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end to their financial problem, from where the money was coming. A 19yr old girl, going to pune to work with, where office were not yet setup. Before she was assassinated she was in Nasik, and a new person came to pick her up. Some stories says, gujrat police picked them from mumbai, why a team of police came to mumbai to pick some one specific. After reading the whole theory in wikipedia and other articles, I found something fishy. If all these theories are correct, I will give benefit of doubt to the police who killed. If these are wrong, then there are lot many truths are yet to come.
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983:: These titles are all confusing. Please find a title that does not refer to a killing as an "encounter", and especially please find a title that does not refer to a real killing as a "fake encounter". The readership of Knowledge is world-wide. Surely, people outside of India have no idea what these terms mean. (This whole article is very confusing for someone outside of India to try to read.) The title should use the ordinary definition of words as found in a general-use dictionary. —
791:. The circumstances of her death are still being debated in the legal system, so the title of our article should not prejudge who is right. In any case 'fake encounter' is a tautology because 'encounter' already has the meaning of a killing staged by police. It is possible that discussion about the title may continue, but at least this puts the article at a neutral title in the mean time. Two people objected to the regional word 'encounter' since Knowledge has a world-wide audience.
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1259:, but also because of the fact that the incident involved the death of four people, not just Ishrat Jahan. The current title is what the incident has come to be known by and I can't see any good reason why, if almost every reliable source uses this title, we should be trying to make up something new. We judge neutrality through reliable sources and when all the sources are in agreement, that's what becomes our neutral title. --
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1172:. Not clear what "fake" means in this context. An "encounter" is an extra-judicial killing by the police. But what is a "fake encounter"? One where the victims weren't really killed? Or where the killers wen't really police? or which wasn't really extra-judicial? If the title is to be retained, the article should at least explain what "fake" means.
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I just declined a move protection on this article. A more neutral title would be the way foreward here, me thinks. Wouldn't something like "Ishrat Jahan killing incident" be acceptable? The use of the term "encounter" for these things is a very specific use of the word only common in India afaik, but
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Raj (Bangalore) replies to bidhu 21 Nov, 2011 07:41 PM Yes, there so many hidden truths in the state of
Gujarat that no one believe that they occured in the past 9 years. One by one and all of them will come out in the next one or two years. Once they come out, it will set fire on butts of those who
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bidhu replies to India 21 Nov, 2011 08:10 PM SIT itself. why not. If SIT can say Ishrat jehan was killed in a fake encounter, then SIT has to tell us the identities of the her 2 fellow passengers. This was clear that, there were 3 peoples killed, why no one is asking about other 2 peoples. They were
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Ok.. Lets forget what prashant said, lets forget who was Ishrat Jehan. Lets talk about who were those two peoples died with ishrat jehan. as per wikipedia, I beleve they were pakistani nationals. What she was doing with those 2 peoples. Secondly acording to her mother, she was discussing about put an
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seems to be politically biased website. It cannot be considered as an authentic reference due to its affiliation and information which is a polotical opinion without citing any research, news article. Hence by making this website as a reference, it will curtail the fact and genuinity of the article.
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I think it partially addresses it. When I hear "Death of Ishrat Jahan", I expect to learn about the death of one person. When I hear "Ishrat Jahan case", I only think it is some case involving Ishrat Jahan. I don't necessarily think Ishrat Jahan will be the only person involved in the case. I think
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Please don't put up your political opinions here (Raj, Bangalore). Better to air them with the political people. The PUCL and its website cannot be made as a reference since it is not a news site, nor a news agency. It is a politically motivated and biased group having its own propoganda, which air
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I find that the image in this article is offensive. I am not sure what other thinks about it. I do not know what is policy of wikipedia regarding offensive images. I would request other experienced editors to give a thought about it and to remove the image if rules / guidelines says so. Thanks --
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also humen beings. If they were from any radical group or any terorists, then I must ask what ishrat jehan was doing with them. No metter whats your religion is, if you are doing any crime or has a motive and planning to do, you should be tried in the court of law and get appropriate punishment.
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Its sort of useless image as none of the subject's faces are seen. Also it doesnt show bodies the way they fell but shows them when they were placed after all panchnama had finished. But there is no reason to remove it unless some better replacement is available. Do you wanna suggest some other
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On a more serious note. Almost no one refers to this as the Death of Ishrat Jahan. And, that title is way too specific. OTOH, we have a common name title that is perfectly neutral and doesn't focus on her death alone so I'm not sure why you consider it neither neutral nor descriptive enough?
1745:: It seems very strange to have a title that refers to only one person being killed. Four people were killed. It is better to have an article name that avoids implying otherwise. The suggested title is perhaps not ideal (see, e.g., my prior suggestions), but it is an improvement. —
1189:. The present title is not only questionable on the grounds of neutrality, but practically devoid of meaning to anyone unfamiliar with euphemisms confined to South Asia. Given that it is questioned whether this was an 'encounter' killing at all, I don't think that
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Thanks. Being a doctor, I do not find any image as offensive. I was worried about lay person. It has been observed that generally people dont like offensive images. But if community here 'okeys' the image, I shall have no issue with it. Thanks.
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its political opinion on its website. This cannot be put up in this article to maintain the truthfulness of this article. Terms like "they say" also cannot be taken as a part of this article, when "they" are carrying on with a propoganda.
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The facts so far point to a fake encounter. But what happens if the higher courts find otherwise? Will a possible misleading title be changed according to how a case proceeds? I suggest that 'fake" be put in quotes.
1633:. It's simply a neutral, descriptive name. You say you're concerned that the current title doesn't represent the other deaths involved, but neither does your proposed name. Most importantly, the current title is
946:, which has been established in Gujarat High Court judgement of 2011, now arrests have already started, shift made only after the arrests started in 2013. Media has been using this term for long now. Check out.--
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India (India) replies to bidhu 21 Nov, 2011 07:45 PM But the question is, who should decide if they were terrorists or not. Had this been police, we would have seen another pakistan in place of India.
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the encounter is not known by this name. A mere 41,000 results for this title most of which don't use this phrase as a tile but merely contain the words strung together inside the article.
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1573:. It also clarifies that the article is about a case or encounter rather than about her death. And, finally, it should satisfy the neutrality concerns that prompted the previous move.
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Knowledge can not pass the judgement. Many different versions of encounter are there. Even if some media outlets do so, it can't be done on Wiki. Media is known for passing judgement.
1565:. Second, the story is about the death of four people, not just about Ishrat Jahan. Her particular death has merely become a handy description of the encounter. The proposed title,
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090911075238/http://www.hindustantimes.com/homepage/ahmedabad/Ishrat-Jahan-s-killing-staged-Judicial-probe-report/451517/H1-Article1-451368.aspx
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Unless or until court convict, wikipedia has no right to convict Indian police, or pass the judgement. wikipedia is based on references not rumors. this is not as per
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How about "Four-person police killing in
Gujarat", "Four-person homicide case in Gujarat", or "2004 four-person police killing in Gujarat", or something similar? —
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Raj (Bangalore) replies to bidhu 21 Nov, 2011 08:04 PM Reas the report! Encounter occured in the previous night and all of them were dumped together in a car.
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When there are several names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others
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Just an idea from an outsider (and I thought we could have used the other mentioned article-titles as redirects), but that is not my field of expertise anyway
577:, individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
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be the title of the article because it was common name but because it was more neutral opposed to that no one was suggesting that was not the common name.--
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I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's a good idea. The incident is almost universally known with the term 'encounter' and, per
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The even is not only about Ishrat Jahan. The reason her name is cited in many Indian news because her family were first to request a probe.--
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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I understand your concern, but as long as we're only mentioning one person in the title, does the proposed form really address it? --
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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http://www.hindustantimes.com/homepage/ahmedabad/Ishrat-Jahan-s-killing-staged-Judicial-probe-report/451517/H1-Article1-451368.aspx
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I support changing the title to remove the word 'fake' in it, as it gives a biased perception of the case.
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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There is nothing offensive in the image. Even if the image is offensive (though it is not), Knowledge is
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Agreed .... my concern about offensive title. any appropriate word can be substituted. title should meet
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I have restored the image for the time being, you don't get to remove the image before arriving at a
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Um. I'm arguing against "Death of Ishrat Jahan" under UCN. Or are you suggesting I'm a nobody :) --
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and endless others) as "Ishrat Jahan fake encounter case" and that's what we should use per
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Has there been a final court ruling that declared that the killings were unlawful? —
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938:: I don't see any bias here, let alone a political one, and no NPOV.
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I shall have no objection if community here accepts the image. --
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the title modification changes the interpretation from being
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Requested move to eliminate word "Fake" till judicial verdict
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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For the time being I am removing the image now. Thanks. --
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On 4 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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is now a redirect to this page is no longer true, as the
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles
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The record of that RM discussion can now be found at
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-09-08-voa15.cfm
1523:. No further edits should be made to this section.
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1374:. The article is about an encounter killing... --
1323:. No further edits should be made to this section.
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1718:Yes, that's what I meant. --
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52:1 September 2013
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871:*'''Support'''
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877:*'''Oppose'''
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222:Find sources:
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151:Learn to edit
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1088:Weak Support
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471:project page
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453:India portal
361:
308:WikiProjects
270:
264:
256:
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243:
237:
231:
221:
193:
118:This is the
89:
55:
51:
37:
2064:BarrelProof
2044:BarrelProof
1863:move review
1796:BarrelProof
1790:instead of
1747:BarrelProof
1670:regentspark
1653:regentspark
1611:regentspark
1521:move review
1321:move review
1261:regentspark
1213:regentspark
1129:regentspark
1075:Vivekmandan
1054:regentspark
1021:BarrelProof
985:BarrelProof
776:move review
720:Samastipura
247:free images
130:not a forum
99:P.P. Pandey
93:P.P. Pandey
68:its history
39:P.P. Pandey
2080:Categories
2010:Report bug
1376:Ekabhishek
1296:Discussion
948:Ekabhishek
793:EdJohnston
735:References
579:discussion
524:April 2013
1993:this tool
1986:this tool
1933:dead link
1919:dead link
1834:per nom.
1784:inclusive
1782:to being
1780:exclusive
1368:consensus
1007:Bheemsinh
964:Bheemsinh
905:Bheemsinh
849:Bheemsinh
584:Terrorism
575:terrorism
547:Terrorism
381:Biography
327:Biography
187:if needed
170:Be polite
120:talk page
2030:RMCD bot
1999:Cheers.—
1595:Relisted
1577:Relisted
1441:this one
1282:rkamatar
1153:Lectonar
1111:Lectonar
1005:policy.
1003:WP:NDESC
886:. Since
836:Relisted
818:Relisted
155:get help
128:This is
126:article.
44:deletion
1937:tag to
1923:tag to
1885:my edit
1832:Support
1819:Benfold
1815:Support
1743:Support
1675:comment
1658:comment
1616:comment
1278:Support
1266:comment
1218:comment
1187:Comment
1174:Maproom
1170:Support
1134:comment
1106:Comment
1093:NarasMG
1071:Support
1059:comment
961:WP:NPOV
918:Support
901:Support
675:vvarkey
611:on the
504:on the
298:B-class
253:WP refs
241:scholar
2042:. —
1929:Added
1915:Added
1836:Shovon
1627:Oppose
1604:abjotu
1586:abjotu
1571:WP:UCN
1560:WP:UCN
1539:abjotu
1257:WP:UCN
1191:WP:UCN
1125:WP:UCN
1050:WP:UCN
1040:Oppose
936:Oppose
932:Kuljit
862:Survey
827:abjotu
304:scale.
225:Google
60:merged
1788:which
1601:tariq
1597:. --
1583:tariq
1579:. --
1536:tariq
1532:. --
1402:Dutta
824:tariq
820:. --
785:Moved
657:moved
643:from
641:moved
477:India
466:India
415:India
268:JSTOR
229:books
183:Seek
62:into
56:merge
2068:talk
2048:talk
1840:talk
1823:talk
1800:talk
1792:that
1769:talk
1751:talk
1724:talk
1694:talk
1643:talk
1530:move
1482:talk
1449:§§ {
1420:talk
1394:Tito
1391:. --
1356:talk
1341:talk
1286:talk
1247:talk
1241:. --
1199:talk
1178:talk
1157:talk
1115:talk
1097:talk
1079:talk
1052:. --
1025:talk
1011:talk
989:talk
968:talk
926:talk
909:talk
883:~~~~
853:talk
797:talk
724:talk
679:talk
655:was
603:High
370:and
261:FENS
235:news
172:and
72:here
1967:RfC
1909:to
1899:to
1855:.
1765:BDD
1720:BDD
1639:BDD
1313:.
1243:BDD
1237:to
840:jcc
787:to
647:to
496:Low
275:TWL
46:.
2082::
2070:)
2050:)
1980:.
1975:}}
1971:{{
1935:}}
1931:{{
1921:}}
1917:{{
1842:)
1825:)
1802:)
1771:)
1753:)
1726:)
1696:)
1668:--
1645:)
1593:--
1575:--
1552:→
1513:.
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1476:--
1457:}
1422:)
1358:)
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1180:)
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1117:)
1099:)
1081:)
1045:,
1027:)
1013:)
991:)
970:)
928:)
911:)
874:or
855:)
838:.
834:--
816:--
810:→
799:)
768:.
726:)
681:)
673:--
255:)
153:;
2066:(
2046:(
2012:)
2008:(
1995:.
1988:.
1838:(
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1614:(
1480:(
1455:C
1453:/
1451:T
1418:(
1398:☸
1354:(
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677:(
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615:.
526:.
508:.
474:.
378:.
310::
271:·
265:·
257:·
250:·
244:·
238:·
232:·
227:(
157:.
74:.
20:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.