383:. The Emirs of Cordoba were the premier monarchs of the peninsula, above the 'walis' (governors), just as the Kings of Great Britain were (and in some cases still are) above the Governors of Canada, the American Colonies, Australia, etc., so calling an Emir a Governor is like calling a King a Governor. The Emirs of Cordoba considered themselves superior in status to the Maliks of Pamplona, but you translate the terms precisely into English with Commander or Lord vs King and you give the opposite impression. Using 'Lord' is particularly problematic, as is also used to translate sahib (and sayyed as well): in the early 9th century, the 'sahibs' of the Basques occupied a status below that of the 'maliks' of Asturias, who were in turn below that of the 'emirs', meaning Lords would confusingly apply to the levels both above and below Kings. Sometimes it is worth abandoning word-for-word precision in favor of giving flavor of things.)
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Umayyad rulers. I really would prefer not to have the last half at all, but I included them in to clarify they were different period & different people. Anyone who looks up "Umayyad al-Andalus" and comes here might not be able to tell the difference and be misled. "Rulers" will definitely not do for the list page as a whole, as the first half were not rulers, but governors properly speaking. Problem of splitting it into two pages is that it runs into the original problem I faced - how to avoid confusing people who look up "Umayyad Al-Andalus" or something like that? Listing both dependent governors and independent rulers of the same piece of territory on the same page seemed the best solution, as it covers both types of inquiries. As long as the distinction is clear, it is not too scandalous. I did a similar thing with
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356:. If you have a better solution, I'm all ears. (P.S. "Emir" is not king, it means "Commander" or "Leader"; its closest equivalent in English usage is probably "Lord"; it is generically used at many levels - anyone from a local chieftain to a two-bit army commander to a great independent ruler is called "Emir". "Malik" is king.)
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languages, and not all readers are native
English speakers. You're expecting 14-year-olds writing a book report to be able to grasp the distinction, or asking them to go through multiple clicks and multiple pages to sort it all out. Is it not easier to just sort it out for them, neatly and succinctly, on a single page?
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Another functional concern is linking from other pages. I might carelessly write in another article "Umayyad governor" when meaning an independent ruler, or "Umayyad ruler" in reference to a dependent governor, or even just "Umayyad lord" or "Umayyad emir" which can go either way, and end up linking
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No. While a 'Governor' is technically 'one who governs', in standard usage it has the connotation of a regional administrator. The Wali of the Upper, Middle and Lower March were governors. The closest thing to Emir and Caliph would be King and
Emperor, and you would not normally produce a 'List of
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regional administrators. That was the point of constructing this list page to begin with. We needed a list of the regional administrators. The problem is once you have a page that lists the "Umayyad governors of al-Andalus", then it is likely to be confused by readers with the later independent
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This is really what this is after all. A disambiguation list for anyone who links or searches the terms "Umayyad al-Andalus", not a comprehensive list of rulers of al-Andalus, Umayyad or otherwise. I think a "List of rulers of al-Andalus" should probably exist - and that would include not only
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I hear you. I want to agree. I really do. But I am not convinced that is the best solution. You assume too much of our readers. The distinction between "governor" and "ruler" is subtle and not clear - "to rule" and "to govern" are synonyms, and they often translate to the same word in other
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governors of
England' or 'List of governors of the Byzantine Empire'. One of two things needs to be done - either the page needs to be renamed to 'rulers' or something similarly broad, or it needs to be split in order to separate the true Governors from the Emirs and Caliphs.
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The best way to deal with this is to put a hatnote at the top of the governors page saying that if the reader is interested in the Emirs and
Caliphs of Cordoba, rulers of Al-Andalus, then they should go to
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Yes - that or split the page. The
Caliphs were fully independent and the most powerful monarchs on the peninsula and it minimizes this role to simply call them governors.
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Umayyads but also others, like
Almoravids, Almohads, etc. This list is just for disambiguation. It is not the happiest page, but it is a necessary page.
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to the wrong page. So we will likely have to have a myriad of redirects and a disambiguation page regardless. Why not just disambiguate here?
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OK. Tried to fix the ambiguity between dependent governors and independent governors. Better now? Or does it still need tweaking?
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independent. What about Ibn al-Fihri and others who were just as de facto independent - a "governor" or a "ruler"?)
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status of the "Emir of
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I would prefer to change the title - if you find it too misleading - than to split it into multiple articles.
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Because it doesn't only cover the governors, but also the independent emirs and later caliphs.
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