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raised questions as to whether in light of its large endowment
Oberlin "doth protest too much" and some even go on to suggest that Oberlin was intentionally and disingenuously exaggerating in an attempt to wring sympathy from the court. Personally, IDK, I'm not a mind reader, and it's my impression that such institutional endowments are generally set up to distribute periodic earnings to their beneficiary while significantly restricting access to the endowment's principal. So perhaps one might give them some benefit-of-doubt and consider that there may be at least a kernel-of-truth to Oberlin's claims. Perhaps in practice it's more a matter of impact on Oberlin's short term plans for expenditure in years immediately following payment of such penalties (rather than a threat to their long term viability). --
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Gibson's suit and its surrounding circumstances perhaps be more aptly placed in the "History" section's "21st century" subsection? Filing such away under "Campus culture" and "Political activism" seems to me extraordinarily reductive and at risk of giving readers an impression of intentional PR conscious evasiveness (i.e. it may seem to some to have been left out of the more prominently placed "History" section as something disquieting to the university's self image which might further suggest editing tainted by ideological alignments).
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Gibson's Bakery v. Oberlin
College matters. In such they often draw from the accounts of a regional journalist who has attended in person most all of the proceedings throughout and furthermore regularly both link to and embed full text copies of official court documents. In doing so they offer readers both many first-hand accounts and a comparatively rare readily-at-hand opportunity to follow up by judging the actual official record—and Legal Insurrection's, or anyone else's, editorial interpretation of it—for themselves.
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I had looked last week, got around to writing an article this evening, and forgot to look to see if there was now a section on this page. I just put it where I had decided it should go last week. Not adroit. Sorry. However, this meritsa subhead, particularly as the financial implications for the
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IIRC (from past reading of associated court documents), Oberlin is on record asserting that there is a danger of such large fines deleteriously affecting the quality and extent of services they offer. However, yes, 3rd-parties (probably to a large degree in sources you've blanketly disparaged) have
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Well, maybe you do find it strange, but that says more about you than about anything else. Oberlin is a 150-year old institution of genuine historical significance, that has educated tens of thousands of people and has a $ 1 billion endowment. The Gibson's lawsuit is certainly important enough to
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At present mention of the Gibson's debacle has been reduced to a brief paragraph buried under "Campus culture" in a "Gibson's Bakery v. Oberlin
College" subsection of its "Political activism" subsection. Might something involving Oberlin that has garnered as much national media attention as has the
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However, I respectfully disagree with the suggestion to cut the section down to 2-3 sentences. The unusual, large damage sum awarded by the court and the coverage in reliable sources makes this more than just a tempest-in-a-teacup about, say, pundits complaining about an overly politically correct
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While editorial content on the Legal
Insurrection site seems to me to have a clear overall socio-political slant (which they seem pretty open about, others are not all so forthcoming in my experience) the factual content seems well researched and robustly referenced. Particularly as it relates to
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The section is, at present, massively over-inflated; compare its length to the section of the 20th century history of the college. "This thing was just in the news" is not a good reason to write multiple full paragraphs in an article on a 150-year old institution, and the event has no lasting
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Should this article be updated regarding the Gibson lawsuit? The trial hasn't received a lot of media attention for reasons that aren't clear - even alumni are generally unaware of it, but the college's efforts in supporting student efforts to libel and destroy a local business may meet the
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Someone added this yesterday with a couple of marginally acceptable references (NY Post and
Washington Times). They added it to the lede but I moved it down to the History section. If someone wants to edit what's there, particularly to change to better sources, that would be great.
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One of
Oberlin's failed arguments during the lawsuit was that they should not have to pay damages because their endowment could not handle it. That would make your claim that the size of insitution's endowment renders the matter of "minor and impermanent significance" specious at
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statement by some student. And on the other hand, the article is full of minutiae that seem much less relevant for the regular reader - about amateur music societies, building sustainability grades from 12 years ago, the football team's losing streak in the 1990s etc.
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This is a breaking story and should be kept up to date. Certainly a mass email to alumni from the
Oberlin general counsel is part of the story, especially if the general counsel appears to criticize the jury just as they enter deliberations on punitive damages.
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This event should be trimmed down to 2-3 sentences and merged back into the parent subsection. The lawsuit, decision, and damages seem to merit more attention than details about the precipitating event. The current 3-4 paragraph treatment is inappropriate under
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1232:, not just those published in newspapers in a 2-week period. Are you really going to make me run an RFC before this cuts down to an appropriate size? (I would be happy to but it is such an obvious waste of time because the question here is
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Following a good piece of advice from ElKevbo, I will forbear on the RfC to allow people actively working on the article the opportunity to get the massive policy violations under control, and revisit it later, if necessary.
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I just made various edits for NPOV (e.g. the plaintiff's description of the incidents should be attributed to them, and the college's counterarguments summarized) and second the concerns about sourcing right-wing blogs (see
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I find it strange to characterize a legal judgement counted in the tens of millions of dollars and the resultant ongoing appellate battle as of "no lasting consequence". And as to "right-wing media freakouts", perhaps some
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December 2017 edition of The Grape, Oberlin's student magazine states that business owners in Oberlin have to confront shoplifting and shoplifters on a regular basis, with the majority of shoplifting carried out by
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The discussion is well placed; right-wing media freakouts with no lasting consequences are not of historical significance. Also your should probably turn your "tainted by ideological alignments" glasses inwards.
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Agree that this merits a subhead, perhaps even a separate section since political activism is not exactly the right place for it. But the bulk of the material should go to the fork (unless that doesn't survive).
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Definitely not "massively" over-weighted. Both the initial protests and now the lawsuit have been prolific in national news. Very few things about
Oberlin have reached that level of national attention. --
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and in the pattern of their edits within the article itself I'd like to respectfully suggest they engage in some self inquiry as to whether their own socio-political biases (and/or sense of
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Gibson’s Bakery and Why I Quit
Teaching at Oberlin, The Ohio Supreme Court upholds a $ 36 million legal judgment against the college., By Abraham Socher, Wall Street Journal, Sept. 1, 2022
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The links on the phrase "albino squirrel" don't provide much useful information, since the majority of squirrels that people call albino are technically not albino, but "leucistic". See
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The blog legalinsurrection.com is clearly inappropriate as a source; any references to it (and any information that cannot be sourced elsewhere) should be removed asap.
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which leaves out the key information that is relevant to the story. So yes, perhaps if you aren't satisfied, then create an RFC which proposes the two versions. --
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Since there is now a separate article on this topic, as well as a separate section on the page, I've reduced the content included in the "21st Century" history. --
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This case has actually been covered relatively extensively by local, state, and even some national media outlets. Here are a few good citations that I found:
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produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications
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is notable and can be cited. (Assertions are fun!) This is a run-of-the-mill political blog, it is not usable for anything except the author's opinion. --
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I could not find a suitable link to the email. If someone can find a suitable link a simple summary and link would be better.
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I see the Court has ordered the College to pay over eleven million dollars. I am having a hard time finding good cites.--
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The current text is definitely on the side of "excess" and there is already some creep happening (what, for example, is
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more weight. The subject of this bakery protests/lawsuit is covered at what I see as a reasonable level prior to your
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Court Won't Hear Appeal in Oberlin College $ 25M Judgment, By Associated Press, Aug. 30, 2022
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upon phrasing might be warranted on your end as well, eh? --
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1804:§ Gibson's Bakery Lawsuit
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1176:— Preceding
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59:This is the
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1770:rates LI's
1721:E.M.Gregory
1678:E.M.Gregory
1447:regentspark
1427:regentspark
1412:E.M.Gregory
1390:E.M.Gregory
1347:regentspark
1314:Madcoverboy
453:Ohio portal
188:free images
71:not a forum
43:its history
1868:Categories
1695:Alex Jones
1499:reflection
1310:WP:NOTNEWS
1272:WP:NOTNEWS
1100:WP:NOTNEWS
935:Report bug
522:discussion
32:page were
1785:Netoholic
1742:and with
1371:Regards,
1260:Netoholic
1214:Netoholic
955:Barkeep49
918:this tool
911:this tool
128:if needed
111:Be polite
61:talk page
1838:AnonMoos
1800:User:JBL
1756:reliable
1343:students
1306:WP:UNDUE
1178:unsigned
1134:Angloguy
1089:contribs
1081:Angloguy
1077:unsigned
1067:Angloguy
951:this AfD
924:Cheers.—
518:colleges
239:365Â days
226:Archives
96:get help
69:This is
67:article.
1836:... --
1584:Malaiya
1452:comment
1432:comment
1364:below).
1352:comment
1276:ElKevbo
1274:issue.
1150:ElKevbo
1104:ElKevbo
1040:ElKevbo
788:my edit
754:on the
649:on the
424:on the
282:B-class
194:WPÂ refs
182:scholar
1760:WP:SPS
1634:WP:RSN
1252:WP:DUE
1236:.) --
516:, and
390:Alerts
288:scale.
166:Google
34:merged
1783:. --
1546:best.
209:JSTOR
170:books
124:Seek
36:into
1856:talk
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641:High
316:Ohio
202:FENS
176:news
113:and
1762:as
1699:JBL
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1174:.
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