1440:"An insurgency is an armed rebellion against a constituted authority." I don't think so. Isn't it possible for an insurgent to seek to subvert a constituted authority without using armed rebellion. I am thinking of PDK in Iraq, Syria, and maybe Iran (but not Turkey). They seek to undermine the governments of those countries--through propaganda and ethno-separatism, but rarely through armed rebellion. I would call them a peaceful insurgency. Am I wrong in my model? Or my characterization of PDK's objectives and methods? --
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bias associated with the term (particularly for NATO members,) as with the term 'terrorist' seeks to implant a firm image and appropriate response amongst nebulous (and thus controversial) labels. This article does not convey the different facets of such conflict and fails to illustrate the ambiguity and lack of consensus that abounds a subject regarding the forceful expression of ideological, nationalist or religious movements.
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1374:- while counter-insurgency is, Q.E.D., fighting against an insurgency, as BMK notes above the two types of warfare are wildly different in approach and tactics. They'll necessarily overlap, but in order to have the two schools of warfare properly covered in a single article, the article would be so long that it would be best split...leaving us back at square one. -
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I have added this template due to the article's dominant concern being the United States of
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between the two sides, such as is not the case in much classic warfare. This disparity means that the theories and empirical knowledge of one side are not exactly mirrored on the other side, so while there obviously is a lot of overlap between the two articles, there is also a lot of stuff which is
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That's very impressive! But having taken the trouble to dig up all those sources, would it not have been better to work it into the article, instead of just reverting to the version that caused the confusion in the first place? As I said, I am not interested in edit-warring, only in clarity. The
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says "In supporting
Lincoln on this issue, the Supreme Court upheld his theory of the Civil War as an insurrection against the United States government that could be suppressed according to the rules of war. In this way the United States was able to fight the war as if it were an international war,
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Knowledge is not a dictionary, but the OED is apparently the only source you have that insurgency and insurrection are not the same thing! Can you not cite a book on military strategy or military history or international law that clearly makes that distinction? I will not edit-war, and I will try
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is an armed rebellion against a constituted authority (for example an authority recognised as such by the United
Nations) when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognised as belligerents." because that is wrong as an insurrection can also be an armed conflict when those taking part in the
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Dictionary dot com Not a mention of violence noun, plural insurgencies for 4. 1. the state or condition of being insurgent. 2. insurrection against an existing government, usually one's own, by a group not recognized as having the status of a belligerent. 3. rebellion within a group, as by members
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Wipedia is not a dictionary, it does not have to have articles on words and until this is sorted out I would appreciate it if you would not alter the wording of the article to imply that insurrection and insurgency are the same thing unless you have a reliable source that makes that association.
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of behaviors from civil disobedience...to...organized attempts to destroy an established authority" (my italics). Your recent edit, though very welcome, does not do enough to make the article suitable for linking armed rebellion, whether it is called insurrection, rising or uprising. Having a
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for this section is highly US centric and only mentions two examples of insurgency
Indonesia and India. While a section on why states, other than those on who's territories an insurgency is taking place, get involved in either supporting or suppressing an insergency is a valid topic for this
1328:. I think that the content in the Counter-insurgency article can easily be explained in the context of Insurgency, and the Insurgency article is of a reasonable size in which the merging of Counter-insurgency will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned.
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I can see which way this is headed. From "Oppose" to "Strong oppose" to "Very strong oppose". Perhaps the next one will be "Most strong oppose" or "Passionately oppose". No skin off of my teeth. If I don't see some support in the next few days I will be happy to withdrawal the proposal.
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links to here, and there is a hatnote at the top of this article stating those facts. The synonym will have to go back in until all of that is sorted out. On a side note, why remove the word "armed"? If a rebellion need not always be armed, surely an insurgency always is?
995:"to rise up", means "a rebel, one who revolts against an established government." The insurgent in a rebellion does not have the status ofa belligerent, routed in the Latin for "waging war," and thus does not have the protections in law of a member of a state at war.'"
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I think that you are being too harsh on yourself, redirecting it here was not so bad because an insurgency is an insurrection, it is just that an insurrection also covers rebellions that are not insurgencies, which is where you and I initially disagreed.
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I disagree and so do 2 dictionaries : in·sur·gen·cy noun \-jən(t)-sē\ merriam-webster 1) a usually violent attempt to take control of a government 2) a rebellion or uprising.... Usually is the key word that says most times but not always.
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policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or
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893:. So I am reverting the change. BTW I put in the hatnote until we can agree what to do with the word insurrection. In my opinion it should redirect to a section in rebellion called insurrection which defines it as an armed rebellion.
732:-- "Articles should only contain pertinent examples" that help to illuminate the subject of insurgencies, usually these should be used as examples about a facet of insurgency where an example helps clarify a point in a readers mind.
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So there above are a couple of definitions which give insurgent as a non-belligerent, and a
Supreme court ruling that says a full blown civil war can be an insurrection (in which soldiers on both sides are seen as belligerents).
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redirects to this article. On the assumption that "insurrection" is a synonym of insurgency, I am stating that fact at the beginning of the article. This is the only article that deals satisfactorily with armed rebellion -
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Thank you. Time, it took me some time to find the information above, and I have other pages I have an interest in, for example I spent several hours tracking down the spelling used in the original quote in the article of
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I think like many articles on
Knowledge that touch on similar subjects this one suffers from bloat. Much of it is not directly relevant to the meaning of insurgency and could just as easily be put into articles such as
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Insurrection "The action of rising in arms or open resistance against established authority or governmental restraint; with pl., an instance of this, an armed rising, a revolt; an incipient or limited rebellion."
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about insurrection, it is wrong for the "Insurrection" article to redirect to it. I am going to redirect it to "Rebellion" for the moment, and remove the hatnote to this article.
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and add the section on the
Ballroom. I hope that the above will help someone else improve this article and I am going to use the last source to improve the rebellion article. --
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I am prepared to accept what you say, but although I personally feel that the distinction is much finer than you make out, that is not the problem. The problem is that
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In some insurrections the members of the rebellion may be recognised as belligerents in which case they are not insurgents. You would do better linking to
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template since August 2008. It seems to consist of a list of so called insurgencies with few citations to support them. Such lists fall under
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I have removed a number of sections because IMHO they do not add much to the understanding of insurgencies and much of it is OR.
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to collaborate to "sort this out", but in the meantime I would appreciate it if you would not take that snotty tone with me.
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the best option of all, but first an article has to be written, and that is not my area of expertise. In the meantime,
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insurgent "One who rises in revolt against constituted authority; a rebel who is not recognized as a belligerent."(OED)
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gives the CIA definition, but that does not mention if the insurgents are or are not recognized as
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As to armed rebellion leave the word in if you like, but the OED does not make that distinction.
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Insurgency "The quality or state of being insurgent; the tendency to rise in revolt; = prec."
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is a dab page that points to "Rebellion" - so I am adding that as a synonym as well.
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Countering terrorism and insurgency in the 21st century: international perspectives
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suggests several definitions that go back to a 1905 British Army definition.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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I disagree. Without armed rebellion, it's simply a political movement.
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The problem is an
Insurrection is not the same thing as an insurgency.
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article as it stands, relying on a dictionary definition, is unclear.
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By James J. F. Forest
Published by Greenwood Publishing Group, 2007
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Insurrection does not seem to be the same thing here is one
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Of course there are many other more detailed definitions eg
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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1036:. This book
1025:
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977:
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886:insurrection
885:
855:Insurrection
850:
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820:Insurrection
767:Insurrection
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81:WikiProjects
64:
33:
22:
1442:72.47.85.22
740:main source
727:examplefarm
328:Structure:
2039:Categories
2026:Report bug
1901:Insurgency
1882:Report bug
1791:Insurgency
1772:Report bug
1649:Insurgency
1511:Insurgency
1395:Buckshot06
1326:Insurgency
985:0275990354
889:rebellion
712:carried a
696:has had a
561:discussion
220:Technology
21:While the
2009:this tool
2002:this tool
1939:dead link
1865:this tool
1858:this tool
1755:this tool
1748:this tool
1615:this tool
1608:this tool
993:insurgere
842:Rebellion
812:Rebellion
772:Rebellion
668:terrorism
634:Archive 1
566:Terrorism
557:terrorism
529:Terrorism
69:is rated
2015:Cheers.—
1871:Cheers.—
1761:Cheers.—
1621:Cheers.—
1521:cbignore
1229:Scolaire
949:Scolaire
864:Scolaire
818:back to
780:Scolaire
776:Uprising
762:Synonyms
676:invasion
622:Archives
477:Politics
468:politics
424:Politics
289:criteria
1943:tag to
1905:my edit
1795:my edit
1653:my edit
1631::Online
1560:checked
1515:my edit
1423:S. Rich
1409:S. Rich
1334:S. Rich
1093:de jure
661:Pruning
593:on the
504:on the
166:on the
71:B-class
1935:Added
1529:nobots
1398:(talk)
1303:Sherzo
1088:p. 246
1072:p. 365
1042:p. 162
1022:pp.13-
989:p. 365
77:scale.
1030:p. 24
846:range
797:(OED)
58:This
1564:true
1493:talk
1461:talk
1446:talk
1427:talk
1413:talk
1363:talk
1338:talk
1307:talk
1272:talk
1233:talk
1191:talk
1124:talk
982:ISBN
953:talk
926:talk
868:talk
828:talk
822:. --
784:talk
753:talk
738:The
1983:RfC
1953:to
1929:to
1919:to
1839:RfC
1809:to
1729:RfC
1687:to
1677:to
1667:to
1589:RfC
1551:to
1541:to
1268:PBS
1225:not
1187:PBS
1120:PBS
922:PBS
824:PBS
749:PBS
585:Mid
496:Mid
158:Mid
2041::
1996:.
1991:}}
1987:{{
1941:}}
1937:{{
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
