1376:
also to elaborate on what you are saying, I understand your point but if you are concerned with the simple fact of it being uneven just because a U.S. represented team is in the finals every year, then you can also make a case that its uneven and unfair that states like
California have over 20,000 participating Little League teams ever year compared to the amount of participating Little League clubs that are in other states and even other regions and countries. Isn't that also unfair for other competition? I understand your point for it being unfair, but since the LLWS is a U.S. made event, and since there are a much higher number of American participating Little League clubs than international clubs from each countries, it makes some sense on why it is that way. In my opinion it does not look right to have a table with international countries tallies going against individual U.S. state. I understand your side of the argument, where the U.S. team is always guaranteed a spot in the championship and how there were some tournaments held before any other countries were introduced; but on the contrary, its also unfair to tally countries against US states, when as a whole the United States ranked as a country has more championships. It would make more sense to me if a table was made tallying wins from U.S. states comparing them to regions, Providences, etc. from other countries. However, I feel that would not work either since its hard to compare U.S. states, to regions, to cities, to provinces, etc. from other countries. So I propose that we come to a consensus and figure this out. A mutual proposition that I have is that two tables should be made. I propose that one table just has U.S. states while the other just has countries including the United States. Also, for any argument that the U.S. is not a team I disagree since the U.S. represented team that wins the U.S. finals in the tournament is known in the finals as the United States and by their state/region. I'm not going to make any edits until a consensus is made, I know and now realize my wrongs in doing edited without a consensus in the past and I apologize for that. However, I do feel you are being one sided on the matter and are not open to come to a mutual agreement. I encourage that if you still disagree with my ideas and or compromise, that you offer other ideas and opinions of yours as well so progress with this can be made. Lets gather a consensus and finally make this right. Some agreement needs to be made and I am open to talk and find something that majority agrees on, I hope you feel the same.
3012:. On this article if you check on the highlight video at the start of the article, at approximately 10 seconds into the video when Manu Lau Kong for Hawaii hits a home run, why does the United States flag graphic show up on the score box in the right hand corner? Shouldn't the Hawaiian flag show up instead? Likewise, at approximately, 1 minute and 24 seconds when Hawaii wins the game a graphic at the bottom of the screen shows up stating `Hawaii, 2018 Little League World Series Champions` with a United States flag graphic again. I would like to see a counter argument for that. Also, I do understand that the source is not 100% convenient, but at the moment its the only reliable and suitable one I could find considering its from ESPN themselves. To further explain why they weren't called the "United States" in this championship game it is pretty simple to comprehend, considering the fact that through the whole Little League World Series they were identified as Hawaii, and that there are 7 other teams from the United States that were in the tournament; It would make things a lot more confusing if in the last game Hawaii was suddenly now known as the United States. Japan for example, on the other hand entered the tournament as the only team from Japan so it would make perfect sense and would not be confusing at all if they were known as Japan throughout the whole tournament. Another analogy that can explain this are how each state also represents a region. Although for example, New York isn't called "Team Mid-Atlantic" throughout the tournament, they are still representing the Mid Atlantic region, just as even though Hawaii isn't specifically called the United States, enough evidence proves that are representing the United States; and a win by them in the finals is both a win for Hawaii individualy and a win for the United States as a country. This is why I believe that the United States should be represented on the tables in the passage, and on the heading. It just doesn't logically make sense that countries are being compared to U.S. states, instead of either two separate tables for countries and states, or just having the U.S. as a whole tallied on the top with a "-" dash as its rank instead of 1.
3089:@Kiwifist So here is a great example to counter that. In the Olympics for example when certain countries don’t compete in an event or in the Olympics but then compete the next year, do all other former achievements from other countries just get erased from the the record book? The point of the table is to tally all of the championships, it isn’t a competition between countries which it seems you are trying to make it into. Just because international countries weren’t in some of the older tournaments does not erase the fact that they were played and won. It’s like for example, if in a major sports league like the NBA, if an expansion team is added to the league, do all former achievements and championships by other teams get erased? While it might not be fair to other countries and might be biased to the United States, does not matter. The fact of the matter is are that those championships happened and were awarded to the United States. This is not a competition like you are making it seem to be. Also, you keep bringing up the fact that the LLWS website does not state these things. However, the only link you are showing is a chart that shows each team that won the title each year, and we already went over that each state in the final keeps its state name so it’s not confusing to the viewers. This does not mean that they aren’t representing the U.S. in the finals. Please re read the argument if you don’t understand. The other user who commented on this even agrees that the US is a team, they are just stuck on if the tournament is fair or not. So we are past the problem on if they are recognized a team or not,if you still don’t understand or agree re read the conversation, thank you.
3008:
Little League World Series, while 8 teams from the United States start out in the tournament. In Japan, many teams from competing cities battle it out to become the sole team representing Japan. When these teams are playing each other they are all not known as team Japan. For example, it may be a little league team from Tokyo versing a team from some other
Japanese city. The same goes for when multiple little league teams from one state in the U.S. play each other for a chance to represent their state. So since the representing little league team from Japan is the sole surviving team from Japan they are now known as Japan when they enter the Little League World Series. This coincides with the U.S. side of the tournament when the sole team from the U.S. wins the United States Championship game and advances to the final. Although, for example, when Hawaii just earlier today played in their championship game they weren't specifically called the "United States", they were still represented by a United States flag instead of a Hawaii flag in graphics on ESPN when the game was broadcast ed as shown here
2673:. On this page the European Union is represented with a dash (-) as they have the unofficial 2nd highest GDP but aren't a single country. Since the table tallies championships by states for the U.S. I can see why people may disagree, but the fact that other countries are represented on the table means that the U.S. should be represented as well, even if they are unofficial. I saw as one of your arguments was that no team is represented as the "U.S", however, that is false. The team that wins the U.S. half of the tournament goes into the finals represented as the United States as well as by their state name. For the first column of the page I feel the United States should also be represented as the team with the most championships. However, I agree that Taiwan should be included as well since people may argue that the states win the championships for the state while the foreign countries represent just that country. So if we can make for some way for the column on the first page to show both Taiwan and the U.S. having the most championships, or use an * or () to show that the U.S. has the
3060:@Spintendo I do see your point and I’m happy with the fact that you understand that United States is a team. I understand your concern for how fair it is but look at it like this, Let's take everything you state at face value. Then take into account the fact that there are about 2,200,000 Little League players in the USA. In the rest of the world there are less than 130,000 players. California, I am guessing the largest state playing with around 25,000 teams. This would only make sense for more U.S. teams to be in the tournament and would make sense why they go to the finals every year. This is why I also propose that when the United States is put in the table, their rank is identified with a dash (-) instead of rank 1, just to still identify them as team and country.
3036:. Japan's teams, made up from their different prefectures, would be allowed to play amongst themselves in order to determine who would represent them right up till the end. But not so for the US, who, if the rules were reversed, would then be expected to show up in Japan as an already formed team ready to play - and that team would already be expected to play against other countries like the Dominican Republic, Venezuela and Taiwan. This would be a very precarious position for the US. Without their secured position at the end waiting for them as it is now, the loss of only one or two games against another foreign country like Taiwan or Venezuela and the US would be done for and on the next plane ride home. With their
1127:
thngs equally relevent such as the fact that Japan which has less than 1,000 teams gets to compete automatically every single year while
California that has over 22,000 teams has to fight other states every single year for an opportunity to go. Canada and Mexico also have automatic berths to the international competition. In addition to that the fact that Europe and MEA pools are so poor they have only won 2 games in 3 years and one of those was played against each other, seems to favor the international teams by giving them a handicap in the seeds. All of things are issues but I think Little League does keep things in perspective, afterall this event is a youth sport and also involves complicated logistics.
2935:
teams has to fight other states every single year for an opportunity to go. Canada and Mexico also have automatic berths to the international competition. The number of U.S. participating teams compared to the amount of foreign teams does not even compare. Since the U.S. supplies majority of the teams and invented the tournament, its only fair that they always get a chance to be represented in the finals. On the ESPN coverage of the championship game this year in 2018, Hawaii (the
American represented team in the finals) is represented by an American flag, thus showing that the United States is acknowledged as a team. The United States should be represented as a team in both the table and opening header.
3335:. I have no idea who came up with that mess. 2) As for the US totals, that's tougher because of all the format changes. Even in the early years Mexico was part of the USA south bracket. I would have all the country totals (including the USA) in a table from 1976 forward since that's when international play as we know it today really started. You certainly wouldn't have USA totals from when it was USA vs USA. Maybe you could argue to start it in 1968 but I think a chart from 1976 would be best. I watch the event every year, and I played little league as a kid decades ago, but that's the extent of my experience. Good luck to all in solving this.
873:) from each year to find that "Chinese Taipei" didn't appear until 1987; before that it just said "Taiwan". If the issue is about what the LLWS past champions page lists now (which like you mentioned, isn't entirely accurate) or the 1979 introduction of the term "Chinese Taipei", wouldn't it make more sense just to use whatever name the LLWS used in that year (since we are fortunate to have results from each year)? That way you don't have to worry about when the term started being used and can just focus on the team name for that year. Sorry for beating a dead horse here. Thanks! -
2778:
indicated with the most championships is Taiwan with 17 championships. However, this is just wrong since the U.S. holds claim to way more titles. On the current version of the page on the championship tally section, international countries are tallied against U.S. states, which doesn't make any logical sense. I feel that a US bar should be added at the top for the winners table, perhaps with the US name italicized and rank given as just a dash. Similar to how the EU is listed in tables that also include EU countries. The addition would look like this: | — ||
1765:
1713:
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1945:
1493:
primetime games are almost always US. But for the past few years a trend is beginning to develop. Lamade is becoming the US field, with some marquee
International games. And Volunteer is becoming the International field. Little League tries to pass this event off as being wholesome, even going as far as forcing the kids to wear "I won't cheat" on their uniforms. But it is clear that their intention is for a US event, with a side show that is the international tournament over at Volunteer.
74:
53:
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to the
Republic of China (the political entity), kind of like how we use "South Korea" instead of "Republic of Korea" or "Mexico" instead of the "United Mexican States" (i.e. because nobody calls it that). The other note is that although the term "Chinese Taipei" was first introduced in 1980, the LLWS does not use it until 1987. Calling Taiwan/Republic of China that before then isn't really accurate in terms of LLWS records. Thoughts? Thanks! -
3235:, okay thank you, but just to clarify you do agree with the United States being on the country only table correct? And on top of that, what are your opinions on how the United States should be recognized on the table? Should they be represented as rank 1, or above that ranked by a dash (-). And still on that topic, in the main header table in the most titles slot, should Taiwan or the United States be put there? Thank you again.
1744:
84:
3293:, this list is done correctly as far as wording... city/country for International and city/state for USA. But they don't use flag icons for any countries, let alone ridiculous state flags. For all I know they do this for a reason to promote the kids and not the locations, but because they don't use them, we shouldn't use them here. I would suggest we dump all the icons in the chart and just do it like Little League does it.
1914:
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1791:
1811:
453:
1509:
compete with Utah, Oregon, Hawaii, and Nevada to go to the series.California does not get an automatic pass but Mexico and Japan get to send teams every year ? So, the eight international teams that make up about 6% of the player pool get 50% of the teams while the United States that has 94% of the players only gets 50% of the teams. Sounds to me like the bias is in favor of the international teams.
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reason for changing some of them to "Taiwan" (despite being post-1980) was because that was the name that was used at the time. In this case, it should be pretty clear that the 2002 version was written later (when
Chinese Taipei was well in use), and that they just used that name when re-typing up the records. Didn't we have this issue before when Tampabay721 mentioned this site:
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22:
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be heavy on regions. Although I've begun to think that most readers aren't able to identify each state or country's flag. I'm proposing for anyone out there who sees this to give an opinion on whether it should be standard in the playoff bracket to identify each team just by the country or state they represent. I know previously teams would be identified by city
770:
in the
Championship game, which gives them a 50/50 chance of winning the LLWS. A better table would be to put the international teams championship tally by country vs the individual US states. This would mean the the top 5 would be Taiwan with 17, then Japan with 7 then California with 4. etc. This would give some objectivity on a clearly American-biased event.
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2014:
including a brief summary of how key rules or LL audits and documentation requirement changed as a result of this period. I'm not nearly informed enough to write it, other than hearing a bunch of accusations as a player at that time (Taiwan was really sending all-star teams instead of local teams, trained year-round and many other accusations.
3431:
so the winner(New Jersey) was the Little League U.S. Champion, not the Little League World
Champion! The truth is in 1975 there was no Little League World Series played! If you see the year 1975 in combination with Little League World Series you know it is a Lie! No one, including Little League Baseball, has the power to alter History!
2678:
that some compromise that shows Taiwan as the official most and the U.S. as the the unofficial most should be present. I hope you take this into consideration so we can make a compromise that is best for the article. I'm not the first or even only person to have these views, so this should deeply be taken into consideration.
3471:, I tentatively conclude that this isn't a seeding issue (e.g., with lower-seeded teams having to play a play-in game, like in the NCAA basketball tournament), but is purely random. Can anyone here confirm that? I don't think this issue is mentioned in any of the LLWS WP articles, or any of the LLWS webpages I could find.
1428:
was e-mailed they could talk to espn, they would throw a little more weight around than a random individual. Maybe little league does not want those games to be released, due to the futility of the U.S. during those periods. I for one am curious to see just how good those far east teams were, especially Taiwan.
1536:
I used to think that for each year, identifying each team that made it to
Williamsport by the region they won (i.e. West, Mid-Atlantic, Latin America, Asia-Pacific) was the right way to go since the flag that preceded the name was right there, so I changed many of the articles throughout the years to
951:
So I updated the champions page and put "Taiwan" in up to 1986. For some reason little league reverted to calling it Taiwan for '94 and '95, so i used Taiwan for those years also. The basis for this is the tournament brackets on ll.org for each year, i assume this is official and therefore is a valid
769:
The section states that the US is tied with The International teams with 32 titles apiece. However, this does not mention the fact that the US has appeared in every LLWS, while several editions of the LLWS were US-Only (Notably in 1975.) This also neglects to mention that the US is guaranteed a spot
3430:
When it comes to History no one is allowed to deviate from the truth. Here is the truth. For the year 1975 there was no Little League World Champion, period! Why? That year Little League Baseball banned ALL foreign teams(ie. The World) from competing at Williamsport. Only U.S. teams played that year
3330:
Two things. I'm not so sure about those flag icons failing consensus. You have to be able to source their use and if you can't it's a big problem at wikipedia. A BIG problem. As for your query, I would answer it in two parts. 1) I would never give totals of countries vs states. That is inconceivable
3315:
i would agree however, I feel you would be against too many people to make this decision a reality. But I have a question for you. After reading everything in this discussion, and looking through some research if you need to, would you agree that it isn't proper to tally states against countries and
3007:
I'll explain this to you in the simplest way possible. For a team like Japan for example, Japan is a very small country compared to the United States. Thus, they have a lot less participating little league clubs compared to the U.S., and because of that, one team represents Japan at the start of the
1427:
After fruitless google searches I have concluded that the championship telecasts by abc from the 70's through the 90's are nowhere to be found. It would be nice if those games could be put on the internet. I'm sure that abc (or espn now) has those tapes in their archives somewhere. Perhaps if ll.org
1375:
Since we obviously are at a disagreement, can you open a discussion where a consensus can be gathered on the matter? I'm still a bit unfamiliar with how to do certain things on this site. But as you can see some others do agree with me on the matter so it is important to gather a real consensus. And
848:
That's obviously impossible since the name "Chinese Taipei" wasn't around prior to the 1980s, as far as I know. Still, I knew the LLWS (or at least ABC's coverage of the tournament) didn't start using the name "Chinese Taipei" immediately, having seen footage from the 1982 tournament that was won by
824:
Well, to be fair, almost every team (US and international) is from a single area in their respective country, but they can get to chance to represent their country in the LLWS. But yes, I would also agree with removing the US since it has an automatic spot in every championship, even if they play in
809:
Agreed with the removal of the US as all time leader, to be completely honest, the United States should not appear on any of the records, since there is no team that participates in the LLWS under the name "United States." This would be equivalent to the Olympics giving credit to US states for medal
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foreign countries face these odds while the US has a secured place at the end to face the "foreign" leader. Given such an advantage, modesty seems to suggest that only the individual states get to make claims to winning a title, and not the US itself, because the "USA team" as it exists at the very
2934:
Even though other arguments have been made that the tournament always has a U.S. based team in the finals, there are also other facts equally as relevant such as the fact that Japan which has less than 1,000 teams gets to compete automatically every single year while California that has over 22,000
1468:
One piece of evidence I found to support this was which stadium the games are played in. In 2001 a new stadium "Volunteer" was built when the field doubled to 16 teams. However, Volunteer is clearly the 2nd rate stadium when compared to Lamade. Lamade features the picturesque hillside outfield that
1126:
I think you have some excellent ideas. A single chart does not cut it. It should be several charts divided into defined eras. I think we are being a little hard on the USA here though by continuing to point out the USA gets an "automatic" berth in the LLWS. That may be true but there are also other
887:
I think that since the individual tournament pages up to 1986 use the term Taiwan and the red and blue flag, that the main page should use the term Taiwan and the red and blue flag up to 1986,(honestly Taiwan should be used all the time but that is just my opinion.) Also another idea is to create a
828:
There's another point I wanted to bring up though: the use of Republic of China, Taiwan, and Chinese Taipei. All the LLWS results before 1987 list it as simply Taiwan, which makes sense since Taiwan is the common name for the Republic of China. I think it would be fine to just use "Taiwan" but link
748:
I undid my own reverts for the years in which the name "Chinese Taipei" was used, since I was clearly in error in doing so. The rest of the years probably need further discussion as changing the older versions would seem to amount to political revisionism, regardless of whether the LLWS has already
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presents the winners is that in the cases of Taiwan, not every instance is shown only as "Taiwan"; there is Taipei-Chinese Taipei, Tainan-Chinese Taipei, Kao Ksiung-Chinese Taipei, and others. If the article is sticking to a strict "state / province / district of origin" accounting of the winners,
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most titles, that would be ideal. Moreover, I feel that firstly on the table that shows the tallies of championships, the U.S. should absolutely be represented with a dash (-) to show that they have the unofficial most and Taiwan still has the most, and second and lastly, that for the first column
1464:
Little League attempts to present this as a world event celebrating fairness and sportsmanship. However, this "world" series guarantees a spot in the title game for a US team. Allows at least half of the competing teams to be from the United States, most years the majority of teams are from the US
1109:
I am pretty sure that LLWS changed from Taiwan to Chinese Taipei when ABC did, which would have been in 1984, as that is when the IOC started using the term, and ABC probably didn't want to confuse people (or possibly upset the IOC, which was glad to have Beijing finally competing) by calling them
1056:
Well, you can tell for sure which one was written first and which one was written later: the ones 1906cubs mentioned look like scanned in results/brackets (and are dated at latest 1999), while the ones Tampabay721 mentioned were typed later (dated 2002, based on the year stamp). I thought the main
1508:
Let's take everything you state at face value. Then take into account the fact that there are about 2,200,000 Little League players in the USA. In the rest of the world there are less than 130,000 players. California, I am guessing the largest state playing with around 25000 teams, yet it has to
843:
The thing about Chinese Taipei vs. Taiwan/ROC is something I brought up last year, (see the section above this one). The problem I was having that I knew the LLWS didn't always refer to Taiwanese teams as Chinese Taipei. However "Chinese Taipei" is listed as the winner for every championship the
636:
list on the LLWS website mentions all the Taiwanese teams as "Chinese Taipei", but most of the LLWS-related articles on Knowledge (XXG) still refer to them as Taiwan (especially because they sometimes get reverted to back to Taiwan when they had been Chinese Taipei), including this very article.
3185:
Thank you for clarifying that. I think we are obviously past the debate on if the U.S. is recognized as a team or not. So I feel the real problem we still have while debating is determining if since the tournament is a little biased towardsthe United States, should their championships still be
3031:
each country is expected to face it in order to draw up a balance sheet for fairness here. The World Series is setup in such a way so as to ensure that the final match-up is between the US and a foreign country. Imagine if the series were held in Japan and the rules regarding when fully formed
2777:
I believe that in both the header which indicates the country with most titles, and in the championship tally section, that the United States should be added as a recognized team. The United States as an overall country in this tournament have won 35 titles. On the opening header, the country
502:
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as
304:- The page should not be moved into this page, which is on the Little League World Series in general, not just the 1992 event. Rather, there is precedent on this subject to create individual pages for the specific tournaments - 2000, 2005 and 2006 have their own Knowledge (XXG) pages, titled
2746:
Just a follow up, i re edited the page. The table that tallies the championships should be kept the same, however, please change the top column on the front page accordingly to make it look better. I tried my best to make some kind of comprise but I can use some work. Thanks in advance lol.
2013:
I'm not informed on exactly what happened around 1975, other than there seemed to be accusations, investigations and decisions that occurred that, for better or worse, were extremely important to the history of the LLWS. Perhaps a paragraph or two outlining this time period would be fitting,
1492:
Seeing the data it is clear that at the beginning of the 2 park era the games were evenly split, with the International side even playing more games in Lamade. However, it should be noted that many of the Lamade games that the international side gets are at the beginning of each session, the
785:
First off, I would remove the US vs. International table completely. Then what about just removing the United States from the "All countries" table and making it international teams only, and keep that table seperate from the table of U.S. states? Also for the infobox, it would read Chinese
2668:
I'm open to discuss the edits being made on the LLWS wikipedia page. In the table that tallies the championships, I feel the US as a country should be represented on the table. I put the U.S. rank on the table with a dash (-), meaning that they aren't apart of the ranking but have the most
2961:
Can you please bring forth any references or sources that show the "United States" as a represented team? The current article does not support that. All the news media, references, and sources portray it as U.S. state vs international country — and that is what we follow. This includes
3271:
Please show some proof as to where i am using sock puppets. I told you the 68 IP was me and was an accident as I hadn't realized that I wasn't logged in. Please go out and make a case and accuse me for using sock puppets again just so you can be proven wrong again. I'd love to see the
3464:
If I'm understanding the new double-elimination format with 10 US and 10 international teams correctly, the 4 US and 4 international teams that play on the first day appear to be at a competitive disadvantage, because they have to win one more game to advance to the championship.
3200:
I was just saying if you counted Taiwanese districts the same way as states, you'd begin to see a table that looks quite different, with Taipei winning 20 and not 59 as the table states. But I dont see anything wrong with creating a third table that shows championships by country
637:
Doesn't this mean Taiwan should be referred to as Chinese Taipei on all the LLWS articles? As far as I know, every Taiwanese team in an international competition, such as the Olympics or the World Baseball Classic, goes by Chinese Taipei because they have to.
1173:
I think it would be great to add a US bar at the top for the winners table, perhaps with the US name italicized and rank given as just a dash. Similar to how the EU is listed in tables that also include EU countries. The addition would look like this: | — ||
3186:
recognized. I can defend this point but before I do, I was wondering if you have any specific things to point out about any debate issues? If you now agree with my points and proposal then that’s wonderful, but if not what concerns do you still have if any?
657:
I know many of you cannot understand the relation between Chinese Taipei and Taiwan has how much different to others.Taiwan is not so popular now, if you still use "Chinese Taipei" to replace "Taiwan" in the title "country", it'll be a big disaster.
1390:
Sure, we can wait for more input from other people, as this thread was specifically created to address that U.S. bias, but there is currently no consensus here for your change. Simply put, there is no team called "United States" represented, even on
3074:
That still ignores the fact that it was a U.S.-only tournament for decades, and the years where international teams were banned. So it simply does not make sense to add up the United States. No other sources do either, including the LLWS itself.
652:
But you should understand that "Taiwan" is a "Country" that "Chinese Taipei" is a "Team" and as we know Taiwan is not a part of China.If you use "team"for title then you can write Chinese Taipei but if is "Country",you'd better say
2022:
The Champions list current has Calexico, CA as the runner-up to Seoul in 1985. However, the team is listed as being from Mexicali, Mexico because it advanced via California tournaments, so shouldn't that town be the one listed?
308:, etc. I would suggest that the page regarding the 1992 controversy be moved to a new page dedicated just to the 1992 Little League World Series, on which other information could be added if other Wikipedians wish to expand it.--
3316:
at the least the United States should be represented on the table? The main question of this proposed change is in your opinion do you agree that the United States should be represented as team considering everything said above?
1443:
Do you think the futility of the US teams was the result of their abilities or does the fact Taiwan dropped out of LLWS for five years after LL stated it would enforce the age and pool regulations make other factors relevent.
3284:
Just popped by this article and the table of past winners is a bit strange. Those state flags are ridiculous and should not be there at all. I was looking at most result sources and the Little League page itself, and
3249:
Spintendo never said the "US" was considered a team, that's why he put the name in quotes. Quit taking things out of context and follow what the sources say. Editwarring with IP sockpuppets is not helping your case.
3026:
You've said that the chart as it is structured is unduly unfair to the country of the United States because it counts their wins separately. But you have to look closely at what each country is expected to face and
1399:, call it by the states. Knowledge (XXG) goes by what sources and references say, and the article reflects that. It's simply how the tournament is formatted and set up. Trying to say otherwise would be POV-pushing.
2714:, you need to establish consensus before reinserting your unilateral changes. There is no team called "United States". There is a reason why this tournament is split into TWO brackets, that means there will
902:
I agree that it should be used up until 1986, but Taiwan shouldn't be used anymore because the team doesn't compete as Taiwan anymore, just like the nation doesn't compete as Taiwan in the Olympics or the
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allows thousands of spectators. Volunteer looks like a normal little league field by comparison. With this in mind, look at the stadium assingments for pool play games on the International and US sides.
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The LLWS website shows the creation of a new Europe region, split off from the EMEA (now just MEA, presumably for Middle East and Africa). Transatlantic has disappeared. Does anyone know the details?
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Kirkland, Washington. So the consensus last year ended up being to just list any Taiwanese participant prior to 1981 as being from Taiwan/ROC, and those from 1981 to the present as Chinese Taipei.
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is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge (XXG) policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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There should be section on critics of the LLWS. Many believe that it puts too much pressure on the kids, and gives viewers who are kids the wrong impression of what sports should be.
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be a team from the United States in final, which will be uneven to the other teams if you add them all up. It also includes results of when it only a U.S.-exclusive event.
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end didn't have to make all the necessary sacrifices that the other countries had to make. It had a free pass all the way through the end of the Series' penultimate game.
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wiki page dedicated to the dominance of Taiwan and their history in the LLWS and other international tournaments. I say this because i see that mexico has a similar page.
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exists because Mexico is its own region but had other teams compete as the winner of the Latin America region prior to the expansion to 16 teams in 2001. It's similar to
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with expat teams from overseas. This event seems great on the surface, but when one looks into the details the outcome of large bias in favor of the US is unmistakable.
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I just wish there was a way to watch the games from the 80s and 90s to see what they were referred to as, instead of all this ambiguity from littleleague.org, haha.
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place at the end, Japan would then go on to play whichever other country had won their series and they'd go on to either win or lose the last game. Every year,
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3123:. And the Olympics has always been referred to by their national teams, which multiple countries has always participated. The two are not comparable at all.
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Ah, I see now, should have read the rest of the Discussion page before bringing this up. I looked through the results individually (on the LLWS site, e.g.
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be a team from the United States in final, which will be uneven to the other teams if you add them all up. It also does not make any sense to cite other
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People have rejected this in the past but I think it does improve Knowledge (XXG) by making the information about when the US won that much clearer.
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That's something I think would be appropriate. As an example, that appears to be what has been done for the nation's olympic teams (See how
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Clearly one contradicts the other, but considering it's still a post-1986 tournament, I think they should still be called Chinese Taipei.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110620145508/http://www.littleleague.org/media/newsarchive/2011/May-Aug/2011LLBBWSScheduleAnnounced.htm
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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https://web.archive.org/20100419053041/http://www.littleleague.org:80/media/newsarchive/2010/Jan-Apr/FormatChangeToLLBBWSFor2010.htm
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Kentucky is listed for winning the 1989 LLWS. It was actually Trumbull CT, led by NHL star Chris Drury, who won the 1989 LLWS.
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The winning and losing teams were reversed. I've switched them back to show Japan as the winning team based on this article:
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Thank you, hopefully more people can come and express their opinion so it can be solved. But again thanks for the feed back.
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Why are international & us brackets separated? This seems to favor that a U.S. team will always play in the championship
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http://www.littleleague.org/media/newsarchive/2011/May-Aug/ESPN3DAddsLittleLeagueWorldSeriesGamestoitsBroadcastSchedule.htm
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http://www.espn.com/llws/story/_/id/24485001/hawaii-defeats-south-korea-2018-little-league-world-series-championship-game
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There is currently no consensus for this. Also because this tournament is split into TWO brackets, that means there will
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Can someone please add noteworthy events about Gavin Weir? He has been phenomenal in the Little League World Series.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Shouldn't it be "4 states" that don't crown a state champion: California, Texas, S. Dakota, and N. Dakota?
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100817102629/http://www.littleleague.org/learn/about/worldserieshistory.htm
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Perhaps more emphasis on the circumstance that led to the 1975 international ban and rescinding the ban?
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Seems that Little League has taken this "risk" by doing so already, as I've shown in the provided link.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Agreed. At least we're in the internet era and not digging through archives in a public library, lol. -
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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under
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country, but I feel that would be too long. For example, the 2009 elimination round would show as:
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which contains no less than 12 separate tables, you get the feeling that no one is arguing for an
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https://web.archive.org/20090501222249/http://www.littleleague.org:80/media/2009llbbseriesinfo.htm
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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accepted it, it needs to be examined in the context of our own guidelines on naming and NPOV.
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I agree with this 100%. Can we make a consensus about this so it can be changed on the page.
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Just curious why Cody Bellenger isn’t listed. They have shown him playing in the LLWS. Thx
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3289:. Using them here, just because we can, is not proper. If you look at the Little League's
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http://www.littleleague.org/media/newsarchive/2011/May-Aug/2011LLBBWSScheduleAnnounced.htm
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http://www.littleleague.org/media/newsarchive/2010/Jan-Apr/FormatChangeToLLBBWSFor2010.htm
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https://web.archive.org/20071030224248/http://www.littleleague.org/media/tv_lineup_07.asp
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Um, I'd like to see some concrete evidence of this, as I've never heard of them before.
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http://www.littleleague.org/media/newsarchive/2012/May-Aug/RegionsRealignedfor2013WS.htm
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I put Chinese Taipei back in the infobox because they are the same team, after all.
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Not complaining on how it is, just curious of the history that set it up this way
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2601:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
2491:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
2371:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
2243:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
2115:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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Lets say that's true and I completely agree with you. However, please see
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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championships. This same kind of situation can be seen on the GDP page
3213:. So one more should be fine, as long as editors here agree. Regards,
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shouldn't that also be reflected under Taiwan as it is for US states?
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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count even though the states compete under the name United States.
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Knowledge (XXG) article constitutes fair use. In addition to the
3119:. Also the fact that it's just one source, you have to consider
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US games played in Lamade-6-7-5-5-9-10-6-9-8-13-12-12- Total=102
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Maybe I'm missing the point, but, shouldn't the links go to the
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http://www.littleleague.org/learn/about/worldserieshistory.htm
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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Chinese Taipei at the Olympics and then Taiwan at the LLWS.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
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International games Lamade-5-5-6-6-5-4-5-5-5-2-3-4-Total=55
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country teams were required to play and against whom were
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Int games in Volunteer-7-7-6-6-7-8-6-7-7-10-9-9- Total=89
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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http://www.littleleague.org/media/2009llbbseriesinfo.htm
2726:. Using IP sockpuppets isn't going to help you either.
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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US games in Volunteer-6-5-7-7-3-2-5-3-4-1-1-1- Total=45
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Taipei/Taiwan with 17 for the "most titles" parameter.
1395:. All the news media, references, sources, as well as
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But the winning team often doesn't have an article. --
212:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
101:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
2605:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2495:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2375:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2247:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2119:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
507:. If you have any questions please ask them at the
3460:Are opening matchups in 20-team format randomized?
2217:http://www.littleleague.org/media/tv_lineup_07.asp
993:they were called Chinese Taipei in 1994 and 1995.
448:Fair use rationale for Image:LittleLeagueLogo.jpg
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374:Seeing no objection I changed 3 exceptions to 4
2591:This message was posted before February 2018.
2481:This message was posted before February 2018.
2361:This message was posted before February 2018.
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2105:This message was posted before February 2018.
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3445:Drew Storen needs added to pro players list
497:Knowledge (XXG):Fair use rationale guideline
726:is used for their teams prior to 1979, and
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2561:I have just modified one external link on
2311:I have just modified one external link on
728:Chinese Taipei at the 1984 Summer Olympics
419:And probably doesn't deserve one, either.
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2441:I have just modified 2 external links on
700:According to the Knowledge (XXG) page on
606:Thanks for the heads up, it is fixed now
917:Canada in the Little League World Series
909:Mexico in the Little League World Series
765:Championship Tally- US vs. International
115:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Pennsylvania
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730:is used once their boycott ended).
38:It is of interest to the following
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2964:the official LLWS website present
2565:. Please take a moment to review
2445:. Please take a moment to review
2315:. Please take a moment to review
2187:. Please take a moment to review
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306:2000 Little League World Series
302:1992 Little League World Series
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509:Media copyright questions page
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1679:August 27 – 4:00 pm – Lamade
1590:August 26 – 4:00 pm – Lamade
1532:Region name vs. Country/State
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759:22:50, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
478:boilerplate fair use template
268:This article is supported by
229:Template:WikiProject Baseball
220:and see a list of open tasks.
109:and see a list of open tasks.
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505:criteria for speedy deletion
415:12:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
391:01:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
271:the Little League task force
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3113:WP:Verifiability, not truth
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1016:I was using these brackets
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724:at the 1976 Winter Olympics
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2983:Senior League World Series
2979:Junior League World Series
2736:10:04, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
2722:Knowledge (XXG) pages per
2622:(last update: 5 June 2024)
2563:Little League World Series
2558:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
2512:(last update: 5 June 2024)
2443:Little League World Series
2438:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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2313:Little League World Series
2308:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
2264:(last update: 5 June 2024)
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2185:Little League World Series
2180:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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2047:Little League World Series
2042:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1631:August 29 – Noon – Lamade
1600:
1525:08:37, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
1091:23:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
1070:23:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
1052:23:17, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
1031:23:13, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
1010:22:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
984:22:29, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
962:22:25, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
489:the image description page
461:Image:LittleLeagueLogo.jpg
440:23:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
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803:21:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
780:20:16, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
575:19:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
554:19:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
491:and edit it to include a
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313:18:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
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1460:More evidence of US Bias
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470:explanation or rationale
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3121:WP:Due and undue weight
3105:WP:No original research
2987:Big League World Series
2554:External links modified
2434:External links modified
2304:External links modified
2176:External links modified
2038:External links modified
3525:Little League articles
3468:Based on this article
1021:They call them Taiwan.
905:World Baseball Classic
456:
264:
28:This article is rated
3291:own list of champions
2969:. This also includes
952:reason to use Taiwan.
844:country has ever won
628:Taiwan/Chinese Taipei
472:as to why its use in
455:
263:
121:Pennsylvania articles
32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
2971:our very own article
2603:regular verification
2493:regular verification
2373:regular verification
2245:regular verification
2230:to let others know.
2191:. If necessary, add
2117:regular verification
2102:to let others know.
2053:. If necessary, add
343:Updated 1999 results
318:I agree. Go for it.
209:WikiProject Baseball
2724:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
2593:After February 2018
2483:After February 2018
2363:After February 2018
2342:parameter below to
2235:After February 2018
2226:parameter below to
2107:After February 2018
2098:parameter below to
1060:Thoughts? Thanks! -
300:to new page titled
90:Pennsylvania portal
3331:to paraphrase the
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1184:United States
1179:
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1141:
1134:
1130:
1125:
1121:
1117:
1113:
1108:
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1102:
1098:
1097:Multivariable
1094:
1093:
1092:
1088:
1087:
1082:
1081:
1078:
1073:
1072:
1071:
1067:
1063:
1062:Multivariable
1059:
1055:
1054:
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1049:
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1043:
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1039:
1034:
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1032:
1028:
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918:
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906:
901:
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899:
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891:
886:
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884:
880:
876:
875:Multivariable
872:
869:
868:
867:
863:
862:
857:
856:
853:
847:
842:
841:
840:
836:
832:
831:Multivariable
827:
823:
822:
821:
817:
813:
808:
807:
804:
800:
799:
794:
793:
790:
784:
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773:
764:
760:
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747:
746:
741:
737:
733:
729:
725:
721:
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718:
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651:
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623:
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619:
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579:
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568:
559:
555:
551:
547:
543:
542:
541:
538:
534:
530:
520:
518:
517:
514:
510:
506:
503:described on
500:
498:
494:
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487:Please go to
485:
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467:
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462:
454:
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429:
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424:
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395:
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385:
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375:
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342:
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335:
330:
328:
323:
317:
316:
315:
314:
311:
307:
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299:
292:
277:
274:(assessed as
273:
272:
262:
258:
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219:
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191:
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177:
170:
169:Little League
165:
162:
159:
155:
142:
138:
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129:
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125:
108:
104:
100:
99:
91:
80:
78:
75:
71:
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66:
60:
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50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
3467:
3463:
3444:
3429:
3410:
3391:
3372:
3332:
3283:
3214:
3210:
3202:
3163:
3159:LLWS website
3149:
3046:
3041:
3037:
3033:
3028:
2937:— Preceding
2933:
2787:
2776:
2749:— Preceding
2745:
2719:
2715:
2686:— Preceding
2683:
2680:
2674:
2667:
2645:
2642:
2617:source check
2596:
2590:
2587:
2560:
2557:
2535:
2532:
2507:source check
2486:
2480:
2477:
2440:
2437:
2415:
2412:
2387:source check
2366:
2360:
2347:
2343:
2339:
2337:
2310:
2307:
2284:
2259:source check
2238:
2232:
2227:
2223:
2221:
2182:
2179:
2156:
2131:source check
2110:
2104:
2099:
2095:
2093:
2044:
2041:
2021:
2012:
1970:
1918:
1893:
1844:
1795:
1717:
1695:
1646:
1538:
1535:
1519:— Preceding
1491:
1487:
1486:
1482:
1481:
1477:
1476:
1472:
1471:
1467:
1463:
1426:
1358:
1325:
1183:
1172:
1138:— Preceding
1112:That Don Guy
1085:
1079:
1076:
1046:
1040:
1037:
1004:
998:
995:
978:
972:
969:
950:
930:
924:
921:
860:
854:
851:
797:
791:
788:
768:
656:
631:
610:
592:24.2.251.142
583:
563:
524:
511:. Thank you.
501:
486:
473:
459:
458:
426:
421:
397:
384:winning team
383:
381:
373:
359:
356:
346:
326:
297:
296:
269:
247:
207:
136:
112:Pennsylvania
103:Pennsylvania
96:
59:Pennsylvania
40:WikiProjects
2354:Sourcecheck
1903:Third place
1554:Semi-finals
732:Tampabay721
684:Tampabay721
660:—Preceding
639:Tampabay721
586:—Preceding
567:Megarockman
546:Megarockman
527:—Preceding
422:Matt Yeager
3489:Categories
3369:Gavin Weir
3351:ANTbook365
3318:ANTbook365
3237:ANTbook365
3218:spintendo
3188:ANTbook365
3167:spintendo
3111:(see also
3091:ANTbook365
3062:ANTbook365
3050:spintendo
3014:ANTbook365
2985:, and the
2943:ANTbook365
2755:ANTbook365
2692:ANTbook365
2675:unofficial
2654:Report bug
2544:Report bug
2424:Report bug
1920:California
1894:California
1796:California
1378:ANTbook365
1345:ANTbook365
388:Trekphiler
3231:Spintendo
3181:Spintendo
2791:|| 35 ||
2720:unrelated
2637:this tool
2630:this tool
2527:this tool
2520:this tool
2407:this tool
2400:this tool
2279:this tool
2272:this tool
2151:this tool
2144:this tool
1187:|| 34 ||
706:Jojorocko
614:<: -->
608:Ruhrfisch
366:Nysports
353:3 states?
310:DaveOinSF
3267:Kiwifist
3252:Kiwifist
3207:this one
3153:Kiwifist
3125:Kiwifist
3077:Kiwifist
3034:reversed
2991:Kiwifist
2967:and past
2951:contribs
2939:unsigned
2763:contribs
2751:unsigned
2728:Kiwifist
2700:contribs
2688:unsigned
2643:Cheers.—
2533:Cheers.—
2413:Cheers.—
2285:Cheers.—
2195:cbignore
2157:Cheers.—
2057:cbignore
1816:New York
1511:BAFRIEND
1495:1906cubs
1446:BAFRIEND
1430:1906cubs
1401:Kiwifist
1363:Kiwifist
1152:contribs
1144:BAFRIEND
1140:unsigned
1129:BAFRIEND
1077:Tampabay
1038:Tampabay
1023:1906cubs
996:Tampabay
970:Tampabay
954:1906cubs
922:Tampabay
890:1906cubs
852:Tampabay
812:1906cubs
789:Tampabay
772:1906cubs
662:unsigned
588:unsigned
529:unsigned
482:fair use
466:fair use
378:Go team!
361:Nysports
223:Baseball
214:baseball
164:Baseball
3473:Jbening
3038:secured
2567:my edit
2447:my edit
2340:checked
2317:my edit
2295::Online
2224:checked
2189:my edit
2167::Online
2096:checked
2051:my edit
1950:Georgia
1749:Curaçao
1521:undated
653:Taiwan.
632:So the
521:Critics
250:on the
139:on the
30:C-class
3272:proof.
2716:always
2712:WP:BRD
2348:failed
2203:nobots
2065:nobots
1971:Mexico
1669:Mexico
1648:Mexico
1359:always
751:Triona
400:Howard
333:Lancer
321:Search
36:scale.
3117:WP:OR
3042:other
1995:Texas
1867:Texas
1846:Texas
1620:Japan
1559:Final
613:: -->
434:Talk?
3477:talk
3451:talk
3437:talk
3417:talk
3398:talk
3379:talk
3355:talk
3341:talk
3322:talk
3299:talk
3256:talk
3241:talk
3203:only
3192:talk
3129:talk
3095:talk
3081:talk
3066:talk
3029:when
3018:talk
2995:talk
2947:talk
2929:2018
2925:2016
2921:2011
2917:2009
2913:2008
2909:2007
2905:2006
2901:2005
2897:2002
2893:1998
2889:1993
2885:1992
2881:1989
2877:1983
2873:1982
2869:1975
2865:1970
2861:1966
2857:1965
2853:1964
2849:1963
2845:1962
2841:1961
2837:1960
2833:1959
2829:1956
2825:1955
2821:1954
2817:1953
2813:1952
2809:1951
2805:1950
2801:1949
2797:1948
2793:1947
2759:talk
2732:talk
2710:Per
2696:talk
2664:LLWS
2344:true
2228:true
2100:true
2029:talk
1515:talk
1499:talk
1450:talk
1434:talk
1405:talk
1382:talk
1367:talk
1349:talk
1332:talk
1321:2016
1317:2011
1313:2009
1309:2008
1305:2007
1301:2006
1297:2005
1293:2002
1289:1998
1285:1993
1281:1992
1277:1989
1273:1983
1269:1982
1265:1975
1261:1970
1257:1966
1253:1965
1249:1964
1245:1963
1241:1962
1237:1961
1233:1960
1229:1959
1225:1956
1221:1955
1217:1954
1213:1953
1209:1952
1205:1951
1201:1950
1197:1949
1193:1948
1189:1947
1148:talk
1133:talk
1116:talk
1101:talk
1086:talk
1066:talk
1047:talk
1027:talk
1005:talk
979:talk
958:talk
931:talk
915:and
894:talk
879:talk
861:talk
835:talk
816:talk
798:talk
776:talk
755:talk
736:talk
710:talk
688:talk
670:talk
643:talk
596:talk
571:talk
550:talk
537:talk
474:this
410:Duck
298:Move
2931:|-
2799:,
2611:RfC
2581:to
2501:RfC
2471:to
2461:to
2381:RfC
2358:).
2346:or
2331:to
2253:RfC
2215:to
2125:RfC
2087:to
2077:to
1954:10
1941:A1
1925:11
1910:B2
1898:12
1836:B1
1807:A2
1740:C1
1709:D2
1638:D1
1611:C2
1539:and
1323:|-
1195:,
1080:721
1041:721
999:721
973:721
925:721
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792:721
405:the
242:Mid
131:Mid
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