1486:": "Caution should be applied when naming individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event. When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed (such as in certain court cases or occupations), it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. When evaluating the inclusion or removal of names, their publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts, should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories." This is a tricky case because the individuals in question are named primarily in terms of single events (accidents at Disney parks), but since the article is specifically about accidents, not mentioning their names
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1069:) 04:40, 6 July 2009 it is purple monorail which crashed into RED monorail. purple monorail was returing from epcot it had the family coming from epcot. the track is a clockwise track. the switch is north of the station and if there is a switch all the trains stop, no movement. the deceased was driving the purple monorail. these are facts, and from pictures and from eyewitnesses. thank you. also i looked the link you said above, it is red, the red monorail had black borders . the pink is just pink, also i can tell the difference between pink and red. thank you
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when the names are released. I agree with
Jacklee, and would rather err on the side of caution as you don't need to know the names to know what happened. Saying Jane Doe has no meaning to anyone. Its like the difference between some random Joe Blow having a being in a monorail accident or Joe Biden. Joe Blow's name is irrelevant to the accident, while obviously Biden is already notable and so it would be appropriate to mention by name. /semi-rambling reasoning for not including names. --
1541:" that the omission of the names would "result in a significant loss of context". As I mentioned, I think this is a borderline case but would prefer to err on the side of caution by not mentioning the names. I don't think it makes much difference to the article to say "A 40-year-old American woman from Houston fell off a rollercoaster" rather than "Jane Doe fell off a rollercoaster" since nobody would have heard of Jane Doe if not for her accident. — Cheers,
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956:" can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons. –Jimmy Wales" ::::
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known reason when it happen. yes also the color of the train should matter to. for those that go there and enjoy walt disney world knows these trains. some people ride particular ones and or make sure they ride each one when they are there. my opinoin about this site is there are too many chiefs and not enogh indians. thank you
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THE NUMBER FROM ORIGINAL REPORT) guests who were on the trains were treated at the scene and released.(FOOTNOTE). OSHA and park officials inspected the monorail line, and the monorail reopened on July 6, 2009, after new sensors and operating procedures were put in place(FOOTNOTE). (yadda yadda update after that if necessary)
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beer swilling mob that the guard had allowed to gather. The man was also a 100% disabled veteran, carrying a handicapped pass issued by
Disneyland. He was also suffering from a concussion incurred a week before the incident. How can this NOT be part of the article? Is this page merely acting as a shill for Disneyland?
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matter because the victims are deceased; WP does not exist to cushion nebulous feelings of family members. Moreover, this proto-policy is being applied inconsistently within the article. Incidents under the Disney World heading are stripped of names, while virtually all incidents under the
Disneyland heading have names.
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about people notable for one event. Also, the policy states, "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed (such as in certain court cases or occupations), it is often preferable to omit it." That is not the case here or in the names you
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Thanks, Cla68. As there has been no further commentary on either side, I will remove the RFC tag later today and request the page be unlocked. Going forward based on this discussion, we will continue to remove victims names from this (and related
Incidents, attraction, park, etc) pages for failing
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I can really see no valid reason to include the victims names. Yes, they made be "dead" but their families are still alive. Removing the names does not harm the article in the least as these are not famous people by any stretch, just borderline one-time notables for having been mentioned in the news
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in this case, then it's ok to mention it in the article. If the victim is injured but still living, that's another matter and BLP applies, but if the victim is deceased, then it's ok to mention the name. Any other details about the dead victim, such as if they were at fault or not in the accident,
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Due to the revert warring and potential BLP issues, I have fully protected this article whilst this dispute is settled. In matters with BLP implications we always err on the side of caution. That is to say, until there is a clear consensus that BLP policy permits inclusion of the names in this case,
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Hi, this page already does include the info on the incident. The cited news reports say "pink" not "red", so we have to go with what's being reported as official until corrected. The name of the individual in the above user's post was deleted on purpose per WP:BLP guidelines. We cannot use the link
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On July 5, 2009, during a failed track switchover from the Epcot line onto the Magic
Kingdom express line, Monorail Pink backed into Monorail Purple at the Transportation & Ticket Center station, killing a 21-year-old cast member from Kissimmee, Florida (FOOTNOTE). Two employees and six (CONFIRM
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CFred refuses to allow the victim of the riot that occurred at the Tower of Terror on 18 Feb 2012 to post facts. He cites a CBS news story that does NOT include all the information, and includes inflammatory language. The man in question was attacked by the Disney security guard and members of a
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Agree that victim's names should be included. The arguments against inclusion are forced. That the victim was only known because of this one incident matters not -- they were killed by the incident, are a part of it, and their names are revealed in the sources in any event. Privacy concerns do not
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Hello. I have been told by numerous admins/editors previously, that WP:BLP applies to keeping the privacy of accident victims and their families by suggesting that the victim names not be included in an article that talks about the incident. Current edit warring and talk page discussion is going on
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article and similar articles which contain lists of incidents. There is no problem with listing names in articles dedicated to a specific incident. If you need some examples, see the friendly fire and military accident FAs listed on my talk page which liberally name names of victims, management,
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yes look at the pictures that is pink. if you dont know your colors then look at a color wheel. then if they were doing this swiching tracks there would not be any passnegers on the train. but you are right should speculate until there are facts but i am sure that is red, take a batter look at the
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I read an article about this incident, and some things sound kinda sketchy. For example, why did the complainant wait two years to bring a case? If it was as horrible as she says it was, I'd have been at Guest
Relations within minutes complaining then. But, that's my opinion on the matter ... if
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arguably result in a significant loss of context. On balance, I think that the victims' names are not essential to the article. Thus, erring on the side of caution, the article could just refer to, for instance, "a 40-year-old
American woman from Houston, Texas". I don't think very much would be
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His name should be put here, what people forget is this site is supposed to be a living encylopdia. there are other accidents and icidents the names are there. it was part of the news article and this is what the article is based on, so yes name should be there. i added and it was removed for no
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applies, and that names for people who are known for just one event (in these instances, for dying or being injured) should not be included in WP. As such, previously-listed victim names have been removed over time and names of new victims have not been included as newer incidents occured. This
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According to you, nothing is factually true unless it's reported by a newspaper or a press release? if a tree fell in the forest, did it really fall; not unless the new york times says it did? and so what if disney issued a press release and says nothing happened, should wiki report that nothing
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whoever has their information for the accident which happen this morning has to be wrong. first in the direction of the route. it would have to be the purple monrail hit the red monrail which was in the station. if it was red hitting purple, that means it was going the wrong way. i have alot of
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I have added the names of deceased accident victims to numerous articles in
Knowledge (XXG) and never encountered any problem with this until now. Just in case, I checked the BLP policy and as far as I can see, it does not prohibit the display of accident victim's names. Note that in
1718:: All amusement park "Incidents" articles have been in process of addressing your observation of inconsistency in using names vs not, and admittedly that task has not been completed here. Article history will show that progress has been continual in that arena over many months.
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week, with the Disney monorail incident in the news, there have been a number of editors who have been trying to add the name of the victim, and other editors who have been removing it per the previous status. Discussion posts have been posted on this talk page, as well as on
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As noted above, the monorails involved were Pink and Purple. However, it *is* known publicly that monorail purple had stopped and the driver was attempting to back the train up, and that purple was hit by pink, which was traveling in reverse on the wrong track. Here is a link:
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The comments appear to be forming a consensus that inclusion of the name in this article is unnecessary, although BLP doesn't seem to be the reason. I won't be, and I encourage others, to follow the consensus and not attempt to readd the name once full protection is lifted.
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I feel I know an ex. Employee who claimed injuries and have been doing this with other insurance companies claiming accident and suing she is still having workers compensation paying for drugs, I believe they are addictive drugs. Who do I report this possible problem to?
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The trains involved were
Monorails Pink and Purple, Red was not involved. It is not known publicly if one train was stopped or not nor who collided with who. I've heard different things from different sources. The investigation will reveal what happened in due time.
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recent article, several of the victim's names are included. I am going to readd the name. Please do not remove it until you can show here on the talk page why the policy suddenly prohibits this in this particular article, but no other in
Knowledge (XXG).
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If your information is so great, then you should know it was monorail pink that was in the incident, not red. This is obvious from multiple news reports and pictures. And you don't know what you are talking about... the purple monorail was the one in the
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The links for both parks take you to the park page, where an alleged "Incidents" section has been removed (or never existed). Should these be taken out entirely? If there are no pages with incidents listed, there is no need for the links to exist.
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Yes, thank you. Due to other issues at hand, we have been unable to update the article accordingly from the original events, but will do so as soon as possible. The text that I was planning on writing once cleared to do so was along the lines of
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article are three examples of articles about accidents which included the deceased victims' names within hours or days of the accident. A complete list of related articles would probably number several hundred, if not thousands, at least.
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As I explained above, the BLP policy applies to living people injured in industrial or recreational accidents, but not to the names of deceased persons. If a deceased victim's name is mentioned in a reliable news source, such as the
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however, should wait until a formal investigative report is released in order to comply with BLP as it concerns recently deceased individuals. If no one here is sure on the policy interpretation, I'll be openining an RfC on it.
1303:, but no middle ground has been reached. In the current situation, one party believes that once a victim's name has been published in outside sources (such as AP News) then the name can be included. One party believes that
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then they should be omitted until that point. The reader is not going to miss having this information supplied for a few days whilst the matter is discussed and a revert war is not helping resolve the situation properly.
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in stating what occured. If a news report or statement from Disney comes out tomorrow that says specifically that the monorail was red or coral or light orange, then we will update the paragraph appropriately. Cheers!
1061:. It is obviously a pink monorail. It also has a good explanation of what might of happened. And, yes, there were passengers aboard because one monorail was switching and one monorail was still servicing guests.
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December 2, 2012 - Emergency crews arrived to find a sedan lodged in the iron fence of the Walt Disney Studios property. The driver was pronounced dead at the scene. Reported in the Burbank Leader Dec 3, 2012
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If you would like to try and remove the names of all victims from all Knowledge (XXG) articles, you have quite a task ahead of you. I suggest you get started. In the meantime, I'll open an RfC on the issue.
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and elsewhere, is for respect of the victim's family's privacy moving forward, and that "WP covers the incident, not the person". That these policies are not followed on other pages is not relevant here.
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I agree with AnmaFinotera's points. The article is in no way harmed by leaving the name aside and if someone so desperately wants to know the name they'll find it through the references section anyway.
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Since the article is protected, there's no point in warning our readers of rapid change. Anyhow, the current event template is explicitly not supposed to be used the way it is used in this article. --
1771:, that is, victims who were injured but not killed by accidents. BLP does not cover deceased persons, though of course all other Knowledge (XXG) guidelines (information must be from reliable sources,
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From what I have heard, and what makes SENSE, monorail purple was in the station (Austin the driver in the front), then monorail pink backed into monorail purple. It happened while switching tracks.
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for the content in the destination pages and must not be deleted as long as the copies exist. For attribution and to access older versions of the copied text, please see the history links below.
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knowlegde of the system and the direction, and of how the trains operate. any body that has been there will know the direction of the tracks. so i will correct the statement. thank you
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added by naming the victim. Note also that some editors feel that minors should be given more protection from being named (although this is not yet policy: see the discussion above at "
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When you have a long ToC, like this article does, that would push the article content way down, making it tough to read. This format appears to be much better, in my opinion. --
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about the recently deceased, but not to the name itself. This, the correct interpretation of this policy, has already been established by precedent throughout Knowledge (XXG).
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Have things settled down sufficiently? With initial findings from the NTSB out now in reliable sources, there is good, citable information that can be added to this article.--
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I too, could claim that you are misinterpreting policy. As stated above, the victim's name is secondary to the incident being reported, and is otherwise non-encyclopedic.
1600:". This means that BLP would still apply to the deceased, and if we wouldn't mention their name when they were alive, why should we change course when they are dead?
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Hi Ford - please remember to sign your posts using four ~ characters. Regarding your comment: yes we must believe what we read as WP policy states that we can't use
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Am I right in understanding your opinion that it isn't against the policy to include the name, but is arguably unnecessary for the particular article in question?
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article, then perhaps it should be included there, instead, to match other transit-related incident articles (such as the recent Washington Metro collision). --
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here is a cite for 1974 monorail crash. this is an archived post from monorail society, dave simons appears to be some kind of monorail expert. I would use it.
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The color of the monorail frankly is irrelevant, hence its outright removal. And "facts" from pictures are not facts. Pictures are not reliable sources. --
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My reading of the guideline as it currently stands is that the names of victims should not be stated unless there is a consensus among editors active at "
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the other. No passengers were seriously injured, but 21-year old (name removed per policy, see below... -Spike), the train operator, died at the scene.
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on Tokyo Disney Resort, and because of a lack of such an article (possibly for lack of incidents involving same), would now be the time to start up the
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But I will not post this on the main page b/c I'm not 100% sure that is what happend and neither should you post what you think happened. Only facts!
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In the case of deceased individuals, material must still comply with all Knowledge (XXG) policies and prompt removal of questionable material is proper
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Concur that the context of the incident will not be lost if the victim's name is not given. If, in the future, enough information appears to start a
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individuals who are not directly involved in an article's topic adds significant value." You are misinterpreting the policy, I will readd the name.
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Plus, this is pure speculation. What are you citing this information from? You are making this up as you go along and it isn't good information.
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If the victim is injured but still living, that's another matter and BLP applies, but if the victim is deceased, then it's ok to mention the name
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ok so you beleive everything you read. the pics clearly show red monorail being being peirced by purple. clearly shown. lets use common sense.
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Incident added as the suit references other cases that have gone to court. If it ends up with payment or acquital, we'll indicate the result.
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BLP1E does not prohibit mentioning the vicitim's names in this case. Please check it again. The policy states that there should not be an
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pictyres from the emplyee took right in the station. what you said above does not make SENSE. purple was moving from epcot to the station.
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1807:(as opposed to failing the previously mentioned WP:BLP). Thanks to everyone who shared their opinion; it was most helpful on many levels.
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I would like this page to include the crash between two monorails at 2 A.M. EDT near the Transportation and Ticket Center. One monorail
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and its affiliated companies on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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and other involved people. So yes, it should be fine to list those names in the articles you mention if supported by the sources.
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Should the names of key figures (those in control of the trains, for instance) be included in articles about train wrecks, such as
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Is there a specific reason why the Table of Contents is on the right hand side, not the left? I thought the left was the norm.
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Discussion on this topic has been renewed. If you are interested in participating, please join the conversation at
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Jimmy Wales says remove the 1974 incident because there are no reliable citations for it. simple, end of story.
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Biographies of living persons/Archive 21#Dealing with articles about the deceased
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BUT WAIT!!!! despite this being advice from jim wales, it's an internet posting, hence NOT RELIABLE!!!
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http://www.disneypix.com/forums/post/index5/93/Valentines-Day-1974-Mororail-redblue-monorail-collision
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other editors find this alleged incident notable enough, it should be added. My vote is it's not. --
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This has been a recurring topic of conversation on the various amusement park "Incident" pages (ie
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Again, as stated before - just because other articles allow it doesn't mean it can apply here.
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in this case, the name can now be included in Knowledge (XXG). The BLP policy does apply to
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Talk:Incidents at Disneyland Resort#Twilight Zone Tower of Terror: allow first-hand account?
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at Kentucky Kingdom two years ago. Can those more familiar with the BLP policy assist?
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was already created, and redir'd to this page. Comment on what Cla68 says above (
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It is policy to remove a person's name if they are known for only one thing, per
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it is clearly the red monrail. look at the pictures. that is not pink monorail.
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provided above as WP:CITE does not support forum posts as valid WP references.
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I just read that a Woman is suing disney after she was groped by Donald Duck.
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Considering that this page is not itself a list, I recommend a page move to
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article, so info on the quake aftermath at the park can be moved there? --
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Talk:Incidents_at_SeaWorld_parks#RFC:_including_or_excluding_victim_names
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way to go jimmy, about the tree falling and such. i am on your side...LOL
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Or should the article instead follow Knowledge (XXG) guidelines like
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http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2006-May/046440.html
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Just thought I'd clarify that my earlier remarks were concerning
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Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information
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No, BLP only protects living people, not deceased people: see "
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2292:) 16:52, 8 January 2019 (UTC) I second this (list of lists)
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Incidents at Disneyland Resort#Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
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http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/News.html#Anchor-WDW-49575
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The discussion at the article, including my rationale, is
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From what I can tell, the relevant part of WP:BLP is "
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Should victim's names be included in Knowledge (XXG)?
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Proposal: Move to Lists of incidents at Disney parks
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Time to start up "Incidents at Tokyo Disney Resort"?
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Biographies of living persons‎
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2307:Ex employee of Disneyland fake workman's comp.
1495:" and comment on it if you wish to). — Cheers,
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2371:WikiProject Roller Coasters articles and lists
2184:I deleted it since there's no page about it.
1493:Proposed changes to "Privacy of names" section
575:another monorail train" or something similar.
8:
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366:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Amusement Parks
2366:Unknown-importance roller coaster articles
2341:Unknown-importance amusement park articles
2252:Sometimes the end is only the beginning...
439:
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2245:Should Hong Kong and Shanghai Be Removed?
1590:2009 Walt Disney World monorail accident‎
1571:2009 Walt Disney World Monorail collision
1416:and has been copied here with permission.
1412:The following conversation took place on
1057:Please look at the photo in this link:
407:Walt Disney Parks and Resorts task force
932:indeed happened because disney said so?
441:
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2356:Walt Disney Parks and Resorts articles
239:Incidents at Walt Disney World Resort
7:
2212:"Incident at Disney Studio, Burbank"
484:This article is within the scope of
369:Template:WikiProject Amusement Parks
346:This article is within the scope of
2158:, I have copied this discussion to
2066:being placed on the effects of the
298:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
2386:Unknown-importance Disney articles
2361:List-Class roller coaster articles
2336:List-Class amusement park articles
2271:Lists of incidents at Disney parks
1315:An example of one edit in question
543:Errors in Monorail accident report
504:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Disney
14:
1153:Talk:Incidents at Six Flags parks
50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
25:List of incidents at Disney parks
2072:Incidents at Tokyo Disney Resort
1908:
1839:To be clear, this RfC addressed
471:
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45:Click here to start a new topic.
1882:Removing current event template
1823:2008 Chatsworth train collision
2156:Incidents at Disneyland Resort
216:Incidents at Disneyland Resort
1:
2180:Deleted incidents at Hon Kong
1877:18:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
1827:1987 Maryland train collision
1270:Incidents at Cedar Fair parks
951:Knowledge (XXG):Verifiability
498:and see a list of open tasks.
424:This article is supported by
404:This article is supported by
360:and see a list of open tasks.
324:Walt Disney Parks and Resorts
262:Incidents at Disneyland Paris
42:Put new text under old text.
2238:03:30, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
2205:17:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
2052:15:12, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
2028:08:08, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
1262:Incidents at Six Flags parks
2396:WikiProject Disney articles
2322:01:12, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
2104:: allow first-hand account?
2006:01:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
1988:01:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
1972:23:41, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
1775:) apply to them. — Cheers,
729:July 2009 monorail accident
507:Template:WikiProject Disney
349:WikiProject Amusement Parks
2412:
2381:List-Class Disney articles
2302:21:20, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
2174:18:14, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
2148:18:10, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
2119:18:06, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
2093:21:35, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
953:and use some common sense.
526:project's importance scale
427:Roller Coasters task force
388:project's importance scale
2260:18:04, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
1854:11:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
1787:11:13, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
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1266:Incidents at Disney parks
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1112:14:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
1014:21:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
949:maybe you should reread
908:03:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
871:03:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
834:03:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
814:02:58, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
786:03:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
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683:01:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
639:00:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
605:01:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
585:00:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
558:01:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
2376:Amusement park articles
1955:Incident For Characters
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492:The Walt Disney Company
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100:Neutral point of view
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