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2050:"Why?" is not a yes or no question. At any rate, I have as mentioned answered the questions, with an actual answer rather than the made up quote there. There is a very simple path forward, which is explaining the content changes I noted, explaining the content changes Alexander Berezin noted, and explaining the inconsistency within the page Alexander Berezin noted. I can't see how you can claim to be serious when none of these have been done over the past few days.
2421:. They don't meet any of the listed criteria for entities similar to dependent territories and are included on the ad hoc basis the that Australia acquired them after its establishment - a criterion which, if applied neutrally and consistently, would make for a very long article indeed, and which must be discarded immediately as the actual basis. The real reason they are included is of course that they are commonly included in similar lists.
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2068:, yes or no" and you keep on not answering and then come up with demonstrably untrue nonsense about how I asked "Why..." which never happened. I'll add table captions and remove column headers to all the tables since you seem unwilling or unable to help blind users as the MOS explicitly says is necessary and per your directive to do so above. You could have also done this, but were motivated to write this noise instead. ―
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2064:"So to be clear, you know that table captions are required per MOS:DTAB and they are used by the blind, but you removed them and you also know that MOS:COLHEAD says to not insert columns that span the table in the middle like this because they are difficult for blind users to navigate and you inserted them anyway?" does not include the word "why". I did not ask you "why", I asked you: "to be clear, you did
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table but I also recognise the strong arguments against it; namely that is to some extent redundant and incomplete. As such I'm not inclined to press for inclusion, rather suggesting that a more rounded and complete approach is required. As currently formulated I'm not in favour of inclusion but I would be prepared to consider a constructive proposal that addresses the concerns presented.
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1464:Также в таблицу зависимых территорий Соединённых Штатов был добавлен атолл Пальмира, хотя перед таблицей сказано, что данная территория исключена из списка, так как «в законодательстве США она классифицируется как инкорпорированная территория». В итоге получается противоречие между текстом, таблицей и изображением в самом начале статьи.
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They're included here because "debate remains as to whether the external territories are integral parts of
Australia", which is likely related to why they're on similar lists. If the debate was settled they'd be in the first list. The list excludes entities that appear on similar lists, although they
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and aimed to browbeat your fellow editors. I'm sure that I may have misconstrued your motives but felt it important to bring to your attention, ie even if that were not your intention it rather frames your approach to comments. To add to the discussion, I am mildly in favour of the addition of that
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for it, the practice is prevalent to mirror some content of subtopics in the relevant pages. Therefore, I don't think my succinct table is redundant. In fact, I think omitting said information from this page is less than ideal, because it is essential information to the subject of the page. There may
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maybe we should, as the US is a world power. I would understand if we don't have 10 lists of 10 different countries or organizations in this page. But it may be a good idea to include a select few of the most notable ones and make mention of others. After all, how was the current list compiled? Does
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are not dependent territories. To be a dependent territory, the entity needs to function like a country, i.e. it should have three key elements: a defined territory, a permanent population, and a functioning local government. Uninhabited islands only have a defined territory and nothing else, they
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Argumentum ad verecundiam. I have been in
Knowledge (XXG) long enough to know that senior editors are not perfect (btw, I did not use a template). But tbh before posting the policies I was going to report the page to the edit warring noticeboard to be analyzed by editors more experienced about the
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Also, Palmyra Atoll was added to the table of dependent territories of the United States, although the table states before the table that this territory is excluded from the list because “it is classified as an incorporated territory under US law”. The result is a contradiction between the text,
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Obviously, uninhabited islands are not dependencies since they don't function like countries, they are just remote external territories located far away from the mainland. They don't "depend" on their mainland administration, they are "administered" by their mainland administration.
1314:, What you are saying is just your interpretation of what the UN writes or thinks. Even if it is obvious, it is still your opinion (primary source) and is therefore not a secondary source, and therefore should not be used a such. I also have doubts about your interpretation anyway.
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I provided specific examples two messages above. Given there was apparently no reason, I have restored the long-standing version. I do agree with OP that it is unusual for the tables to be inconsistent, so would suggest a future change be made to all tables instead of just 3.
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changed the header of the tables of the dependent territories of New
Zealand, Norway and the United Kingdom. Firstly, the matter has not been completed, and secondly, it has only gotten worse, since it is now unclear which territories are uninhabited and which are claimed.
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It was compiled by consensus, and does have consistency. There are always questions around the system (as there are with all similar topics), however these are more noticeable here as a reflection of the topic itself, which has always somewhat of a term of convenience.
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Basically, the whole source talks about that. The United
Nations use the term "non-self-governing territories" instead of dependent territories, dependent areas, or dependencies to describe these country-like political entities, but they are the same
1043:. All dependent territories should function like countries. A dependent territory should have a permanent population. Its local people should have the option to break away from their parent state and create their own independent sovereign state via
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Well, I can see the difference clearly. The Canary
Islands are an autonomous region of Spain, and the Asores and Madeiras are autonomous regions of Portugal, while Christmas, Cocos and Norfolk are external dependent territories of Australia.
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What I did was ask very openly why the content was changed. I got one answer, then a note that this was not actually the answer, then a dismissal. Those who are blind benefit as do all our readers from accurate and explainable content choices.
1461:изменил шапку таблиц зависимых территорий Новой Зеландии, Норвегии и Соединённого Королевства. Во-первых, дело не доведено до конца, а во-вторых, стало только хуже, поскольку теперь непонятно, какие территории необитаемы, а какие — заявлены.
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I have openly asked you from the beginning to explain the edits, which were clearly not just adding captions. I have provided specific quotes. I'm in some cases getting 3 word replies to my questions. And yes I have read the MOS.
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I in no way dismissed you: I asked you what you meant. You on the other hand dismissed me just now. The solution to what you perceive to be deficient table captions is not remove them, but improve them. Have you read
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Koavf, your edits seem to have created new "Status" titles for NZ and Norway. Where were they from and why were the old ones changed? As for
Palmyra that was not in Koavf's edits, and either way I have reverted.
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There is no evidence they have been incorporated into
Australia. In recent years, Australia has placed refugees on these islands, under the premise that because they were not part of Australia, the
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the changes, which were not one of those two things you list now. I ma not sure why this is still being missed, despite my repeated mention of them. I already answered your second question too,
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What are "status titles"? I still have no clue what you're talking about. There were no captions, there need to be captions, therefore, I added captions. I don't see what the problem is. ―
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2015:. Please do not play games while others are trying to be serious. You can easily answer "Yes, I did that, knowing better because I have read the MOS", but you are just being unserious. ―
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Uninhabited territories should be removed though. They aren't country-like dependencies, they don't even have a local government and they have no people to be governed either.
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Your question prior to that was "Have you read MOS:DTAB?" to which I literally replied "yes". Further direct personal attacks assuming bad faith will be reported.
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be text indicating that a dependent territory is on the UN list but it would be more practical and better format to have a separate table of said list as well.
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Please quote the part that says "all dependent territories should function like countries" or anything even like that and the part about uninhabited islands. ―
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says to not insert columns that span the table in the middle like this because they are difficult for blind users to navigate and you inserted them anyway? ―
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Incorporation into a state means that its laws apply in full, which apparently is not the case here, at least in the opinion of the
Australian government.
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It's not an authority. Legally, under both domestic and international law, the territories have been incorporated into Spain and
Portugal respectively.
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I have answered all your questions, but I don't know what a "status title" is, hence I asked. I explained that I did two things: I added table captions
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Well, all dependent territories have been classified as colonies by the United
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Could you explain how MOS:TABLECAPTION requires the changing of "Dependent territory" to "Territory" in some cases and "Dependency" in other cases?
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in the table, not their political status. The original tables are easier for the readers to acquire information, not the weird ones created by you.
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above. You know that captions are obligatory and you removed them. You know that column headers are disallowed and you added them (back). Why? ―
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lol, I didn't make any personal attacks. Anyway, you've made it clear what your intentions are. You have a nice life and be good and be well. ―
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answer, which is clearly the one that I am waiting on you to answer and which you won't because you're playing games. Go ahead and answer it. ―
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Your tables are ugly, man. The main purpose of this article is creating a list of dependent territories, so these territories should be the
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Okay, so is there another reason for why you changed the status titles if not MOS:TABLECAPTION as you indicated in your previous answer?
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I propose the removal of the following 24 territories and territorial claims from the list of dependent territories:
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I'm puzzled by the section added above, aimed as it is toward a bunch of seasoned editors, it seems to me to violate
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are not dependent territories. It doesn't matter what their administering states call them, they are merely "
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Mirroring the table is redundant. We don't eg. have the US State Department list of dependent territories.
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1455:Откатите, пожалуйста, последние правки в статье примерно до состояния на 7 января 2024 года. Пользователь
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Uninhabited islands cannot become independent sovereign states. Hence, they are not dependent territories.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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issue. I decided against and instead just post the aforementioned thread that generated irk. Regards,
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1467:Заранее извиняюсь за возможные ошибки — я живу в России и не в полной мере владею английским языком.
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Please roll back the latest edits in the article to approximately the state of January 7, 2024. User
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I apologize in advance for possible mistakes—I live in Russia and do not fully speak English.
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and object of a dispute. We should discuss whether to add it or remove it or something else.
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My addition of the United Nations list of non-self-governing territories was
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and they are used by the blind, but you removed them and you also know that
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are also uninhabited and therefore they are not dependent territories too.
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are mentioned in prose (eg. French Guiana, Palmyra Atoll, Jan Mayen).
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2. Fully incorporated with your parent state (i.e. becoming a normal
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1407:. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
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Where did you get these definitions? Did you just make them up? ―
1673:"Where were they from" ??? and "why were the old ones changed?"
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1161:. They are just different things and you are conflating them. ―
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it pick and choose items to include, does it have consistency?
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So to be clear, you know that table captions are required per
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I can't see any differences between them and the likes of
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That in no way answers my questions at all. Have you read
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The old version is indeed a better one. The edits made by
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What are the differences? Could you elaborate on details?
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removed column headers and gave you citations as to why:
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I can't see any differences between them and Tasmania.
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table and image at the very beginning of the article.
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Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles in Geography
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject International relations
1619:. Do not remove them, just improve them. See also
1105:They are not the same thing: you are mistaken. ―
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1072:Where exactly in that source does it say that?
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1332:were true, this is not UN-pedia. ―
779:Sounds like a good idea. Regards,
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1831:MOS:COLHEAD
1621:MOS:COLHEAD
944:Wake Island
582:User:Xevres
453:WPCountries
52:Start-class
2482:Categories
2423:Kominscarm
1418:Steel1943
784:Thinker78
709:Thinker78
678:Thinker78
605:Thinker78
526:Archive 3
521:Archive 2
516:Archive 1
325:Countries
316:countries
275:Countries
50:is rated
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170:Politics
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2123:another
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1053:Source:
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639:WP:DTTR
554:90 days
410:Cleanup
361:history
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366:watch
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