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1469:, nor did you wait the bare minimum (a week, but realistically, much more - I would wait however long it takes for at least 2-3 more folks to notice the discussion) for a consensus to emerge. Therefore I ask you to follow the merge guidelines and at least restore the templates that you improperly removed (no, I am not "demanding" that, but keep in mind that violating Knowledge (XXG) policies can have negative consequences eventually). PS. To put it simply: you did not follow the proper merge close procedures, so please self-revert yourself.
1227:(available in book and audiobook form) which unlike many other books and documentaries takes a strictly academic perspective. I only have it in audiobook form, making citing it a bit difficult, but for those that want to put in the work it stands far above all I've yet found and well worth the time of any serious historian. A quick glance at his wiki should be enough to prove his qualifications. Full title and ISDN: Hitler's Monsters: A Supernatural History of the Third Reich. Yale University Press, New Haven, 2017. ISBNÂ 9780300189452 -
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interested in discrediting the idea that Hitler was a sorcerer with real magical powers or something, which is kind of silly given that its rather obvious that he didn't have magical powers. I mean, sure, Hitler didn't actually commune with the dark forces and the Nazi party wasn't secretly run by shadowy mystical cults but he and many other Nazis still believed in various occult ideas to varying degrees but this article doesn't mention any of that.
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articles before deciding they cover the "same topic". The topics are clearly different, and while it is your right to add the tags again to force a discussion, it isn't within your rights to demand that I do so. Merge discussions are rarely allowed to go more than a month, and there is no rule against removing a misguided merge proposal by an editor who happens to know that the articles are intentionally separate due to a consensus not to
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You broke it - you should fix it. This is really simple netiquette (or wikiquette), and all I am asking is that you follow it. And sure, I will spend my time, again, restoring content you removed in violation of the merge guidelines, and I am glad you say are ok with that; I am just asking you not to
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This is very different than the
Esoteric Nazism described by the article, which didn't become relevant until after the war, and is largely based on a cult of personality and deification surrounding Hitler. For example, two of Esoteric Nazism's chief ideologues, Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano, Devi
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The articles are split so that people can differentiate between the influence pagan tradition, occultism and esoterica had on "orthodox" WW2 Nazism, which is largely speculative, and was a fringe movement, mainly propagated by
Heinrich Himmler and his SS. This wasn't explicitly done out of genuine
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must make the edit that you want to make: well, that's an attitude that I simply don't understand; adding a threat makes it impossible for me to comply. I'm putting up no opposition here, so if you continue to make this a talk page battle rather than just restore the tags yourself, I won't respond
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While I appreciate your explanation, I don't think you should remove the merge proposal - I may well agree with you, but a discussion like this should be left visible for several month to ensure there is consensus not to merge. I'd kindly ask you to restore the merge notice and revisit this in few
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Also, just as weird is even Puzzle and
Dragons Z. It involves the polytheism from racial discriminators, even humanists, but also promasonic elements such as nondogmatic and nonenigmatic (you are beating Enigma and Dogma into absolute oblivion without actual included replayability). Even a Crowley
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I am shocked that there is NO mention in this article of the Thule
Society, which mutated into the Nazi Party. The fact that this organization, along with Dietrich Eckhart (the man who mentored Hitler and gave him his education in politics, without which his rise to power would never have been
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You are welcome to restore them, but I am not going to restore them myself, because I don't believe the articles should be merged. Before a merge discussion is placed, an editor should check the archives for split discussions, which you failed to do. They should also read the entirety of both
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This article is mainly about the historiography of Nazi occultism but doesn't actually discuss it. It hardly provides any actual details on things like
Wewelsburg, the Anenherbe, the influence of folkisch mysticism on Nazi ideology, the Thule Society etc. Rather the article seems to be more
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Yes, the sources do the same thing: material about occultism and historical Nazism is much more sparse and speculative - it was an aspect of Nazism for some Nazis, but not something generally believed or promoted as a religion; Esoteric Neo-Nazism on the other hand is a distinct
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and focuses specifically on modern esotericist interpretations of Nazi ideology. This page does need some serious work - the focus is misdirected IMO and makes it really unclear whether we're talking about conspiracy theories alleging secret control of the Nazi party or about
1350:
I don't see how the topics are substantially different. I'd suggest merging the
Esoteric Nazism here (18 vs 9 interwikis), and also renaming this article (the term "Occultism in Nazism" does not exist in GS, "Esoteric Nazism" does and could be retained after merge but
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I checked that discussion and it represents a consensus of only two editors, with no indication there was any notification of proposed split in article itself. I stand by my believe that by removing the merge notice you are not following best practices; per
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crossover between occultist belief systems and Nazism in Nazi
Germany. I would argue that we should focus on the latter. I made some attempts at cleaning up the first section, but there's a lot more to be done, and the lead should be rewritten entirely.
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belief in paganism however, and the most likely explanation is that
Himmler thought Christianity was inherently bad because of its roots in the Jewish people and faith, and promoted paganism because it was, in his mind, purely Germanic.
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behavior. I've said go ahead and put them back if you like and that I won't remove them again. If you think someone is going to give me "negative consequences" when I've said that you should just go ahead, but instead you insist that
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Basically, one covers the influences esotericism had on the original Nazi regime, while this article covers what is essentially a New
Religious Movement based around Hitler, Nazism, Pagan religions, and racial purity.
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and is covered as such in sources, though
Goodrick-Clarke confuses the issue by calling the NRM "Esoteric Nazism" rather than "Esoteric Neo-Nazism", it is specifically covered as a post-war phenomenon.
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being "demanding" when you won't simply do yourself what I've suggested you do. Adding a threat about "negative consequences" into what has been a civil discussion, seems to me to cross the line into
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1581:(another policy I recommend checking) and accusing others (here, me) of threats, "dominance games", or such. PS. On the subject of best practices, I'd suggest (suggest, not demand...) that you
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possible) are never even mentioned greatly detracts from this article's credibility and usefulness. This is an embarrassing omission that should be corrected ASAP. Thanks! :-)
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I do think splitting by time period makes sense, as wartime Nazism and Neo-Nazism are often discussed distinctly, though do the sources do the same thing?
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Dear anon. Thank you for the very clear explanation. If possible, could you back it up with reliable sources and add it to the lead of both articles?
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The article actually has two mentions of the Thule society and an external link, so I'm not sure what your complaint is about. -
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believed Hitler was "an avatar of Vishnu" and Serrano believed Hitler was an incarnated god made flesh to save the Aryan race.
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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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might be better (not sure if occult should be capitalized?). Such a title would be more clear, and it is the same as of
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Since when are masons, being mostly known as a holocaust victim group, now weirdly also involved in the third reich?!
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that I get to ignore the rules if I think doing so is the best way to improve Knowledge (XXG) in a given instance.
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I'm sure you must be right, but I don't respond to threats. However, I won't revert you if you restore them. You
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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policy. You don't get to play silly dominance games to get other editors to do what you want. It is
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month, and then, if consensus leans your way, the merge notices can be removed.
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Alleister Crowley: a modernist freemason, but also linked to the third reich?!
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There is also an article called Nazi Esotericism, perhaps a merge would help?
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do so again. PS. Thanks for adding the hatnotes, they are very helpful.
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A merge with Nazi Esotericism wouldn't be right, since that page is now
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Before the NSDAP was a political party, it was an occult organization
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The best source I've found on the topic is Hitler's Monsters but
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column on 20 July 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
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See, it is so weird to play games like this one nowadays. --
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This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
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This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
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1465:. You explicitly did not follow the procedures outlined at
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cover post-war Esoteric Neo-Nazism, which is the focus of
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at the top of both articles help clear up any confusion.
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1389:. I've removed the merge tag, moved the article to
1442:related yet distinct topics in a single article.
1577:is a policy, so I'd kindly ask you to stop your
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1282:- LuckyLouie
1268:- LuckyLouie
1242:— Preceding
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1046:Did you know
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1028:A fact from
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833:articles to
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634:LGBT studies
625:project page
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606:LGBTQ portal
578:LGBT studies
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40:WikiProjects
1583:WP:REFACTOR
1343:Merge with
103:Neopaganism
94:Neopaganism
59:Neopaganism
30:Start-class
1746:Categories
1699:reply here
1652:PARAKANYAA
1618:PARAKANYAA
1593:reply here
1531:reply here
1477:reply here
1420:reply here
1367:reply here
1229:Aeonfluxus
973:Skepticism
964:skepticism
924:Skepticism
629:discussion
1542:WP:POLICY
1502:pointless
1121:Archive 4
1114:Archive 3
1109:Archive 2
1104:Archive 1
1034:Main Page
1721:hatnotes
1638:Skyerise
1571:Skyerise
1557:Skyerise
1520:Skyerise
1506:Skyerise
1458:Skyerise
1444:Skyerise
1440:coatrack
1409:Skyerise
1395:Skyerise
1256:contribs
1244:unsigned
1092:Archives
848:Religion
826:Religion
773:Religion
437:Politics
428:politics
384:Politics
1149:90 days
1036:in the
1000:on the
952:science
875:on the
748:on the
553:on the
464:on the
359:on the
332:Germany
323:Germany
279:Germany
240:on the
130:on the
1719:, the
1717:WP:HEY
1715:. Per
1553:policy
1206:actual
213:Occult
204:occult
169:Occult
36:scale.
1573:Now,
1264:WP:RS
621:LGBTQ
1683:talk
1656:talk
1642:talk
1622:talk
1561:talk
1510:talk
1448:talk
1399:talk
1357:this
1334:talk
1322:More
1313:talk
1286:talk
1272:talk
1252:talk
1215:talk
1191:talk
1177:talk
962:and
837:and
835:good
1728:5Q5
1488:are
1383:not
992:Low
867:Low
839:1.0
740:Low
545:Low
456:Low
351:Low
232:Mid
122:Mid
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42::
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