1379:). There are probably many more that's the first fellow I found on Google. In the case of attorney disciplinary cases in Washington State, where I am a member of the bar, the notices have qualifiers that say things like "Mr. John Q. Smith of Wenatchee is not to be confused with Mr. John Q. Smith of Omak." It is a form of disambiguation which is directly relevant to those individuals. Administrator Balsiger has been very clear that the unfortunate circumstances of his name and geographic proximity to Activist Balsiger, in conjunction with Knowledge have made it difficult for him to differentiate himself. I understand the fear of a cascade of Joe Blow disambiguations. In this case, I think everyone agrees the (activist) nomenclature is correct. There seems to be an open question about how to properly differentiate a Joe Blow (controversial) from Joe Blow (anybody) from Joe Blow (star), Joe Blow (author), or Joe Blow (notable noun). Is the red link overkill? Not to this Administrator Balsiger, who acknowledges he is not, and does not intend to be, notable. He just doesn't want to be labeled incorrectly: guy who said the Pope is the anti-Christ vs. administrator at a Catholic institution. That does seem reasonable under the circumstances.--
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the very top of the article opens us up to abuse and spamming. Where do we draw the line? Is it only people who threaten to sue? Is it only if the primary article has a negative slant? What about music bands, websites, or companies? And how many do we allow? I can easily see the top of the an article having five or six of these, none of which link to an article (which is the purpose of a top link disambiguation notice).
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I just undid the above action. Sorry, I shoulda read this Talk Page first. Nonetheless, I disagree with BradPatrick's actions and would like to see a consensus for this solution. I'm sorry if non-notable Mr. Balsiger (administrator) is confused with notable Mr. Balsiger (anti-Catholic activist).
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That said, disambiguation is appropriate when there is a possible risk of confusion, which evidently there is. Though the 'other' Les
Balsiger may lack encyclopedic notability and won't get another article any time soon, if recognizing his existence with a redlink avoids legal trouble, so be it. But
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Yes, that whole debacle (including a massive linkspamming incident) is why this page is on my watchlist at all and it sort of left a bad taste in my mouth, which is one reason why I'm opposed to having a link to the non-notable administrator. But if Brad has indeed verified the person's identity, I
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after the newspaper very nearly attributed a website from the ultraconservative street preacher to the moderate
Episcopal priest - if they had done so there would have been a "verifiable" source confusing the two identities! I see the argument against disambiguating people simply because they have
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Just let me be absolutely clear: I also have great confidence in Mr. Patrick's judgment, and I fully support adding the "(activist)" clarifier to the title of this article. But allowing anyone (or anything?) with the same name as an existing article to add their name and occupation/description to
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Yes, I checked his user page after I made the above post. I think it should be made clearer, for future reference, that this action was an official
Wikimedia Foundation action. Some of us ordinary Wikipedians don't pay too much attention to who the higher-ups are. Nothing personal, you understand.
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I concur in Brad's change. It's a small thing and it's fair to administrator
Balsiger. More importantly, it's a cheap way to avoid legal trouble for the Foundation. Ultimately, the Foundation would prevail, but it would be draining in terms of time and money. I have a lot of confidence in Brad's
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I took out the "harshly" in the opening sentence. I agree 100% that the criticism was harsh, however us saying so gives the impression of POVism. Also it seems to me that when "the pope" is used, refering to the current pope, it is in lower case. The same with "the queen", refering to Queen
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There is a great deal of comments about how we cannot disambiguate every pair of people; this is true, but I don't know why it should be a particularly high bar either; I have a sense that, while a person may not be notable, the fact that they are in close physical proximity to someone with a
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I'm thrilled at the response to this. My overarching concern is that
Administrator Balsiger is, in fact, being confused for the person who is the activist. It is precisely the Dean Carter (plumber) problem. (Or rather, Dean Carter (HVAC) - to the TRANE rep in Seattle, I'm sorry Mr. Carter
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If people do want the red link to point to the RfD, how about instead moving the deleted Les
Balsiger to (administrator), deleting it again and then protecting it (the RFD will have to be moved as well I presume). This way the red link will be to a protected page which links to the RfD.
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Note that there was significant discussion of this question which I subsequently blanked out of concern that the article might be pointing a finger at the wrong Les
Balsiger. Blanking talk page discussions is almost always forbidden, but there are rare exceptions -- see
801:. The Les Balsiger referred to in the newspaper references cited engaged in very public, if controversial behavior. He deserves a straight, honest story but (in my unofficial opinion) he is not entitled to the privacy protections of a non-public person.
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Rereading comments - should the red link instead point to the RfD re: non-notability? That's its own problem, and even more confusing. I was not intending to create policy here, I was solving this problem for this person under these
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Elizabeth, or "the president", refering to the current US president. I personally think it should be capitalized, which is why I noticed it. I had been capitalizing them and changed to conform to what newspapers, etc. were doing.
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General practice is we should not disambig when there are only two links unless both people are equally noteable. Okay, I know this is a particularly unique case but I feel creating a disambig page is just worse in this case
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radically different viewpoint has a sort of notability that merits mention. I am reminded of a similar episode of two men of faith at
Princeton with radically different viewpoints; the student newspaper wrote this article
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I hate to use the old "slippery slope" argument, and I'm sure you had a good legal reason for your actions, but I worry about what this commits
Knowledge to do for anyone who shares a name with a negatively portrayed
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action, it would have been clearly indicated as such. So it's safe to assume this was a purely preemptive measure, still open for community discussion and revision.
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the {{distinguish}} template is overspecific and definitely too much for this article. How about replacing it with a generic {{otherpeople}}, pointing to a proper
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I also find this troublesome and would like to bring this situation to the larger wiki community, because I am tempted to simply remove the redlinked template. Is
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Well, since Mr. Patrick made the edit in his official capacity as legal counsel for the
Wikimedia Foundation, we are prohibited from reverting it. I have left
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the same name, but not the argument against disambiguating people in cases where an otherwise nonnotable person is negatively affected by the association?
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Expand "Glacier View Controversy" section, to include more background, history, theological issues, and details of the Glacier View meeting itself
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Are there important facts that are not included but should be included? (Note that these have to be verifiable using reliable sources -- see
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Respectfully, I think this sets a very worrisome precedent to have a disambig top notice for a non-notable person. What if someone named
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And I also agree we have to pick our battles. But this is a major precedent that we will one day be very sorry about if we leave it. --
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No really, we're talking about that someone tries to influence Knowledge's content by threatening with a lawsuit. (for later reference
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That's the way the cookie crumbles. We cannot have disambigs for every non-notable perso with the same name as a notable person. --
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in the hatnote? Otherwise it makes no sense to have a hatnote, I think. Not sure if this was an oversight or by design. Thanks.
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Just did redirects and disambiguation. Administrator Balsiger will never have a red link until he does something notable. :) --
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Going beyond the issue of superficial, factual neutrality, there are subtler but just as important neutrality issues? See
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ability to finesse these things with minimal disruption to Knowledge. I'm sorry he's resigned his official position. --
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As a result of direct communication with Mr. Balsiger (administrator) I have disambiguated the pages and redirected
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article and saw that they capitalized it there too. I think they are wrong but I'm not going to bother.
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who is not the serial killer calls and threatens to sue? Would that article now have to be tagged with
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Add to "Adventist Responses to Criticisms" section, ideally with material from Adventist scholars etc.
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982:? And my guess is that there are probably several dozen people in the United States with that name.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This person clearly meets our notability requirements by virtue of the newspaper coverage -- see
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disambiguation page with two entries, where an eternal redlink shouldn't really bother anyone?
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guess I can overlook what was a good faith, albeit clumsy, effort to clear his name.
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Is the subject of this article the same person as the La Grande, OR Les Balsiger?
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Perhaps the EOU Les Balsiger could shed some light on the identity question.
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More importantly, I appreciate your work on this problematic article! --
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on his talk page asking if he might check back here and reconsider the
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Women's History Month: Create or improve articles for women listed at
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Strike that. After looking at how Brad has done it, seems good to me
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This article is about a different Les Balsiger presently living in
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This is about a living person who is non-notable and is an attack
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Thanks. I'll take out "harshly" but leave "Pope" capitalized.
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about the Les Balsiger presently working as an administrator at
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Brad Patrick may correct me if I'm wrong, but if this was an
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83:Start-class
1560:Categories
1256:Satori Son
1159:Satori Son
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725:Upload
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1490:talk
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