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Talk:Occultism in Nazism

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886: 1469:, nor did you wait the bare minimum (a week, but realistically, much more - I would wait however long it takes for at least 2-3 more folks to notice the discussion) for a consensus to emerge. Therefore I ask you to follow the merge guidelines and at least restore the templates that you improperly removed (no, I am not "demanding" that, but keep in mind that violating Knowledge (XXG) policies can have negative consequences eventually). PS. To put it simply: you did not follow the proper merge close procedures, so please self-revert yourself. 1227:(available in book and audiobook form) which unlike many other books and documentaries takes a strictly academic perspective. I only have it in audiobook form, making citing it a bit difficult, but for those that want to put in the work it stands far above all I've yet found and well worth the time of any serious historian. A quick glance at his wiki should be enough to prove his qualifications. Full title and ISDN: Hitler's Monsters: A Supernatural History of the Third Reich. Yale University Press, New Haven, 2017. ISBN 9780300189452 - 81: 53: 683: 918: 662: 1171:
interested in discrediting the idea that Hitler was a sorcerer with real magical powers or something, which is kind of silly given that its rather obvious that he didn't have magical powers. I mean, sure, Hitler didn't actually commune with the dark forces and the Nazi party wasn't secretly run by shadowy mystical cults but he and many other Nazis still believed in various occult ideas to varying degrees but this article doesn't mention any of that.
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articles before deciding they cover the "same topic". The topics are clearly different, and while it is your right to add the tags again to force a discussion, it isn't within your rights to demand that I do so. Merge discussions are rarely allowed to go more than a month, and there is no rule against removing a misguided merge proposal by an editor who happens to know that the articles are intentionally separate due to a consensus not to
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You broke it - you should fix it. This is really simple netiquette (or wikiquette), and all I am asking is that you follow it. And sure, I will spend my time, again, restoring content you removed in violation of the merge guidelines, and I am glad you say are ok with that; I am just asking you not to
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This is very different than the Esoteric Nazism described by the article, which didn't become relevant until after the war, and is largely based on a cult of personality and deification surrounding Hitler. For example, two of Esoteric Nazism's chief ideologues, Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano, Devi
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The articles are split so that people can differentiate between the influence pagan tradition, occultism and esoterica had on "orthodox" WW2 Nazism, which is largely speculative, and was a fringe movement, mainly propagated by Heinrich Himmler and his SS. This wasn't explicitly done out of genuine
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must make the edit that you want to make: well, that's an attitude that I simply don't understand; adding a threat makes it impossible for me to comply. I'm putting up no opposition here, so if you continue to make this a talk page battle rather than just restore the tags yourself, I won't respond
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While I appreciate your explanation, I don't think you should remove the merge proposal - I may well agree with you, but a discussion like this should be left visible for several month to ensure there is consensus not to merge. I'd kindly ask you to restore the merge notice and revisit this in few
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Also, just as weird is even Puzzle and Dragons Z. It involves the polytheism from racial discriminators, even humanists, but also promasonic elements such as nondogmatic and nonenigmatic (you are beating Enigma and Dogma into absolute oblivion without actual included replayability). Even a Crowley
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I am shocked that there is NO mention in this article of the Thule Society, which mutated into the Nazi Party. The fact that this organization, along with Dietrich Eckhart (the man who mentored Hitler and gave him his education in politics, without which his rise to power would never have been
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You are welcome to restore them, but I am not going to restore them myself, because I don't believe the articles should be merged. Before a merge discussion is placed, an editor should check the archives for split discussions, which you failed to do. They should also read the entirety of both
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This article is mainly about the historiography of Nazi occultism but doesn't actually discuss it. It hardly provides any actual details on things like Wewelsburg, the Anenherbe, the influence of folkisch mysticism on Nazi ideology, the Thule Society etc. Rather the article seems to be more
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Yes, the sources do the same thing: material about occultism and historical Nazism is much more sparse and speculative - it was an aspect of Nazism for some Nazis, but not something generally believed or promoted as a religion; Esoteric Neo-Nazism on the other hand is a distinct
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and focuses specifically on modern esotericist interpretations of Nazi ideology. This page does need some serious work - the focus is misdirected IMO and makes it really unclear whether we're talking about conspiracy theories alleging secret control of the Nazi party or about
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I don't see how the topics are substantially different. I'd suggest merging the Esoteric Nazism here (18 vs 9 interwikis), and also renaming this article (the term "Occultism in Nazism" does not exist in GS, "Esoteric Nazism" does and could be retained after merge but
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I checked that discussion and it represents a consensus of only two editors, with no indication there was any notification of proposed split in article itself. I stand by my believe that by removing the merge notice you are not following best practices; per
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crossover between occultist belief systems and Nazism in Nazi Germany. I would argue that we should focus on the latter. I made some attempts at cleaning up the first section, but there's a lot more to be done, and the lead should be rewritten entirely.
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belief in paganism however, and the most likely explanation is that Himmler thought Christianity was inherently bad because of its roots in the Jewish people and faith, and promoted paganism because it was, in his mind, purely Germanic.
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behavior. I've said go ahead and put them back if you like and that I won't remove them again. If you think someone is going to give me "negative consequences" when I've said that you should just go ahead, but instead you insist that
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Basically, one covers the influences esotericism had on the original Nazi regime, while this article covers what is essentially a New Religious Movement based around Hitler, Nazism, Pagan religions, and racial purity.
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and is covered as such in sources, though Goodrick-Clarke confuses the issue by calling the NRM "Esoteric Nazism" rather than "Esoteric Neo-Nazism", it is specifically covered as a post-war phenomenon.
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being "demanding" when you won't simply do yourself what I've suggested you do. Adding a threat about "negative consequences" into what has been a civil discussion, seems to me to cross the line into
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possible) are never even mentioned greatly detracts from this article's credibility and usefulness. This is an embarrassing omission that should be corrected ASAP. Thanks! :-)
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I do think splitting by time period makes sense, as wartime Nazism and Neo-Nazism are often discussed distinctly, though do the sources do the same thing?
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Dear anon. Thank you for the very clear explanation. If possible, could you back it up with reliable sources and add it to the lead of both articles?
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The article actually has two mentions of the Thule society and an external link, so I'm not sure what your complaint is about. -
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believed Hitler was "an avatar of Vishnu" and Serrano believed Hitler was an incarnated god made flesh to save the Aryan race.
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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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might be better (not sure if occult should be capitalized?). Such a title would be more clear, and it is the same as of
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Since when are masons, being mostly known as a holocaust victim group, now weirdly also involved in the third reich?!
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that I get to ignore the rules if I think doing so is the best way to improve Knowledge (XXG) in a given instance.
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I'm sure you must be right, but I don't respond to threats. However, I won't revert you if you restore them. You
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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policy. You don't get to play silly dominance games to get other editors to do what you want. It is
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Knowledge (XXG):Merging#Step_4:_Close_the_merge_discussion_and_determine_consensus
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month, and then, if consensus leans your way, the merge notices can be removed.
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Alleister Crowley: a modernist freemason, but also linked to the third reich?!
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There is also an article called Nazi Esotericism, perhaps a merge would help?
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do so again. PS. Thanks for adding the hatnotes, they are very helpful.
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A merge with Nazi Esotericism wouldn't be right, since that page is now
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Before the NSDAP was a political party, it was an occult organization
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The best source I've found on the topic is Hitler's Monsters but
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column on 20 July 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
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See, it is so weird to play games like this one nowadays. --
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This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
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This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
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cover post-war Esoteric Neo-Nazism, which is the focus of
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at the top of both articles help clear up any confusion.
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1027: 1024: 1020: 1019: 1003: 999: 993: 990: 989: 986: 969: 965: 961: 960:pseudohistory 957: 956:pseudoscience 953: 949: 948: 943: 940: 936: 935: 931: 925: 922: 919: 915: 902: 899:(assessed as 898: 897: 887: 883: 882: 878: 874: 868: 865: 864: 861: 844: 840: 836: 832: 828: 827: 822: 821: 820: 811: 805: 800: 798: 795: 791: 790: 786: 779: 774: 771: 768: 764: 751: 747: 741: 738: 737: 734: 717: 713: 709: 708: 700: 689: 687: 684: 680: 679: 675: 669: 666: 663: 659: 647: 643:LGBT articles 630: 626: 622: 618: 617: 616: 607: 596: 594: 591: 587: 586: 582: 579: 576: 573: 569: 556: 552: 546: 543: 542: 539: 522: 518: 514: 513: 508: 505: 501: 500: 496: 490: 487: 484: 480: 467: 463: 457: 454: 453: 450: 433: 429: 425: 424: 416: 410: 405: 403: 400: 396: 395: 391: 385: 382: 379: 375: 362: 358: 352: 349: 348: 345: 328: 324: 320: 319: 311: 300: 298: 295: 291: 290: 286: 280: 277: 274: 270: 252: 248: 247: 243: 239: 233: 230: 229: 226: 209: 205: 201: 200: 195: 192: 188: 187: 183: 170: 167: 164: 160: 142: 138: 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1104:Archive 1 1034:Main Page 1721:hatnotes 1638:Skyerise 1571:Skyerise 1557:Skyerise 1520:Skyerise 1506:Skyerise 1458:Skyerise 1444:Skyerise 1440:coatrack 1409:Skyerise 1395:Skyerise 1256:contribs 1244:unsigned 1092:Archives 848:Religion 826:Religion 773:Religion 437:Politics 428:politics 384:Politics 1149:90 days 1036:in the 1000:on the 952:science 875:on the 748:on the 553:on the 464:on the 359:on the 332:Germany 323:Germany 279:Germany 240:on the 130:on the 1719:, the 1717:WP:HEY 1715:. Per 1553:policy 1206:actual 213:Occult 204:occult 169:Occult 36:scale. 1573:Now, 1264:WP:RS 621:LGBTQ 1683:talk 1656:talk 1642:talk 1622:talk 1561:talk 1510:talk 1448:talk 1399:talk 1357:this 1334:talk 1322:More 1313:talk 1286:talk 1272:talk 1252:talk 1215:talk 1191:talk 1177:talk 962:and 837:and 835:good 1728:5Q5 1488:are 1383:not 992:Low 867:Low 839:1.0 740:Low 545:Low 456:Low 351:Low 232:Mid 122:Mid 1748:: 1685:) 1658:) 1644:) 1624:) 1563:) 1549:is 1544:. 1512:) 1450:) 1401:) 1336:) 1315:) 1288:) 1274:) 1266:? 1258:) 1254:• 1217:) 1209:-- 1193:) 1179:) 958:, 954:, 903:). 776:: 1732:| 1696:| 1681:( 1654:( 1640:( 1620:( 1590:| 1569:@ 1559:( 1528:| 1518:@ 1508:( 1497:I 1474:| 1456:@ 1446:( 1417:| 1407:@ 1397:( 1364:| 1332:( 1311:( 1284:( 1270:( 1250:( 1213:( 1189:( 1175:( 1065:. 1058:? 1004:. 879:. 752:. 631:. 557:. 468:. 363:. 244:. 134:. 42::

Index


content assessment
WikiProjects
WikiProject icon
Neopaganism
WikiProject icon
WikiProject Neopaganism
Neopaganism
the discussion
Mid
project's importance scale
Note icon
WikiProject icon
Occult
WikiProject icon
WikiProject Occult
occult
the discussion
Mid
project's importance scale
Note icon
WikiProject icon
Germany
WikiProject icon
Germany portal
WikiProject Germany
Germany
the discussion
Low
project's importance scale

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