Talk:List of Doctor Who Christmas and New Year's specials

2045:

sourced. With these specials, there have been addition specials, i.e. Planet of the Dead, The Waters of Mars, and Day of the Doctor. But these three specials are not part of the tradition of having a special annually. That is the reason why I believe that putting Christmas and New Year's Day specials together is not arbitrary, and therefore I believe there is no reason to change the name of this article to emcompass all specials ever, and therefore change the purpose (that DonQuixote confirmed) of this article. This article was designed for a specific type of special, and Resolution is the same type of special (i.e. it's part of the annual tradition), so should therefore be included in the article, but this addition (and the necessitated page move to "Christmas and New Year's specials") did not change the purpose of this article IMO. --

2512:, not an ad-hoc patchwork idea (first Christmas; then Christmas and New Year; in four years time, perhaps Christmas, Boxing Day and New Year). That rule is to list all specials, rather than singling out arbitrary dates based on personal feeling. At that point, I argue that we should categorise specials by holiday rather than chronologically, but you argue otherwise; that isn't an argument against a list of specials, merely an argument about how such a list of specials should be organised. And that's a debate you could probably convince me in—listing by Doctors seems just as sensible as by dates. (In fact, I'm sure a sortable table could achieve both.) 2918:

excluding other special episodes from the article - is debatable. Several editors above have pointed out that future scheduling is unknown, and between-series specials could air at any time of year - and also that the scheduling of specials has previously been irregular when the 2008-10 period is taken into account. It has also been pointed out that the production circumstances of the specials differ - some have been made during filming for a full series, some separately. I would add that their narrative function differs considerably also: some are entirely standalone stories, some contribute essentially to ongoing narrative arcs.

2288:)? Annual but occasionally biannual is not a consistent definition, and this is shook further by the fact that those two episodes are part of a series of 5 specials from 2008-10, so since the dates seem to be fungible (if the distinction between Christmas and New Year is irrelevant on the grounds that the event is annual), what makes these 2 of 5 specials the ones that should be categorised alongside the other specials? Then there's also the question of what makes the 704: 677: 2654:, which are linked by production circumstances and many secondary sources. These specials and the Christmas specials are both part of the broader category of 'Doctor Who specials', with some overlaps (The Next Doctor/The End of Time). As I've said, the Christmas day specials can (and were) justified as a notable categorisation, but when you add in "Resolution" it becomes very hard to justify excluding the other specials from the list. (Fun fact: " 645: 190: 275: 551: 2341:

Christmas specials"), because it's the second part to the annual Christmas special of 2009, so hence it's always been in this list. Therefore, the definition I gave is consistant. And regarding "Feast of Steven" and "Volcano", we only mention those plus some other classic episodes because they happened to air on 25 December or 1 January, but we do not list them as there was a consensus to the fact they were not specials. --

327: 306: 621: 1239:, presumably in response to the announcement of the 2019 New Year special. While I have no objection to this decision, it could now be considered inconsistent with how classic Doctor Who is represented. It currently mentions The Feast of Steven as being the only classic episode to air on Christmas day, however it does not mention a number of classic episodes which aired on New Year's Day: 780: 2454:

up. Note that it's no accident that the two parts aired on festive dates—Christmas and New Year's Day—and so these dates are integral to the episodes' nature, not an arbitrary method of categorisation. To display them next to each other is to miss this piece of information. Please do not describe another editor's hard efforts as "horrendous". I recommend that you strike that adjective.

714: 420: 399: 541: 510: 430: 1380:" was specifically written for Christmas, which is referenced several times - and not just at the very end. It's a standalone episode, sharing none of the cast (bar the three regulars) with the other eleven. It would have been an incomprehensible jar to the plot had it been scheduled for any other day of the year: if you listen to eleven out of twelve episodes of 1828:, but a good faith suggestion. The Christmas episodes have a special place in the legacy and overall pattern of the show. Moving them a few days ahead to the next holiday season holiday - New Year's Day - keeps the specials within the unique holiday special and holidays-oriented storyline presentations, and allows the franchise to continue that ongoing theme. 1507:

deserves a special mention because of the nature of that episode in contrast to the rest of Dalek Master Plan. The three new years day episodes though, are probably best left as briefer mentions, because they were just regular episodes that happened to fall on new years day rather than special episodes designed to air on new years day (/christmas day).

3408:"Christmas TV schedule" does not necessarily mean "Christmas Day" or a "Christmas special". A source needs to explicitly state this its airdate to be included. And "however it is yet to be confirmed if it will be broadcast on Christmas Day"? Since when do we include the lack of a confirmation of something on Knowledge, especially an airdate? -- 1899:

Anyone else may want to add the supplementary episodes. Also, nobody has said that "that annual Christmas day specials are no longer" - we only have a source stating that 2018's Christmas Special was moved to 2019's New Year's Special. Can you support that they're permanently moved? But, no. This article is for the festive specials. --

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Christmas Day (however, again, it was just regular episodes that happened to air on Christmas Day), but it specifically references Christmas Day itself with the fourth-wall-breaking interlude at the end of the episode. I'm thinking, table-wise, we only include 2005 onwards, and we simply cover the four classic era episodes in prose. --

1976:. You were quite right to revert those changes, as they created an overlapping article without any attempt to fit into the project or discuss. I'm working on a sandbox draft of the proposed changes, which I will post here, otherwise (unless further direct questions are asked of me) I'll step away and let the discussion progress now. 3431:

This article is "List of Doctor Who Christmas and New Year's specials" not "List of Doctor Who Christmas Day specials". We have multiple sources referring to this as either a "festive episode" or "festive special", and multiple editors who think it should be included. The phrase "however it is yet to

3371:

Reasonably put. Having looked around the various articles and structure in the course of this proposal, I think there are multiple improvements to be made. Taking the views here into account, I will raise any suggestions on the project page for discussion before making any edits - but only after this

2378:: it's very arbitrary to pick Christmas and New Year in isolation when there has also been an Easter special; that means this isn't listing all festive episodes or all episodes made for a religious holiday or all date-based episodes, but simply cherry-picking two types of specials from a bigger pile. 2101:

I moved the article as "Resolution" was already included before it was announced to be a New Year's Day special, and since the move was a mere week from Christmas to New Year's, the episode was still counted as a festive special, was still listed here, and thus the title needed to reflect the change.

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I think the current layout is best. The End of Time was specifically advertised as a special for both its episodes - there are several sources for that, so it's not OR. The 'classic' episodes were not specials. I challenge anyone to find a source saying they were. I'd agree that 'feast of steven'

2503:

And your preferred version groups a New Year's Day special ("Resolution") alongside Christmas specials, when the special alludes specifically to New Year's Day (and New Year's Eve) but not in any way to Christmas. This is a nonsense akin to the one you're complaining about, as is the omission of the

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I saw no need for discussion; not everything needs discussion. A chance as big as what is proposed, yes, that would need discussion, as it changes the entire output of the article. And while I thank you for the work done in your sandbox, I have to say that such a split would be and look terrible. --

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those broadcast at other times of the year, are the specific notable tradition. Christmas Day itself you could justify, but that would mean closing the list off at "Twice Upon a Time". Lastly, it should be noted that the page was moved to the current title (and thus the scope of the article changed)

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I thought I'd make my reasons for opposition clearer; starting with 2005, there has been an annual special of Doctor Who, which was until 2017 broadcast on Christmas Day, and in 2018 broadcast on New Year's Day instead, the fact that the New Year's Day special replaced Christmas Day specials is well

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for Christmas specials, and has only recently been updated to add the newly-changed New Year's special, and thus still only lists the end/start-of-year specials. If it's just titled as "specials", where do we stop? Every special ever? Easter? What about other editors that add the 2008–2010 specials?

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fans, special indeed. This was never meant to be a page to lump together all the old specials with the new tradition, it is an article about a unique Doctor Who eagerly waited-for and anticipated phenomena: the Christmas special. Which is now the Christmas and New Years Day special. Written, acted,

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broadcast a special episode on Christmas Day every year between 2005 and 2017 inclusive. There is no doubt that this is a noteworthy tradition among the show's special episodes. However, from just one year on a different date the justification of "Resolution" as part of this tradition - while still

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Forgive me for the error. Eleventh. In answer to your question: the episodes aired separately. There's no way to simultaneous satisfy every natural system of categorisation (by day of the year; chronologically; by story arcs etc.) and so in this case we should compromise by splitting one two-parter

1925:

Please read my full proposal above, where I address most of your comments. You are correct that we don't know it is a permanent change, slight hyperbole from me above I apologise - which I maintain is all the more reason the article should have the capacity to include future specials, whenever they

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From my understanding, by special we mean non-regular episode, so the three classic episodes we've mentioned aren't specials, they just aired that day, but TEoT pt. 2 isn't a regular episode, so by that reasoning, isn't that a New Year special. Or is that OR? In any case, surely TEoT pt.2 should be

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was suggesting that the scope of the article be widened (and the article be renamed) to include all specials. This would mean the addition of The Five Doctors (1983), Planet of the Dead (2009), The Waters of Mars (2009), The Day of the Doctor (2013), and arguably the TV Movie (1996). Surely a "List

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is correct to state that production circumstances differ between different specials - 2012 and 2016's Christmas specials, for instance, were made between episodes of series 7(b) and 10, while 2013's was produced entirely separately. Children in Need and other similar episodes are currently list at

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Indeed, it groups festive specials together, as the episode was traditionally an annual Christmas special that was specifically moved. "Planet of the Dead" as a singular special, not an annual one, nor was any other special. Can you back up the fact that there will be a Boxing Day special? I can't

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Sorry, I've just noticed your message which may have been a reply to mine. The annual tradition has not been interupted since 2005. And the End of Time pt.2 is not part of the annual tradition; it's been listed here since the article was created (and when the article was called "List of Doctor Who

2073:

It seems my initial proposal wasn't clear, that I am well aware that the article was designed to list festive specials only. I am suggesting that is scope is altered in light of recent changes. The apposite question for commenters here is therefore not 'what is the article (as is) for?', but 'what

1203:

Bit late to the party. This would not be necessary; Knowledge is an encyclopedia, not simply a site to list everything we can think of. The 2009 and 2013 episodes already exist on articles detailing the specials, leaving only the two classic episodes. This is an article for the Christmas specials

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And yet, they were grouped together as a serial by title, by production, and by release, including being included on The 10 Christmas Specials home media release (yes, despite that it was a New Year's special). No information is being missed - the dates clearly indicate that they were released on

2255:

But it's not really two types of special and arbitrary; there both festive specials, which since 2005, have featured annually. The 2019 New Year's special replaced the Christmas special for 2018 (as cited by reliable sources). The other specials aren't regualar specials i.e. there isn't an annual

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part one are segments of the story that continues with the following episode seamlessly. There is nothing at all in these two episodes to suggest that the date is 1 January, or that it is New Year's Day on the calendar. So I contend that whilst "The Feast of Steven" is indeed a Christmas special,

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to suggest that episodes shouldn't be on their list purely based on plot analysis. Maybe Feast of Steven could be reconsidered as a Christmas special worthy to be on this list; on one hand it is a regular episode, on the other hand, as you say, it references Christmas. Nevertheless, thank you for

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Such a bold removal will likely be reverted quite soon after. Yes, the standard practice is to group specials with the series on whose DVD release they were added to, but it makes little no no sense to go with this method of displaying specials and then not show two of them solely because of it.

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Reluctantly I feel I have to make one final comment before allowing the discussion to progress, as you have entirely misrepresented my previous comment. I mention those episodes precisely to demonstrate that narrative and production circumstances of Christmas/NY episodes are not exclusive to the

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any future cases (my wording made it clear that no Boxing Day special is planned but the "annual" specials have not fit a pattern of happening annually in the past and there's no reason to think they would start to do so from now onwards). Your "List of Doctor Who festive episodes" is a sensible

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Below is a short summary to delineate the matters raised in the above discussion, for the aid of any subsequent commenters and ultimately closers, with a couple of additional pertinent factual points not yet raised. Of course I am not without interest in this matter, so any editor is welcome to

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Now the article is at "Christmas and New Year's specials", the distinction between these and specials broadcast at other times of the year begins to feel extremely arbitrary. Expanding the remit seems to be the best way to avoid that bias, while allowing future New Year/Easter/whatever holiday

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They are just regular episodes that happened to air on New Year's Day, they were specials specifically planned for the day, unlike TEOT Part 2 and the 2019 special, and had no relationship to the day itself. "The Feast of Steven" was unique in that it was the only classic episode that aired on

2565:"...Christmas and New Year's specials" seems better for accuracy, as the respective holidays are mentioned and featured in every special. Probably best kept at the stable title (with, of course, New Year's added), although if conciseness is needed better to drop the unneeded "List of". 253: 204: 1670:– Reviving the above discussion and opening up to the wider project. Now that annual Christmas day specials are no longer, I believe it is worth reconsidering whether this article could better serve the project by naming all Doctor Who special episodes. This would include 3194:

Five Doctors mentioned to show that this article is arguably a better place for it to be listed than the ill-fitting season 20. Others struck out above to avoid distracting from the matter at hand; I'll be happy to discuss in the appropriate place when the time comes.

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My understanding of "The Feast of Steven" was that it was never meant to be a Christmas "special", just an episode that coincidentally aired on Christmas (same as DotD and TFoE for New Year's), and that the Christmas plot was effectively a hasty edition. Much like how

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Easter special, despite there being one as part of the 2008-10 specials. So groups of specials i.e. 2008-10 and 2013 are different from Christmas and New Year specials in the sense that the latter are annual and the former not. Mind you, what I don't see sense in is

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of Doctor Who specials" page giving detail on ALL special episodes in the same manner as individual season/series pages would be more useful than a page listing just Christmas specials which seems arbitrarily specific, particularly since these are all listed on

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Why not merge all the separate episode articles? What separation do you make between "special" episodes and "supplementary" episodes (originally "special" episodes). It should be noted that that page was moved to the current title also without discussion. --

1853:" especially - what exactly separates that as an Easter special from "Resolution" and even "The Return of Doctor Mysterio", all of which start on their respective holidays and then quickly move on? Is it the grouping of secondary sources you're referring to? 1990:

I'm certainly being civil. Just because I oppose your merge/change/rename... I'll take a look at the sandbox draft, and continue to strongly oppose the changes, so that this article continues to exist for the purpose that it was created for. Thank you. --

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to perform it, but to display that an article's scope can legitimately change under changed circumstances - and in this case, did so without objection very recently. I believe that that expansion of scope should be taken further, hence this proposal.

3250:(if you can manage to read the 2 month long and very circular discussion without falling asleep!). The discussion there resulted in the decision to include headers for Christmas specials and grouping season tables by boxset (the previous consensus 1262:

They make no reference to New Year, only airing on New Year's Day. The Feast of Steven is very much a comedy interlude, and directly references Christmas. Should these New Year episodes be included? If not, the article must be clear as to why.

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Even in that case it likely would not pass consensus as a merge. The 'Christmas' (and now 'Holiday') specials are too much of a separate "thing". They are considered by many, if not most (I would think most), as a stand-alone category of

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be." I think rescoping to include all "specials" is a reasonable move given all the arguments here. Christmas is important, of course, but putting all these "specials" in one place may be more relevant for our very specific purposes.

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Just to point out that there is absolutely nothing in the proposed changes that would prevent the Christmas or Christmas/New Year 'tradition' since 2005 being mentioned and cited, within the wider category of all Doctor Who specials.

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be confirmed if it will be broadcast on Christmas Day" was not in the version of the article you reverted before posting here, which suggests you are now reverting without first reading. "state this its airdate" cannot be parsed.

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But it’s not a "Christmas special" if it airs on New Year’s Day, no matter what you decide to call the "holiday season"—it’s either a "festive special” or a "New Year’s special". In any case, I’m glad Alex had the right idea. –

1805:. I invite all interested parties to view this, and would welcome any further contributions there. No substantial changes to the content of this page, but slight expansion that I think allows it to serve a much better purpose. 2676:? The film was released in May, 1996. May 1996 is five months after New Years Day, 1996 (at least in the dating system this discussion centers on). "The Water of Mars" was broadcast in mid-November, well before the recognized 2185:" and "Resolution" (which is not included in series 11's DVD/Blu-Ray/digital home media releases) to be solved - and allowing any future between-series specials to be included, whatever time of year they may appear at. 2983:

Agreed. I've never seen such a header before - any such summary should have been put in the original request. This seems like just an expanded attempt to sway and "overall" any discussion in a similar attempt to avoid

2206:- seems arbitrary to have two types of specials with their own article, and remaining specials elsewhere. I don't see a compelling reason for the split, and see the benefit to readers of housing all specials together 3171:

If it's not the place to discuss that, then why bring it up here? You intended to discuss the removals; let's discuss the removals. Where would they go, so that the layout confirms with previous series articles? --

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All addressed and/or answered above. I do not intend to propose a merger with the supplementary episodes list, but if someone else wished to that would have to come after this article's proposed move and refocus.

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Do any of our other lists cover these other specials? If so then we need to improve navigation to make the material a bit easier to find, and recast this as a merge request, which it (in that case) really is.

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Should "The Feast of Steven", which aired on 25 December 1965, be included in this category? The episode (which is sadly one of the 97 missing from the BBC Archive) aired as a sort of "cutaway" episode from

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This summary is just another long comment by the nominator, so it's a summary of their point of view. The strong tradition of the 2005 - present rendition to include an annual holiday special is, to many

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are perhaps separable from this set of full-length special episodes, but otherwise the page move and scope change seem very necessary—and have been for longer than the two days since "Resolution" aired.

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I agree that this article is designed for annual festive specials only, not just a list of every single special there has ever been. I admit I thought of this idea a few weeks ago, but I decided against

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Yes, part 1 is a Christmas special and part 2 is a New Year's special, but it's one story and we don't need to be pedantic about it and only list part 1 when we only have one article for both episodes.

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episodes currently listed, as they are shared by other specials broadcast at different times of year. Sorry if that wasn't clear, and I'd respectfully suggest that you follow your own advice and avoid

3581:

No, I am not "the one who used 'Christmas special' in the first place". No, I am not "arguing for the phrasing 'festive special'". We also know that Christmas ends in the first week of January. HTH.

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Probably, but it's so well hidden if we do, we might just as well not have it. So let's Google the rest of the Internet and put -Knowledge to cut out all that the noise, and that might tell us.

3076:, which I do not consider to be correct (no source for its inclusion there) and intend to boldly remove once this discussion has ended; the 1996 film is not listed anywhere other than the full 2636:

The others specials are not directly related to holidays, and what some of us are saying is that the holiday class of specials is a strong one, is a unit, and is worthy of a stand-alone page.

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continues to list charity mini-episodes, script to screen winners (short episodes written by school children), DVD special scenes, online 'prequels', sketches within other shows etc etc. My

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I read the full proposal. I continue to strongly oppose it, so that this article continues to be an article solely for the end/start-of-year specials. As you likely noticed, the edits at

3563:: the episode is a New Year's special, not Christmas. You seemed to be arguing for the phrasing "festive special", but you're the one who used "Christmas special" in the first place. – 1777: 1559: 1543: 3254:

was just to put the Christmas special with the next series). I say this because at the time Alex and I (known then as AlexTheWhovian and Theoosmond respectively) thought of having

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at the first Doctor/Clara episode, to me an epic arc in television history). If there is only that one more, maybe a consensus can be achieved by adding it and calling the page

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and messaged in the spirit of the holidays. The nom, if passed, removes that concept and specialness from Knowledge, and would actually dilute the page even as it expands it.

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the article be for?' It's also worth mentioning that the article currently offers no sources to justify that the festive specials, including "Resolution" as a NYD special but

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these were not specials; they just happened to have one episode broadcast on 1 January because of the way that the calendar fell that year. It's coincidence, no more than that

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Er...it's pedantic because it is correct. That's the basis of pedantic. Pedantic means that you're taking it too far (pedantry: slavish attention to details--dictonary.com).

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only - the lead details the specials during Christmas, and the home media release was only contained Christmas specials; if you believe a separate article should exist for

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section relevant to anything—that wasn't an annual occurrence. They don't fit based on your definition, but "The Feast of Steven" and "Volcano" are clearly relevant.

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Easter specials then that would be the basis of another holiday article page. The yearly holiday season special is a notable theme that is well covered by this page.

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is better placed on a specials article then the Season 20 article, then where will it be on the 1963–1989 episodes article? Or will there be a gap at Story #129? --

2831:. I was actually going to close this as "no consensus" but the reasons listed below and above made me think, "hmm, there may not be a consensus yet, but maybe there 2539:

find any source that states such a thing. The only thing I'm arguing it so continue listing the specials as they were originally created; an alternate suggestion of

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episodes, specials, etc. somewhere. And I have to say, perhaps not. If there is we need to link to it so people can find it. If not, well really, this RM is just

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No I won't Alex, but as you asked several questions that my proposal directly answers I felt it would be beneficial to point you to where they are. Please remain

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respectively as they are not part of those series' box sets (the anticipated circumstance that was the purpose of this article's creation - see above)

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links in place of the details for the specials already covered by this list, and then this request would again be far more neatly considered a merge.

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Exactly the same as "The Feast of Steven"; it just happened to have been broadcast on 25 December because of the way that the calendar fell that year.

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Thank you, that talk section is very useful to see. Considering that the article was first created to solve a problem in categorising 2014's

1477:). The classic episodes are simply prose notes to comment that while they aired on Christmas/New Year's, they weren't dedicated specials. -- 1232: 573: 458: 371: 85: 3732: 3457:

Festive special, yes. Christmas special, no, it's not sourced to be so in the "body of the article". I've updated that content for you. --

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Ah, I hadn't seen this supplementary list before. It looks precisely like the perfect accompaniment to a list of (full-length) specials.

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yesterday, as I considered removing the clear ambiguity between those 'special episodes' and these 'specials' to be uncontroversial.)

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their respective holidays. And thank you for the suggestion, but it was horrendous; that's the only term I can think of for it. --

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In what sense are the specials annual when on one occasion we have two Christmas/New Year's Day specials airing in the same block (

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While it may be true that the article is currently about Christmas specials and therefore those episodes wouldn't qualify, I think

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was never a traditional New Year's special, but just the second part to a Christmas special that happened to air a week later. --

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and its spin-offs on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this notice, or visit the

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There is currently no suggestion that the article is expanded beyond full episodes that are part of the main television series.

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Alex, you would have my backing on your final sentence, if you wanted to go along with it :). Seems to be a sensible approach.

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It isn't pedantic it is correct, Part Two is a New Year Special and therefore has no place on the List of Christmas specials.

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Without a source to back that 'unit' of specials up, I don't think that holds any water. "Planet of the Dead" is part of the

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It has been raised that the proposed change works against what the article is intended for. Thanks to DonQuixote's link to

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I hope the above aids clarity for any further responders to this move request and the associated changes to the article.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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redirecting to this article, I think it should be a disambig page to various specials and list of specials articles. --

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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And there we have it: not a Christmas special, making "2020 Christmas special" factually incorrect then and now. --

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Why not expand this article to include Planet of the Dead, The Waters of Mars and The Day of the Doctor as well?

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to be included, and allow any future non-series special broadcast outside Christmas/New Year to be listed also.

1715: 1530: 1486: 1442: 1382: 1323: 1243: 1217: 1154: 1038: 898: 854: 199: 2874:, we can see that the article was created to allow for episodes that do not fit into any series article (e.g. 2427:"Resolution" was most certainly not produced alongside the tenth series. Can you explain why the two parts of 998: 969: 879: 826: 3593: 3520: 3444: 3349: 2883: 2391: 2390:

bits from this article are added to it). Note also that specials even arise in different circumstances: the

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They aired in April 2009, November 2009 and November 2013, respectively. They are not Christmas specials. –

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I'm not arguing that TEoT should be deleted; I'm for keeping it, along with the classic episodes (also see

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To clarify: "Resolution" was produced at the end of the eleventh series, following a (very) short break.

1687: 935: 292: 213: 2175:, I believe that the proposed changes follow that spirit - allowing similar categorisation issues with 3271: 3055: 2974: 2685: 2641: 2570: 2350: 2271: 2162: 2054: 1876: 1833: 1697: 1595: 1460: 1340: 1300: 1180: 1132: 1128: 1118: 1079: 1075: 1012: 984: 3112:. If such a process is considered preferable to a re-name, I would be happy to create an article at 2619:

Are you saying that there is there only one more holiday special, the Easter special? I was never a

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currently fit this description ("Last Christmas" was eventually included on the series 9 box set).

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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should not be changed or removed, as their purpose is to list every episode of the programme. If

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at the proposed title, but my proposal would retain a chronological order and avoid overlap with

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This is what I mean by ad hoc—you're making two separate arguments for two separate situations (

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from scratch), the 2008-10 specials (including the Christmas episodes of these) are listed at

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Christmas specials in separate tables. But if you're having a discussion on this, have it at

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Yeah, I agree, if the consensus is they're not specials, the template should be got rid of.

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No intention to have them absent from that list, but this isn't the place to discuss that.

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as they are regular episodes and don't reference the festive period. Although it might be

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from 1983 also does not definitively sit in any season - it is currently listed within

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were reverted by myself, as such an article is not necessary. Will you be replying to

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It was designed for specials inbetween series (apart from Tennant's final specials).

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and is widely considered amongst fans to be the first Christmas special. Thoughts?

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Surely only Part One is a Christmas special as Part Two aired on New Year's Day.

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and "Resolution") when one much simpler definition would cover all three cases,

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Valid point. I still don't think of it as part of DMP, but I do see your point.

572:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can 2740:, which I do not propose altering. (Full disclosure: I moved that article from 2131:

I mention the November page move above not to suggest that it was incorrect of

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Talk:Doctor Who (series 9)/Archive 1#Why is Last Christmas part of this series

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was a New Year's episode produced in lieu of a series. The mini-episodes for

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Except that it's not two types of specials at all, as already explained. --

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Further supporting the above, I would also note that The End of Time Part 2

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But they are separate episodes, it doesn't matter that they are one story.

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It is, however, still noted in the lead of the article, given its airdate.

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then we need two lists. And again, the sooner they both exist the better.

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to be listed. If we take DVD box set inclusion as a marker for this, then

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should be merged into this page, but would make that proposal afterwards.

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Regardless of whether this article is or is not changed, the content of

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fan, so I don't know the entire history (I was lucky to start watching

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proposed "List of Doctor Who specials" looks excellent to me (once the

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described the episode as a "Christmas special". Alex is the one who

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by Alex 21 in November without discussion. Pinging original creator

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or variants thereon. In all three of your edit summaries you state

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Andrew, you're a Wikipedian, does Knowledge have this information?

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contains a short dab line and an improved lead to make that clear.

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I see no issue with the current title. This article was created

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And if not, I suggest that someone boldly create an article on

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should remain split in the (horrendous) diff link provided? --

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Perhaps there's a clear, general-reader-friendly overview of

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Please note that this article is titled "List of Doctor Who

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Talk:List of Doctor Who episodes (2005–present)/Archive 15

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on the list because the plot to pt.1 doesn't make sense?

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

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Hence why I said "other special episodes", Rhain 1999.

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Featured lists that have not appeared on the main page

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specials", not "List of Doctor Who special episodes".

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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Template:Doctor Who Christmas and New Year's specials

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Template:Doctor Who Christmas and New Year's specials

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Template:Doctor Who Christmas and New Year's specials

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I'm not sure which side you're actually arguing on.

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