Talk:Hurricane (clipper)/GA1

1971:, I think it's a little unfair to be putting the blame entirely on me for the failure of this GAN (and for the other one about Captain Gregory). You disappeared from this GAN and the other in June, and indeed have barely made an edit on Knowledge (XXG) since; had you shown a little more interest in pursuing these nominations, I might have been more diligent in responding to your concerns. And in fact I did leave the door open for you to pursue both these noms were you so inclined, and you turned the opportunity down. So I think it fair to say that their lack of progress hasn't just been due to 1871:, it has been over three months since the most recent post here, and aside from two inconsequential changes to the article (a single word and a new wikilink), nothing has been done. It's time for this to be concluded, one way or another, and I'd like to suggest a deadline no later than the end of September. There appear to be attributions and/or quote paraphrasing that Gatoclass needs to address, and if it isn't done, then Usernameunique will need to decide whether the article should be passed or failed in its current condition. Thank you both for giving this your attention. 1673:, both Getoclass and I have been suffering from some time constraints, although the present delay in this article is probably more attributable to me. While you're here, however, perhaps you wouldn't mind weighing in on the heavy use of unattributed quotations in this article. My general view is that most of the quotations should be either paraphrased or attributed; as I understand Gatoclass, he largely believes that the quotations are difficult to paraphrase, and that the in-line attributions cause clutter. The 2000:, I might add, appears to have been quite a common name for ships, given that they were named after a prominent Indian moghul. Additionally, Howe and Matthews are highly regarded sources and if even they didn't know what happened to the ship after it was sold to the British, chances are that nobody does. Perhaps if you were more familiar with ship histories, you would be aware that the later histories of a great many ships are not known, as they are inclined to sink ever deeper into obscurity as they age. 42: 181:

ship articles to be explaining basic terms like "extreme clipper" and "tons burthen", otherwise you would have stacks of repetition in every such article encountered - this is what we have wikilinks for. Content for articles has to be on-topic, and digressions about every nautical term encountered in ship articles would soon make them unreadable.

1623:. I worked hard to add context to this article because it is often sorely lacking in the underlying references as the writers often seem to assume that the reader will know what they are talking about. But I think you've been of great assistance in helping identify some areas that still needed additional context, thank you for that! 2009:

if I've had much time to devote to these. The bottom line with regard to this particular nomination, though, is that since starting it, I found a good additional source which will enable me to add quite a bit more detail, but that is going to take time and energy that I'm afraid I just don't have available at the moment.

2003:

Finally, perhaps I should add that I unexpectedly became extremely busy off-wiki in late April, and just as I got through all the work and was ready to return to editing in early July, suffered a recurrence of a crippling back injury that I first had last year and was barely able to edit for the next

1425:

referred to is the same ship. I also checked US and British registers and found nothing more than is already in the article. It appears from the available sources that the ship was homeported in Singapore after its sale, and if a ship wasn't homeported in some Western country at this time in history,

637:

Update: I did some research on this, and there is very little information on it, though from what I've read, I glean that rolling topsails were an invention that allowed the crew to furl and unfurl the topmast from the deck, instead of having to go aloft to do it. None of the available online sources

1835:

in the first case would be worthwhile, though it could be handled in a note rather than in-text attribution if the latter proves awkward. (There are already attributions in the notes, which seems to work.) The problem with the second one, a phrase from the Fairburn source (and presumably by Fairburn

1420:

I'm usually very thorough in my search for sources, and while this article was sitting in my sandbox for quite a while before I promoted it, my recollection is that I followed my usual procedures in writing it. Regardless, I have had another look through the usual places after you made this inquiry,

2008:

been able to edit, it was largely to push forward with the ten GAN reviews of my own which I had to make a priority over my own two nominations. It's only in the last three or four weeks that I've been able to return to anything like normal editing, and even then only intermittently, so it's not as

911:

I think we generally agree on this point—the guy was a capable captain, and the evidence for that is that he set a bunch of records. In fact, I tended to read the wording about "Nearly 100 years later" as saying that he was still notable a century after setting sail. At any rate, I think it's worth

885:

The source includes the language, but without clicking over to the book it's unclear whether it's repeating what someone with firsthand knowledge said, or simply guessing that since the ship set records, its captain was capable. See what you think of my edit, which I think makes it more clear where

276:

I don't see the need to cite every source in the article itself per Harvard, when the quote itself is already cited to a source, which is directly accessible with a link. The reason I directly quoted is because I couldn't think of an improvement on "fast sizeable ships" - it's pretty succinct after

660:

Yes, definitely worth a footnote I think. Thank you BTW for pushing me on this point - I had asked myself what the heck a "rolling topsail" might be but decided not to bother trying to source it as it would likely prove too obscure, so your prod forced me to find out! The average reader, I'm sure,

512:

I think you are making a big assumption that the claim originates with the owner - that would be OR. Adding "including the ship's owner" would tend to cast undue doubt on the claim I think. "Owners" after all are not "authorities", and it's hard to imagine that leading sources such as Fairburn and

493:

What's interesting is that the sources all clearly hedge the language—it's always "Some authorities claimed" or "Some authorities maintain", while the NYT puts the language in italics, as if to say its not their claim. It seems highly likely that it was a claim offered by the ship's builder/owner,

1953:

I'm closing this for the reasons discussed above. There are numerous unresolved minor issues above. There are also the many quoted phrases that lack attributions. Although this is not a big deal by itself, the more serious issue is the fact that it is clear that far more sources potentially exist

1037:

Yes, everything went around the cape at this time, that may be worthwhile clarifying. As for cargo - definitely, passengers, almost certainly, though I was unable to confirm it - thousands wanted to get to the goldfields at this time. Unfortunately, there is zero information in any of the sources

180:

If you are not familiar at all with ship articles from the age of sail, you are going to encounter a bit of a learning curve. I've been playing about in this field for some years and have barely scratched the surface when it comes to nomenclature. Having said that, it is not the job of individual

1836:

himself) is that to introduce Fairburn here doesn't make as much sense as where he is introduced later in the article; perhaps that also could be in a note. However, this one might indeed be better as a paraphrase—the quote isn't needed to get across that Very was an effective captain.

172:

Within the first 10 words are two terms I didn't know until clicking on the links: extreme clipper and tons burthen. Perhaps the first could be explained somewhere (second sentence?)? As to the tons burthen, is that really first-sentence worthy, or could it go elsewhere in the

1978:

Also, with regard to your claim that I have failed to adequately research this topic, I stand by what I said earlier, which is that I was unable to find any later sources that unambiguously refer to this ship. The handful of references you found to a ship called

1405:— Nothing at all? Are there no newspaper reports or the like? After all, the source used for this statement is nearly 100 years old; surely more evidence could have been found in this time. A very cursory look on newspapers.com revealed several mentions, such as 638:

are sufficiently clear however. As luck would have it, I managed to track down one sole volume that looks as if it might have a full definition, but may not be able to get my hands on it for some weeks, so this will have to be something I attend to later.

1250:

Cutler is a major figure in US marine historiography. Since he's so well known and ubiquitous to articles of this type, it would seem patronizing to me to give his full name (which of course is right there in the source for those who want to know

1135:— Any more details on the Cape Horn incident? Also, the current wording—"but was beset" by XY&Z ailments—makes it sound as if it was going to be a much worse crossing voyage than the first, when it turns out it was only three days slower. 1954:

regarding the ship's post-1857 history than the nominator has uncovered. The article could very likely become a good article with some effort; certainly, however, it can't with a nominator who admittedly "don't care about this GAN." --

1983:

in the 1860s are linked to the topic of this article only by the name and period, and that alone just isn't enough, as ships with the same name often operate at the same time. Indeed, newspaper records show that there was a ship named

1939:, I am more than happy to close this as I don't have time to work on it right now, but have also decided it needs considerably more work before being renominated. So if it's all the same to Usernameunique, it's fine by me to close it. 1758:

In belated response to the question above: if there is a quote, it should be cited inline, and those citations definitely need to be included in a GA-level article per the criteria. As it says in the second paragraph of the

1893:

one as I only started them both to try and stay in the Wikicup and that horse has long since bolted. If Usernameunique wants to continue, then I will soldier on, otherwise I'm happy for you to close them anytime.

1655:, where does this nomination stand? It's been three weeks since this page was last touched, though there have been some edits made to the article within the past week. Can we get this moving again? Many thanks. 641:

Sounds good. That's pretty interesting, and probably worthy of a post-GAN footnote (or even a stub) when you track down the book. Also, anything you can use (with regards to rolling topsails or otherwise) from

1710:

With that said, would you mind providing your views on a) the use of unattributed quotations here, and b) the extent to which this should be a relevant concern at the good-article nomination stage? Thanks,

847:, a reviewer "may also make suggestions for further improvements". The relevance to the current GAN is thus that I'm making a suggestion that to further improve the article, red links be added if worthy. -- 1801:

The bow was decorated with a "very handsome" eagle's head, which had a ribbon flowing from its mouth upon which was inscribed the ship's name in gilt letters, the whole creating "a very novel appearance."

327:

that contain the typo, or do other types of sources as well? If the latter, how many? And I suppose it's too much to ask for that there's actually a source out there which independently notes the typo...

1812:

It seems to me that most such instances should either be paraphrased or given in-text attribution; but this is not quite as clear cut as whether they should be cited (which they unquestionably should).

359:- which is almost certainly how the error has crept in to some later sources. To clarify this in the text, I will add one of those editions to the footnote, along with an advertisement for C. W. & 1996:

are almost certainly references to that ship. But even if they are not, there is no way to differentiate between the two vessels and thus these mentions are useless as references for this article.

643: 495: 1453:. Although it appears to have been homeported in Asia, its repeated mention in Western publications makes me wonder if other Western publications might mention it—and provide the link between the 1421:

and again I was unable to come up with anything. The two articles you cite above were the only ones I found at newspapers.com myself, and they can't be used because it isn't at all clear that the

1797:. I was actually wondering about the use of in-text attribution, not citations. The quotations in question are cited; however, the text does not explain who is being quoted. Some examples are: 434:

Got it, I didn't realize "built of live oak" was likely a reference to the hull. See what you think about this rewording to ditch the basic quotation: "and a top made of live oak and

227:

It's already linked in the lead and the infobox, so I saw no need for an additional link. Nor do I see any need to explain what an extreme clipper is in this article—that's what the

587:"graceful" ... "very handsome" ... "a very novel appearance." ... "that could be read much further than any signals and looked very smart and shipshape." ... "truly beautiful ship" 1732:, friendly reminder about this review. The most significant outstanding issues are the many quotations without in-text attribution, and the possibility that information about the 431:

I don't think that would be accurate, because it omits the type of wood used for the hull, which is presumably what the source means when it says the ship was built of live oak.

1182:

I know what "ballast" means, it was the jargony phrase "in ballast" I was wondering about. As this is explained in a section of the ballast article, I've linked "in ballast" to

1806:

Captain Very Jr. would prove to be "a capable master and good navigator", under whose command Hurricane would set or equal a number of point-to-point or port-to-port records.

47: 1765:

All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material.

844: 80: 570:

It was said that no other vessel had lines below water "sweeter than those of the Hurricane, for, in her, resistance to driving through water was reduced to a minimum."

70: 126: 916:

would set or equal a number of point-to-point or port-to-port records; nearly a century later, he was assessed "a capable master and good navigator"." --

473:

Again, it's cited directly to a newspaper. I don't want to be cluttering up the article with names of cites everywhere, it distracts from the narrative.

122: 617:

is a wooden beam that carries a sail -"spar" is linked earlier in the paragraph. "Loftily sparred" simply means there are spars high above the ship.

52: 498:): "The HURRICANE is the sharpest Clipper ever built". Perhaps "According to some authorities, including the ship's owner," Hurricane was ..."? -- 107: 1030:— What was the purpose of the voyage (e.g., transporting cargo, or taking passengers)? At the time, did this entail a trip around South America? 187:

Blunt or not, it doesn't address the question whether "tons burthen" is "really first-sentence worthy, or could it go elsewhere in the lead". --

317:. The misname is in all the editions, so I didn't see much point in singling any of them out, but I can do that if you think it's necessary. 769:

with some seeing the event not merely as the launch of an exceptional ship, but as a symbol of the growing confidence of the young Republic.

156: 99: 184:

Apologies if that last comment came across as a bit blunt - I was getting very tired by the time I came to respond to this last night.

840: 661:

would be just as mystified as us and will appreciate the addition. Thanks for the source BTW, I may take a closer look at that later.

75: 702:

witnessed by an "immense concourse" of spectators. After the launch, the vessel "remained afloat several days with nearly all her

719:

Again, the cite is right there at the end of the sentence, but I'll add an additional one at the end of the quote if you like.

1125:

departed on her second New York–to–San Francisco voyage on 9 August 1853, but was beset by much calm weather, and lost her

912:

clarifying what exactly the evidence of his capability is. What about something like: "Under Captain Very Jr.'s command,

829:

Possibly, I haven't had time to do any research on them. I'm not sure what relevance this has to the current GAN though.

984:, had already been organized for the vessel, but some weeks were to pass after launch before the ship was ready to sail. 634:

I don't know, but there are those who will read an article like this to whom the phrase will presumably mean something.

1674: 1494: 1691: 1686: 730: 1426:

it will frequently just vanish from the documentary record, which is what appears to have occurred in this case.

837:

Red links for subjects that should have articles but do not, are not only acceptable, but needed in the articles.

269:— Whose words? Unless the speaker is notable, the quotation seems pretty banal and could probably be paraphrased. 1601:, although I'm a bit concerned about relying on a 1926 source to say that almost nothing after 1857 is known. -- 900:

Sorry, but I didn't like that edit at all and have reverted. Again, it is casting undue doubt on the source. We

1959: 1818: 1741: 1716: 1626:

Anyhow, I think I have responded to all your comments above now. Please let me know if I have missed anything.

1606: 1572: 1507:. Seems as good as any an excuse to switch to short citations (as you can see, I've done two of these already). 1466: 1254:

On reflection, it doesn't do any harm to add his full name, so I've done so, and added that he was a historian.

1191: 921: 891: 852: 746: 651: 503: 452:

The thing is, I don't know what "top" refers to, so I think it's better just to let the quote speak for itself.

443: 333: 257: 192: 150: 115: 17: 996:

Okay, I just removed the middle phrase, since it was pretty pointless anyhow and the cause of the confusion.

557:

Sorry, I should have linked that. I will do it when I come back to this tomorrow, as I am about to log off.

1699:"), since the page on verifiability instructs that "when quoting or closely paraphrasing a source use an 986:— Unclear if this means the voyage was delayed, or just that some time passed between launch and sailing. 1876: 1841: 1772: 1660: 832: 481:

According to some authorities, Hurricane was "the sharpest sailing ship ever constructed by any builder

339:

Sorry, in my haste to respond to all your queries yesterday, I screwed this up a bit. The "C. W. &

1361:

Probably not, 99.9% of ship captains were not written about, only a handful achieved a higher profile.

1041:

Added a word about typical cargoes going to San Francisco at this time, and about passenger bookings.

800:— It's unclear whether the father you're talking about is Samuel Very Jr. or John Crowninshield Very. 2014: 1968: 1955: 1944: 1910: 1899: 1864: 1828: 1814: 1737: 1712: 1648: 1631: 1620: 1602: 1568: 1462: 1187: 1060:

Naval sources skip the "on"'s, and I follow suit as they tend to get very tiresome with repetition.

993:

Yes, I noticed that myself when reading through the article again the other day. I'll rephrase it.

946: 917: 887: 848: 742: 647: 538:

Good question. I don't know why, or even if, it matters - however, it does help describe the ship.

499: 439: 329: 253: 188: 146: 92: 1704: 1700: 736: 1890: 1567:

It's not necessary, but it's easy to do and (at least to me) looks cleaner. I've just done it. --

1501: 792: 1543:

Inconsistency in whether state names are spelled out (New York, Maine) or abbreviated (CT, NC).

1928: 1886: 1872: 1837: 1794: 1768: 1670: 1656: 1682: 228: 2010: 1940: 1914: 1895: 1868: 1729: 1652: 1627: 1598: 942: 703: 1760: 1678: 977: 1992:

was still going by her original name, and all these later references you found to a

1369:

From San Francisco, Hurricane sailed for Singapore 3 September, arriving 7 November.

2018: 1963: 1948: 1936: 1931: 1920: 1903: 1880: 1845: 1822: 1776: 1745: 1720: 1664: 1635: 1610: 1576: 1470: 1195: 1114:

The source just says "according to published accounts" with no further elucidation.

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of his outstanding record. Lousy captains didn't set records all over the globe.

1150:

is said to have "never been bettered and seldom equalled for August departures."

981: 1685:)". This is broadly incorporated into the second good article criterion ("A 1130: 531:— Why does that matter? Also, some redundancy with "though ... nonetheless". 406: 385: 1450: 1446: 1442: 1438: 1434: 1430: 1410: 1406: 1216:

Convert done, thanks. The entire trip was 100 days, as it says in the text.

1493:

I'm getting harv errors in the bibliography, which appears to be because

417: 381: 1564:

Is that really necessary? The link works whether or not it has hyphens.

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the description of "a capable master and good navigator" comes from. --

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where appropriate"—but it's more of a tangential than primary concern.

413: 392: 684:

Yes, I should have added some links. I will do so tomorrow, thanks.

220:— Perhaps link extreme clipper here, but also explain what it means. 1015:

There should be, I'll take a look around and see what I can find.

973: 904:

that Very Jr. was "a capable master and good navigator" precisely

525:

though her model fore and aft is nonetheless said to have avoided

1085:

has been described as "only once beaten and only twice equalled"

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thereafter completing the final leg to San Francisco in 24 days

820:

Samuel W. Very ... John Crowninshield Very ... Samuel W. Very

1209:— Convert to km as well? Also, how long was the entire trip? 1241:

both legs were later verified by Cutler as all-time records

323:

What do you mean by "editions"? Is it just editions of the

1429:

There are a lot more than two articles at newspapers.com:

1233:

Six to seven months - added a note to that effect, thanks.

1070:— Did the final leg start at the equator, or at some port? 1529:

Cutler 1952 should have an OCLC or other identifier/link.

494:

given that it appears in the advertisement for the ship (

298:, an error consequently duplicated by some later sources. 267:"no previous experiences in building fast sizeable ships" 1988:

operating between India and Great Britain in 1859, when

1461:

that is needed to ensure that they are the same ship. --

239:

The ship was originally referred to in press reports as

1133:; she arrived at San Francisco after a 123-day passage. 675:

in contradiction of contemporaneous newspaper accounts.

134: 103: 712:— Whose words? Also, quotations need inline citations. 839:

They're obviously not required at GAN (see footnote

1889:, I really don't care about either this GAN nor the 1677:

holds that "In-text attribution should be used with

1403:

little is known about the vessel's subsequent career

1296:

an unsuccessful attempt was made to sell the vessel.

1279:"not beaten or equalled for many years thereafter." 1226:— How long did a normal trip in a normal ship take? 930:

Sorry, but I much prefer the existing wording here.

755:

Oops, forgot to add the reference for that - fixed.

1919:Another month. Maybe it is time to call this one. 1681:(a source's words between quotation marks or as a 280:"and his first time building a fast sizeable ship" 244:— This seems incorrect; the source says that the 1767:That's unambiguous, and a clear GA requirement. 1281:— According to who? When was it qualled or beat? 1207:the ship was only 1,040 miles from San Francisco 725:The inline citation in question is needed after 513:Howe & Matthews would describe them as such. 1457:and the ship that appears in newspapers as the 778:It's a summary of the quotations that follow. 8: 1378:See my reply to the 9 February query above. 1344:It's the only information the source gives. 1322:See my reply to the 9 February query above. 1224:nonetheless outstanding passage of 100 days 1129:and foretopgallant mast in the vicinity of 1516: 1480: 218:, an extreme clipper, was built in Hoboken 30: 941:Thanks for volunteering for the review. 1831:. I think adding an attribution to the 882:Again, it's right there in the source. 550:What's a deadrise? Anything to link to? 61: 33: 1805: 1800: 1764: 1402: 1385: 1368: 1351: 1335:reportedly in hopes of finding a buyer 1334: 1312: 1295: 1278: 1240: 1223: 1206: 1166: 1149: 1121: 1101: 1084: 1067: 1050: 1027: 1005: 964: 872: 836: 819: 807:Okay, I'll take another look at that. 790: 768: 734: 726: 701: 674: 624: 603: 586: 569: 524: 480: 466:— Same point re: speaker/paraphrasing. 463: 376: 289: 266: 238: 214: 1094:Again, the source does not elucidate. 873:"a capable master and good navigator" 7: 1557:Knoblock 2014 — ISBN not hyphenated. 735:quotations ... must be supported by 710:in her", a tribute to her stability. 1371:— "on 3 September"/"on 7 November"? 1038:about the type of cargoes carried. 1264:— Called Calcutta at the time, no? 1179:is linked earlier in the article. 727:"immense concourse" of spectators. 464:"thoroughly salted on the stocks." 24: 1313:sailed from San Francisco 16 June 861:Okay, thanks for the explanation. 355:in the 1859 and 1861 editions of 307:As the note says, the cite is to 290:The firm is misnamed C. W. & 363:Thomas to demonstrate the error. 1354:— Any details? Red-link worthy? 1337:— What's the evidence for this? 1167:returned to New York in ballast 1904:19:05, 17 September 2020 (UTC) 1881:17:46, 17 September 2020 (UTC) 1184:Ballast#In commercial shipping 1051:resumed her journey 9 February 596:Again, both sources are cited. 1: 1495:ref = harv is now the default 416:and frame, and a top made of 2019:09:55, 27 October 2020 (UTC) 1964:06:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC) 1949:04:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 1932:22:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC) 1107:— Who says so/on what basis? 395:and frame and "live oak and 1860:Time to conclude the review 1827:Ah. Thanks for explaining, 1077:At the equator - clarified. 2043: 2004:three months - and when I 1675:relevant content guideline 1611:19:11, 25 April 2020 (UTC) 1577:18:11, 26 April 2020 (UTC) 1305:No, the source gives none. 1028:New York for San Francisco 951:19:20, 25 April 2020 (UTC) 926:04:41, 27 April 2020 (UTC) 896:18:23, 26 April 2020 (UTC) 857:04:32, 27 April 2020 (UTC) 751:04:01, 27 April 2020 (UTC) 706:aloft, without a pound of 656:04:13, 27 April 2020 (UTC) 508:18:43, 26 April 2020 (UTC) 448:18:43, 26 April 2020 (UTC) 248:was incorrectly named the 161:18:11, 25 April 2020 (UTC) 1846:00:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC) 1823:19:21, 14 June 2020 (UTC) 1777:19:01, 14 June 2020 (UTC) 1746:15:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC) 1159:Source doesn't elucidate. 1721:21:43, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 1665:20:06, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 1471:20:48, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 1196:21:47, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 349:New York Marine Register 343:Thomas error appears in 325:New York Marine Register 315:New York Marine Register 262:21:08, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 197:21:01, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 18:Talk:Hurricane (clipper) 1636:13:48, 2 May 2020 (UTC) 1352:Captain Ichabod Sherman 959:Very captaincy, 1851–57 579:The source doesn't say. 209:Construction and design 1388:— Who bought the ship? 1169:— What does this mean? 1087:— Who described it so? 1008:— Anything to link to? 1006:mizzen topgallant mast 972:s launch, a voyage to 541:"Nonetheless" deleted. 300:— Anything to cite to? 1597:Interesting article, 1142:Reworked prose a bit. 791:and father of future 1697:no original research 845:the GAN instructions 490:Source doesn't say. 1705:in-text attribution 1395:Source doesn't say. 1298:— Any more details? 1288:Source doesn't say. 1018:Now linked, thanks. 483:— What authorities? 1891:William D. Gregory 1271:Converted, thanks. 1053:— "on 9 February"? 833:Generally speaking 822:— Worth red links? 793:United States Navy 1975:lack of interest. 1588: 1587: 1513: 1512: 89: 88: 2034: 1918: 1517: 1506: 1500: 1481: 971: 737:inline citations 731:WP:Verifiability 627:— What're those? 625:rolling topsails 139: 130: 111: 43:Copyvio detector 31: 2042: 2041: 2037: 2036: 2035: 2033: 2032: 2031: 1908: 1862: 1701:inline citation 1683:block quotation 1646: 1589: 1522: 1514: 1504: 1498: 1486: 1315:— "on 16 June"? 1243:— Who's Cutler? 969: 798:Samuel W. Very. 604:loftily sparred 357:American Lloyds 310:American LLoyds 296:American Lloyds 231:article is for. 229:extreme clipper 120: 97: 91: 85: 57: 29: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2040: 2038: 2030: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2026: 2025: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2021: 2001: 1976: 1969:Usernameunique 1956:Usernameunique 1911:Usernameunique 1865:Usernameunique 1861: 1858: 1857: 1856: 1855: 1854: 1853: 1852: 1851: 1850: 1849: 1848: 1833:New York Times 1829:Usernameunique 1815:Usernameunique 1810: 1809: 1808: 1803: 1784: 1783: 1782: 1781: 1780: 1779: 1751: 1750: 1749: 1748: 1738:Usernameunique 1736:is omitted. -- 1724: 1723: 1713:Usernameunique 1708: 1649:Usernameunique 1645: 1642: 1641: 1640: 1639: 1638: 1624: 1621:Usernameunique 1614: 1613: 1603:Usernameunique 1586: 1585: 1584: 1583: 1582: 1581: 1580: 1579: 1569:Usernameunique 1559: 1558: 1554: 1553: 1552: 1551: 1545: 1544: 1540: 1539: 1538: 1537: 1531: 1530: 1524: 1523: 1520: 1515: 1511: 1510: 1509: 1508: 1488: 1487: 1484: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 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