Talk:Juan Pablo Montoya/Archive 1

1124:, I think the template used for tagging the article in fact implies a different situation for what we have here, so the template is not apropiate, however is not a matter of adding to every single line the "citation needed" thing... one thing is to write an article when the sources (people, your own knowledge, and yes media) are available then if the citations were not introduced when created then a Massive effort would be needed later to add them. The article is not thought to be recommended as featured article and it is unlikely to find every source that validates an article as complete and acurate as it is right now, just look at the effort that implied the revamping of Michael Schumacher article and that's not even a featured article but it's about someone who truly is one of the most representative figures of the sport. So the message is, the article before nascar is quite good, the nascar section is being too blog like, montoya didn't win any championship and thus the effort requiered to validate the entire article is likely to be not found... plus 80% of wikipedia articles are lacking of citations but it is the effort of the members that make the articles readable and accurate, so unless you agree to tag the 80% of the wikipedia articles as well, I think the tag should be removed, instead if you have the sources handy then you can add them... but you know most of the times I'm lazy enough to not to use my account so for adding citations for what has been said is likely a task that I would avoid. 858:

mixture of strong and exotic materials... the torsional forces are high so are the materials and technology to build them so it is very rare to have a broken one... from the engine to the tyres everything is connected... so what happens to a gear ratio has implications to the differential, what happens to the suspension, for some very strange reason seemed to have consequences in the driveshaft... that was the comment (not supported) that weekend (and the weekend of Kimi's DNF in imola)... the other not supported comment was that of JPM doing a lot of stuff in a simulator McLaren have, in which he seemed to find some new areas of improvements specially related with suspension geometry... So the same way people talked about Alonso going to McLaren was the way comments of this calibre were surrounding.... Note:that link to "multi-link suspension" is likely wrong (or innacurate)... speculation states that those guys use a combination of double wish bone and multi-link... who knows?...

561:

the F1 community... proof?.. the word on the street... who are they ? all the fans, all the commentators... How to realise that?... If you were paying attention to the motorsport scene at that moment you knew it... exagerated articles as those you are quoting cannot be used as a proof of something...saying Montoya was anticipated as the new Senna just because some reporter said so is likely a mistake.... 4u1e, you have the reason about the section being written in a too "generic" form, but first neutrality then form.... So the little paragraph can be worked around with different words but keeping the neutrality... as you say head is not source of neutrality in this case... and Rahal was not involved directly with F1... as I told you, it was the fans who were anticipating him and the media and a couple of team bosses.... regards,

731:.... Have you ever driven a go-kart at least?... if no, then go for it and you will see that in order to be fast you must learn how to correct the rear-end with your opposite-lock, left foot braking technique... needless to say, steering an open wheel car has effects in both the front-end and the rear-end, despite just the front wheels receiving the steer input.... ah, remember F1 cars are rear wheel drive. ... What Montoya was trying to point out is the fact he was not receiving feedback from the rear-side of the car, and when the car was oversteering it was too late to correct it, at the same time the impact of the steering inputs over the rear-end was not perceived by the driver 432:

and not just any others but significant people in the community. I did not use wording that 'added and quoted these views as real or matter of fact', I said that the journalist "reported widespread anticipation in the racing community of his debut in the series, including comparisons with Ayrton Senna". This has now been removed, which I feel was a mistake, and replaced with an uncited and generic comment. I'll think about this and come back to it later, but I think it'll have to go back in - I can live without the Senna reference, if it makes people uncomfortable for some reason (although that is what some people were apparently saying). Feel free to comment in the meantime. Cheers.

619:, I think we're improving this article quite nicely. We seem to be circling around the 'Montoya was the only one able to challenge Schumacher' comment in the 2002 season section. Your latest version has added 'wheel to wheel'. I take it what we're getting at here is that none of the others actually diced successfully with Schumi senior on the track, but beat him in pit stops etc. For the statement to stand it would have to be true that that no-one did so at any race all throughout the year. My recollection is that Barrichello had Schumi well beaten at the 572:'s chief Formula One correspondant and commentator on radio for quite a few years. Pretty fair as an expert source and sufficiently neutral - particularly as in the first version I didn't quote his report as fact, but reported what he had written as a view. I don't believe it is sufficient (ultimately) to say 'if you were there you knew' - it's actually quite a contentious statement (to a non-expert reader) which should be quite easily supported with contemporary news reports. Verifiability is the thing! 1379:

super fan cares to write about him. I'm not a racing fan, and I merely checked this page out to find some info and it has severely damaged my previously high regards for wikipedia. Especially since I saw on this page that this issue was raised 2006!!! Just to give an example, as I said, I'm not a particular racing fan, but I do follow sports, and I'm very well aware that Montoya is not called the "best overtaker in the history of the sport" as the article claims. Jesus christ!

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employers, the fact that he was enthusiastic about him isn't particularly interesting. Rahal's quoted view is interesting, he is/was neutral, and no he wasn't in F1 at the time, but that has no bearing on the relevancy of his view. For what it's worth he has a European driving background as well as a US one and has a broad view of the sport. Anyway, I'll look up some more contemporary news stories next week - I'll have access to better resources then. Cheers.

1574:

do it, if The Bushranger haven't suspenred my for some time. So please, I know that everyone want to see all the wins that Montoya have hate through out his hall carrer, and it will only happen if he lead my the wunning table.Ohh, yeah The Bushranger say that it is not important the winning table or winning list. If it not useful then why almost (because I don't want to say all) the race car drivers have it? Sincelity a true wikipeople voice

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it may sound OK for US residents, referring to an US citizen as an "American" is like saying "Europeans" while talking about Spaniards only. And since Colombia is an American country (it is located in South-America, which is part of America) i think the correct term should be something like "non-US driver" or "non-local driver". This also applies to the Canadian driver the same sentence mentions.

246:. It's all very convoluted :) Suffice to say, they are one, the same and interchangeable. It would be incorrect technnically to say he won the "Champ Car World Series Championship" because that's the modern name - but to say he's the "Champ Car" champion is workable enough. I did not know that "Formula CART" was used in Latin America to refer to the series. I've created a redirect for that name to 1237:"Although this newly revamped design had proven successful, Williams often made mistakes, failing to find a correct setup and Montoya gained a poor reputation for setting up a Formula One car. In addition, Ralf Schumacher had a better relationship with the team, especially with the sporting director, which resulted in several in-race advantages for the German." 361:"pre-Montoya" F1 boring because the boriest F1 has been from the year 2001 ownwards (exexption made of 2003) and furthermore Montoya is Not the centre of F1 as Schumacher is. It is clearly stated... He has failed to take it by storm.... furthermore JPM did entered the F1 with such a hype that he has failed to live to that reputation 1777:"known internationally for being one of the few drivers to have participated in NASCAR, Formula One, CART and IRL" that's really what he's 'internationally' known for? pretty sure his international fame is mostly down to the F1, NASCAR, CART/IRL being not very popular or watched outside of the US and/or North America. 672:"Although he did not win a race, unlike Coulthard and his team mate Ralf Schumacher, Montoya was one of the few drivers to compete with Schumacher on the track. As in 2001, he stood out for his forceful overtaking moves on the World Champion, although several times he lost places through clashing with the German." 1275:

In the Nascar section, when talking about his victory at Sonoma, there is a quote saying that he is the "first non-American driver to win since Canadian driver....". I dont think this is accurate.A non-American person is the one whos nationality or citizenship is from a country outside America. While

857:

A driveshaft in an F1, for what it is showed to us, is very different to a "common" driveshaft ... this thing is very thick and very short and the diameter is big... so it looks like a cilinder instead of a shaft... the engine suppousedly gives its torque through the driveshaft, which is built with a

579:

may have been murdered by the British Secret Service'. It may be a ludicrous statement, but lots of people believe/d it, and I can support that statement by referencing many UK newspapers. I would agree that one ref from one reporter is not sufficient here to support 'wide anticipation', though. As I

329:

Ralf Schumacher was allowed to pit first during the 2003 French GP while Montoya was leading. Both had chances for the WDC. Ralf had worked hard that weekend and resulted in a very competitive setup for the car, Montoya and his engineer simply copied the setup then Sam Michael (the sporting director)

1573:

why it is important to have the winning table of Juan Pablo Montoya? Because I have read the hall discution page, and there's sections where almost all of you say that it is important that the page have true info about Montoya and all the achivement that he have hate through out the the year. I will

1042:

1. The article was started from scratch and then rebuilt and then it's been improved in prose and tone. It is a joint effort from some wikipedians. Claiming the article resembles another is widely disrespectful and if you are talking about the downloadable pdf on montoya's site you need to know that

869:

taking a review to my words, it is a compilation of a lot of speculative comments, but sometimes there is the only type of info we have in F1. We have no proofs of Bennetton cheating in 94, still we say they had active suspension, TC, LC and so on... So it's hard to decide how to say something about

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C trillos - that's fine, but it does need a reference, sheer results over the years don't really bear it out. Suggest wording would then be: "Montoya was voted top Latin American driver of 2005 by FOX sports awards" (I don't know whether this is a vote, or a panel of experts - amend as appropriate!)

741:

Yes, I've driven a go-kart, and a Formula Renault, which was fun! (I've also had a bit of formal education in road vehicle dynamics ;-)). You're absolutely right about how the cars are steered, but the steering wheel is still not connected to the rear of the car - it's a very odd way of putting it -

718:

I doubt he really expected that the steering wheel would be attached to the rear of the car, four wheel steer has been banned for a few years now. Trouble is, this is obviously a garbled version of an original quote, but I can't correct it without knowing what the man himself said. Anyone know where

431:

Now, I did add a reference earlier today to a BBC news piece from before Montoya started in F1 (see the 11:20 28 April revision), which summarised a large number of postive views by figures in the racing community. This is not POV - it's a professional journalist reporting views expressed by others,

302:

Also there are a lot of remarks in the article which sound as if the author blamed only the car of JPM all the time whenever he failed. It's too POV. Eg. "Williams, however, was unable to keep the pace with the newest improvements from Ferrari" (in 2003). Well, it's POV too, because I know a lot of

1432:

I fixed the part when it said that Montoya's victory in the US 500 was Toyota's fist CART victory, wich actually was in the Milwaukee Mile. Even as a Colombian fan of Montoya I indeed feel that this article needs a way more objetive redaction and more references, and of course not historical errors

560:

I think you are getting stuck with a statement-proof thing... Not all the statements have to be quotes from someone else so they can be proved... and in the other hand not all the quotes or articles about a given person are necessarily neutral. To be more specific, Montoya was indeed anticipated by

360:

They were quite popular for the people who were watching, fewer than in 1997 let's say, (formula 1 TV broadcastings went onto be very expensive) (we are talking about 2000) I can only recall 1 or 2 wheel-to-wheel action between MH and MS. one of them at Spa in 2000. that was all. I can not call the

1378:

I'm not gonna go into details and I certainly won't change anything in the article, but the Montoya section is a joke. Knowledge can hardly pride themselves as a dictionary with this kind of nonsense. For you own sake, I recommend you immediately remove the entire article until someone who isn't a

1328:

Its only Official in the United States, in the rest of the world American refers to the people of the whole continent, thats why the correction is needed. This in not a Demonyms article, but the discusion refers to the Demonyms and birthplace of Montoya so it is in the right place. BTW American is

1080:

This article was surely made with information read or seen in a media outlet, which is the real intention of the message. Asking to cite sources and add references doesn't mean accusing of plagiarism (nor the message says literally that is plagiarism), but one of the "rules" of wikipedia is to add

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anticipation, not that it was well-founded or reasonable anticipation (looking at things now, it probably wasn't!). I agree that more than just that one article would be needed. Head, as I have said, is not neutral. It doesn't actually matter that he wasn't neutral as such, but as one of Montoya's

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While I agree with recent attempts to make this para more neutral, the second sentence of the current version ('There was great expectation as this move was considered a natural step in the career of the Colombian driver.') doesn't really say anything. Could someone dig out media articles from the

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A huge amount of this article is so biased towards him that it could almost be written by Montoya himself. Whilst the facts he is an extremely good racing driver, a lot of the language goes too far in blaming others for mistakes; like everyone, he has faults himself. Reading the article, it sounds

659:

Added to that, the sentence implies, although it doesn't say it explicitly, that Montoya was the only driver who raced and beat Schumacher. This is certainly not true, as in addition to the two races above, Barrichello had him well beaten in Austria before being told to move over on the last lap,

948:

Well, his official spanish language website uses 'Juan Pablo' - I wouldn't be surprised to find that the hyphen tends to get put in by native English speakers like me who aren't used to the concept of using more than one name. I suppose the website's not entirely conclusive, though, anyone got a

623:

that year - he may not have diced with him on the track, but as Rubens outqualified and outraced the German, it seems a rather academic distinction. I'll look at the races that year in more detail but I'm still rather doubtful that the comment can really be supported, especially given that three

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Ralf Schumacher was allowed to pit first during the 2003 French GP while Montoya was leading. Both had chances for the WDC. Ralf had worked hard that weekend and resulted in a very competitive setup for the car, Montoya and his engineer copied that setup, then Sam Michael (the sporting director)

1255:

While the changes I made were backed with reasons, user Blnguyen has reverted those changes without bothering to assign reasons. I find this completely unacceptable. The lines are biased and unsubstantiated and I'm taking them down again. Mr Blnguyen is encouraged to use the discussion page to

757:

mmmhh, I heard those words from montoya himself during an interview with his wife... I agree, the words are kind of difficult to understand... I was trying the other day to find a source where to quote from safely but I had no success... I think if no suitable source is found the comment can be

1158:

I agree that it's hardly Oscar Wilde at his best. The point is, or should be, that the F1 community sees Montoya going to NASCAR as a real step down for him: almost an admission of failure, an admission that he will never win the world championship. By that view he's abandoned the 'purism' and

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I'm going to delete the "FedEX" from the name of CART Championship Series as this is a brand used for publicity and is nothing to do with the nature of the series... for the CCWS is the same you don't call it: Bridgestone presents the Champcar... etc, etc... you just call it either Champcar or

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wanted to favour Ralf on the race for his hard work. At the end Ralf won with Montoya second simply for that pit decition because as you know Ralf and Montoya were evenly matched in terms of speed. After that GP Montoya signed for McLaren, situation that was confirmed at the end of the year.

1147:

I fail to see the point. Both Schumacher's original statement and Montoya's retort lack the punch to make good trivia and real relevance to make it into the article, imho. If anyone thinks it really belongs there, feel free to reinsert it but please state why you believe it should be in.

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like this Toyota one. I agree with some commentaries above, the article must provide the facts of Montoya's carrer and it must be the reader who judges Montoya's relevance and talent based in his performance and not by adjetives (wich for me is true for any other biographical article).

863:

So to conclude, it seemed the McLarens had differencies in the suspension but many things Montoya found were used on Kimi's car who prefers a lot of oversteer. a very rare failure was not about to happen twice in a top team like McLaren if it wasn't for a difference in suspension and

583:

My original point was that there was loads of press coverage (and therefore useful references) at the time of the excitement over Montoya arriving in F1. I'm not hung up on proving that Montoya was 'the next Senna' or 'the best driver in world motorsport' but rather that people were

778:

I agree - I remember hearing something similar too, it just seems a weird way to put it. I may turn something up when I eventually get to search through the newspaper archives again.....(I may even find that it actually is what he said. In which case I promise to stop complaining!)

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Proof? As far as I remember the Hakkinen-Schumacher battles between 1998 and 2000 were quite popular. I wouldn't be surprised if they had higher viewing figures than what F1 nowadays has (despite of Montoya being in F1). Anyway, calling the pre-Montoya F1 "boring" is a POV, too.

1355:

I removed the word actual from the sentence "Montoya finished 14th in the actual Daytona 500." I felt it belittled the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona race that was being described just before that. Likely the author of that sentence has a bias towards NASCAR over other race series.

664:

the only driver to make several forceful overtaking manoeuvres on Schumacher during the year (as he had in 2001), although it has to be said that they did not often have a good outcome for the Colombian - in Brazil for example he definitely lost out through over-aggressive

1075:

you are probably misinterpreting the intended message of the template. "This article or section needs additional references or sources to improve its verifiability. It may be using the words or ideas of other publications in its text, without citing the source(s) of the

316:

Anyway, it's debatable at least, so I suggest to leave such remarks out of the article. And this was just one example, the article is full of "let's just always blame the car/team, never the driver" kind of remarks. I think it needs to be written more neutral.

607:

Is there any good reason for the 2005 season section to be as long as it is? All the previous stuff summarises the season. For 2005 we get a detailed blow by blow account. I suggest that it should be edited down closer to the length of the 1999 - 2004 seasons.

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although since Rubens was faster in both qualifying and the race he did not 'compete wheel to wheel'. The Brazilian beat Schumi again at Hungary and Monza, although less convincingly. I think what the 'wheel to wheel' comment boils down to is that Montoya

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I'm not saying my version is perfect, it could for example say what those interviewed by Legard anticipated, but the current version is a bald statement - who anticipated it, and is it verifiable? Looking at the examples of good practice given on the

742:

so I would be surprised if that's what he actually said. I think my point stands that the words may well not be what he actually said - it would be nice to have the actual quote, which would remove the need to discuss the issue. Cheers

1240:

Is the claim that Williams made the mistakes documented and provable? The same questions arise about the lines about Ralf's relationship with his team and the subsequent advantages that he supposedly got. I'm taking these lines down.

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LOL! I'm not an antifan at all. But Wiki must be neutral. If you have factual proof of Montoya being deliberately disadvantaged by Williams compared to Ralf Schumacher then come up with it (and no, "Montoya told so" isn't a proof!).

307:

Keep it in context!!! we are talking after the 2003 German GP!!. which means the Italian GP. Ferrari worked hard and came with lots of new parts and improvements while Williams weren't able to further develop their car that season.

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thought that ;-)). I realise that oval racing is much more than driving round in circles, and that NASCAR is top dog in the US in motorsport terms: That's the tension that could ideally be brought out by a quote like this.

352:"The adaptation process took place in the winter testing season and he entered the world championship with great expectation as the boring on-pit battles between Mclaren Mercedes and Ferrari had made viewing figures drop." 956:

Juan Manuel Fangio, Diego Armando Maradona.... you can see the complete name is by using the two names... those dashes are not used... now for legal pourposes in latin america a person must give his/her two names and two

1046:

2. The missing sources is certainly a point to have in mind but it is genuinely an effort to make it as complete and neutral as possible, not every line needs to be quoted as the article on Michael Schumacher let's say.

1016:

I think this article could do with some clarification of the structure of NASCAR (in particular the relationship between the Busch series and the Nextel Cup) from someone more familiar with the topic than me. I think

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cutting edge technology of the global F1 championship for driving overweight steel-framed bumper cars in circles around the southern US (Before anyone lays into me: a) I'm exaggerating for effect and b) I didn't say

1179:

The tables are far too wide. This makes for an unsightly display and the appearance of the bottom scroll bar. There's no need to include the chassis model numbers and engine names in the tables for goodness sake!

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I'd like a couple more refs to go with that though - for example, Patrick Head isn't really a neutral source, so I'd like a view from someone else. I'll try and dig some out. As ever, discussion is welcome.

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these. If you have any issues with the template I recommend you create an account/sign in and discuss that issue with the cretors/editors of that template not here since it has nothing to do with JPM. --

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In January 2007, after Michael Schumacher publicly questioned the excitement of NASCAR racing on ovals, Montoya retorted that "People don't understand what a big challenge this style of racing is"

575:

It is precisely correct that to say that 'Montoya was anticipated as the next Senna just because some reporter said so' - in the same way that it is correct to say 'It is wide reported that

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The Official Demonym for people born in the United States of America is American, whilst people born in Colombia are called Colombians. Discuss things where they belong, in this case the

1234:

Knowledge is not a blog and hence, biased statements that reveal the author's fascination/ unmasked admiration for Montoya are out of place on Knowledge. I give a sample to prove this:

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in 1996. The series was the "CART FedEx Championship Series" from 1997 to 2003 - "Champ Car" derives from that "Championship Series" because CART considered itself the true heir to the

1803:

Is the Long Beach GP really one of the most prestigious races in world history? To compare it with the British, Italian and Monégasque GPs as a list of prestigious events is bizarre!

1600:

Please discuss this on your talk page, instead of elsewhere, as otherwise it's block evasion. And most NASCAR drivers don't have wins tables. Anyway, replied on your talk page. -

227:

Formula CART was a common name used all over latin america to refer to that series... I was wrong it is not the official name... but JPM didn't won the Champcar.... but CART...

652:

At the Nurburgring, Barrichello overtook Montoya and both the Schumachers on the first lap and went on to win. Commentators seem unanimous that Rubens was just faster that day.

1403:

The section has been removed, You can do it too! that's what wiki is all about when you see something does not belong to article or that it can be improved you can go for it

325:"As an addition, Ralf Schumacher had a better relationship within the team specially with the sporting director which resulted in several in-race advantages for the German. " 140:

According to ITV he lives in Monaco but has houses in Florida and back home in Columbia. His wife was working in Florida untill her pregnancy and probably will do again soon.

381:"Montoya was on track for a possible win at Magny-Cours when his suspension failed." Is this really accurate? From what I remember he was slower than Kimi all afternoon. -- 580:

say, I'm not fussed about keeping the Senna reference - it's too emotionally loaded anyway - but I am quite sure that the statements here can and should be referenced.

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Hey 24.107.146.226, whoever you are - JPM's website says he resides in Monaco. I have no source for Florida but I'm leaving it there anyway. Please verify.

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understand it, but have some concerns that a reader new to the topic would be confused by Montoya racing in two similar series in the same season. Cheers.

177:, I was wondering if anyone knows whether JPM has any African, native American or otherwise non-European ancestry? He doesn't look purely Spanish to me.-- 213:

Ok... After having revamped the article I still had some spelling problems (even after having changed the article like 10 times from 200.75.70.196), ...

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wanted to favour Ralf on the race for his hard work. At the end Ralf won with Montoya second. Ralf and Montoya were evenly matched in terms of speed.

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of the University of Utah shocked the world by reporting they had discovered a means to tap energy from nuclear fusion at near to room temperatures."

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CCWS... as you know this change can be reverted just observe there is a point with some spelling corrected if you are willing to do so... C_trillos.

1511:

The repeated reinsertion of win tables isn't necessary. They're nice work, but do not add to the value of the article and can be taken to violate

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A driveshaft breakage is therefore likely to be due to caused by changed geometry (Agree - although it could also be caused by a faulty component)

922:? This would likely be correct, but I still don't see why Montoya's suspension failure 'proves' that the two drivers had different set-ups. :-S 1852: 1842: 984: 1616:

Cut him some slack please, it's fairly obvious that he doesn't speak English. The nuances of block procedures are almost certainly beyond him.

1329:

not an accepted Demonym if thats what you imply, in several other languages the distinction between American and US American is very clear.

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is running in a motor race, it is possible for them to win; Jacques Villeneuve won the 1995 Indianapolis 500 after being penalized two whole

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cannot be supported as it stands. There were at least two occasions where Schumacher was beaten on the track by someone other than Montoya:

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what's implied though! :-D Midland are 'on track to win' every GP they enter, but I can confidently promise to eat my shoes if it happens.

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when JPM took the title it was officially name CART FedEx series.... Champcar is incorrect as Champcar bought the CART in early 2000's....

1127:

The article can be kept as it is and then it can be improved step by step in a good hearted way... no need to innacurate tags, opinions?

475:

His entrance was very much anticipated by the Formula One Community due to the talent and raw speed showed in the America's based series.

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In Monaco Coulthard outqualified the German and, more importantly, then held him off on track over the last few laps of the race to win.

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car was a "Champ Car" even then, because "IndyCar" was trademarked to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway after the split between CART and

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

1336: 1283: 980: 455:'s Jonathon Legard reported widespread anticipation in the racing community of his debut in the series, including comparisons with 369:

like he should have been 5 time World Champion by now. Personally, I think the language of this article needs serious revising.

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time and craft a sentence describing what the excitement (which I do remember - I'm not questioning it) was specifically about?

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Ferrari worked hard and came with lots of new parts and improvements while Williams weren't able to further develop their car.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20121021174242/http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2010/turkey/Pages/circuit.aspx

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implies plagiarism, which, as it happens, isn't one of the problems with this article, although a lack of references is.

2067: 1947: 1201: 296:"not only the best Colombian driver of all time but in one of the most charismatic stars in the motorsports world wide" 1992: 1732: 1002: 243: 391:

There should be a wikipedia phrase for it, when something is true by default, as it cannot be disproven. As long as

1705: 38: 1866: 1039:, The recently added tag claiming for more sources and/or being a copy of other site needs to be more specific. 824: 2023:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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POV! It's just an opinion: Montoya's and his fans' opinion. It was very probably only true in Montoya's mind!

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There are many websites out there who would love those win lists, but Knowledge is not one of them though. --

1453: 1390: 1708:, but that doesn't mean it, or they, are right. IMHO it's irrelevant to the article and should be removed. - 1476: 1414: 1315: 1001:

I've replaced the rather detailed summary of the Monaco GP with a shorter version. The previous words are at

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I've added this page to WikiProject NASCAR. Please remove it if y'all feel it's too early to add the page.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070928013236/http://www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=1798&cha=5

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070928013236/http://www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=1798&cha=5

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HotMAN0199, please revert your win table additions and discuss here instead of slow-motion edit warring! -

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OK. I've had a look at the WP:NPOV page. For comparison purposes, the phrase I introduced was as follows

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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JPM resides in Monaco. He used to live in Florida when he was racing in CART until 2000. Regards, JMV

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I'm not sure what you mean. Including it in table form is exactly what this whole mess is about... -

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https://web.archive.org/web/20111004131124/http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/history/44286/

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they are the ones who are copy-catting this article (they just copy-pasted it and added photos).

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

644:"He was the sole driver to be able to challenge Michael Schumacher wheel-to-wheel on the track." 2043: 1923: 528:

His debut in Formula One was widely anticipated by the media and by motorsport figures such as

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failure earlier in the season indicate that the forces in the driveshaft are carried out in a

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well, that's a good stat but not a highlight you may well put it somewhere in the article

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I get confused by what you mean after this - are you saying that both drivers used the new

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during the season (I don't remember this one, but I'll accept it as paddock gossip for now)

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100123091000/http://www.thatsracin.com/140/story/21240.html

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other drivers did win races - including Monty's team mate. Glad to hear what you think.

2009:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 1889:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 1627: 1128: 871: 765: 759: 732: 711: 690:

The scary thing is how much work it takes just to verify and tweak one little phrase!!

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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those sorts of things at the time. All the references need do is establish that there

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people who would say that from Monaco on Williams was the best car/tyre combination.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20110724044601/http://www.thegreatest33.com/default.aspx

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between both McLaren's as the torsional forces are carried out in different manner."

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This is an antifan opinion, To be neutral You must avoid being a fan or an antifan.

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replaced by its meaning so the common reader doesn't go into a misunderstanding...

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The fact that "some articles have written the helmet description" is irrelevant;

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When he raced in CART he just went by Juan. Maybe he'll start doing that again.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

2015:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1895:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1867:

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2010/turkey/Pages/circuit.aspx

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Montoya is also the only driver to have competed in all three major events at

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article; Still, Demonyms are not discussed but established and accepted.

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Hmm - not me that made the original comment, but that template certainly

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It is rare for a driveshaft to break (I'll take that as correct for now!)

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Juan Pablo, or Juan-Pablo? Want it right for his 500-Mile Race stats. --

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The suspension geometry affects the loading on the driveshaft (Agreed)

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I would now propose that the phrase should now be along the lines of

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template doesn't centre properly in this article? It's the same on

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Don't worry - I've done it. He won it in 2003 as well, apparently.

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cause is similar with yellow for victory i vote for dark purple.

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http://www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=1798&cha=5

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http://www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=1798&cha=5

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explain why those lines should stay, if he feels they should.

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Raikonnen had a suspension failure early in the year. (Agreed)

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Sorry, I should've been clearer that I meant non-Caucasian. --

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Mercedes car unpredictable, often claiming it felt like the

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Hi. I've been through the race reports for 2002 (mostly the

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It is clearly stated Montoya has made mistakes and spins!!.

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Hey, every user out there. Can you all sent messeges to

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http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/history/44286/

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Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One#Podiums_and_Wins

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C trillos, thanks. Reading that back, the logic goes:

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if anyone wants to use them in a race summary there.

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On a related note, I thought his wife was Spanish? --

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sorry, I may have been confused by the edit history.

2019:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1899:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 839:I don't understand what is meant here - why does a 281:From the 2003 Italian Grand Prix weekend coverage: 1548:They really are not necessary in the article. -- 684:Hi, I agree with all, thanks for your work!!... 714:was not "attached" to the rear end of the car." 2005:This message was posted before February 2018. 1987:http://www.thatsracin.com/140/story/21240.html 1885:This message was posted before February 2018. 187:Well, he's Columbian, which is non-European. 8: 983:talk page. For further details, please see 670:This suggests that the phrase should read: 1647:to include the information in table form? 674:I have amended to this. Happy to discuss. 1965:I have just modified 2 external links on 1825:I have just modified 4 external links on 1374:Is this the official fan site of Montoya? 299:It's POV. Sounds as if written by a fan. 642:) and I am confident that the statement 704:The 2005 season summary includes this: 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1997:http://thegreatest33.com/default.aspx 7: 1623:, deleting those tables was correct. 1643:Just a thought- would it be OK for 719:the reference comes from? 26 April 498:are the best rock music group ever 173:In teh midst of all the hype about 84:Good call. I came here to add him. 24: 1969:. Please take a moment to review 1829:. Please take a moment to review 1427: 996: 823:"He retired from the lead of the 271:From the 2003 French GP summary: 93:Fine by me, he'll be there soon. 494:"According to most Australians, 29: 1215:, it centres properly. Thanks. 979:section, per discussion on the 1793:09:17, 13 September 2014 (UTC) 966:07:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC) 918:, but that they had different 157:17:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC) 1: 1813:13:31, 7 September 2015 (UTC) 1767:03:22, 25 November 2013 (UTC) 1690:10:34, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1676:09:15, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1657:09:14, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1636:15:33, 26 December 2011 (UTC) 1612:10:25, 26 December 2011 (UTC) 1594:08:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC) 1562:06:01, 25 December 2011 (UTC) 1544:03:19, 25 December 2011 (UTC) 1527:22:11, 11 November 2011 (UTC) 1366:14:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC) 1292:08:32, 22 November 2008 (UTC) 201:15:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC) 152:No, his wife is Colombian. -- 2073:00:08, 2 December 2017 (UTC) 1454:16:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC) 1050:So please be more specific. 997:Deleted 'Monaco race report' 975:I am planning to remove the 255:12:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC) 220:CART, Champcar, Formula CART 1487:I have raised the issue at 1266:00:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC) 1188:11:33, 10 August 2007 (UTC) 1003:talk:2006 Monaco Grand Prix 373:Let's see what can be done 244:National Championship Trail 192:00:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC) 182:23:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC) 2088: 2036:(last update: 5 June 2024) 1962:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1953:17:58, 28 April 2017 (UTC) 1916:(last update: 5 June 2024) 1822:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1725:trivia in the lead section 1428:Toyota's fist CART victory 1197:Does anybody know why the 1113:15:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC) 1097:14:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC) 1026:19:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC) 813:04:45, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 804:19:28, 28 April 2006 (UTC) 629:00:40, 21 April 2006 (UTC) 552:04:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 437:19:23, 28 April 2006 (UTC) 1773:known internationally for 1720:21:25, 9 April 2012 (UTC) 1501:02:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC) 1481:17:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC) 1461:Yellow Key for Nascar SUX 1419:01:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC) 1345:11:00, 29 June 2009 (UTC) 1320:01:17, 10 June 2009 (UTC) 1225:01:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC) 1169:09:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC) 794:Top Latin American driver 568:Hi there. 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