889:. The sub-chapter dealing with the Lithuanian Civil War in Sliesoriūnas' book of 2015, which is the sub-chapter "4.3 Lithuanian Civil War (1697–1702)", continues onto sub-chapter " 4.4 Great Northern War in Lithuania (1700–1709)". I can only assume that the reason for the cut-off year of 1702 is because, as Sliesoriūnas writes in p550-551, "The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was almost free from the units of the Swedes and their allies Sapieha from the latter half of 1702 until 1704." As for Budreckis, he does not give any ending year for the civil war, instead continuing on about the events in Lithuania during the Great Northern War, as well as touching upon the remaining 18th century - the article's main focus is the Lithuanian Grand Hetmans and so it concerns them mainly.
820:"On 6 October 1696 in Warsaw, an agreement was signed between the Bishop of Vilnius and the representative of the Lithuanian Grand Hetman. It was agreed upon that there would be some benefits for the Bishop of Vilnius' ecclesiastical land holdings, but the hetman's right to decide whether to quarter the army for winter in the bishop's and church's holdings was, practically speaking, recognized. The nuncio committed himself to declaring the hetman innocent. It was forbidden in the future to excommunicate Lithuania's ministers without the Pope's approval in advance. The bishop refused to call the hetman to the sejm's court. ".
443:
Poland-Lithuania then has only one sentence on conflict: "Lithuanian Great Hetman Jan
Sapieha lost the battle of Olkienniki in 1700 to a magnate levy stiffened with Saxon regulars." (August II was Saxon) In the subsequent division of power among the remaining families, Lithuania could not act in a united manner. August failed to raise enough money and to train his men well enough to successfully resist the Swedes. Fast forward (slightly) and we've got Swedish-occupied Warsaw. It wasn't as much a civil war as a consequence of August II maneuvering to try to head off the Swedes.
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1164:, at this point the review has been open for well over 6 months. The last edits the nom made were at ANI on January 25, during a discussion about the two of you having a content dispute elsewhere in the Lithuania topic area. During that ANI he went so far as to suggest you be TBANned from the area. There's also an
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background of the events should be expanded, it is not mentioned that originally
Sapieha was in conflict primarily with King Sobieski, while the Bishop of Vilnius was more a royal tool. It should be mentioned that Sapieha's power was built up by the king as a counterbalance to the Pacs. And it was
1172:
continued arguing between the two of you on each others' talk pages during that ANI. With all due respect, this does not suggest that he will be interested in collaborating with you in the GA process on this article any further. Frankly, the amount of squabbling between you two in this topic area
914:
for ease, because my responses will be intermingling with your text, so I'm doing it for clarity's sake. I'm dividing up my responses like that because I can't immediately address all the different things you've noticed, so I will address some of them faster, and others a bit slower, due to the
442:
Don't know that's really quite correct. August II gained temporary control of
Lithuania in order to prepare to keep Sweden out by allying himself with the enemies of the Sapieha faction, who had dominated the last decade after Michał and Zygmunt Pac died. Daniel Stone's (seminal) history of
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try to double check dates and names, we need more dates of easily datable events like battles. Check if nothing is omitted. For example there is no mention of the agreement of 28 January 1698. Also I'm pretty sure that
Sapieha's army in Jurbarkas battle was led by Jerzy not Kazimierz Jan.
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still valid: the article still lacks neccessary context, it omits important events, the narrative is also incomprehensible, it is not clear why some things follow each other. It is still unclear why the article ends with 1702 saying that "the civil war was still going
1031:, it's been over three weeks since you last posted, and you've made over a hundred edits elsewhere on Knowledge while not posting to this review. If you can't prioritize this review, then you should strongly consider calling for a new reviewer. It isn't fair to
715:
Neuburg affair is mentioned but still lacks detail; there is not mention of "Berlin scandal" and involvement of king's son Jakub, who was berthorted to
Karolina Radziwiłł. Also there is no mention of a short "war" between Radziwiłłs and Sapiehas in after her
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It will also take me some time to answer all of your notes. Also, I am unsure about how active I will be able to be on
Knowledge during the next few days due to a trip, so I might only be able to answer them later.
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In
Sliesoriūnas' book (2015), he writes in p516 that "The most notable event of that time was Kazimieras Jonas Sapiega's excommunication ". This is reaffirmed in p518 of the same book, where it is written
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This agreement was between the king and
Lithuanian nobility and stated that the Lithuanian army's size was to be slashed by more than half in an attempt to subvert the Sapiehas, thus resulting in diarchy
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the aims and causes of the war, as well as its ultimate conclusion, are not clear. The leaders of the republican camp (Ludwik Pociej, Grzegorz
Oginski, Michał Kociełł, etc.) are not mentioned.
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484:... Of course this war was part of the larger picture, and we should expand the article and elaborate on that. PS. Yes, I think it is the true that this civil war further weakened Poland.--
1000:, could you please review this article and whether it meets the criteria for becoming a good article? A lot of what you pointed out previously was added to it since you last reviewed it.--
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I would speculate that Polish sources might see this "civil war" as having divided and weakened the north, leading to the Swedes being able to break through. Is this the case? —
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801:, this needs a double checking, because AFAIK Sapieha had right to station his troops in Church estates, but still king supported Brzostowski in the conflict
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only later that the
Sapiehas turned against Sobieski. The issue of the French party and contacts with the French court, is also important, needs expanding.
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You may have to judge the article on its current state then. It doesn't make sense to keep it open for 6 months waiting for the nom to engage. ♠
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831:, I don't think it's the best wording, Polish language was already used in documents, from now on it was the sole language of administration
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for discussion. No prejudice against a renomination should the nominator return at a later date and wish to undertake GAN again. ♠
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events of 1695 and 1696 aren't mentioned, conflict with the Radziwiłłs over the Neuburg estate, reconciliation with Brzostowski
772:
if you are reading in Lithuanian, you should look up works of Gintautas Sliesoriūnas, who is an expert on this particular topic
704:
this note still is valid, conflict with bishop was really a conflict with a king Sobieski, the conflict also didn't end in 1694
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1071:: it's been a month since the last post here, and six months since this review was opened. What are we doing here, guys? ♠
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The term civil war (pl: wojna domowa) is used for this 1700 conflict in some Polish scholarly publications. Examples:
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I think I did it initially because I thought it needed to be emphasized, but I decide to remove them in this
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248:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
660:
Hi, I will try to review this article, although it may tak a while and I will be adding my notes gradually
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Jan Sapieha still maintained the will to regain his power and so, the Lithuanian Civil War continued
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although the army was only allowed to station in state estates and was forbidden in church estates
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The problem here is that although the civil war continued, it became too intertwined with the
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because they look out of place, although italicizing is justified for emphasis following
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Knowledge talk:Good article nominations#Talk:Lithuanian Civil War (1697–1702)/GA1
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for another dispute between the two of you in the same topic area. There's
632:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
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Cukrakalnis didn't make any changes since my last update of the review
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It seems like Cukrakalnis lost interest in developing of the article
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no mention of the Neuburg affair, it's an important context
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854:, what kind of diarchy? What agreement, when it was signed?
829:
introduction of the Polish language in Lithuanian documents
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What is the status of this review? Is it still ongoing?
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the bishop excommunited Sapieha in the Vilnius Cathedral
910:, I will write my responses &tc. to your points in
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This article has been checked against the following
152:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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1273:Baltic states military history task force articles
53:for improving the article. If you can improve it,
1146:if he still wants to improve the article or not
760:I have now added the republican leaders in this
1268:B-Class Baltic states military history articles
1129:Then fail it. The nom can always renominate. ♠
1283:European military history task force articles
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981:Yes, it is ongoing, but there was a hiatus.
1014:I'll try to find some free time to do that
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630:Talk:Lithuanian Civil War (1697–1702)/GA1
533:closing this as unsuccessful. Please see
402:Baltic states military history task force
1190:You'll see the ping, but I've posted to
242:This article is within the scope of the
1192:Knowledge talk:Good article nominations
723:why Republicans are written in italics?
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262:Knowledge:WikiProject Military history
252:. To use this banner, please see the
1173:suggests to me that you would not be
488:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
265:Template:WikiProject Military history
20:
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553:The following discussion is closed.
418:European military history task force
146:This article is within the scope of
862:I hope I have addressed it in this
89:It is of interest to the following
780:Yes, I have been doing so already.
14:
1263:B-Class military history articles
1258:Mid-importance Lithuania articles
1230:The discussion above is closed.
1035:to keep them waiting this long.
877:, so why the article ended here?
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27:Lithuanian Civil War (1697–1702)
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1115:It's not GA quality right now
169:Template:WikiProject Lithuania
1:
1059:19:29, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
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915:necessary reading involved.--
160:and see a list of open tasks.
1248:Former good article nominees
1203:22:37, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1186:22:27, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1156:22:14, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1138:18:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1125:18:25, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1111:18:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1098:09:36, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1080:06:21, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
1024:22:50, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
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991:17:13, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
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245:Military history WikiProject
47:). There are suggestions on
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499:22:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
455:01:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
310:Referencing and citation:
192:project's importance scale
37:, but it did not meet the
1177:to collaborate on a GA. ♠
925:18:58, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
686:20:27, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
670:11:57, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
655:11:57, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
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1142:Let's wait a bit for @
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33:Warfare good article
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85:content assessment
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750:still valid
737:MOS:ITALICS
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332:Structure:
59:renominated
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951:Discussion
579:Authorship
565:GA toolbox
505:Nomination
998:@Marcelus
908:@Marcelus
638:Reviewer:
602:Templates
593:Reviewing
523:GA Review
438:Civil war
163:Lithuania
154:Lithuania
110:Lithuania
55:please do
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1065:Marcelus
1051:Marcelus
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