3238: 3225: 3046: 2775: 2743: 2706: 2377: 2143: 2080: 2065: 2044: 2025: 2007: 1874: 1859: 1751: 1734: 1717: 1696: 1664: 1323: 940: 871: 699: 684: 606: 570: 551: 534: 509: 493: 146: 3331:- which used the phrase to silence its audience - always producing the opposite effect of course. This 2781:

First, you are absolutely right that no one supports a constant growth model - not even Stark. You say

1496: 2454:

but that is the question of Christianization and the Roman empire. Why did people convert? Why did so

971:

Couple more comments...and no need to be anxious! I work somewhat on 'my own schedule', but I'm here.

683:

Hm -- what does "wouldn't print" mean? I've just tweaked the caption myself and the image looks fine.

3476: 3457: 3395: 3340: 3282: 3246: 3201: 2955: 2666: 2633: 2537: 2408: 2287: 2234: 2174: 2098: 2055: 2035: 1994: 1963: 1928: 1891: 1849: 1835: 1812: 1762: 1707: 1687: 1651: 1621: 1580: 1547: 1516: 1480: 1449: 1421: 1390: 1355: 1308: 1283: 1245: 1231: 1198: 1168: 1123: 1082: 1039: 999: 961: 927: 905: 861: 846: 824: 803: 780: 756: 741: 710: 674: 627: 601: 591: 559: 542: 525: 307: 303: 730:

Rhetoric often espoused violence, but actual (i.e. physical) violence was rare and usually isolated.

2133: 2927:

Evidence of 'coercion' is all about law, so let's set that aside for now. I will come back to it.)

2705:

I also feel with buidhe that Christianization of the Roman Empire had an aftermath. I'd count the

2854:

false dichotomy between violent official imposition after the Edict of Milan, and ongoing growth

2555:

I think unless there are substantial changes in the article's structure, it should be moved to

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which I have done as well. I will check all the notes and clean that up one way or the other.

2742:

I have other comments, but it may be tactful to stop at this point and let others respond...

605:

in the meanwhile, but I'm still reading/rereading/getting a feel for the article in general.

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argument Christianity owed its triumph to its adoption by Constantine cannot be sustained".

2649: 2560: 2463: 2404: 2354: 2320: 2298: 2245: 2197: 399: 219: 3472: 3453: 3391: 3336: 3278: 3242: 3197: 2951: 2662: 2629: 2533: 2283: 2230: 2170: 2094: 2051: 2031: 1990: 1959: 1924: 1887: 1845: 1831: 1808: 1758: 1703: 1683: 1647: 1617: 1576: 1543: 1512: 1476: 1445: 1417: 1386: 1351: 1304: 1279: 1241: 1227: 1194: 1164: 1119: 1078: 1035: 995: 957: 923: 901: 857: 820: 799: 776: 752: 737: 706: 670: 623: 587: 555: 538: 521: 1137:-- good practice to keep an eye on references that they're in the right numerical order. 2275:

How and why this dramatic growth occurred are the central questions of Christianization.

988:

Religion as it is understood in the modern world did not exist in the Graeco-Roman world

3049:, I am back and am anxious to address all your concerns. So let's go back to this one: 2714: 2424: 2129:

Attribution with regards to large block quotes, again -- the "author" parameter of the

850: 356: 215: 179: 2163: 1983: 1640: 1610: 894: 813: 3333:

Exegetical works are suitable as sources on themselves of course, but not on history.

890:

The second mention of the title, the one in the last paragraph, shouldn't be bolded.

424: 227: 223: 3413: 3405: 3259: 2976: 2860:. It contributes to the ongoing undermining of the argument that Christianity only 482: 464: 273: 3088:(especially in the form of Islam) and resulting religious wars down the centuries. 1940:

They could appeal to other systems of law, such as Jewish law, or local traditions

470: 3328: 2655: 2569: 2420: 2397: 2363: 2329: 2307: 2267: 2254: 2222: 2206: 3265:

Richard, it is terrifically interesting, and ironic to me, that you include an

1444:

of people including him. So anyway, thank you so much for that! It helps me.

2524: 1943: 1015: 1011: 1795:

YAY! Whhoo hoo! Halelujah! I'm so happy to see you here I could weep! :-)

476: 1981:

Removed and replaced the 1912 source though this view has not changed.

1844:

I just jumped boldly in and removed various reasons. Hope that's okay.

659: 2559:

because that seems to be what you're trying to cover in the article. (

1014:

seems like it could reasonably link to that article, rather than just

2813:

given what there is to work with, he arrives at almost the identical

2710: 1322:, with the full stop outside rather than inside the quotation marks. 1298: 2273:- that is the topic. As it says in the first paragraph of the lead: 658:

Watch for consistent use of BCE/CE or BC/AD. You can use either per

600:

Completely understandable -- I'll have to do similar if I ever take

2856:, but, no, it doesn't. It neither discusses nor mentions violence 1022:, rather than "Isis" alone linking to a subsection of her article. 1018:

as it does now. "Worship of Isis" could be restructed as a link to

3412: 3404: 3060:

not true. The Battle of the Frigidus has been shown to be a myth.

1350:. I will be back tomorrow. It's after midnight here. Thanx again, 2511: 2462:

article. It has just as legitimate a place in an encyclopedia as

1528:

Christianity sought to legitimize its new power through rhetoric.

1605:

also strikes me as missing a comma for "substantial, though".)

18:

Talk:Historiography of the Christianization of the Roman Empire

2783:

its assertion as fact is used to set up a false dichotomy ...

1303:

I read it and don't see what I did wrong. Could you explain?

3102:*Socio-economics can possibly be trimmed. I'll work on that. 2277:

This article presents the relatively new sociological model

1339:

inside the period. I cannot explain this one! But it is now

3427:

Christianization of the Roman Empire#The sociological model

3409:

Article on a phone, by default (all section headers closed)

3111:

whatever you have to add would be of value to the article.

3051:

violence has most of the primary literary sources behind it

2610:

The Rise of Christianity: A Sociologist Reconsiders History

1010:

The links in the second paragraph could use some tweaking.

1295:

Constantine was "a sincere if a somewhat simple believer."

2435:

The question of how is directly addressed by sociology.

1824:

For various reasons, scholars agree they went unenforced

1264:

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

134: 103: 2800:

this would not have been steady but would have varied

2121:

Well, if you can speak to the article's stability :)

3091:

and to Roman Empire. If we were to agree to include

917:

Greco-Roman polytheism, (commonly called paganism),

2557:Causes of the Christianization of the Roman Empire 1978:over similar or shorter timescales than this one. 856:How about a temple? I added one. You may hate it. 2437:This article is about the new sociological model. 664:is like asking them about their choice of infobox 1663:That should be all for now. Very thorough work! 2787:Stark's constant-growth hypothesis is unproved, 2187:Balance of the article from the peanut gallery 1911:appears to have an article, so can be linked. 2648:well-organized. Content that would duplicate 2584:That it can be true doesn't prove it is true. 8: 2590:I think that title is redundant. See above. 408:(images are tagged and non-free images have 2792:"reality may have been a good bit lumpier". 1789:I should be back to having a computer now! 1492:Martin Zimmermann, German ancient historian 919:-- I don't think we need that first comma? 1320:"a sincere if a somewhat simple believer". 30: 2525:https://doi.org/10.1163/15685276-12341622 1266:, as a book title, should be in italics. 164: 3129: 2995: 2600: 2477: 2139:template should be able to handle that. 61: 33: 3332: 3274: 3270: 3266: 3106: 3086: 3072: 3050: 2891: 2853: 2820: 2799: 2786: 2782: 2451: 2443: 2278: 2274: 1974: 1939: 1823: 1800: 1632: 1602: 1598: 1558: 1527: 1491: 1468: 1464: 1460: 1401: 1370: 1319: 1294: 1209: 1147: 1134: 1062: 1058: 987: 916: 729: 3267:internally quarrelsome state religion 2711:internally quarrelsome state religion 1193:all Graeco now except one book title 7: 2612:. Princeton University Press. p. 3. 2087: 1880: 3351:Possible causes of Christian growth 2117:Paganism didn't decline, it evolved 2116: 1135:experiences, insights, and stories. 2500:. Oxford University Press: 89–106. 2494:Proceedings of the British Academy 1942:I don't think we need the link to 1373:should be rendered "empire-wide". 666:, so bit of a delicate point :) ) 403:, where possible and appropriate. 24: 3271:Support of the sociological model 2487:"The Problem of Christianization" 3275:theological debates in the synod 2162: 2088: 1982: 1950: 1915: 1881: 1639: 1609: 1565: 1534: 1502: 1408: 1377: 1341: 1270: 1217: 1184: 1155: 1110: 1069: 1026: 893: 812: 766: 481: 475: 469: 463: 453: 430: 415: 388: 368: 365:Fair representation without bias 345: 334: 313: 294: 279: 264: 237: 202: 2852:Second, you say this sets up a 1559:Actual (i.e. physical) violence 649:Alright, first couple notes... 454: 431: 416: 389: 369: 346: 335: 314: 295: 280: 265: 238: 203: 178:for what the criteria are, and 2921:for which there is no evidence 2707:establishment of an intolerant 2512:https://doi.org/10.2307/301289 199:(prose, spelling, and grammar) 1: 3481:17:06, 10 February 2022 (UTC) 3462:07:20, 10 February 2022 (UTC) 3442:07:02, 10 February 2022 (UTC) 3400:06:42, 10 February 2022 (UTC) 3379:03:35, 10 February 2022 (UTC) 2823:The math is what the math is. 1371:sudden empire wide conversion 3345:05:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC) 3318:20:13, 5 February 2022 (UTC) 3287:18:56, 4 February 2022 (UTC) 3251:17:46, 4 February 2022 (UTC) 3234:11:52, 4 February 2022 (UTC) 3206:05:16, 4 February 2022 (UTC) 2985:22:18, 3 February 2022 (UTC) 2960:20:54, 3 February 2022 (UTC) 2925:Historians agree he did not. 2858:which is discussed elsewhere 2752:17:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC) 2671:18:26, 2 February 2022 (UTC) 2638:08:06, 2 February 2022 (UTC) 2576:07:18, 2 February 2022 (UTC) 2542:06:33, 2 February 2022 (UTC) 2388:03:04, 2 February 2022 (UTC) 2370:01:41, 2 February 2022 (UTC) 2336:21:47, 1 February 2022 (UTC) 2314:21:02, 1 February 2022 (UTC) 2292:20:50, 1 February 2022 (UTC) 2261:06:45, 1 February 2022 (UTC) 2239:06:33, 1 February 2022 (UTC) 2213:03:48, 1 February 2022 (UTC) 2179:06:38, 1 February 2022 (UTC) 2154:08:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC) 2103:07:46, 31 January 2022 (UTC) 2076:00:27, 31 January 2022 (UTC) 2060:21:05, 30 January 2022 (UTC) 2040:06:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 2018:01:09, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1999:06:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1968:06:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1933:06:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1896:06:19, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1870:06:13, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1854:06:11, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1840:06:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1826:-- various reasons such as? 1817:06:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC) 1767:04:17, 24 January 2022 (UTC) 1745:01:44, 24 January 2022 (UTC) 1728:22:13, 23 January 2022 (UTC) 1712:21:04, 23 January 2022 (UTC) 1692:17:24, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1675:22:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC) 1656:17:24, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1626:17:24, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1585:17:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1552:17:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1521:17:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1485:17:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1454:17:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1426:06:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1395:06:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1360:06:27, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1334:06:14, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1313:06:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1288:06:07, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1250:05:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1236:05:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1203:05:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1173:05:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1128:05:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1087:04:21, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1044:04:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 1016:a subsection of that article 1004:04:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 966:07:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 951:19:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC) 932:07:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 910:07:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 882:22:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC) 866:07:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 829:06:36, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 808:04:57, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 785:06:36, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 761:04:57, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 746:04:57, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 715:04:36, 19 January 2022 (UTC) 695:07:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 679:04:57, 18 January 2022 (UTC) 632:20:31, 10 January 2022 (UTC) 617:20:14, 10 January 2022 (UTC) 596:20:06, 10 January 2022 (UTC) 581:19:01, 10 January 2022 (UTC) 564:18:41, 10 January 2022 (UTC) 1636:is a long run-on sentence. 794:footnote is needed at all. 547:20:58, 8 January 2022 (UTC) 530:17:36, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 504:10:25, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 161:10:25, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 3503: 3108:higher-order abstractions. 2725:higher-order abstractions. 3273:in the phrase concerning 462: 167: 2817:rate of growth as Stark. 2458:people convert? That is 2030:Thank you! Bless you! 956:Very cool! Thank you! 192:reasonably well written 3418: 3410: 2608:Stark, Rodney (1996). 1434:Violence or persuasion 1213:those misconceptions. 1149:insights, and stories. 1061:should be rendered as 423:(appropriate use with 182:for what they are not) 3416: 3408: 2485:Brown, Peter (1993). 1601:misspells "Levant". ( 397:It is illustrated by 357:neutral point of view 324:broad in its coverage 1475:right!! Hope it is! 847:Prehistoric religion 775:See what you think. 602:prehistoric religion 2411:is as brilliant as 1530:-- reference order 1461:anti–pagan violence 1057:The en dash (–) in 870:I don't hate it :) 410:fair use rationales 3419: 3411: 2447:it's easy to find. 2265:But darling, dear 1593:Temple destruction 1258:The top-down model 385:No edit wars, etc. 248:factually accurate 2785:and you refer to 2390: 1909:Caroline Humfress 1497:Martin Zimmermann 1299:logical quotation 1065:without a space. 1020:Mysteries of Isis 537:How is it going? 489: 488: 425:suitable captions 89: 88: 3494: 3324:Richard Keatinge 3310:Richard Keatinge 3256:Richard Keatinge 3239:Richard Keatinge 3226:Richard Keatinge 3191: 3188: 3182: 3179: 3173: 3170: 3164: 3161: 3155: 3152: 3146: 3143: 3137: 3134: 3062:Porphyry of Gaza 3047:Richard Keatinge 3027: 3021: 3018: 3012: 3009: 3003: 3000: 2776:Richard Keatinge 2744:Richard Keatinge 2658: 2650:Christianization 2623: 2622: 2605: 2572: 2527: 2521: 2515: 2508: 2502: 2501: 2491: 2482: 2464:Christianization 2405:Christianization 2400: 2375: 2366: 2332: 2310: 2270: 2257: 2244:primary topic. ( 2225: 2209: 2166: 2161:OOPS!! Both are 2138: 2132: 2093: 2092: 2091: 1986: 1958: 1954: 1953: 1923: 1919: 1918: 1886: 1885: 1884: 1643: 1613: 1573: 1569: 1568: 1542: 1538: 1537: 1510: 1506: 1505: 1416: 1412: 1411: 1385: 1381: 1380: 1349: 1345: 1344: 1278: 1274: 1273: 1225: 1221: 1220: 1192: 1188: 1187: 1163: 1159: 1158: 1118: 1114: 1113: 1077: 1073: 1072: 1034: 1030: 1029: 897: 816: 774: 770: 769: 552:Vaticidalprophet 535:Vaticidalprophet 485: 479: 473: 467: 457: 456: 434: 433: 419: 418: 392: 391: 372: 371: 349: 348: 338: 337: 317: 316: 298: 297: 283: 282: 274:reliable sources 268: 267: 241: 240: 206: 205: 183: 165: 147:Vaticidalprophet 139: 130: 111: 43:Copyvio detector 31: 3502: 3501: 3497: 3496: 3495: 3493: 3492: 3491: 3353: 3195: 3194: 3189: 3185: 3180: 3176: 3171: 3167: 3162: 3158: 3153: 3149: 3144: 3140: 3135: 3131: 3032: 3031: 3030: 3024: 3019: 3015: 3010: 3006: 3001: 2997: 2656: 2627: 2626: 2619: 2607: 2606: 2602: 2570: 2531: 2530: 2522: 2518: 2509: 2505: 2489: 2484: 2483: 2479: 2398: 2364: 2330: 2308: 2268: 2255: 2223: 2207: 2194:WP:SUMMARYSTYLE 2189: 2136: 2130: 2119: 2089: 1951: 1949: 1916: 1914: 1882: 1787: 1595: 1566: 1564: 1535: 1533: 1503: 1501: 1471:in footnote 4. 1436: 1409: 1407: 1378: 1376: 1342: 1340: 1271: 1269: 1260: 1218: 1216: 1185: 1183: 1156: 1154: 1111: 1109: 1102: 1097: 1070: 1068: 1054: 1027: 1025: 982: 977: 841: 767: 765: 655: 354:It follows the 331:(major aspects) 173: 120: 97: 91: 85: 57: 29: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3500: 3498: 3490: 3489: 3488: 3487: 3486: 3485: 3484: 3483: 3403: 3402: 3352: 3349: 3348: 3347: 3306: 3305: 3304: 3303: 3302: 3301: 3300: 3299: 3298: 3297: 3296: 3295: 3294: 3293: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3289: 3263: 3193: 3192: 3183: 3174: 3165: 3156: 3147: 3138: 3128: 3127: 3123: 3122: 3121: 3120: 3119: 3118: 3117: 3116: 3115: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3103: 3100: 3097: 3083: 3080: 3069: 3066: 3054: 3029: 3028: 3022: 3013: 3004: 2994: 2993: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2971: 2970: 2969: 2968: 2967: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2963: 2962: 2939: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2903: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2899: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2873: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2869: 2868: 2867: 2866: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2828: 2824: 2803: 2795: 2763: 2761: 2760: 2759: 2758: 2757: 2756: 2755: 2754: 2733: 2732: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2722: 2718: 2715:religious wars 2696: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2692: 2691: 2690: 2689: 2678: 2677: 2676: 2675: 2674: 2673: 2625: 2624: 2617: 2599: 2598: 2594: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2588: 2585: 2579: 2578: 2553: 2549: 2529: 2528: 2516: 2503: 2476: 2475: 2471: 2470: 2469: 2468: 2450:I'm sorry you 2448: 2441: 2433: 2425:Jan N. Bremmer 2416: 2373: 2372: 2349: 2348: 2347: 2346: 2345: 2344: 2343: 2342: 2341: 2340: 2339: 2338: 2188: 2185: 2184: 2183: 2182: 2181: 2141: 2140: 2127: 2118: 2115: 2114: 2113: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2109: 2108: 2107: 2106: 2105: 2006:More to come. 2004: 2003: 2002: 2001: 1972: 1971: 1970: 1937: 1936: 1935: 1906: 1905: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1900: 1899: 1898: 1879:Lucky for me. 1821: 1820: 1819: 1798: 1797: 1796: 1786: 1783: 1782: 1781: 1780: 1779: 1778: 1777: 1776: 1775: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1661: 1660: 1659: 1658: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1599:Greater Lavant 1594: 1591: 1590: 1589: 1588: 1587: 1556: 1555: 1554: 1525: 1524: 1523: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1458: 1457: 1456: 1435: 1432: 1431: 1430: 1429: 1428: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1368: 1367: 1366: 1365: 1364: 1363: 1362: 1292: 1291: 1290: 1259: 1256: 1255: 1254: 1253: 1252: 1238: 1207: 1206: 1205: 1177: 1176: 1175: 1146:On that note, 1144: 1143: 1142: 1132: 1131: 1130: 1101: 1098: 1096: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1053: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1046: 1008: 1007: 1006: 981: 980:Roman religion 978: 976: 973: 969: 968: 939:More to come. 937: 936: 935: 934: 914: 913: 912: 888: 887: 886: 885: 884: 851:Venus figurine 840: 837: 836: 835: 834: 833: 832: 831: 791: 790: 789: 788: 787: 748: 724: 723: 722: 721: 720: 719: 718: 717: 654: 651: 647: 646: 645: 644: 643: 642: 641: 640: 639: 638: 637: 636: 635: 634: 491: 487: 486: 460: 459: 448: 440: 439: 438: 437: 436: 435: 420: 395: 394: 393: 375: 374: 373: 352: 351: 350: 339: 320: 319: 318: 299: 284: 272:(citations to 269: 244: 243: 242: 207: 185: 184: 172: 140: 87: 86: 84: 83: 78: 73: 67: 64: 63: 59: 58: 56: 55: 53:External links 50: 45: 39: 36: 35: 28: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3499: 3482: 3478: 3474: 3470: 3469: 3465: 3464: 3463: 3459: 3455: 3451: 3450: 3445: 3444: 3443: 3440: 3439: 3435: 3434: 3428: 3423: 3422: 3421: 3420: 3415: 3407: 3401: 3397: 3393: 3388: 3387: 3383: 3382: 3381: 3380: 3377: 3376: 3372: 3371: 3364: 3361: 3356: 3350: 3346: 3342: 3338: 3334: 3330: 3325: 3322: 3321: 3320: 3319: 3315: 3311: 3288: 3284: 3280: 3276: 3272: 3268: 3264: 3261: 3257: 3254: 3253: 3252: 3248: 3244: 3240: 3237: 3236: 3235: 3231: 3227: 3222: 3221: 3220: 3219: 3218: 3217: 3216: 3215: 3214: 3213: 3212: 3211: 3210: 3209: 3208: 3207: 3203: 3199: 3187: 3184: 3178: 3175: 3169: 3166: 3160: 3157: 3151: 3148: 3142: 3139: 3133: 3130: 3126: 3109: 3104: 3101: 3098: 3094: 3089: 3084: 3081: 3078: 3077: 3070: 3067: 3063: 3059: 3055: 3052: 3048: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3041: 3040: 3039: 3038: 3037: 3036: 3035: 3034: 3033: 3026: 3023: 3017: 3014: 3008: 3005: 2999: 2996: 2992: 2986: 2982: 2978: 2973: 2972: 2961: 2957: 2953: 2949: 2948: 2947: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2943: 2942: 2941: 2940: 2926: 2922: 2918: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2908: 2907: 2893: 2890:You add that 2889: 2888: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2863: 2859: 2855: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2848: 2847: 2846: 2845: 2844: 2843: 2842: 2841: 2840: 2825: 2822: 2818: 2814: 2809: 2804: 2801: 2796: 2793: 2788: 2784: 2780: 2779: 2777: 2774: 2773: 2772: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2764: 2753: 2749: 2745: 2741: 2740: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2723: 2719: 2716: 2712: 2708: 2704: 2703: 2702: 2701: 2700: 2699: 2698: 2697: 2686: 2685: 2684: 2683: 2682: 2681: 2680: 2679: 2672: 2668: 2664: 2660: 2659: 2651: 2646: 2645: 2644: 2643: 2642: 2641: 2640: 2639: 2635: 2631: 2620: 2618:9780691027494 2615: 2611: 2604: 2601: 2597: 2589: 2586: 2583: 2582: 2581: 2580: 2577: 2574: 2573: 2566: 2562: 2558: 2554: 2550: 2546: 2545: 2544: 2543: 2539: 2535: 2526: 2520: 2517: 2513: 2507: 2504: 2499: 2495: 2488: 2481: 2478: 2474: 2465: 2461: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2442: 2438: 2434: 2430: 2426: 2422: 2417: 2414: 2410: 2409:Robert Markus 2406: 2402: 2401: 2395: 2394: 2393: 2392: 2391: 2389: 2386: 2385: 2381: 2380: 2371: 2368: 2367: 2360: 2356: 2351: 2350: 2337: 2334: 2333: 2326: 2322: 2317: 2316: 2315: 2312: 2311: 2304: 2300: 2295: 2294: 2293: 2289: 2285: 2280: 2276: 2272: 2271: 2264: 2263: 2262: 2259: 2258: 2251: 2247: 2242: 2241: 2240: 2236: 2232: 2227: 2226: 2219: 2218: 2217: 2216: 2215: 2214: 2211: 2210: 2203: 2199: 2195: 2186: 2180: 2176: 2172: 2169: 2165: 2160: 2159: 2158: 2157: 2156: 2155: 2152: 2151: 2147: 2146: 2135: 2128: 2124: 2123: 2122: 2104: 2100: 2096: 2084: 2083: 2079: 2078: 2077: 2074: 2073: 2069: 2068: 2063: 2062: 2061: 2057: 2053: 2048: 2047: 2043: 2042: 2041: 2037: 2033: 2029: 2028: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2021: 2020: 2019: 2016: 2015: 2011: 2010: 2000: 1996: 1992: 1989: 1985: 1980: 1979: 1976: 1973: 1969: 1965: 1961: 1957: 1948: 1947: 1945: 1941: 1938: 1934: 1930: 1926: 1922: 1913: 1912: 1910: 1907: 1897: 1893: 1889: 1878: 1877: 1873: 1872: 1871: 1868: 1867: 1863: 1862: 1857: 1856: 1855: 1851: 1847: 1843: 1842: 1841: 1837: 1833: 1828: 1827: 1825: 1822: 1818: 1814: 1810: 1805: 1804: 1802: 1799: 1794: 1793: 1792: 1791: 1790: 1784: 1768: 1764: 1760: 1755: 1754: 1750: 1749: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1743: 1742: 1738: 1737: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1726: 1725: 1721: 1720: 1715: 1714: 1713: 1709: 1705: 1700: 1699: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1689: 1685: 1681: 1680: 1679: 1678: 1677: 1676: 1673: 1672: 1668: 1667: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1646: 1642: 1638: 1637: 1635: 1631: 1627: 1623: 1619: 1616: 1612: 1607: 1606: 1604: 1600: 1597: 1596: 1592: 1586: 1582: 1578: 1572: 1563: 1562: 1560: 1557: 1553: 1549: 1545: 1541: 1532: 1531: 1529: 1526: 1522: 1518: 1514: 1509: 1500: 1499: 1498: 1493: 1490: 1486: 1482: 1478: 1473: 1472: 1470: 1466: 1462: 1459: 1455: 1451: 1447: 1442: 1441: 1438: 1437: 1433: 1427: 1423: 1419: 1415: 1406: 1405: 1403: 1400: 1396: 1392: 1388: 1384: 1375: 1374: 1372: 1369: 1361: 1357: 1353: 1348: 1337: 1336: 1335: 1332: 1331: 1327: 1326: 1321: 1316: 1315: 1314: 1310: 1306: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1296: 1293: 1289: 1285: 1281: 1277: 1268: 1267: 1265: 1262: 1261: 1257: 1251: 1247: 1243: 1239: 1237: 1233: 1229: 1224: 1215: 1214: 1211: 1208: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1191: 1182: 1181: 1178: 1174: 1170: 1166: 1162: 1153: 1152: 1150: 1145: 1139: 1138: 1136: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1108: 1107: 1104: 1103: 1099: 1095:Pagan decline 1094: 1088: 1084: 1080: 1076: 1067: 1066: 1064: 1060: 1056: 1055: 1051: 1045: 1041: 1037: 1033: 1024: 1023: 1021: 1017: 1013: 1009: 1005: 1001: 997: 993: 992: 989: 984: 983: 979: 974: 972: 967: 963: 959: 955: 954: 953: 952: 949: 948: 944: 943: 933: 929: 925: 921: 920: 918: 915: 911: 907: 903: 900: 896: 892: 891: 889: 883: 880: 879: 875: 874: 869: 868: 867: 863: 859: 855: 854: 852: 848: 843: 842: 838: 830: 826: 822: 819: 815: 811: 810: 809: 805: 801: 796: 795: 792: 786: 782: 778: 773: 764: 763: 762: 758: 754: 749: 747: 743: 739: 734: 733: 731: 726: 725: 716: 712: 708: 703: 702: 698: 697: 696: 693: 692: 688: 687: 682: 681: 680: 676: 672: 668: 667: 665: 661: 657: 656: 652: 650: 633: 629: 625: 620: 619: 618: 615: 614: 610: 609: 603: 599: 598: 597: 593: 589: 584: 583: 582: 579: 578: 574: 573: 567: 566: 565: 561: 557: 553: 550: 549: 548: 544: 540: 536: 533: 532: 531: 527: 523: 518: 513: 512: 508: 507: 506: 505: 502: 501: 497: 496: 484: 478: 472: 466: 461: 458: 451: 446: 442: 441: 428: 426: 413: 411: 405: 404: 402: 401: 396: 386: 383: 382: 380: 376: 366: 363: 362: 360: 358: 353: 343: 332: 328: 327: 325: 321: 311: 309: 305: 292: 290: 277: 275: 262: 258: 257: 255: 254: 249: 245: 235: 233: 229: 225: 221: 217: 213: 200: 196: 195: 193: 189: 188: 187: 186: 181: 177: 170: 166: 163: 162: 158: 155: 152: 148: 145: 141: 138: 137: 133: 128: 124: 119: 118: 114: 109: 105: 101: 96: 95: 82: 79: 77: 74: 72: 69: 68: 66: 65: 60: 54: 51: 49: 46: 44: 41: 40: 38: 37: 32: 26: 19: 3467: 3448: 3437: 3432: 3385: 3374: 3369: 3365: 3359: 3357: 3354: 3307: 3196: 3186: 3177: 3168: 3159: 3150: 3141: 3132: 3124: 3092: 3074: 3057: 3025: 3016: 3007: 2998: 2990: 2924: 2920: 2861: 2857: 2816: 2812: 2807: 2791: 2762: 2654: 2628: 2609: 2603: 2595: 2568: 2532: 2519: 2506: 2497: 2493: 2480: 2472: 2459: 2455: 2436: 2428: 2396: 2383: 2378: 2374: 2362: 2328: 2306: 2266: 2253: 2221: 2205: 2190: 2167: 2149: 2144: 2142: 2120: 2081: 2071: 2066: 2045: 2026: 2013: 2008: 2005: 1987: 1955: 1920: 1875: 1865: 1860: 1788: 1752: 1740: 1735: 1723: 1718: 1697: 1670: 1665: 1662: 1644: 1614: 1570: 1539: 1507: 1413: 1382: 1346: 1329: 1324: 1275: 1263: 1222: 1189: 1160: 1115: 1074: 1052:Christianity 1031: 970: 946: 941: 938: 898: 877: 872: 817: 771: 700: 690: 685: 648: 612: 607: 576: 571: 516: 510: 499: 494: 490: 449: 444: 443: 422: 407: 398: 384: 378: 364: 355: 341: 330: 323: 301: 286: 271: 261:(references) 260: 251: 247: 209: 198: 191: 153: 143: 142: 135: 131: 117:Article talk 116: 112: 93: 90: 81:Instructions 3329:Howdy Doody 2421:Kate Cooper 2413:Peter Brown 1785:Legislation 1682:Thank you! 1465:Roman–style 1240:Thank you! 224:word choice 104:visual edit 3473:Jenhawk777 3454:Jenhawk777 3392:Jenhawk777 3358:This is a 3337:Jenhawk777 3279:Jenhawk777 3243:Jenhawk777 3198:Jenhawk777 3125:References 2991:References 2952:Jenhawk777 2663:Jenhawk777 2630:Jenhawk777 2596:References 2548:organized. 2534:Jenhawk777 2473:References 2284:Jenhawk777 2231:Jenhawk777 2171:Jenhawk777 2134:blockquote 2095:Jenhawk777 2052:Jenhawk777 2032:Jenhawk777 1991:Jenhawk777 1960:Jenhawk777 1925:Jenhawk777 1888:Jenhawk777 1846:Jenhawk777 1832:Jenhawk777 1809:Jenhawk777 1759:Jenhawk777 1704:Jenhawk777 1684:Jenhawk777 1648:Jenhawk777 1618:Jenhawk777 1577:Jenhawk777 1544:Jenhawk777 1513:Jenhawk777 1477:Jenhawk777 1446:Jenhawk777 1418:Jenhawk777 1387:Jenhawk777 1352:Jenhawk777 1305:Jenhawk777 1280:Jenhawk777 1242:Jenhawk777 1228:Jenhawk777 1195:Jenhawk777 1165:Jenhawk777 1120:Jenhawk777 1079:Jenhawk777 1036:Jenhawk777 996:Jenhawk777 975:Background 958:Jenhawk777 924:Jenhawk777 902:Jenhawk777 858:Jenhawk777 821:Jenhawk777 800:Jenhawk777 777:Jenhawk777 753:Jenhawk777 738:Jenhawk777 707:Jenhawk777 671:Jenhawk777 624:Jenhawk777 588:Jenhawk777 556:Jenhawk777 539:Jenhawk777 522:Jenhawk777 308:plagiarism 253:verifiable 48:Authorship 34:GA toolbox 3468:Vaticidal 3449:Vaticidal 3433:Vaticidal 3386:Vaticidal 3370:Vaticidal 3093:Aftermath 2379:Vaticidal 2145:Vaticidal 2082:Vaticidal 2067:Vaticidal 2046:Vaticidal 2027:Vaticidal 2009:Vaticidal 1944:Tradition 1876:Vaticidal 1861:Vaticidal 1753:Vaticidal 1736:Vaticidal 1719:Vaticidal 1698:Vaticidal 1666:Vaticidal 1325:Vaticidal 1059:30s – 40s 1012:Mithraism 942:Vaticidal 873:Vaticidal 701:Vaticidal 686:Vaticidal 608:Vaticidal 572:Vaticidal 511:Vaticidal 495:Vaticidal 450:Pass/Fail 342:(focused) 144:Reviewer: 71:Templates 62:Reviewing 27:GA Review 3085:*Third: 3065:anymore. 1469:on–going 157:contribs 76:Criteria 3438:prophet 3375:prophet 3260:Avilich 3096:itself. 2977:Avilich 2815:average 2552:people. 2467:itself. 2384:prophet 2150:prophet 2086:around. 2072:prophet 2014:prophet 1866:prophet 1741:prophet 1724:prophet 1671:prophet 1330:prophet 1100:Context 1063:30s–40s 947:prophet 878:prophet 691:prophet 660:MOS:ERA 653:General 613:prophet 577:prophet 500:prophet 445:Overall 304:copyvio 228:fiction 127:history 108:history 94:Article 3058:mostly 3045:*Okay 2862:really 2657:buidhe 2571:buidhe 2399:buidhe 2365:buidhe 2331:buidhe 2309:buidhe 2269:buidhe 2256:buidhe 2224:buidhe 2208:buidhe 1946:here. 400:images 379:stable 377:It is 359:policy 322:It is 246:It is 230:, and 220:layout 190:It is 171:review 3446:Well 2490:(PDF) 2168:Fixed 1988:Fixed 1645:Fixed 1634:power 1615:Fixed 1575:that. 1141:moot. 899:Fixed 818:Fixed 232:lists 174:(see 136:Watch 16:< 3477:talk 3458:talk 3396:talk 3360:very 3341:talk 3314:talk 3283:talk 3247:talk 3230:talk 3202:talk 2981:talk 2956:talk 2748:talk 2709:and 2667:talk 2634:talk 2614:ISBN 2538:talk 2460:this 2456:many 2288:talk 2235:talk 2220:Hey 2175:talk 2099:talk 2056:talk 2036:talk 1995:talk 1964:talk 1956:Done 1929:talk 1921:Done 1892:talk 1850:talk 1836:talk 1813:talk 1763:talk 1708:talk 1688:talk 1652:talk 1622:talk 1581:talk 1571:Done 1548:talk 1540:Done 1517:talk 1508:Done 1481:talk 1467:and 1450:talk 1422:talk 1414:Done 1391:talk 1383:Done 1356:talk 1347:Done 1309:talk 1284:talk 1276:Done 1246:talk 1232:talk 1223:Done 1199:talk 1190:Done 1169:talk 1161:Done 1124:talk 1116:Done 1083:talk 1075:Done 1040:talk 1032:Done 1000:talk 962:talk 928:talk 906:talk 862:talk 839:Lead 825:talk 804:talk 781:talk 772:Done 757:talk 742:talk 711:talk 675:talk 628:talk 592:talk 560:talk 543:talk 526:talk 517:long 306:and 250:and 216:lead 214:for 180:here 176:here 151:talk 123:edit 100:edit 2440:it. 2429:why 2196:. ( 1297:-- 212:MoS 3479:) 3460:) 3398:) 3343:) 3316:) 3285:) 3249:) 3232:) 3204:) 2983:) 2958:) 2750:) 2669:) 2636:) 2567:) 2563:· 2540:) 2498:84 2496:. 2492:. 2361:) 2357:· 2327:) 2323:· 2305:) 2301:· 2290:) 2252:) 2248:· 2237:) 2204:) 2200:· 2177:) 2137:}} 2131:{{ 2101:) 2058:) 2038:) 1997:) 1966:) 1931:) 1894:) 1852:) 1838:) 1815:) 1765:) 1710:) 1690:) 1654:) 1624:) 1583:) 1550:) 1519:) 1483:) 1452:) 1424:) 1393:) 1358:) 1311:) 1286:) 1248:) 1234:) 1201:) 1171:) 1126:) 1085:) 1042:) 1002:) 964:) 930:) 908:) 864:) 827:) 806:) 783:) 759:) 744:) 713:) 677:) 630:) 594:) 562:) 545:) 528:) 480:· 474:· 468:· 452:: 429:: 421:b 414:: 406:a 387:: 381:. 367:: 361:. 344:: 340:b 333:: 329:a 326:. 312:: 300:d 293:: 289:OR 285:c 278:: 270:b 263:: 259:a 256:. 236:: 226:, 222:, 218:, 208:b 201:: 197:a 194:. 169:GA 159:) 125:| 106:| 102:| 3475:( 3456:( 3394:( 3339:( 3312:( 3281:( 3245:( 3228:( 3200:( 3105:* 2979:( 2954:( 2746:( 2665:( 2632:( 2621:. 2565:c 2561:t 2536:( 2514:. 2359:c 2355:t 2353:( 2325:c 2321:t 2303:c 2299:t 2297:( 2286:( 2250:c 2246:t 2233:( 2202:c 2198:t 2173:( 2097:( 2054:( 2034:( 1993:( 1962:( 1927:( 1890:( 1848:( 1834:( 1811:( 1761:( 1706:( 1686:( 1650:( 1620:( 1579:( 1546:( 1515:( 1479:( 1448:( 1420:( 1389:( 1354:( 1307:( 1282:( 1244:( 1230:( 1197:( 1167:( 1122:( 1081:( 1038:( 998:( 960:( 926:( 904:( 860:( 823:( 802:( 779:( 755:( 740:( 709:( 673:( 626:( 590:( 558:( 541:( 524:( 447:: 427:) 412:) 310:) 302:( 291:) 287:( 276:) 234:) 210:( 154:· 149:( 132:· 129:) 121:( 113:· 110:) 98:(

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