Talk:Islamic terrorism in Europe/Archive 11

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the Islamic State. The London Bridge stabbing on November 29, 2019 (2 killed (+1), 3 injured)), Paris Police Headquarters Stabbing on October 3, 2019 (4 killed (+1), 2 injured)) in which the perpetrator converted to Salafist Islam.On February 2, 2020 there was the Streatham Stabbing (perpetrator killed, 3 injured), on April 4, 2020 during the Romans-Sur-Isere knife attack in France, a Sudanese asylum seeker killed 2 and injured 5. On April 27, 2020 in Colombes France two police officers were seriously injured when a driver rammed his vehicle into them. He did this to avenge events in Palestine and had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State.

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article in Dutch about 'Utrecht' was first added to the list of to be deleted articles. Probably because we had an important election the very same week of the terrorist attack. Subsequently just called 'a shooting'. The downplaying of 'incidents' on the English Knowledge is ever worse. I do not want to put hours of effort into finding sources and trying to write neutral texts, while a mob of Wiki abbreviation throwing 'old gang' moderators will cancel all my work anyway. By the way, I know after this post, I will get warnings again in my personal page. So be it, it will not change my opinion about this project.

585: 1082:. Also if you disagree with other editors' judgements, there are RfC's and other ways to resolve disagreement. Snide comments about imagined opposition doesn't help anyone. What in your opinion constitutes progress? To me - I do not apologise for saying this - incidents should only be listed here when the overwhelming consensus is that they were Islamic terrorism and it is possible to attribute which court/police official/justice authority has said so. Occasionally 31: 2876:

with EU+. I can see the sense of defining the scope thus, all liberal democracies, all with similar post WWII migrant workforces/refugee populations, many with similar colonial histories and histories of involvement in middle/far east conflicts. The only thing that has made the confused/vague geographical scope tolerable to date IMO is that the number of significant incidents in Eastern Europe and European Turkey/Russia has been small.

2641:, and in this case that's actually an important distinction. I didn't have any particular sources in mind, but ideally we would have a wide variety of academic sources covering the same topic as this article does. And there we run into a problem, because those sources don't exist and never have. The scope of this article, i.e. the particular set of inclusion and exclusion criteria it uses, is wholly original to Knowledge. 1529: 1494: 524: 3300: 3278: 3214: 2989:, but I doubt it (not least because that term would also need to be defined more precisely for the purposes of this article as there is no generally agreed-upon definition). I would perhaps be more optimistic about the prospects of managing to do this if we hadn't already tried—and failed—to fix the scope several times before. This suggestion would still result in treating attacks by 1248:, wouldn't it be a good idea to split 2013 into a subsection of its own, using the Europol information for that year? Is that okay with you or will you revert it? I've been thinking about it for a while, but it isn't worth the effort to take the time to pull out the sources and do the edits only to have the work undone. Thought I should ask first, in the spirit of collaboration. 872:. Also, don't be silly – you know full well that it's not a question of third opinions being unwelcome. I just don't see the point in starting an RfC or a village pump discussion when it's very likely that the next TE-SAT will be released before the discussion can be closed and render the whole issue moot. That doesn't seem like a good use of the community's time. 1556: 1042:

making some headway. Found some sources at the AIVD and I found that reading rather slowly I could actually understand more than half the Dutch words. it won't be long until I'll be able to do useful searching in Dutch. Doing the same thing in Italian or Spanish will be harder, but it's necessary since Europol does a half-hearted job.

2759:. That's the easiest solution and the one I would suggest. It wouldn't mean removing any content, only moving it around between different articles. This is content in search of an appropriate article (or several, rather) to be included within. The content itself is not the problem, the way it's assembled here on this article is. 2626:. This is just one example of where the process has been backwards – when we do it properly, we don't add content first and then go looking for sources that verify it, but rather wait until we have proper sourcing before we add the content. Doing it properly is especially important on a page like this where there are often 2436:, but you are of course correct that we should follow the sources, so I'll remove it. If this belongs on this article, it should probably have a separate entry rather than being mentioned as part of the description of another. I happened to notice that the subject of whether this was Islamic terrorism was brought up at 2211:, "an aspect or feature of a situation. example sentence = ‘we must focus on the cultural dimensions of the problem’. There have been instances in the UK, and I believe in France, for example, where possible radicalisation was one line of inquiry, but a history of mental illness and/or of bizarre behaviour was another. 556:

Add the Utrecht tram shooting (4 killed, 6 injured) on March 18, 2019 in which the perpetrator had an Islamist motive, along with the Lyon bomb explosion on May 24, 2019 in which 13 people were injured when an Algerian man dropped a bomb in front of the bakery and had reportedly pledged allegiance to

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should have been expanded upon) and correct that error. Perhaps in a few years academia will catch up and there will be academic consensus about how to divide the topic of Islamic terrorism geographically, temporally, and perhaps by other parameters (ISIL vs. al-Qaeda vs. lone wolves, indiscriminate

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apologies, I'm less than highly motivated at present with regard to this article and WP generally and therefore feel a bit of a fraud offering any response at all. PERSONALLY, I would favour defining the scope geo-politically, which would probably end up as Western Europe, which is almost synonymous

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The issue is further compounded by the fact that there are four different types of content on this article: the prose (which contains, among other things, analysis of trends and patterns), the list of attacks, the list of plots, and whatever the "response" table is (really, that table is pretty much

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ie precisely as I said, the Dutch AIVD is strongly implying that the incident is Is Ter, but not stating it, why they would do that I don't know, but they do. Just about the only established 'rule' for inclusion in this list is that authority explicitly stste IsTer. Very occasionally, for one reason

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Provide sources that any of these were described by competent authorities - police etc - as being "Islamist terrorism". Pledging allegiance, having recently converted etc would not of itself prove anything. Streatham I imagine, is still being investigated, but the BBC source does not give a motive.

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The attacker was sentenced to life in prison (three counts of murder, three counts of attempted murder) and the judge said the murders had a terrorist connection, that the attacker "held extremist Islamic views", and "His intention, for the purpose of advancing his extremist Islamic cause, was to

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No not really. I could improve a lot on Knowledge, yes I speak and write in about four languages. But I have given up on the project. This is not an encyclopedia! This is a woke social justice warrior message board. If anyone asks me I tell them not to use Knowledge as a source of information. The

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You can't supply the text where AIVD says that the Utrecht incident is Is Ter as previously asked, so can you please point to the text where AIVD says "here is a list of Islamic Terror attacks"? You can't because they simply don't. The incident may well ultimately be identified thus, at present it

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Please tell me where you think AIVD categorises/describes it thus? I have no problem acknowledging that they strongly imply that they think it is - simply by discussing in that context, if nothing elae, but I cannot see anywhere that they say this explicitly. I doubt that this is about a nuance of

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There are ways to try to fix or at least mitigate the problems with the scope, but they all entail radically changing the way this article is constructed. We could adjust the scope geographically/geopolitically (perhaps changing it to Western Europe or "the West" in general) and/or temporally, or

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Whoever keeps adding the words "islamic terrorism" and related templates to the article, should better find reliable sources for this. As it stands now, the perpetrators were found guilty of an "intention to murder" and not of terrorism. The article, based on sources, also makes it clear that the

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The geographical scope remains unresolved however - the issue was postponed at the time that the '2014' cut off was dropped. I don't agree with TD's solution, but I wholeheartedly agree with his analysis. "In geographical Europe" is almost as random as "in countries beginning with a 'B'". Little

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Arnhem 27 Sept 2018 - Dutch police grab seven terror suspects fas they foil major attack with suicide vests, assault rifles and car bombs. Suspects were rounded up in flash raids by heavily armed police in Arnhem and Weert following a months long investivation of their group leader was a ardent

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I understand and can certainly relate to the parts of spending hours finding reliable sources in several languages, only to get reverted by someone who spent two seconds throwing a three-letter abbreviation at you. Too bad, this article and enWP in general really could use the help. Anyway, I am

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nightmare—as I said above, this is an arbitrary collection of disparate topics which equally arbitrarily excludes things which the sources consider part of the same topic(s), and the particular set of inclusion and exclusion criteria this article uses is wholly original to Knowledge. I would be

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Ah yeah okay. I am also rather busy. The thing is that on the one hand I am giving up making articles more neutral. On the other hand I don't want to be 'bullied away' also. I speak Dutch, English, German and Spanish by the way. For certain lemma's I have also read stuff in French, Italian and

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Weiterhin werden der Vorlage zufolge die Strafgesetzbuch-Paragrafen 89a ("Vorbereitung einer schweren staatsgefährdenden Gewalttat"), 89b ("Aufnahme von Beziehungen zur Begehung einer schweren staatsgefährdenden Gewalttat"), 89c ("Terrorismusfinanzierung") und 91 ("Anleitung zur Begehung einer

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Just stop it, will you? You're either not reading properly, being willfully obtuse, or simply do not understand what sources are used for on Knowledge. There is no double standard; we're not adding either to the article without proper sourcing. And since we're not adding it to the article, the

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As you well know, that source wasn't cited in the article when I removed the entry. I'm not going to go trawling through the internet to see if I can find a source that would justify inclusion when no such source has been cited; finding sources is the responsibility of the editor who adds the

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I am saddened that 1Kwords should think that waiting for a source that ACTUALLY SAYS what he wants to insert, should be considered a waste of time. Of course no source uses IsTer, however it's marginally clearer on talk than IT or any other way of abbreviating - apologies for being a lazy

2712:, but they are not – the lists define the scope geographically, but the sources define the scope geopolitically. The prose takes the geopolitical approach, being based upon sources that do likewise. To solve this, we need to either match the lists to the prose or the prose to the lists. 790:. If you had seen what an absurd, and probably libelous mess this article was when "what is obvious" was the criterion for inclusion, you would probably not be proposing this. The article is meant to be a reliable, verifiable list, not a jumble of 'probable' cases, nor a 'score-card'. 3284:. I think the solution is simple: clarify the geographical scope clearly in the lede, then adjust the article accordingly. I think the real conversation (consensusbuilding-exercise) we should have, is one about what should the scope be - rather than whether this article should exist. 2127:

Simply because it was an attack with Islamist dimensions, it would not automatically be notable. There have been incidents in UK, especially where no one was hurt, and mental health was as much an issue as terrorism, where coverage was minimal and very short-lived.

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perhaps some other way, to better reflect the sources. Of course, we have tried to resolve the problem this way before without much success (and the successive scope changes may have even contributed to the problem). We could also remove the prose (or merge it to

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Is 2008 Exeter attempted bombing an Islamist plot ... The person convicted is described as having learning difficulties, but coming under radical influences. While there was a terrorist conviction, no Islamist motive appears to have been spelt out by authorities.

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source anyhow. It matters because there are two standards of evidence in operation here: learning difficulties can be attributed to a newspaper journalist, but Islamic terrororism must be attributed to a judge or official police report. Everyone can see this.

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If you read that sentence again, you'll note that it doesn't attribute that part of the claim to the police – only the part about believing he was encouraged by extremists in Pakistan. The part about learning difficulties is in the newspaper equivalent of

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really be "we") monitor sources. Add them here as they are published and if any of them verify the Reading attack as Islamic terrorism. Simply updates on the case like commencing or concluding trials are helpful on this and other events in this section.

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are you up for the task of imvproving this article? There are a few tasks that need to be done, but the article cannot currently progress in the face of current opposition. Also, be wary of editors who do not contribute sources to talk page discussions.

2833:, if I had assumed that you agree with me I would have had no reason to ask for clarification about whether you do. I asked because your reply didn't seem to address the majority of what I had written, and I want to know whether you agree with me. 2303:

IKwords, excuse me!!! Where exactly do I argue either for or against creating such an article? Pointing out policy is not arguing for or against anything. I have no idea whether there should be such an article and have therefore voiced no opinion.

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and we have been stuck trying to retroactively justify its existence ever since with successive title changes and scope modifications. I think it's time we acknowledged that this article should never have been created in the first place (rather,

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Repeating it doesn't make your objection any less invalid. AIVD is an authority which lists the Utrecht attack among all other Islamic Terror attacks. This is precisly why third opinions are needed, which all involved editors should welcome.

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attribution, but not without it. If you find a source which you think is sufficient to include something on the page, you can simply add it yourself. There is no need to come to the talk page and ask why nobody else has added it first.

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I am unable to access one of the two sources cited because it is behind a paywall, but can we attribute the classification of Islamic terrorism to any official source? If we cannot, the entry should be removed. If we can, we should add

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vs. targeted attacks, and so on) into parts that can be analysed separately, but we're not there yet. If and when that happens, we can of course create the sub-articles with the scopes academia has determined to be the relevant ones.

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speak of Asperger's, personality disorder and learning difficulties, so that element isn't in much doubt - nor is there much disagreement about him being probably manipulated online. The missing element is officialdom saying A+B = C.

771:) of the AIVD article is being contested by editors who do not have Dutch language skills, it is time for an RfC. Besides, one does not have to ask permission to launch an RfC. Or is a question in the Village Pump the better option? 3532:

And also in this Islamic terrorism in Europe article aren't mentioned some other terrorists attacks in Europe, not only in Russia. Almost all islamic terror attacks were made in the European side of Russia, not the Asian side.

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Not sure Pincrete's interpretation is correct. Have you made additions to this article using Dutch sources, Pincrete? If not, I think it is time to open an RfC on this so we can get input from editors who actually read Dutch.

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Sourcing issues aside, a stacked bar chart is not a good way to present this information as it combines different types of figures into a single sum. It does not make comparisons between years easier, but more difficult.

1450:. I have seen other sources today which use similar language - AFAI can see, it was only early reports which spoke of an ACTUAL beheading. I did not want to remove the initial refs, as they may provide additional info. 786:

or another, we have had to wait until the annual European report until getting a clear ref. I do not know of a single "missed case". What you are proposing is that we revert to "what is obvious" ie personal opinion ie

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Do either of you have a counter-suggestion about what to do about the scope? Or any sources to back up your assertion that this subject (i.e. Islamic terrorism in geographical Europe since at least the 1990s) meets

890:, AIVD would probably not have been the only ones to have said so. Indeed civil authority is more usually the source for info about motive. So maybe someone else has said explicitly what AIVD have only implied. 2941:

connects European Turkey with N Europe, historically, politically or in coverage by sources. It is only the fact that terrorist events in Eastern Europe have been rare, that has not highlighted the oddity IMO.

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attribution to official sources for this being Islamic terrorism, which is the threshold for inclusion for this article. If you disagree with that reading of the source, you are free to re-add the entry, with

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if there are any I have missed—it would make it possible for us to rewrite the prose such that it actually describes the topic of the article and not a bunch of related/similar topics as is currently the

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For a number of off-wiki reasons, my own commitment to WP at present is little more than 'watching' articles I have previously been involved in and sometimes tweaking grammar or phrasing as I spot things.

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an official source but you people blocked it anyway. How much better a source than a publication by a security service do you expect? What counts as an "official source" in your opinion, except Europol?

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solely a navigational aid right now – if it were converted to prose it might however be able to be informative as well). The reason that that is a compounding factor is that the scopes don't match. The

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reliable sources. The AIVD example above concerning the Utrecht attack shows that my evaluation of the AIVD source was eventually vindicated by Europol, yet you are the one calling calling me "obtuse".

205:. This is very strange, because if I added material to this article with a source saying "police believed this was a jihadist attack", it would be deleted since it come from a judge or a public report. 2610:), but the problem at hand is that a bunch of stuff has been added to the article without proper sourcing over the years. For example, we don't actually have adequate sourcing for the inclusion of the 3426: 1263:

There is nothing in particular that is wrong or bad about your suggestion (at least not that I can think of right now), but I have made a different suggestion that is mutually exclusive to yours, see

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the way this article does, for instance). Rather, this is an arbitrary collection of disparate topics which equally arbitrarily excludes things which the sources consider part of the same topic(s).

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The suspected perpetrator of a series of car crashes on a Berlin motorway on Tuesday evening has cited Islamist motives but appears to have acted alone, German police and prosecutors said Wednesday

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Selon le ministre de l'Intérieur Gérald Darmanin toutefois, il y a peu de doute: "manifestement c'est un acte de terrorisme islamiste", a déclaré le ministre sur France 2 ce vendredi soir.

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as a whole absolutely fits that description, the topic of this article—Islamic terrorism in geographical Europe since at least the 1990s—doesn't. Don't get me wrong, there are several

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covered by sources: often the geographical scope is smaller—e.g. the EU, Western Europe, or individual countries (sometimes two or three)—and sometimes it intersects ("the West").

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And more than a year later, the NL Times tag delivers information on the trial but has no info that it has concluded. It is clearly a terrorist trial. Keep for further monitoring.

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Not sure you are reading that correctly, because that would be atrocious journalism juxtaposing the journalist's opinion with police information. but "wiki voice" is not a

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It was released yesterday, yes. And as expected, it rendered the AIVD discussion moot. The attack can now be added. I'll do that later today if nobody else does it first.

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Don't derail the discussion by bringing up the Irish Troubles or vague hypotheses theories about psychiatric illness. Support your arguments with sources. Pretty please.

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there may be incidents which have compound motives, where inclusion is a matter of judgement. I was editing this article when an obscure source half-way across the globe

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https://www.bka.de/DE/DasBKA/OrganisationAufbau/Fachabteilungen/IslamistischmotivierterTerrorismusExtremismus/IslamistischmotivierterTerrorismusExtremismus_node.html

2614:– I went looking for sources for that specific attack back in July, and found that it was surprisingly difficult to find sources that are up to our standards, so 911: 1989: 2501:

is to actually find sources and add material to the article, TompaDompa. I'm pretty much the only editor left who does this, whether that makes other editors

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Indeed BBC and the New York Times are not reporting the motive. Okay it seems that someone has to take up the task of searching for sources in Dutch. Perhaps

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isn't. I can't stop you seeking third party opinion, though I don't see the necessity, simply recognising the difference between what a source actually says

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That's right, you neither can nor should stop me from seeking third opinions. It is strange that third opinions appear to be unwelcome in this discussion.

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AIVD doesn't categorise Utrect as Islamic Terrorism - the fact that they speak of the Utrect incident in this context, strongly implies that they think it

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I made a graph showing the Islamic Attacks in Europe through the years. I find it informative to visualise all the victims of the attacks in one graph.

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Der Mann mit radikal-islamistischer Gesinnung sei der Vorbereitung einer schweren staatsgefährdenden Gewalttat schuldig, hieß es am Freitag im Urteil

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Can we attribute the person having "learning difficulties" to any official source? Claiming someone has a mental disability can be stigmatising.

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Nore will be added as they are found. More links with press releases from security police in Germany, France, Spain, Belgium etc would be good.

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It is not uncommon for the sources to only consider a limited timeframe or to focus solely on certain actors such as ISIL. But those are merely

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A Libyan man stabbed civilians in Forbury Gardens in Reading, England in June 2020. Police are treating it as a terrorist incident. Sources:

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Why would I want sources when I have no intention of inserting content drawing any comparison? Our discussion is about your statement:

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AIVD source is simply wrong and that's what has wasted time for the community. As for accusations of "score board" keeping, please see

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I am surprised to hear that you think that's what I was saying, but am I to take this to mean that you otherwise agree with me here?

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Is Russia not in Europe? In this article about Islamic terrorism in europe almost nothing about Russia. Just look at other articles

3055:, and I'm sure they genuinely believe that to be the case, but the fact of the matter is that they are mistaken; while the topic of 2437: 197:

But police aren't psychiatrists or educational experts. It also doesn't say which police, simply "police". It is not a statement by

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I'll ask you the same question I asked the other editors above: do you have a counter-suggestion about what to do about the scope?

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Hello, the article clearly says it was a beheading. Could you please point out where does it say "attempted beheading"? Thank you,

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Der 20-Jährige ist ein radikaler Islamist, bereits vorbestraft und nun wegen Mordes und versuchten Mordes in Untersuchungshaft.

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My God that there is even a discussion about this says a lot about the bias of Knowledge. Of course it is islamic terrorism.

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out and Utrecht is mentioned in the Jihadist section on page 35. It is clear that Pincrete's obstruction against using

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sourcing doesn't matter. You're arguing as if you don't understand the difference between an article and a talk page.

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It's great that you find sources and add material to the article (though it's not really accurate to say that you're

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https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/un-homme-poignarde-des-passants-a-villejuif-la-police-le-neutralise-20200103

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Every skilled editor should realise the relevance and meaning of this Bundestag publication for the topic at hand.

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Some sources even say "Europe" in the title and then clarify in the text that they are not referring to all of it.

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Some sources even say "Europe" in the title and then clarify in the text that they are not referring to all of it.

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Pincrete, do you have any sources connecting this attack to other attacks in France or the UK you are mentioning?

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with seeking other sources than Europol TE SAT reports. On another note, no source uses the strange abbreviation

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is expected to release the next TE-SAT soon, so we will probably be able to add the 2019 events before too long.

2687:. Of course, this does not even remotely match the scopes of any of the sources (I doubt there is even a single 2480:, but a collaborative effort. We all strive to improve this article, and ideally, we should want it to meet the 1468: 1464: 1439: 1425: 336:

content. We don't add content first and then go looking for sources that verify it, that's completely backwards.

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Well it seems you have found a good ally in Kashmiri then, TompaDompa. Good job on the deletions, by the way.

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For example Gdn "The three people who died in the attack were a 60-year-old woman who was almost decapitated"

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https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-arrest-3-iraqi-refugees-suspected-of-planning-terror-attack/a-47287328

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Reilly - who converted to Islam between 2002 and 2003 - had learning difficulties and Asperger's syndrome.

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Police believe the Plymouth man, who has learning difficulties, was encouraged by extremists in Pakistan.

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https://www.aivd.nl/onderwerpen/jaarverslagen/jaarverslag-2019/jihadistisch-terrorisme-en-radicale-islam

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Those events appear to be separatist attacks, performed by Muslims, rather than Islamist in character.

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let's keep it here until further developments. One of the arrested had tried to join ISIL previously.

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Islamic Terror Attacks in Europe (number of Deaths, Injuries, Kills (Attackers) and Attacks per year).

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be enough to merit inclusion in this article? The double standard says not. 05:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

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But none of this really matters because it's not something that we're adding to the article anyway.

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OneK, apologies, perhaps you are not a native speaker, I was using 'dimensions' to mean 'aspects'.

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motive behind the attack was "revenge" and not religion (i.e., a sense of a religious obligation).

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I was referring to your conduct on this talk page (and to some extent in edit summaries, such as

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as part of the same topic based solely on an Islamist motive, which may or may not be justified)

630:. This source took about 30 seconds to find using a competent search engine. What do you think? 421:

nor I had any objections to AIVD based on the reliability/quality/"officialness" of the source.

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Yet another brave, snide, snotty remark cluttering up the talk page - take it elsewhere please!

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What are you getting at? You're the one who called it a suspected Islamist attack, citing the

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Fusillades en Autriche : l’assaillant tué à Vienne est un « sympathisant de l’Etat islamique »

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However, looking through that Guardian article you linked I don't see anything we can use for

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The Netherlands has the counter-terrorism authority NCTV. Official news feed (in English):

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to be proven wrong about this, by the way, so please present sources that demonstrate that

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A convert started stabbing people, two were wounded and one was killed. Source Le Figaro:

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Note that the entire article is about jihadist or islamist terrorism per the title, which

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Only you know why you are arguing against creating a standalone aricle for this attack.

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Any volunteers up for collaborating on finding sources? Don't be shy, anyone can join.

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Pledging allegiance, having recently converted etc would not of itself prove anything.

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doesn't seem to have a problem with categorizing this terrorist attack as jihadist.

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https://rapportannuel.policefederale.be/securite/terrorisme-extremisme-radicalisme/

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https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/schleswig-holstein-terrorverdacht-bka-1.4309062

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So your approach to collaboration is to assume that other editors agree with you?

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Wholly agree. It is also clear that if Dutch authorities concluded this was IsTer

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in Germany has, since November, a department dedicated towards Islamic extremism.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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No worries Pincrete, since you have already said no at some point in the past.

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described by competent authorities - police etc - as being "Islamist terrorism"

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BBC "In Nice, one elderly victim was "virtually beheaded", officials said"

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now has a standalone article and was added to the article. Many thanks to

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Done and wait for archiver: Paris teacher stabbed/decapitated October 2020

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Done and wait for archiver: Cell in Arnhem arrrested ... and found guilty

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No action needed, wait for archiver: Berlin vehicle rams people July 2020

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would you like to collaborate on finding the "sources beyond reproach"?

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That source verifies terrorism, but not specifically Islamic terrorism.

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I'm following the developments. Here is a press release from the Dutch

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the Dutch language, but I may well have missed something in the source.

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I don't understand why you take such an adversarial approach to this.

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Thanks for letting me know which source I cited. Have a nice weekend.

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kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible." See

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Already knew that you don't search for sources, no need to write it.

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I am surprised to hear that you think finding sources is difficult.

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Already done - wait for the archiver: Vienna shootings November 2020

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is an abbreviation for terrorism, please provide a source for that.

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be obvious to English-only eidtors. Since even the title (i.e. the

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schweren staatsgefährdenden Gewalttat") dem Terrorismus zugeordnet.

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Which specific sources are you thinking of? Please provide links.

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The conceit is that it is in some way meaningful to consider the

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See, TompaDompa deleted information about a London terrorist plot

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Terrorism_in_Russia#Contemporary_Russia

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In the beginning of October two German tourists were stabbed in

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Isis follower tried to create jihadist child army in east London

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If you want a third opinion with regards to AIVD, I agree with

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Islamic_terrorism_in_Russia

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https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Islamic_Attacks_Europe.png

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Now that you urge a collaborative approach and mention that

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Yes, I know. That's why I said you cited the National Post.

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What were those Islamist dimensions you were talking about?

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 October 2020

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turns up a lot of search results in Dutch which amounts to

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rightly noted, we need reliable sources that this has been

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Here we have two editors asserting that there should be a

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Done and wait for archiver: Dresden October 2020 stabbing

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Added to article, Dithmarschen is in Schleswig-Holstein.

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 June 2020

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Suspected islamist car ramming attack in Berlin aug 2020

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France: Teacher decapitated, suspect shot dead by police

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Federal police of Belgium has a web page on terrorism:

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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-53127095

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article. What do you think should be a suitable name,

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The suggestion has been moved to a thread of its own.

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In other words, the entry can be re-added if there is

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Talk:21 July 2005 London bombings#"Islamic terrorism"

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This event is already mentioned in the entry for the

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All Islamist terrorist attacks in Germany live up to

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All Islamist terrorist attacks in Germany live up to

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https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/terrorisme/

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article it well sourced and clearly notable and has

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https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/latest-news/

2707:should be unambiguous, objective, and supported by 2691:source with a somewhat similar scope that includes 1122:Three people arrested according to Deutsche Welle: 315:The Guardian example clearly shows that you delete 1126:. Let's keep it to see if further sources appear. 3366:MI5 in the UK, click "Convictions and arrests" : 2271:To which the obvious - policy based - answer is: 1264: 3019:, and indiscriminate spree killings such as the 1057:Swedish, but I cannot write in those languages. 3495:Belgian newspaper Le Soir has a tag to follow: 2985:Maybe we could fix the scope by limiting it to 3083:topics. The actual scope of this article is a 2608:pretty much the only editor left who does this 2389:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6284350.stm 2059:It would be too early to say if this received 938:can be confused with the Islamic State and if 595:that support the change you want to be made. 8: 3321:useful sources to find events & articles 3035:2014 Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu ramming attack 2743:instead. We could even merge the content to 2677:2014 Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu ramming attack 2387:A source about the conclusion of the trial: 3534: 3497:https://www.lesoir.be/4556/iptc/terrorisme 3173:Which sources would those be, TompaDompa? 2753:List of thwarted Islamic terrorist attacks 2737:List of thwarted Islamic terrorist attacks 2729:List of thwarted Islamic terrorist attacks 2325:TompaDompa, the National Post source says 1671:NLTimes.nl has tag which can be followed. 1241:Proposed "List of attacks/2013" subsection 3104:This article was created back in 2016 as 2142:How many Islamist dimensions were there? 1669:https://nltimes.nl/tags/27-september-cell 3368:https://www.mi5.gov.uk/news-and-speeches 2661:Shchelkovo Highway police station attack 1758: 3170: 2706: 2607: 2445: 2326: 1861: 1401: 1373:for constructive work on the article. 1198: 939: 935: 931: 654: 650: 623: 493: 464: 354: 275: 229: 179: 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3341:https://www.nouvelobs.com/terrorisme/ 2505:depends on their approaches I guess. 1303:Why would a subsection be beneficial? 1090:motive was looked on as good enough. 7: 3188:That would for instance be the book 2617:I added the best source I could find 2031:More info published 5 April 2021 by 1184:September 2020 stabbing attack near 615:Utrect attack classification by AIVD 3455:https://english.nctv.nl/latest/news 1726:so the terrorist cell could have a 719:. I don't know why, but they don't. 3437:fr:Parquet national antiterroriste 3015:, coordinated attacks such as the 2749:List of Islamist terrorist attacks 2733:List of Islamist terrorist attacks 2725:List of Islamist terrorist attacks 2521:sourcing has to be beyond reproach 2478:WP:Knowledge is not a battleground 2007:investigated as a terrorist attack 1938:this is the place where I (but it 1811:Villejuif stabbing attack Jan 2020 24: 3476:https://nltimes.nl/tags/terrorism 1902:Reading stabbing attack June 2020 3435:France has something called the 3298: 3276: 3212: 2959:This article should remain as a 2157:How long is a piece of string??? 1554: 1492: 583: 522: 29: 18:Talk:Islamic terrorism in Europe 3007:2011 Frankfurt Airport shooting 2913:The article should remain as a 2623:tagged it as being insufficient 2099:Usually, but not automatically. 2013:and have a standalone article. 1882:There is a standalone article: 353:said when I removed the entry, 3192:by Petter Nesser, which says " 2868:23:41, 28 September 2020 (UTC) 2843:23:04, 26 September 2020 (UTC) 2826:04:57, 26 September 2020 (UTC) 2812:00:54, 26 September 2020 (UTC) 2798:21:35, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 2784:19:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 2769:16:44, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 2592:15:23, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 2578:07:00, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 2564:05:06, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 2547:16:25, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 2533:05:18, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 2515:04:46, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 2494:21:59, 23 September 2020 (UTC) 2472:19:14, 23 September 2020 (UTC) 2458:12:33, 23 September 2020 (UTC) 2419:12:29, 23 September 2020 (UTC) 2404:06:32, 23 September 2020 (UTC) 2384:This event could be researched 2273:Usually, but not automatically 1847:23:21, 28 September 2020 (UTC) 1702:They received prison sentences 1664:11:37, 30 September 2018 (UTC) 1643:07:14, 29 September 2018 (UTC) 1291:06:05, 26 September 2020 (UTC) 1277:16:51, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 1258:18:23, 24 September 2020 (UTC) 1233:18:11, 26 September 2020 (UTC) 1211:19:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC) 624:murder with a terrorist motive 1: 3565:06:49, 5 September 2021 (UTC) 3549:19:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC) 3272:04:33, 26 November 2020 (UTC) 2917:article as the subject meets 2653:2015 Istanbul suicide bombing 2368:10:26, 6 September 2020 (UTC) 2354:08:57, 6 September 2020 (UTC) 2339:06:25, 6 September 2020 (UTC) 2314:16:05, 6 September 2020 (UTC) 2299:10:26, 6 September 2020 (UTC) 2285:06:50, 6 September 2020 (UTC) 2256:06:25, 6 September 2020 (UTC) 2221:08:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC) 2203:07:52, 2 September 2020 (UTC) 2183:05:57, 2 September 2020 (UTC) 2169:22:23, 1 September 2020 (UTC) 2152:18:39, 1 September 2020 (UTC) 2138:17:39, 1 September 2020 (UTC) 2123:14:22, 1 September 2020 (UTC) 2109:05:07, 1 September 2020 (UTC) 2095:05:03, 1 September 2020 (UTC) 1585:No specifics given, but keep 1265:#21 July 2005 London bombings 1156:07:41, 26 February 2019 (UTC) 93:2008 Exeter attempted bombing 3514:07:18, 7 February 2021 (UTC) 3466:09:01, 26 January 2020 (UTC) 3411:18:51, 26 October 2019 (UTC) 3254:16:02, 29 October 2020 (UTC) 3231:14:24, 29 October 2020 (UTC) 3206:09:02, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3190:Islamist Terrorism in Europe 3183:05:06, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3155:00:36, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 3124:23:34, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 3009:) as part of a single topic 2981:04:27, 18 October 2020 (UTC) 2951:06:36, 17 October 2020 (UTC) 2935:06:06, 17 October 2020 (UTC) 2886:13:21, 13 October 2020 (UTC) 2377:21 July 2005 London bombings 1974:23:23, 11 January 2021 (UTC) 1896:07:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC) 1878:07:11, 3 November 2020 (UTC) 1860:Suspect was IS sympathiser: 1787:Waldkraiburg terrorist trial 1748:07:14, 3 November 2020 (UTC) 1714:18:37, 16 October 2020 (UTC) 1619:16:43, 1 November 2020 (UTC) 1574:22:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC) 1548:22:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC) 1477:19:12, 30 October 2020 (UTC) 1460:19:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC) 1434:18:42, 30 October 2020 (UTC) 1414:05:23, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 1383:05:19, 24 October 2020 (UTC) 1358:18:36, 16 October 2020 (UTC) 1340:18:36, 16 October 2020 (UTC) 1136:21:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC) 1118:January 2019 plot in Germany 1080:there are places to air them 3520:Islamic terrorism in Russia 3449:14:37, 6 January 2020 (UTC) 3394:15:26, 5 October 2019 (UTC) 3379:15:26, 5 October 2019 (UTC) 3017:7 July 2005 London bombings 2858:Thoughts on my suggestion? 2657:November 2015 Paris attacks 2649:7 July 2005 London bombings 2612:7 July 2005 London bombings 2434:7 July 2005 London bombings 2077:21:33, 31 August 2020 (UTC) 2023:10:36, 29 August 2020 (UTC) 2002:05:54, 21 August 2020 (UTC) 1829:08:50, 4 January 2020 (UTC) 1519:to reactivate your request. 1507:has been answered. Set the 1505:Islamic terrorism in Europe 1313:12:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC) 1092:The article was a joke then 549:to reactivate your request. 537:has been answered. Set the 535:Islamic terrorism in Europe 485:Just to have more fun with 441:Court proceedings in Berlin 3581: 3358:12:58, 13 March 2021 (UTC) 3315:10:23, 24 April 2021 (UTC) 3294:14:05, 11 April 2021 (UTC) 3039:Orlando nightclub shooting 2999:2004 Madrid train bombings 2997:), al-Qaeda in the 2000s ( 2685:Orlando nightclub shooting 2645:2004 Madrid train bombings 2044:13:45, 11 April 2021 (UTC) 1953:08:11, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 1931:17:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC) 1681:21:39, 17 April 2019 (UTC) 1650:Public Prosecution Service 1174:18:06, 1 August 2020 (UTC) 1098:, and certainly wortless. 417:, you'll see that neither 347:attribution, yourself. As 3047:article because there is 2482:WP:Featured list criteria 1805:07:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC) 1695:18:09, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 1609:, will remove from list. 1599:08:01, 26 July 2020 (UTC) 1400:by a Syrian described as 1108:16:05, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 1067:12:07, 26 July 2020 (UTC) 1052:09:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC) 1034:09:46, 26 July 2020 (UTC) 1016:12:21, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 998:17:15, 24 July 2020 (UTC) 982:10:36, 24 June 2020 (UTC) 967:07:54, 24 June 2020 (UTC) 952:06:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC) 900:07:32, 23 June 2020 (UTC) 882:07:25, 23 June 2020 (UTC) 864:06:26, 23 June 2020 (UTC) 850:23:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 830:19:12, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 800:16:43, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 781:13:45, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 759:10:17, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 744:09:45, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 729:09:06, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 707:06:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 689:The Dutch secret service 685:06:08, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 667:21:02, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 640:19:00, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 609:18:10, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 572:18:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 507:18:34, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 481:18:13, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 445:A court case is underway 431:16:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 409:15:37, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 390:05:45, 24 July 2020 (UTC) 376:00:35, 24 July 2020 (UTC) 330:18:06, 23 July 2020 (UTC) 292:06:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC) 263:05:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC) 242:08:05, 12 July 2020 (UTC) 215:05:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC) 193:12:39, 11 July 2020 (UTC) 175:08:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC) 161:06:33, 11 July 2020 (UTC) 142:05:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC) 128:18:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 108:12:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 3487:12:17, 6 July 2021 (UTC) 3111:Islamic terrorism#Europe 3106:Wave of Terror in Europe 3003:2016 Berlin truck attack 2757:Islamic terrorism#Europe 2745:Islamic terrorism#Europe 2741:Islamic terrorism#Europe 2717:Islamic terrorism#Europe 1589:for further monitoring. 888:(which is very possible) 715:, but they don't say it 459:21:16, 21 May 2019 (UTC) 3049:WP:Significant coverage 3025:. All of that is while 3013:Murder of Theo van Gogh 2993:in the 1990s (e.g. the 2667:(and possibly also the 1835:2020 Villejuif stabbing 3136:Pharaoh of the Wizards 3021:2018 Strasbourg attack 3001:), ISIL in the 2010s ( 2973:Pharaoh of the Wizards 1920:2020 Reading stabbings 1918:* Standalone article: 1793:InnSalzach24.de source 1533: 1467:Very well, thank you. 1344:Terror probe opened - 355:Do not re-add without 148:main 'attempt' article 3094:this particular scope 1736:Arnhem terrorist cell 1720:Arnhemse terreurgroep 1531: 1469:Georgethedragonslayer 1440:Georgethedragonslayer 1426:Georgethedragonslayer 1367:Murder of Samuel Paty 1188:headquarters in Paris 1096:was probably libelous 972:two-fingered typist. 912:The new TE SAT report 471:. Adding to article. 228:does the same thing: 42:of past discussions. 3031:September 11 attacks 3029:attacks such as the 3005:), and lone wolves ( 2995:1995 France bombings 2965:Significant coverage 2681:2015 Ankara bombings 2673:September 11 attacks 2669:1995 France bombings 2061:WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE 1540:Gebruiker-informatie 3474:Also try NL Times: 2816:It was a question! 1884:2020 Vienna attacks 469:Berliner Morgenpost 146:The sources on the 2921:and therefore the 2633:I didn't say sourc 2440:back in May, when 2379:(and other topics) 1631:supporter of ISIS. 1534: 1420:2020 Nice stabbing 3551: 3539:comment added by 3417:Bundeskriminalamt 3325:See these links: 3074: 3057:Islamic terrorism 3024: 2665:2017 Turku attack 2431: 2113:"automatically"? 1523: 1522: 675:could assist us? 626:according to the 582: 553: 552: 90: 89: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3572: 3506:A Thousand Words 3479:A Thousand Words 3458:A Thousand Words 3441:A Thousand Words 3403:A Thousand Words 3386:A Thousand Words 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Words 1562: 1558: 1557: 1514: 1510: 1496: 1495: 1489: 1406:A Thousand Words 1375:A Thousand Words 1350:A Thousand Words 1332:A Thousand Words 1283:A Thousand Words 1250:A Thousand Words 1225:A Thousand Words 1203:A Thousand Words 1166:A Thousand Words 1143:Another source: 1076:A Thousand Words 1044:A Thousand Words 1021:A Thousand Words 1008:A Thousand Words 944:A Thousand Words 856:A Thousand Words 822:A Thousand Words 773:A Thousand Words 736:A Thousand Words 699:A Thousand Words 677:A Thousand Words 632:A Thousand Words 593:reliable sources 587: 586: 576: 544: 540: 526: 525: 519: 499:A Thousand Words 473:A Thousand Words 401:A Thousand Words 382:A Thousand Words 352: 322:A Thousand Words 255:A Thousand Words 207:A Thousand Words 167:A Thousand Words 134:A Thousand Words 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3580: 3579: 3575: 3574: 3573: 3571: 3570: 3569: 3522: 3323: 3237: 3223: 3129: 2847: 2704:WP:LISTCRITERIA 2630:issues at play. 2621: 2615: 2599: 2381: 2075: 2054: 1986: 1961:The Independent 1904: 1857: 1813: 1789: 1784: 1783: 1782: 1775: 1771: 1764: 1760: 1627: 1582: 1555: 1553: 1512: 1508: 1493: 1487: 1422: 1393: 1325: 1243: 1190: 1120: 1059:AntonHogervorst 1039:AntonHogervorst 1026:AntonHogervorst 1003:AntonHogervorst 990:AntonHogervorst 924:WP:BATTLEGROUND 838:(at this stage) 617: 591:please provide 584: 542: 538: 523: 517: 443: 413:If you re-read 350:my edit summary 348: 95: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3578: 3576: 3568: 3567: 3521: 3518: 3517: 3516: 3499: 3492: 3491: 3490: 3489: 3469: 3468: 3451: 3432: 3431: 3430: 3429: 3421: 3420: 3413: 3382: 3381: 3363: 3362: 3361: 3360: 3343: 3331: 3330: 3322: 3319: 3318: 3317: 3296: 3274: 3257: 3256: 3234: 3233: 3209: 3208: 3168: 3167: 3166: 3165: 3164: 3163: 3162: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3158: 3157: 3096:is covered by 2987:Western Europe 2911: 2910: 2909: 2908: 2907: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2903: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2899: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2892: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2713: 2700: 2642: 2637:, I said sourc 2596: 2595: 2594: 2549: 2535: 2517: 2422: 2421: 2392: 2391: 2385: 2380: 2374: 2373: 2372: 2371: 2370: 2323: 2322: 2321: 2320: 2319: 2318: 2317: 2316: 2244: 2243: 2242: 2241: 2240: 2239: 2238: 2237: 2236: 2235: 2234: 2233: 2232: 2231: 2230: 2229: 2228: 2227: 2226: 2225: 2224: 2223: 2209:Meaning 2 here 2069: 2053: 2050: 2049: 2048: 2047: 2046: 2026: 2025: 2004: 1985: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1979: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1915: 1914: 1903: 1900: 1899: 1898: 1880: 1856: 1853: 1852: 1851: 1850: 1849: 1812: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1788: 1785: 1781: 1780: 1769: 1757: 1756: 1752: 1751: 1750: 1716: 1698: 1697: 1683: 1666: 1626: 1623: 1622: 1621: 1602: 1601: 1581: 1578: 1577: 1576: 1521: 1520: 1497: 1486: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1479: 1421: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1392: 1389: 1388: 1387: 1386: 1385: 1361: 1360: 1342: 1324: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1315: 1296: 1295: 1294: 1293: 1242: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1214: 1213: 1189: 1182: 1181: 1180: 1179: 1178: 1177: 1176: 1159: 1158: 1119: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1069: 986: 985: 984: 909: 908: 907: 906: 905: 904: 903: 902: 817: 816: 815: 814: 813: 812: 811: 810: 809: 808: 807: 806: 805: 804: 803: 802: 628:New York Times 616: 613: 612: 611: 574: 555: 551: 550: 527: 516: 513: 512: 511: 510: 509: 489:Kanzleideutsch 442: 439: 438: 437: 436: 435: 434: 433: 392: 337: 313: 312: 311: 310: 309: 308: 307: 306: 305: 304: 303: 302: 301: 300: 299: 298: 297: 296: 295: 294: 265: 94: 91: 88: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3577: 3566: 3562: 3558: 3554: 3553: 3552: 3550: 3546: 3542: 3541:89.116.40.193 3538: 3531: 3527: 3519: 3515: 3511: 3507: 3504: 3500: 3498: 3494: 3493: 3488: 3484: 3480: 3477: 3473: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3467: 3463: 3459: 3456: 3452: 3450: 3446: 3442: 3438: 3434: 3433: 3428: 3425: 3424: 3423: 3422: 3418: 3414: 3412: 3408: 3404: 3401: 3398: 3397: 3396: 3395: 3391: 3387: 3380: 3376: 3372: 3369: 3365: 3364: 3359: 3355: 3351: 3348: 3344: 3342: 3339:(in French): 3338: 3337:Le 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2813: 2809: 2805: 2801: 2800: 2799: 2795: 2791: 2787: 2786: 2785: 2781: 2777: 2773: 2772: 2771: 2770: 2766: 2762: 2758: 2754: 2750: 2746: 2742: 2738: 2734: 2730: 2726: 2722: 2718: 2711: 2710: 2705: 2698: 2695:but excludes 2694: 2690: 2686: 2682: 2678: 2674: 2670: 2666: 2662: 2658: 2654: 2650: 2646: 2640: 2636: 2631: 2629: 2624: 2618: 2613: 2609: 2602: 2597: 2593: 2589: 2585: 2581: 2580: 2579: 2575: 2571: 2567: 2566: 2565: 2561: 2557: 2553: 2550: 2548: 2544: 2540: 2536: 2534: 2530: 2526: 2522: 2518: 2516: 2512: 2508: 2504: 2500: 2497: 2496: 2495: 2491: 2487: 2483: 2479: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2469: 2465: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2455: 2451: 2448: 2443: 2439: 2435: 2429: 2428:edit conflict 2424: 2423: 2420: 2416: 2412: 2408: 2407: 2406: 2405: 2401: 2397: 2390: 2386: 2383: 2382: 2378: 2375: 2369: 2365: 2361: 2357: 2356: 2355: 2351: 2347: 2343: 2342: 2341: 2340: 2336: 2332: 2328: 2315: 2311: 2307: 2302: 2301: 2300: 2296: 2292: 2288: 2287: 2286: 2282: 2278: 2274: 2270: 2268: 2262: 2261: 2260: 2259: 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