513:
information is useful, disk space is cheap, and I don't see how the presence of useful information can be harmful, even if its utility is marginal. Concerning your intentions, I am neither questioning or trivializing them... I don't know who you are and I cannot see inside your head :-). It is the articles that I am concerned about. (And before someone starts trivializing my intentions, I am not a TOL fan. I just happened upon the articles when I was using
Knowledge in the manner an encyclopedia is meant to be used, that is, I was looking up information and found that it was in the process of being deleted.)
487:
discussion page to see if the article they're reading is about to be deleted. They only complain, as I do, when they suddenly do disappear. Knowledge, like a good encyclopedia, is about providing information. I consulted
Knowledge when I was looking for background information on these shows. Suddenly, a lot of that information vanished, for no good reason other than somebody's idea of "cleaning up". What are we trying to do here, turn Knowledge into a Reader's Digest version that only has popular stuff in it?
1097:. Too long for what? Is it filling up the bottom of your monitor? This is Knowledge, not a paper encyclopedia. You propose to delete the episode summaries, and on the other side of the fence we've got deletionists trying to delete the OL articles themselves and trying to salve opposition with "the summaries can be moved to the list of episodes". Why don't we just delete any mention of the Outer Limits at all, forever, from the entire encyclopedia. Sheesh, ridiculous. --
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reference? For what it is worth, my desire is not to antagonize a busy editor, merely to preserve content I find quite useful and informative (as in, gosh, encyclopedic!)... as a casual viewer of the show in question, not as a devoted fan, which I am not. If you are not listening to people who actually read the content in question, who exactly are you editing
Knowledge for?
53:
564:
cast lists, quotes and unsourced/in-universe trivia are "appropriate" (if you disagree, please provide a link to a GA ep article that contains such information). Otherwise, any ep article would be justified, since every live-action ep has a cast, and it's easy to come up with trivia and primary-source quotes. –
563:
You skipped the preceding sentences, "If possible, it is often preferable to cover multiple episodes via a combination or list article, rather than individual articles for each episode. Such lists are much less controversial than individual episode articles ". I refute that IBDb-type information like
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The plot summaries "vanished" into the LoE, i.e. they didn't vanish at all; the redirects redirected you to each summary in the LoE. The rest of the articles (quotes, cast list and unsourced trivia) was material that shouldn't have been there in the first place (if you disagree, please provide a link
428:
Thank you for taking the time to restore these episodes. Perhaps not all the episodes of the new TOL are notable, but many of them are, even if this series has not yet quite achieved the cult status (yet?) of the old series. And like the old series, the episodes of the new series are also independent
383:
tags and hope to find merge consensus afterwards (i.e. now). If the articles continue to lack a raison d'être (see first two sentences), I truly believe that the episode summaries are better covered in an LoE (or season article), with no prejudice against recreation if someone wants to write a proper
1161:
If you are going to that, than *this* page needs to be a disambiguation page. I noticed the (silly) move to merge notice on a page, and came to the location it suggested merging, and not only found no information remotely like what was being suggested merged, and it took me looking in the discussion
936:
The reason of existing of individual articles of TOL episodes is not planning (or not planning) to work about them. The real reason is that there are some people who are glad to see these articles here. If you are not interested in The Outer Limits, or believe that these films has no any importance,
678:
I said above, I was reluctant to restore any more articles if I don't get input (but the input has come now). I have since resumed the restoration of articles, and seasons 3-5 are the only three seasons that haven't been restored yet. I'll get to them eventually. It took a week to merge, so it takes
512:
As you point out, there is/was more to the episode articles than just plot summaries. I disagree with you concerning their importance. We have articles with similar detail for shows that (in my opinion) are less deserving, e.g., The
Simpsons, but no, I am not advocating deletion there either, as the
548:
I noted a very important sentence: "When merging existing articles into such a list, it is important to make sure that all verifiable and appropriate information is preserved." The reason for my objection to the listifying of TOL episodes was that verifiable and appropriate information (e.g., cast,
710:
The rationale for merging the 1963-1965 episode articles is nearly identical to that of the 1995-2002 ep articles, with the (some would say huge) difference that notability is not so much the problem (I only realize this now), but the shape of the articles - nearly all of them are sourced entirely
662:
By the way, I noted that you have not continued the restoration of the episode articles. Have you changed your mind on this, or have you just run out of time? If the former, we need to come to a consensus because it'd not be a good idea to work at cross purposes, but if the latter, let us know, so
595:
Many shows have planet/patient/mystery/murder_case/monster-of-the-week stories without any connection, and can be covered in LoEs just fine. I don't need to watch TOL to deduce that this also applies to this show. (BTW, entangling editors in endless antagonistic discussions have rarely prevented a
447:
I appreciate your comments. I'll note nevertheless that what appears in this list of episodes now are nearly identical plot summaries from what appeared in the articles, so all that changed was a matter of representation (the rest shouldn't have been there in the first place). Secondly, (and I say
605:
Okay, since you appear to be annoyed by our attempt to "entangle the editor", allow me to ask: exactly what is the point of doing an edit when all you accomplish is angering people who actually READ the articles in question, USE them, and, heaven forbid, actually WATCH the shows that the articles
486:
It is a questionable rationale to use the absence of a discussion a reason to delete (let's call a spade a spade; sure, the article histories will still be there, but unless you know what you're looking for, the articles are as good as deleted). Most users of
Knowledge don't routinely check the
432:
My opinion is that of a viewer/Wikipedia user, by the way. Here in Ottawa, TOL is shown daily on a cable channel, and more than once I found myself using
Knowledge to get additional information about the episode in question. It was quite an unpleasant surprise when the episode articles suddenly
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Before I restore any more articles, I want to see some more input from others. That I was expecting lack of input was exactly the reason why I bold-merged the episodes in the first place, and it seems I wasn't that far off. (Why start discussions when there is no-one to discuss things with?) –
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to an episode GA or FA ep article that has them). I'd also argue that the articles are much more likely to be kept if editors provide good reasons why the articles shouldn't be merged (volunteering for improvement would be a good start), instead of dissecting and trivializing my intentions. –
960:. Redirection is not deletion and never was because the page histories stay around. The opinion of TOL fans has no more weight than that of any other wikipedian, so my liking or not liking TOL is immaterial to this merge discussion (in fact, it could be argued that non-fans have less of a
1162:
to find out that the merged data was being moved to a sub-sub-sub page. If you are going to duplicate the information on this page, as well as add in the useful information from the merged articles to that new page, this page is unneeded as anything other than a disambig page.
369:) and quotes (which should be moved to WikiQuote). Since I believed that there are no TOL-enthusiastic editors to fix that (the last TOL episode aired over six years ago), I bold-merged these stubs into this List of episodes. Concerns about the legitimity of this action led to
731:. It is now a matter of philosophy to keep article stub around for more-or-less notable subjects, or merge the plot summaries (nearly in full) to a list of episodes or a season list until someone wants to improve them the standard set by the TOL ep article
843:
This needs to be closed as No consensus (Keep) and the "proposed merger" tags should be removed from the articles. I'll wait a week and if the original proponent does not do it or if there are no further opinions voiced, I'll do it myself.
1204:", I think it would be appropriate for this article to be changed to a disambiguation page to outline the two separate episode list articles. I've already attempted to change this article to a disambiguation page
581:, and it has not a direct plot of all episodes. Also, there is not a direct plot for seasons too. That is why its episodes cannot be merged. Probably, you did not watched TOL, and do not understand this thing.
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and other media on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can edit one of the articles mentioned below, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the
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stories with little or no continuity between them, which is another strong reason why they should be treated more like movies are, as individual films, not as episodes of a serial story.
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299:. The problem with using (episode) as a disambiguator is that sometimes different television series will use the same episode name — see the "television and film" examples at
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outlining episodes from both the original 1963 series and the 1995 revival series. This article simply repeats all the information that is already available there separately.
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than TOL fans and are more objective what's best). I have explained why I think merging is the best way to go, and now others should share why not merging is even better.
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1081:(I was going to suggest this myself, with the possibility of season articles for the 1995-2002 series). Maybe it's enough to turn the current LoE into a dab page like
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Feel free to close it as "No consensus (Keep)". As long as the notability tags stay in the articles that don't establish notability, I am fine with any motions. –
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636:). Please contact me on my talkpage if the cited policies, guidelines and other reasoning in my initial merge proposal are not sufficient or confuse you. –
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1063:, and I am going to do it soon. If someone is against this transformations, please put your arguments here. I must know your position about this question.
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743:, although those lack the sources). I prefer the latter option, but I am not as adamant about this here than I am/would be for the 1995-2002 articles. –
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before accusing editors of vandalism. Feel free to ask an admin to restore the images (I don't have admin powers), but since the images failed
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1141:. I think splitting the list into two is a good idea, regardless of whether or not episode articles are merged into them (which I oppose).
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For everyone's sake, I'll step back from this discussion until someone offers insight to keep the articles while not appealing to various
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1242:). The two episode lists were created to move there all the plot summaries of episodes, - but they are still too long. For this reason,
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These rules that you pointed out was developed for episodes of usual TV series, which has a direct common plot of all episodes. But
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I know that you're not an admin. You must note that removing of these images is one of direct results of your own "merging".
373:, which showed mixed reactions. I have therefore started to restore the TOL episode articles (seasons 5-7 so far) with added
929:
This current discussion that you initiated is not about merging, — so as the episodes' summaries are still merged to this
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this because/although I know where you're coming from) wikipedia is not a replacement for watching a show. –
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This page (with summaries of all episodes) is too long. For this reason, I had created today two new pages:
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Unless I missed any or someone re-added them, all the merger tags were removed from the 1963-65 episodes. --
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opening and closing narration which, in the case of TOL, define the episode, other details) vanished.
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proposal for why merging is the best option as long as no-one wants to improve the actual articles. –
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My opinion is that the 1995-2002 episodes are generally non-notable, with some exceptions. It's the
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1212:. What are opinions on how to go about this? Krass, I invite you to the discussion particularly. —
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that others that happen upon articles that have not yet been restored can do so.
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Hi, folks. I've just finished moving a number of these episodes from names like
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Please avoid recommending to keep the articles if you don't plan to work on them
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Instead of repeating my replies from above, I'll point to the issues raised at
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The discussion about merging/deleting was finished, and result is clear (see
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for examples. It's also worth remembering that you don't need to put
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merger when the articles weren't up to snuff - and I have time.) –
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So, I see a real reason to remove all summaries from the original
937:— please edit some other articles, you are really interested in.
933:. The current question is about deleting the original articles.
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Knowledge:Articles_for_deletion/Simon_Says_(The_Outer_Limits)
323:. This is just a little clean-up and a friendly reminder. —
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episodes that should be restored to their own articles. --
295:, as recommended by the naming conventions guideline at
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Seeing as I've just recently separated the original "
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CrazyInSane, please read first the section above, (
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Redirection ("merger") of The Outer Limits episodes
968:has always been a poor reason to keep articles. –
924:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/The Galaxy Being
371:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/The Galaxy Being
1177:Request to change this to a disambiguation page
706:Redirection ("merger") of 1963 to 1965 episodes
349:Redirection ("merger") of 1995 to 2002 episodes
115:. To improve this article, please refer to the
624:arguments (e.g. your last comment appealed to
311:disambiguation on a title that's unique, like
1054:List of The Outer Limits (1995-2002) episodes
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1349:Unknown-importance Episode coverage articles
420:I have started a new merge thread below. –
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926:). Why did you started a new discussion?
1246:(without plot summaries) is useful too.
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753:I agree with Sgeureka on this one.
38:It is of interest to the following
1339:Mid-importance television articles
1111:I'm proposing to turn the current
293:Beyond the Veil (The Outer Limits)
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1202:The Outer Limits (1995 TV series)
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1013:#8 anyway, I wouldn't bother. –
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313:The Revelations of Becka Paulson
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471:See my answer below.
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1007:WP:VANDALISM
1005:Please read
982:
979:About images
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789:I disagree.
777:Magioladitis
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531:and the new
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384:article per
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40:WikiProjects
1281:—Preceding
809:Don't merge
791:Don't merge
544:Looking at
367:WP:NOT#PLOT
325:Josiah Rowe
1328:Categories
966:WP:ILIKEIT
716:notability
626:WP:ILIKEIT
386:WP:EPISODE
378:notability
226:literature
122:Television
59:Television
30:List-class
1244:this list
634:WP:USEFUL
579:anthology
301:Awakening
1283:unsigned
1087:sgeureka
1015:sgeureka
988:The Camp
970:sgeureka
868:Done. --
861:sgeureka
759:Eusebeus
745:sgeureka
688:Thanks!
681:sgeureka
638:sgeureka
598:sgeureka
566:sgeureka
537:sgeureka
505:sgeureka
463:sgeureka
450:sgeureka
422:sgeureka
394:sgeureka
359:WP:STUBs
334:contribs
317:WP:NC-TV
297:WP:NC-TV
1200:" and "
1157:Comment
1139:Support
1079:Support
1011:WP:NFCC
546:WP:FICT
533:WP:FICT
404:1964-65
264:on the
149:on the
1312:Krasss
1248:Krasss
1143:vttoth
1124:Krasss
1095:Oppose
1065:Krasss
1024:Krasss
992:Krasss
962:WP:COI
939:Krasss
813:Krasss
795:vttoth
721:, but
690:vttoth
665:vttoth
632:, and
622:WP:ATA
608:vttoth
583:Krasss
577:is an
551:vttoth
515:vttoth
489:vttoth
473:Krasss
435:Vttoth
321:WP:DAB
237:Horror
194:Horror
36:scale.
884:travb
793:. --
775:. --
773:Merge
755:Merge
1316:talk
1291:talk
1271:talk
1263:Keep
1252:talk
1218:RAZY
1210:here
1206:here
1187:here
1185:and
1183:here
1168:talk
1147:talk
1128:talk
1103:talk
1085:. –
1069:talk
1028:talk
996:talk
958:keep
943:talk
902:talk
888:talk
874:talk
850:talk
834:talk
828:. --
817:talk
799:talk
781:talk
763:talk
739:and
735:(or
694:talk
669:talk
612:talk
587:talk
555:talk
519:talk
493:talk
477:talk
439:talk
412:talk
353:All
330:talk
222:film
1229:ANE
309:any
303:or
291:to
256:Low
141:Mid
1330::
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1222:lN
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42::
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