2333:, which says "Well, what they've found is a strong inverse correlation between funniness and a property called entropy. This is a way of expressing how usual the letters in the NWs are – so the less commonly they're used in English, the lower the total entropy of the NW. To put it another way, the less 'wordy' these NWs are, the more they strike us as humorous. ... The more it violates our expectations – again, the less 'wordy' it is – the more funny we find it. The authors also ran a quick analysis of some of the NWs used in the Dr Seuss books – like rumbus, skritz and yuzz-a-ma-tuzz – and found that they score low on entropy, making them particularly funny."
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I just came to this page because Jimbo recently said again that this was his favourite article. We also see multiple accolades in external media coverage. The article has been nominated for deletion four times but the result each time was to keep it. The most recent nomination by
Sangdeboeuf was
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when the series was copied into other newspapers near and far, Podunk became an accepted symbol for bucolic coma. No doubt that process was helped along by the “k” in its name, for “k,” for some occult reason, has always appealed to the oafish risibles of the
American plain people, and its presence
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Well, I think funny phrases or trick words. With these two talents you can surprise your listener. Writing poetry with one punch line or more can really crack up the editor. Titles can be much funnier when you pick up the slack and get slapped in the mouth for slapstick. A catchy title may sound
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merge; since the discussion was last active, there have been several reverenced additions to a wider range of sources, suggesting that the topic does not reflect just a short-lived news story. Any objections to a close for a discussion with arguments which were valid at the time, but are no longer
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article: "As it turns out, there's a kind of "Goldilocks Zone" of nonsense words: A word like "anotain" got fewer laughs because it looks more like a real word, while "pranomp" got more because it looks just silly enough." The notion of a "Goldilocks Zone" seems to mean that a word needs to seem
1364:
It's certainly true that wikipedia articles can invisibility circle around online to become sources for themselves, but you've created that problem here by removing legitimate sources that get around that issue - e.g., Neil Simon's "The
Sunshine Boys" of 1972 which mentions the k-words-are-funny
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would be a class or group of words (if they existed, which is not conclusively shown). We don't have a source to support a firm definition (such as "An inherently funny word is a word that..."), so the title should default to the name of the real or imaginary class of inherently funny
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on 6 August 2014. He mentioned 'badger' as an example, which doesn't appear at all in the main article, though it is widely discussed on this talk page. Perhaps a section on funny animal names is warranted on the main page? This could also include 'duck' (prominently discussed) and
2184:: The article discusses the property that is asserted to make a word seem funny, so a word that has more of this property is suggested to be a more inherently funny word, and a word's degree of funniness can be considered something that can be measured based on a word's
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For that matter, if you want to create a NW that is really highly improbable, instead of things that "make sense" in a way that a child could read properly like the Dr Seuss examples of "rumbus, skritz and yuzz-a-ma-tuzz", you would pick combinations of letters that
2188:. This does not seem to be just a categorization of which words are considered funny and which ones are not, since there is no clear idea of where to draw a line and consider words with entropy below the line to not be funny and those above it to be funny. It's a
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notes in passing that, 'That plosive consonant K sound is known to be among the
English language's funniest phonemes', but once again, if it's so widely known, it's strange that there are so few reliable sources covering it. The idea that
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words being funny isn't just hearsay reinforced through repetition. A different how-to-guide author calls the idea a 'myth', saying, 'The fact is that in the hands – or mouths – of a skilled comedian almost any word can be made funny'.
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Your understanding of acceptable sources as reflected above is, IMHO, ridiculously narrow and academic, and will kill off this article. That would be too bad, but many years on wikipedia has taught me that beating my head against
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of a topic. I haven't found any reliable, independent, secondary sources that address the subject in detail beyond the few about the one study by
Westbury et al. already cited in the article. If there are more, please add them.
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has deleted many of them. I recognize that only minimal research has been done, but this is a well-bounded topic, very appropriate for an article. What currently exists in this article currently achieves notability in my eyes.
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Section "Rudeness and entropy" claims that "whong", "dongl", "shart", and "focky" are funny because they are nonsense words with a shape similar to that of sexual slang. But at least two of them are in fact sexual slang:
1786:
See above comments about significant coverage of the topic (not the article) in reliable sources. "Accolades" in external media are irrelevant to whether an article meets
Wikpedia's policies and guidelines. Likewise how
755:. Therefore, shouldn't we prune it of examples where we don't have reliable secondary sources indicating that the mention of a word as being funny by some random character in a show is actually culturally significant? --
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A Knowledge article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject. Verifiable and sourced statements should be treated with appropriate
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in the names of many other places has helped to make them joke towns also; for example, Kankakee, Kalamazoo, Hoboken, Hohokus, Yonkers, Squeedunk, Stinktown (the original name of
Chicago), and Brooklyn.
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humor) as "a quantifiable function of how far NWs are from being words", so the entire concept of "inherently funny words" seems based on a misinterpretation of
Westbury's conclusions. Even with these
1154:. It is precisely for the purposes of establishing 'accepted knowledge' and 'appropriate weight' that reliable, secondary sources are needed that directly address the topic and provide context. —
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article that mentions that the nonsense words were specifically selected to be pronounceable and to not violate typical
English spelling rules, which would also rule out "qpgzjx" and "wyjkbq". —
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A reference to this essay seems out of place in an article supposedly about the inherent funniness of words, and certainly in the section on "What makes words funny?". Mencken only mentions the
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I'm opposed, for what it's worth. I think that the topic is of interest and would be entirely lost after a merge. We could use more sources but I'm not convinced that there are no others. -
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The other is that the fate or ill fame of Podunk as a nest of the socially starved and intellectually underprivileged was launched early in 1846 by an anonymous contributor to the
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at AfD was not "defeated" – I withdrew it for procedural reasons, such as considering the merger of some of the material into a different article first. Hence this discussion. —
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The whole section seems a little unnecessary given that it only provides a few one-off pop-culture references. But if it's going to exist, 420 and 69 need to be included.
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concept – more a matter of degree than of clear boundaries. However, I don't think the question of singular vs. plural is really very important for this article title. —
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words being funny were a genuine phenomenon, I'd assume that more general-interest sources would have picked up on it. Also, there's no way to verify that the idea of
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2431:– that non-words with unlikely letter combinations, such as Dr. Seuss's creations, have lower entropy. In any event, we must stick to what the sources actually say. —
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Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves
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important by overwhelming them visually, but reducing the clutter would help facilitate the purpose of this page, which is the discussion of sources and policy. —
1224:). I, for one, am not sure that some valuable contributions may have been lost in the process. Consider looking there for additional information and references.
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in that original research is required to analyze and interpret them. On the other hand, simply listing isolated excerpts is not the function of an encyclopedia.
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becoming "an accepted symbol for bucolic coma", with "ill fame" as "a nest of the socially starved and intellectually underprivileged". He appears to be using
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template at the top of this talk page – I don't know whether or not all the message boxes recently added are intended to convince people that the article is
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The reliable sources that describe the science of "funny words" here refer to a single paper by Chris
Westbury et al. which describes "perceived humor" (not
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words are inherently funny. However, I don't think these sources are reliable here, since the authors all have a commercial interest in promoting the idea.
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and continues to try to destroy the article. There's no consensus for this merge proposal or any of his other updates and so I'm reverting them all.
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I support pruning most of random blurbs. I suggest some criteria (I may miss something) for including claims of type '"ZZZZ" is a funny word':
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section in disguise, since it is mostly a list of "this one time on a TV show somebody said a word was funny". It's kind of the definition of
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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stating, 'There`s the "rule of three," the "rule of K" and the rest is management'. Using this source to reach any conclusions regarding
1052:– the source does not name any of these comedians as 'influential', nor does it state that the humor of their routines was 'enhanced'.
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said is being misrepresented in that press article. Properly, there would be an asserted inverse relationship between funniness and
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Masterclass: Writing Comedy: Teach Yourself: How to use funny plots and characters, wordplay and humour in your creative writing
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On the other hand, "oafish risibles of the American plain people" does signify that he's talking about humor – not to say that
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violate expectations, like "qpgzjx" or "wyjkbq", and those are not funny at all. They are strange, but they are not funny. —
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624:"Knowledge turns 15: Site hopes to become the 'sum of all human knowledge' as it celebrates anniversary with huge endowment"
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As for killing off the article, that's fine with me. A lack of information is better than misleading or false information.
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There appears to be an unfortunate error in at least some of the secondary sources that discuss the article by Westbury,
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Do you happen to know why this article has become very popular to read over the last two months? Take a look at the
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The Everything Guide to Comedy Writing: From stand-up to sketch - all you need to succeed in the world of comedy
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by an unnamed Wikipedian becomes accepted 'knowledge' without any substantiation other than simple repetition. —
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There seems to be some confusion over appropriate sourcing for this article. According to Knowledge's policies,
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was that there were no such secondary sources cited to put the information in any context. As mentioned above,
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It may be a mistake with regard to the mathematics of entropy, but it's consistent with what Westbury says in
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How to Be Funny: The One and Only Practical Guide for Every Occasion, Situation, and Disaster (no kidding)
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not in the sense of amusement or mirth, but in the sense of something not worth taking seriously, per
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happens to feel about a particular article doesn't mean anything about the fate of said article. —
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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being 'often cited', let alone 'the mythology of actors and writers' or the 'consonant plosives'
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to remove material based solely on original research and primary sources, as well as material
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ple are hard to cheer up. Thanks, just the facts of lively living. In the word! (cj.com)] y
705:(appears in a Monty Python skit). BTW, is there a category for strange pages in Knowledge? ;)
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note that this article was formerly substantially longer, and was trimmed down repeatedly (
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of information concerning the topic, then by all means add the sources to the article. —
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shows that "vaudeville lore" held certain words to be funny, but it doesn't prove that
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are, will anyone find these words funny? I propose merging the research portion into
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Westbury, Chris; Shaoul, Cyrus; Moroschan, Gail; Ramscar, Michael (1 January 2016).
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there is not an exception to citation requirements specific to article introductions
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Do You Talk Funny?: 7 Comedy Habits to Become a Better (and Funnier) Public Speaker
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1969:"Telling the world's least funny jokes: On the quantification of humor as entropy"
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And exceptions are made for "articles on groups or classes of specific things".
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l part in the plot of a work of art (e.g., the whole comedy stunt is about ZZZZ
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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likewise defeated with no-one supporting the proposal. But Sangedeboef still
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Unfortunately, I don't have access to the full text of that article (and the
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troupe stating that 'Words with a "K" or a hard "C" sound seem to be funny',
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Agreed that the section lacks meaningful, encyclopedic content according to
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material in articles must be attributable to reliable, published sources.
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1042:'a range of influential comedians' enhancing the humor of their routines
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by stating that this 'common trope' is used in 'many fictional works'.
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stating, 'The "rule of three" and "the rule of K"—those are true', and
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inherently funny word. The few reliable sources on the topic refer to
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to justify an encyclopedia article about the concept, in my opinion.
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1910:"Finally There's a Scientific Theory for Why Some Words are Funny"
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are also essentially all primary sources for the statements made.
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funny, it would be so whether one's risibles were oafish or not. —
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It seems to me that the "Words described as funny" section just a
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is also paywalled for me at the moment). I do see the article in
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This is a recurring theme mentioned in by many sources, although
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is inherently funny, just that it appeals to the sense of humor (
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unsound at first, but then they get you later or never. Some peo
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words are inherently funny might simply be lifted directly from
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cited this page as "One of my favourite strange entries" in an
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Oh, I see that this last aspect has been considered – per the
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1,488 after that until two days ago (2017-05-26 – 2017-06-18)
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means wet flatulence. So how are they "harmless nonsense"? --
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secondary sources should form the basis of Knowledge articles
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the claim was stated within the general reasonably scholarly
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As for his own example of an inherently funny word? "Badger."
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There is nothing wrong with sexuality existing in Knowledge
1102:'we need examples to show that this concept is widely held'
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Otherwise I agree the section must be treated according to
637:"Where Did 'Dumpster Fire' Come From? Where Is It Rolling?"
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significant coverage in enough reliable, secondary sources
1071:. None of this is directly mentioned in the source used.
650:"This is the Knowledge founder's favourite Knowledge page"
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exist. In a hundred years, when no one knows who or what
597:"The 49 Most Entertaining Knowledge Entries Ever Created"
1574:. Marshall Cavendish International Asia Pte Ltd. p. 80.
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that 'the concept is widely held' is the definition of
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Seinfeldia: How a Show About Nothing Changed Everything
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Kleinman, Alexis; Strachan, Maxwell (14 January 2015).
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probable, its entropy (more precisely, the amount of "
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Sources must support the material clearly and directly
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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improbable (like "qpgzjx" or "wyjkbq", presumably). —
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There's also a bit of confusion evident here between
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
1281:"Grammar Girl: Words that Sound Funny: Episode #112"
666:"Knowledge at 20: The encyclopedia in five articles"
571:"Knowledge 'not perfect but improving' says founder"
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1929:"From whong to quingel: the science of funny words"
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significant coverage in reliable, secondary sources
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1746:analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis
1145:Relying on such primary sources can be problematic
530:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1949:"How funny is this word? The 'snunkoople' effect"
1279:Cummings, Kevin; Fogarty, Mignon (20 June 2008).
1126:; once again, the issue is finding a source that
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1022:recently added to the second sentence in the lead
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1216:sometimes with disagreement from other editors (
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2001:The Routledge Companion to Commedia Dell'Arte
1998:Chaffee, Judith; Crick, Oliver, eds. (2015).
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2030:The following is a closed discussion of a
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857:How is "Funny Numbers" missing 420 and 69?
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1927:Shariatmadari, David (26 November 2015).
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2049:The result of the move request was:
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1594:Armstrong, Jennifer Keishin (2016).
1324:The author of a book about the show
648:Cornish, David (29 September 2016).
490:This article is within the scope of
388:This article is within the scope of
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2317:Higher entropy or lower entropy?
1908:Lewis, Danny (7 December 2015).
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2004:. New York: Routledge. p. 181.
1310:Knowledge is not a how-to guide
1262:"The 10 Commandments Of Comedy"
635:Fallon, Claire (24 June 2016).
582:Li, Shirley (October 9, 2014).
428:This article has been rated as
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1973:Journal of Memory and Language
1522:. BenBella Books, Inc. p. 53.
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1:
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1470:. Simon and Schuster. p. 17.
1260:Kart, Larry (20 April 1986).
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1074:It should also be noted that
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896:23:34, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
504:and see a list of open tasks.
402:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
2633:00:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
1444:06:14, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
1424:20:36, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
1386:17:34, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
1357:12:17, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
1193:11:23, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
947:Merriam-Webster's definition
909:Buffalo Daily National Pilot
871:20:14, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
408:Knowledge:WikiProject Comedy
2658:WikiProject Comedy articles
2648:Start-Class Comedy articles
2231:Press coverage on talk page
2023:Requested move 18 June 2017
1855:requires more than trivial
698:interview with BBC Newsbeat
411:Template:WikiProject Comedy
253:Older deletion discussions:
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
2694:
2429:the original press release
1759:22:02, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
1735:09:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
1568:Fitzherbert, Nick (2011).
1548:. Hodder & Stoughton.
1130:supports the material per
971:) of a particular group (
715:06:25, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
584:"Roger Ebert's Knowledge "
532:project's importance scale
434:project's importance scale
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1112:. In a similar vein, the
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973:the American plain people
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273:, February 19, 2006, see
238:, December 22, 2016, see
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2282:This continues to grow:
2217:Please do not modify it.
2037:Please do not modify it.
1819:07:59, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
1801:07:29, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
1702:about this discussion. —
1341:'Words that sound funny'
1173:trimmed the article down
1100:Regarding the statement
849:10:09, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
2538:which means penis (see
1807:nomination of this page
1781:16:33, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
1690:I've posted notices at
1177:tagged in December 2016
493:WikiProject Linguistics
263:, January 8, 2009, see
2387:for a particular word
2158:Inherently funny words
2084:Inherently funny words
2078:Inherently funny words
1769:hasn't got the message
1699:WikiProject Philosophy
1647:inherently funny words
1639:The part quoting from
1600:. Simon and Schuster.
1516:Nihill, David (2016).
1496:. Adams Media. p. 30.
1181:user-generated sources
929:
560:This article has been
321:This article is rated
283:, April 29, 2004, see
75:avoid personal attacks
2607:. Student editor(s):
2108:Inherently funny word
2088:Inherently funny word
2073:Inherently funny word
1542:Bown, Lesley (2015).
100:Neutral point of view
25:Inherently funny word
2481:improbable, but not
2266:page view statistics
2142:for other examples.
1285:Quick and Dirty Tips
1024:– the source quotes
919:"The Podunk Mystery"
707:SteveChervitzTrutane
516:Linguistics articles
293:, May 18, 2003, see
105:No original research
2532:is a diminutive of
2235:I'm collapsing the
2186:information entropy
1805:For the record, my
1490:Bent, Mike (2009).
1464:Macks, Jon (2005).
1198:For future editors,
1110:editorial synthesis
1046:editorial synthesis
817:. - üser:Altenmann
802:The claim plays a
641:The Huffington Post
601:The Huffington Post
2611:. Peer reviewers:
2605:on the course page
1916:. Washington, D.C.
1693:WikiProject Comedy
1571:Presentation Magic
1396:on the part about
1371:WP:I don't like it
1030:Friends of the Zoo
749:In Popular Culture
485:Linguistics portal
391:WikiProject Comedy
327:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
47:
2010:978-0-415-74506-2
1733:
1642:The Sunshine Boys
1528:978-1-9429-5227-5
1476:978-0-7432-0472-9
1403:The Sunshine Boys
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2346:information
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