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that the overarching transformation in the region since the end of
Ottoman rule has been the (re)conversion of āthe Balkansā into āSouth-eastern Europeā (Todorova 1997; Lampe 2006). The major problem with such views is that the expression āSouth-eastern Europeā refers to a much larger area which nearly always also includes Turkey, Cyprus and Moldova and perhaps ought also to include Georgia, Armenia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan, which also have strong (albeit variously contested) claims to be considered part of Europe. If (as we believe) these countries can be included in a āGreater Europeā defined in functional and empirical terms, rather than on the basis of outmoded cultural, religious or racial prejudices and preconceptions, then they are manifestly located in the south-eastern part of it! We therefore continue to refer to the Balkan Peninsula as āthe Balkansā because that remains the name which most immediately and precisely indicates to most people the region under discussion.
1847:" (2017) for beginning, and then other literature and so on showing the popularization of the term (of course checking Google Books). Southeastern Europe is a better term geographically/conceptually, while the Balkans for some specific cultural aspects/studies or as narrow subset term for Western and Eastern Balkans division. With the term Southeastern Europe is more emphasized heterogenous culture, languages and else of people/countries. Meanwhile with the Balkans a more homogenous/common culture, languages and else of people/countries, but the issue is that is based on outdated 19th century perspectives and narratives because of which the objective value of "Balkanocentrism" and "Balkanism" is highly disputable.--
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geographic meaning, e.g. it definitely spills over into
Ukraine, which is part of Cucuteni-Tripolye, but also normally excludes Illyria, which follows the Cardial pottery route rather than the Linear pottery route). I would prefer trimming some of the prehistoric content of this article down a bit, but keeping the current title of the article as is.
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hence with additional medieval and modern history this article is literally "History of
Southeastern Europe". Perhaps in the current article something about the idea of the Balkans etc. can be added in the modern history sections (and lead as "The history of Southeastern Europe, or the Balkans, ...",
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themselves. Considering all the opposing comments by now, which are showing a significant lack of knowledge and understanding of the topic as if didn't even read the related articles the
Balkans and Southeast Europe, am coming to the conclusion that editors without proper knowledge and understanding
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Some writers on the Balkan
Peninsula claim that āthe āpolitically correctā term Southeastern Europe has more or less replaced the Balkans, because it has become impossible to define a country as āBalkanā without having to explain oneself (Goldsworthy 2002: 34). Other specialists on the region argue
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The
Balkans and parts of this area are alternatively situated in Southeastern, Southern, Eastern Europe and Central Europe. The distinct identity and fragmentation of the Balkans owes much to its common and often turbulent history regarding centuries of Ottoman conquest and to its very mountainous
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No. Balkans are integral-central-big subset of
Southeastern Europe - it IS the same - yet it doesn't include parts of Southeastern Europe important to the understanding of history from prehistoric to modern times and politics of the whole region including the Balkans (like Hungary). Balkans don't
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which is widely quoted here on
Knowledge (XXG)). I don't understand your reasoning, that's the issue with the term Balkans - it is a seriously ill-defined term, made up to include basically everything needed from an ideological and political viewpoint, usually based on 19th century. It does NOT
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It doesn't because the
Balkans are not clearly defined, and conceptually Southeastern Europe has a better/wider meaning, with the Balkans being only a subset or subsets (depending on the definition) of the Southeastern Europe. This information can be literally found in the article Balkans and
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You're the one who brought prehistoric history up. That's the only place I've seen the term "Southeastern Europe" used with any frequency. I agree it doesn't coincide with the
Balkans. That's why this page (which is not merely about prehistoric Balkans) needs to remain at the current title.
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Ukraine has nothing to do with the Balkans and Southeastern Europe and there's no point of using as an example prehistoric cultures which aren't following modern divisions of Europe. The Balkans could be sufficiently recognizable but not its meaning because there is no one definition of the
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Not really an improvement. "Balkans" is sufficiently recognizable, even if imprecise. "Southeastern Europe" is less common and has a different range, e.g. is Ukraine part of "Southeastern Europe"? I haven't really seen the term used outside of prehistoric studies (where it has a different
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It is kind-off explained alright. Anyway, thanks for trying to understand & citation. People still have significant misunderstanding of these two terms. I guess it is needed much longer discussion between editors who are more informed about the topic or willing like you to understand
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line up geographically with anything, it is ill-defined, limited, outdated anthropological-cultural-political misconception about the "Balkan" people/countries from the 19th century, influenced by various viewpoints on Ottoman held territories and (Greater) Serbian academia. --
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When people hear "The Balkans" they know where that is on a map. I've never heard anyone refer to that region as Southeastern Europe or remember reading it in a book or peer reviewed paper. I think the problem is in part that there's more then just geography at play.
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is widely cited on English Knowledge (XXG), as are other books using such terminology in the title and text. Google Books search (Southeastern Europe has 42.800.000; Southeast Europe 7.850.000; Balkans only 5.340.000 results). Scientific peer-review journal
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They don't, Balkans is ill-defined term. It is unbelievable that someone didn't hear or read the term Sourtheastern Europe by 2024. Knowledge (XXG) has articles titled Southeast Europe and starting with Southeastern European. Romanian historian
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Consensus that the term "Southeastern Europe" is not widely used for the region discussed in the article; it was also observed that even when "Southeastern Europe" is used, it tends to have a different geographic scope than "the Balkans".
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No, the article Prehistory of Southeastern Europe was brought because of the title (the content is secondary). And no, Southeastern Europe is often used in scientific literature regarding ancient, medieval and other periods (e.g.
1481:/Southeastern Europe hence on Knowledge (XXG) we should not promote the term Balkans more than needed. As second, there's no distinct identity, fragmentation is part of a much wider political and sociological context studied by
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It isn't only about the recognizability or common use - it is about quality, style and language. With the Knowledge (XXG) promoting such a term like the Balkans there's won't be much improvement as well.--
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Omg... I give up. Commentary by editors as if are "living under a rock", without basic common knowledge and info available in the related articles as well as three clicks away (including your Romanian
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to better reflect the sources particularly AltiÄ (i was struggling a bit with the Croatian so i'm not comfortable citing it but it has a detailed account of the challenges and benefits of both terms)ā
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I was about to cleanup the article, but was stopped. There are clear problem tags at the top. This article is not suited for intricate detail ā summarization of content is needed.
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1991:" among many other acaddemic liteature, EU and other organizations using, discussing, replacing it), this became utterly pointless. It is so stupid it cannot be more stupid. --
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the scope of the article is clearly defined. Again I see no evidence of "Balkans" being replaced by "Southeastern Europe" or of the term being controverisal or ill-defined.
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Southeast Europe. It is common knowledge. It is utterly pointless getting opinions without prior making a minimal effort to read and understand the topic in question.--
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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
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Cleanup. Summarize. Clear overview sections. Add actual sources and references. There are countless links in See also for those wanting detail .--
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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I think it's a good idea but given that it's a sensitive area, I'd recommend outlining what you plan to do and check that people agree.
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You're the only here expressing opinions. I still see no evidence from English-language academic literature of the points you argue.
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and Altic ultimately concludes that both are problematic and begrudgingly settles on Croatia being in the 'western Balkans' ā
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our
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Without evidence that 'Southeast Europe' is more recognizable or commonly used than 'Balkans' this is not an improvementā
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coincide with geographic criteria for a peninsula neither has only geographic meaning such as Southeastern Europe.--
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The issue is that 'Southeastern Europe' in a purely geographical sense does not line up with 'Balkans'ā
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but the whole scope and title should not mention the Balkans per se. As fourth, there is no article
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etc., so it is confusing there's one for Southeastern Europe and even more named as the "Balkans".
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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a region that was previously known as the Balkans but is now better known as Southeastern Europe
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of the topic shouldn't even give a vote. Otherwise this request move is becoming meaningless.--
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The meaning of the Western Balkans concept for the EU: genuine inclusion or polite exclusion?
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Neither of the two sources used for this claim in either article support this claim in full.
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https://www.berghahnbooks.com/downloads/OpenAccess/MishkovaEuropean/MishkovaEuropean_07.pdf
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See comment above for more details and evidence/claim can be found in the article of the
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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
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You haven't presented evidence for that either, Either way it is
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The Routledge Handbook of Balkan and Southeast European History
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Definitional Dilemmas: Southeastern Europe as 'Culture Area'?
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unless 'south east europe' is recognizable or commonly usedā
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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
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Additionally, the grammar needs a lot of attention.
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1861:Also check things like this "
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1570:11:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
1555:10:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
1194:and see a list of open tasks.
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1835:Also read "
1423:move review
1030:Å kofja Loka
1011:Pavel Golia
633:is part of
148:free images
31:not a forum
2068:Categories
2013:References
1560:Balkans.--
1531:(šššš)
1523:Relisting.
1471:geography.
1432:not moved.
1057:Äop Street
663:open tasks
651:discussion
446:open tasks
438:discussion
1908:blindlynx
1886:(2021) -
1828:blindlynx
1814:blindlynx
1782:blindlynx
1738:blindlynx
1707:blindlynx
1655:Dr vulpes
1615:blindlynx
1577:Walrasiad
1547:Walrasiad
1391:AnomieBOT
1007:Litostroj
259:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1594:'s book
1452:contribs
1116:Take/Add
1061:Radenska
968:Requests
878:Slovenia
869:Slovenia
825:Slovenia
556:Bulgaria
547:Bulgaria
503:Bulgaria
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1987:; and "
1839:" and "
1747:Balkans
1475:Balkans
1241:Cleanup
1197:History
1188:History
1147:History
1100:suggest
1086:Update
1039:Expand:
1021:Cleanup
932:history
905:on the
800:on the
695:on the
583:on the
478:on the
451:Albania
429:Albania
395:Albania
370:on the
261:C-class
207:30Ā days
154:WPĀ refs
142:scholar
1934:Oppose
1734:WP:RGW
1703:oppose
1660:(Talk)
1648:Oppose
1542:Oppose
1268:Jeppiz
1249:Jeppiz
1107:assess
1098:, and
990:Wikify
773:Serbia
764:Serbia
720:Serbia
668:Kosovo
642:Kosovo
608:Kosovo
267:scale.
126:Google
1790:it.--
1365:From
1342:From
1284:oupan
1257:oupan
1105:Help
1048:Stubs
959:watch
942:purge
937:watch
248:This
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1997:talk
1975:talk
1961:talk
1942:talk
1898:talk
1875:talk
1869:".--
1853:talk
1808:and
1796:talk
1760:talk
1749:and
1724:talk
1690:talk
1629:talk
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1581:talk
1566:talk
1551:talk
1526:- š„
1516:talk
1448:talk
1377:ISBN
1354:ISBN
1331:this
1300:talk
1272:talk
1088:News
1067:NPOV
984:(sl)
977:(sl)
927:edit
362:High
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2039:doi
1892:.--
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