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unsuitable in an encyclopedia, where the writer should be invisible to the reader. Moreover, pertaining specifically to
Knowledge (XXG)'s policies, the first person often inappropriately implies a point of view inconsistent with WP:NPOV, and second person is inappropriately associated with step-by-step instructions of a how-to guide (see WP:NOTHOWTO). First and second person pronouns should ordinarily be used only in attributed direct quotations relevant to the subject of the article. As with many such guidelines, however, there are exceptions: for instance, in professional mathematics writing, use of the first person plural ("we") as "inclusive we" is widespread. Use common sense to determine if the chosen perspective is in the spirit of this guideline. Gender-neutral pronouns should be used where the gender is not specific; see Gender-neutral language for further information. Punctuation marks that appear in the article should be used only per generally accepted practice. Exclamation marks (!) should be used only if they occur in direct quotations.
1909:, because you've misunderstood the policy. Also, the author's page on her books is the citation for the type and number of her books, not for the rest of the information in the lede (which requires no citation as it's sourced in the body text). If you'd like to create a complete Bibliography section listing all of her books and their translations instead, please feel free; otherwise, that page is the only complete and accurate compilation of her books on the web, so it's the best and most reliable source (see
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1106:. The proper source of record to cite awards is the official record of the awards; there is no need to find independent sources for awards. Also, please remember not to remove cited material without discussion and consensus. If you personally believe mention of any of the awards is in violation of a Knowledge (XXG) policy, then please provide clear policy-based reasoning and establish a consensus before deciding to remove any of them. Thanks very much!
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yet again the material and there is not one instance of infraction nor is any part libellous in nature as is stated in
Knowledge (XXG) statement below. Please advise on how i may appeal this to another editor not DougWeller? I would also like someone to reply and give me specific instance where i am breaking policy guidelines in my entry according to statement below? ]
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1533:, because you've misunderstood or misread the policies. If you'd like to add additional citations to the article, feel free; if your research determines that something in the article is in error, please fix and cite it. Thanks very much. Meanwhile, neither the article nor the citations currently used need any tags at all. Thanks.
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Knowledge (XXG) articles, and other encyclopedic content, should be written in a formal tone. Standards for formal tone vary depending upon the subject matter, but should follow the style used by reliable sources, while remaining clear and understandable. Formal tone means that the article should not
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Note that I've been discussing how noteworthy something is, referring to NPOV, a content policy. This is not about our policies and guidelines related to the notability of a article topic (WP:N, and WP:BIO for a BLP), which are not relevant to content directly beyond the need to clearly identify the
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In this particular instance I think you are misunderstanding the notion of "primary source" and also the place of primary sources in the encyclopedia. Unless you can provide a
Knowledge (XXG) policy wherein the official awards site is not a reliable source for the awards they actually present, they
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the enforcement of this and other pages i have edited is proving to be a possible personal vendetta of sorts. Sorry to be non-neutral but the reactions to each and every one of my efforts to correct the issue has been heavy handed- now i have received a "clean up" mark on this page. I have reviewed
2131:
Remove immediately any contentious material about a living person that is unsourced or poorly sourced; that is a conjectural interpretation of a source (see No original research); that relies on self-published sources, unless written by the subject of the BLP (see below); or that relies on sources
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I've gone ahead and removed the material as undue and promotional, a BLP violation sourced only with self-published, primary sources. Take it to BLPN if you believe awards or factual statements in general are appropriate when so sourced. This is an encyclopedia article, not her resume, nor a venue
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If someone is noteworthy enough of having a
Knowledge (XXG) article, there is no threshold of notability that verifiable and cited awards need to have in order to be mentioned. The awards are not mentioned promotionally; they are not emphasized with bullet points or called out or separated with a
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i added a univision link to bottom section (External links) to help corroborate her personal and career information. I have not been asked nor paid to do this, just thought it would be nice for her to be up here since she is a national radio personality that has helped many people. how else can i
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tag because nothing was either contentious or uncited. Could we please keep the tag off the article, since we've established that there is nothing either contentious or uncited in the article as it currently stands. If something needs citation or additional citation, could editors please use the
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Awards are not somehow immune to our policies: "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for
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Articles should generally not be written from a first or second person perspective. In prose writing, the first person ("I" and "we") point of view and second person ("you" and "your") point of view typically evoke a strong narrator. While this is acceptable in works of fiction, it is generally
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Probably a reliable source for what little it says about her. Besides the quote above, it has a brief introduction, "Dr. Isabel’s program is part of
Univision’s national education campaign, entitled Es el Momento and funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Univisión is committed to
1475:, the blog of Miami Science Museum, the Patricia and Phillip Frost Museum of Science, on February 21, 2012. "Cheryl Lani Juárez, the Museum’s Sr. Director of Professional Development, was invited to speak with Univision’s highly popular national radio host Dr. Isabel Gómez-Bassols."
1270:
Hi Ronz. Both
Binksternet and I have mentioned several times that there is no policy violation here. Before removing cited material that does not violate any WP policy, you need to accurately make a case and establish consensus for your case before removing the material. Thanks.
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Are these awards legitimate? Seems so. They don't look like scams where the awardee pays for the award directly or indirectly. Are they worth noting anywhere other than on her resume? Not according to anyone other than those offering the award that has been identified so far...
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how can i post information on this person then? Only factual, documented information was placed for her bio. Please help. I read the rights section and it said simply state your interest and that should be enough and now it was removed? a bit severe dont you think?
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violation here. If you'd like to add additional citations to the article, fine; if your research determines that something in the article is in error, please fix and cite it. Thanks very much. Meanwhile, neither the article nor the citations need any tags at all.
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Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for
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I've very quickly skimmed the potential sources below, but don't see any that are helpful on this issue. I'll look more closely when I have more time. Maybe someone can look at the awarders too, beyond what little there is in the three articles?
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Primary sources by themselves do not establish that information is worth noting. We've no sources that demonstrate that any of these awards are worth noting, so they should be left out per NPOV (especially WP:UNDUE) and NOT (especially
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disseminating educational information through all their media platforms including television, radio and web, to raise general awareness of resources available to address the Latino education crisis in STEM fields." --
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I've removed the listings of awards again, because all the sources are from the awards organizations themselves. Even if this wasn't a BLP, we need to take care how we use primary sources so as not to violate
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Supports her notability. The full quote is "Doctora Isabel, a well-respected radio psychologist with a large
Hispanic following, also joined the campaign by discussing family violence issues on her show."
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1913:). By the way, if you feel the material in this Knowledge (XXG) article is not notable or accurate (and by extension the subject is not notable), that's an issue for the AfD discussion, as there is no
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Diaz, Johnny (June 17, 2003). "The good doctora: Millions nationwide are tuning in to the friendly, firm advice of
Spanish-language radio host Isabel Gomez-Bassols". Boston Globe. Accessed March 2014.
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of South
Florida. March 25, 2012, by Johnny Diaz, staff writer. The story discusses how President Obama called in to the show to talk to Gómez-Bassols about education, immigration and health care.
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Articles should document in a non-partisan manner what reliable secondary sources have published about the subjects, and in some circumstances what the subjects have published about themselves.
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Hi Ronz. Your question has been asked and answered several times. You need to establish consensus before removing cited factual material. Therefore, I'm going to replace the material.
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Ask yourself whether the source is reliable; whether the material is being presented as true; and whether, even if true, it is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject.
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Since we only have her website verifying the information, it's undue in the lede. Any preference on where it should go? How about at the end of the last paragraph in "Career"? --
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This is ref#1, by the same author as ref#2. It is a public interest story focusing on her radio show. It doesn't contain much biographical information at any depth. It meets
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are the source of record, and the most reliable and citable source, for any award. If you care to reconfirm mention or coverage of the awards with less-reliable sources and
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be written using unintelligible argot, slang, colloquialisms, doublespeak, legalese, or jargon; it means that the
English language should be used in a businesslike manner.
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This is our best source by far, though it is a public interest story focusing on her radio show. It doesn't contain much biographical information at any depth. Meets
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I removed your BLP template because there are no issues left to fix. Whatever BLP issues that had been present are taken care of primarily by Softlavender's cleanup.
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Hi Ronz, thanks for discussing. The awards are facts and accurately sourced, not unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material; therefore no violation of
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59:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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2031:. Please use this time to get consensus on whether the subject's awards are properly sourced. I removed that paragraph because it was challenged under
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but I doubt anyone would agree it should be removed. I DID NOT add the cleanup tag or any other tags, please stop accusing me of edits I haven't made.
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Diaz, Johnny (March 25, 2012). "La doctora is in: Grandmother of 8 dispenses advice on the radio". South Florida Sun-Sentinel. Accessed March 2014.
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So consensus is a vote, and policies can be ignored by vote? Sorry, but your personal opinions don't outweigh general consensus. Do take a look at
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This is ref#2. It is a public interest story focusing on her radio show. It doesn't contain much biographical information at any depth. It meets
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Sorry, you'll have to explain your interpretation better, rather than accuse other editors that don't agree with you of misunderstanding. --
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Seems like editors here simply aren't interested in following our policies and guidelines, so we'll have to get others involved that do. --
2066:, they are the official websites of the national organizations that present the awards, which per Knowledge (XXG) policy are the official
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174:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge (XXG)'s articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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1417:"The good doctora – Millions nationwide are tuning in to the friendly, firm advice of Spanish-language radio host Isabel Gomez-Bassols"
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1827:"Univision Radio Launches National Self-Help Radio Program with the Popular Dra. Isabel Gomez-Bassols". Business Wire. March 8, 2004.
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It should be used to verify her education and work as a psychologist, which is currently only verified by a self-published source. --
971:. Generally, primary sources should only be used for additional details on a topic already verified with secondary/tertiary sources.
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This is an interview with a very short profile. We'll need to be cautious on how to use it. Best to treat it as a primary source. --
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Primary sources are perfectly good for straightforward statements of fact that require no interpretation. There is no BLP problem.
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stop this from being deleted. SHould i ask her or someone else that knows her to edit the page and substantiate the info? {help}
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Mujer Awards: 20th Anniversary; November 14, 2013; Washington D.C.. National Hispana Leadership Institute. Accessed March 2014.
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Self-published. While it's being used with ref#2, I don't see what additional information it provides. It should be deleted. --
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A short summary of the previous comments would be helpful for BLPN. It might be helpful to remember what BLP actually says:
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calls her "a well-respected radio psychologist with a large Hispanic following". (The chapter is on domestic violence.)
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to get feedback on whether the sources are adequate. If consensus is reached, the protection can be lifted. Thank you,
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593:) / Isabel Gomez-Bassols This user has contributed to the article. This user has declared a connection. (COI declared
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footnotes, feel free, but there is no need for any further citation. Citing awards from the source of record is not
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section/header of their own. Three awards are mentioned in two succinct sentences without any further commentary.
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It doesn't matter that you aren't paid, the fact that she is a relative gives you a clear conflict of interest.
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Same author as the previous source, and a very similar article in focus and scope, just more recent. Meets
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I see we are using the Mujera award profile in two other places. These should be removed/replaced as well.
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1453:, March 8, 2013, by Minerva Pedraza. Dedicated coverage of the radio career of Gómez-Bassols. In Spanish.
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Note: We've had consensus here since April 1 that the sources are fine and accurate and that there is no
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I cleaned up the headings and what not, but it looks like some content cleanup would be worth while. --
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1423:, June 17, 2003. By Johnny Diaz, Globe Staff. Dedicated coverage of Gómez-Bassols on her radio show.
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70:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
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No consensus. Consensus does not mean we ignore policies and any editors that disagree with us. --
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74:.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see
752:- why I'm accused of removing information is a bit puzzling since all I did is add the COI tag.
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14th Annual Impact Awards Gala. National Hispanic Media Coalition. 2011. Accessed March 2014.
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How about explaining your position rather than focusing on editors that disagree with you? --
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2011 LA Pride Honorees: presented by Christopher Street West. Archived October 23, 2013.
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The burden of evidence for any edit rests with the person who adds or restores material.
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tag rather than an unnecessary template at the top of the article. Thank you very much.
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This is ref#4. It is self-published and fails BLP. It contains a detailed biography. --
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WP:COIN#Isabel Gomez-Bassols article created and currently edited by her talent manager
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Self-published. Fails BLP. It should be removed. It contains a detailed biography. --
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Seems to me that these awards simply aren't worthy of note, so they don't belong. --
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It noted that there are problems with some BLPs being overly promotional in tone...
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Very brief, warmed-over press release. It should be treated as a primary source. --
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to me, though not for the purposes of disruption, more just a way to ignore proper
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Primary sources should rarely if ever be used by themselves per WP:OR, especially
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magazine, Spring 2014. By Michelle Markelz. Dedicated coverage and interview.
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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Judging by the quality of the articles on the three awarding organizations (
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This is a BLP. Leave the information out until this is resolved please.
1447:"'La Doctora Isabel, el Ángel de la Radio,' Dra. Isabel Gómez-Bassols"
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The solution is to find independent sources, or keep the material out.
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Also, I don't believe Internet Movie Database is a reliable source. --
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of Gomez-Bassols, with at least one source that meets WP:BIO criteria.
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Press release. Because it's being used with ref#2, it seems fine. --
1365:"'La doctora' is in: Grandmother of 8 dispenses advice on the radio"
1064:), it doesn't appear that the awards are worth mention in a BLP. --
182:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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mentioned above) and citing everything on March 31, I removed the
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I've fully protected the article until 10 April, 2014, per the
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wrote in an edit summary *I am Doctor Isabel's talent manager*
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Unknown-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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http://articles.latimes.com/1998/dec/03/entertainment/ca-49997
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contributor has declared a personal or professional connection
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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that fail in some other way to meet Verifiability standards.
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Sorry, but ignoring our policies does not make consensus. --
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here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or
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Low-importance children and young adult literature articles
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Here's a list of the current sources for easy reference: --
370:, an attempt to create and standardize articles related to
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Could someone please address my concerns and the policies?
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Looks like Softlavender performed a good deal of cleanup.
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The webpage is empty when I look at it. What is there? --
701:, and try to learn Knowledge (XXG) as quickly as you can.
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Start-Class children and young adult literature articles
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for being self-published. It would be reasonable to use
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Start-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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1473:"MiaSci on the Radio: More Science for a Better Nation"
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Deletion sorting/Literature
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reasons for notability and give them proper weight. --
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Dra. Isabel Books and Audiobooks. DoctoraIsabel.net.
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Here are the potential sources offered in the AfD: --
374:. Feel free to help with any of the following tasks.
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Why doesn't BLP apply to the self-published sources?
285:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources.
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Self-published. Fails BLP. It should be removed. --
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Self-published. Fails BLP. It should be removed. --
1678:If you have actionable complaints then voice them.
730:Otherwise, the article is at risk for deletion or
1397:Gómez-Bassols was made Regional Awardee in 2013.
299:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Children's literature
2188:Moved to and for first paragraph in "Career". --
725:sources to verify most of the remaining content.
1620:We've established no such thing. Please follow
2070:sources of choice to verify and cite awards.
1395:National Hispana Leadership Institute honored
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396:Tag the talk pages of related articles with
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302:Template:WikiProject Children's literature
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704:Minimally, the article needs two things:
1975:Similar to the two by Diaz but older. --
508:Create a requested article on literature
618:Individuals with a conflict of interest
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1137:The IMDB ref was replaced. Good job! -
634:request corrections or suggest content
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30:on 28 March 2014 (UTC). The result of
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192:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Biography
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1784:Her official website. Seems to meet
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1062:National Hispanic Leadership Agenda
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1846:PROGRAMACIÓN. Univision America.
1054:National_Hispanic_Media_Coalition
483:Children's literature WikiProject
464:Articles with notability concerns
410:WikiProject Children's literature
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1339:"Tuning Into the Good Doctora"
893:You can appeal the COI tag at
561:The following Knowledge (XXG)
195:Template:WikiProject Biography
1:
366:Here are some open tasks for
293:and see a list of open tasks.
216:This article is supported by
52:biographies of living persons
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274:Children's literature portal
180:contribute to the discussion
64:must be removed immediately
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1440:18:15, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
1410:18:12, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
1388:18:07, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
1358:18:05, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
1333:04:49, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
1307:05:17, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
1281:05:09, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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1199:22:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
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1147:17:51, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
1133:17:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
1116:17:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
1088:17:01, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
1074:16:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
1023:15:58, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
987:15:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
948:23:12, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
441:the index of WikiProjects
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2062:violation. They are not
792:) 21:08, 21 March 2014
2146:And, of course, all of
640:if the issue is urgent.
431:is available. See also
412:and list yourself as a
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2029:edit warring complaint
1905:Please carefully read
1525:Please carefully read
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468:WikiProject Notability
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134:Arts and Entertainment
98:This article is rated
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575:neutral point of view
372:children's literature
296:Children's literature
287:Children's literature
243:Children's literature
211:
171:WikiProject Biography
102:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
707:Clear indication of
647:Conflict of interest
567:conflict of interest
448:Deletion discussions
437:the tool's wiki page
433:the list by category
393:of related articles.
479:Unassessed articles
1343:Hispanic Executive
719:secondary/tertiary
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494:Add references to
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198:biography articles
104:content assessment
1965:Potential sources
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1369:Sun-Sentinel
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1236:Softlavender
1170:Softlavender
1108:Softlavender
1046:discussion."
1015:Softlavender
998:
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861:— Preceding
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673:— Preceding
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622:representing
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2116:discussion.
1680:Binksternet
1644:Binksternet
1589:BLP sources
1582:Binksternet
1571:BLP sources
1451:Radio Notas
1285:Looks like
1080:Binksternet
940:Binksternet
715:Independent
415:Participant
100:Start-class
2207:Categories
2068:WP:PRIMARY
2064:WP:SELFPUB
2045:EdJohnston
1911:WP:PRIMARY
1907:WP:SELFPUB
1786:WP:SELFPUB
1527:WP:SELFPUB
1031:WP:PROMO).
999:additional
899:Dougweller
821:Dougweller
782:Vasalloe1
754:Dougweller
748:Raised at
709:notability
656:Dougweller
638:contact us
632:. You may
490:References
459:Notability
2152:WP:BLPSPS
2023:Protected
867:Vasalloe1
679:Vasalloe1
581:Vasalloe1
189:Biography
129:Biography
68:libellous
2003:Done. --
1576:template
997:them as
875:contribs
863:unsigned
790:contribs
778:unsigned
732:stubbing
723:reliable
687:contribs
675:unsigned
591:contribs
28:deletion
2041:WP:BLPN
1287:WP:IDHT
1183:WP:NPOV
1036:WP:PSTS
1007:WP:NPOV
965:WP:NPOV
750:WP:COIN
697:Follow
481:in the
423:Cleanup
350:history
323:on the
2060:WP:BLP
2037:WP:RSN
2033:WP:BLP
1915:WP:BLP
1763:WP:BIO
1740:WP:BIO
1662:WP:CON
1626:WP:CON
1531:WP:BIO
1529:, and
1428:WP:BIO
1376:WP:BIO
1295:WP:CON
1104:WP:BLP
1060:, and
1011:WP:NOT
969:WP:NOT
967:, and
699:WP:COI
573:, and
106:scale.
2169:Books
1658:WP:DR
1622:WP:DR
1291:WP:DR
1009:, or
1003:WP:OR
961:WP:OR
514:Stubs
408:Join
360:purge
355:watch
2194:talk
2190:Ronz
2179:talk
2175:Ronz
2160:talk
2156:Ronz
2154:. --
2150:and
2090:talk
2086:Ronz
2076:talk
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2009:talk
2005:Ronz
1995:talk
1991:Ronz
1981:talk
1977:Ronz
1953:talk
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1794:Ronz
1788:and
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1767:Ronz
1765:. --
1748:talk
1744:Ronz
1742:. --
1726:talk
1722:Ronz
1698:talk
1694:Ronz
1684:talk
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1666:Ronz
1664:. --
1660:and
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1634:talk
1630:Ronz
1624:and
1611:talk
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1539:talk
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1462:talk
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1430:. --
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1384:talk
1380:Ronz
1378:. --
1354:talk
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1329:talk
1325:Ronz
1303:talk
1299:Ronz
1297:. --
1293:and
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1250:Ronz
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799:Ronz
786:talk
758:talk
740:talk
736:Ronz
734:. --
683:talk
660:talk
585:talk
526:edit
477:the
474:Rate
439:and
345:edit
178:and
36:keep
34:was
2039:or
995:add
577:.
315:Low
57:BLP
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1603:}}
1600:cn
1597:{{
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398:{{
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