1590:.) I removed the relevant entries. Usually, removing unsourced entries in list articles is totally uncontroversial, almost the only time anyone objects being when a spammer objects to his or her spam edit being removed, but that is rare, as spammers usually just post their spam and move on, never seeing that their spam has been reversed. This occasion turned out to be an exception, as you reverted what I did, giving an edit summary warning of blocks and bans. I have explained my reasons, and you have explained you position. Although you do not explicitly say so, your attitude seems to be that you wish to include as many pornography companies as possible, and view the need to show notability as secondary, rather than viewing the need to exclude non-notable content as primary. Whether that is a correct reading of your view or not, however, nowhere have you given any reason why this edit should be an exception to the policy that when unsourced content is removed, it must not be restored without providing reliable sources. Since you have posted numerous messages about this since I first posted about it to your talk page, you have had plenty of opportunity to provide such a reason if you have one, so I assume you don't have one. I shall therefore remove the unsourced content again. Please do not restore any of it without providing reliable sources, as doing so will be a violation of a Knowledge (XXG) policy which has been pointed out to you. I also strongly recommend not restoring any of it without sources providing coverage of a suitable nature to satisfy Knowledge (XXG)'s notability guidelines, justifying having articles on the relevant businesses, as doing so is against practice which has widespread consensus behind it.
1586:
Knowledge (XXG). From experience, I know that such listings are usually spam, and in this case, I knew that some of them were, since, as I have explained, that is why I was there in the first place. However, whether they are spam or not, there is rarely justification for including companies in list articles without evidence that they are notable enough for inclusion in
Knowledge (XXG). (Indeed, a criterion very commonly employed is that if a business is not notable enough to be the subject of an article then it should not be included in a list. That principle is described at
1722:, I'm not sure how to source this, but its a fairly huge issue within the industry. Due to issues such as HIV and the transmission of other STDs, the mainstream porn segment (boy/girl and girl/girl stuff) tries to distance itself a bit from the boy/boy segment. Nearly all of the media reported contractions of diseases can be traced to performers who are involved with the boy/boy segment. Its by no means exclusive as there has been some widely reported HIV incidents in the mainstream adult segment. Who immediately comes to mind is
1617:, as I had mentioned, I've started working on finding sources for the entries on this list. It's quite a sizable list, so it take some time to work down it. Your Admin status notwithsatanding, I'm just another good faith Editor like yourself and I know from experience that its far easier to add references to an existing list than to have to recreate major portions from a previous dif. I am not questioning your application of Policy nor am I making assumptions about your attitude so I would appreciate if you would
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different studio websites for a performer that has worked for many different studios.) I've had to defend this practice as it is often seen as falling into this prohibition; the only way I have salvaged using the links is to point out that I'm linking to the sites not to sell the videos, but to obtain information about them which is rarely found anywhere else. Linking to a site for a specific type of information is far different than linking to a website in general.
1895:. Knowledge (XXG) is not built around conforming to the communities the article are written about, but about the factual content itself. If this is a list about pornographic studios then that is what the list needs to reflect. Gay or straight, pornography is pornography and there is no caveat in this list that sets a separation for the two genres. I vote the list be a pure list of pornographic studios, regardless of the content they produce.
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1568:, I'm not sure if we're having this discussion here or on my Talk page, but I just wanted to let you know that I'm working on a sources for citations for the entries on this list. What makes it difficult is that many studios also provide others services to the adult industry. I'm trying to make sure that I'm referring to the correct operation. I've asked at least one other Editor for assistance. Regards, --
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1684:(iafd.com) seemingly has the most complete list of production companies, but there is no easy way to access a fixed URL for each studio. That leaves AVN.com, XBIZ.com, and the respective websites for each company for sourcing. I've made an inquiry about access to links on IAFD, so we'll see where that leads. --
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Hey all. I'm new to this end of the galaxy but I wanted to state that Keith
Manheim Studios (KM Studios) has released at least five films so far. Another point of interest in this discussion might be that some of the studios already up there only have a single release. Now what qualifies a studio
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My attention was drawn to the article because it was edited by a spammer, with whose disruptive editing I was dealing with in my capacity as an administrator. Looking at the article, I saw a huge number of listings of companies without any reference and without any corresponding articles in
English
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biographies also contain information scattered throughout them, as do a number of interviews with adult film stars and directors—usually appearing in places like "Frontiers," "Bay Area
Reporter," "The Guide" and "Chicago Gay Times." Heck, even "Genre" and "The Advocate" have done articles on Chuck
1212:(Falcon Studios) was speedy-deleted. The major reason for the deletion was that there was no independently published information about the company cited as sources for the information in the article—only information from the company's website itself. (The discussion about deleting the article is at
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article as well—if a performer is listed who isn't important enough to "reasonably expect an article" to be "forthcoming in the future", the name is deleted from the list. Likewise, external links to performer websites have been removed from the list and where there is an article on the performer,
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As someone who worked very hard to find those references, I can tell you it wasn't easy, even for a studio that's been around for a very long time. A newly-formed studio with few releases is not likely to have much information about it available as a source of information for an article about the
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content that is unsourced may be removed, and must not be restored without such sources being provided. That is a matter of
Knowledge (XXG) policy, not my personal view. There is nothing in any relevant policy that says that there is a limit to how much unsourced content may be removed, which I
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I don't have time to do this right now. Those studios are really important, especially the first one I mentioned - very popular. There is no policy to avoid red links. I've removed red links to non-notable studios from this list in the past and only kept links to major studios. I know this biz.
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That said, if you merge the content, it will likely be reverted by someone in the Porn
Project or that simply has it on their watch list and understands the industry. I'm not trying to deter you, as I personally hate the section titles and I'm the one who came up with the current version. The
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While I have advocated using external commercial sites as sources of information for videographies, the purpose of such use is to to obtain very specific information, i.e., a performer's videography. (More often than not, I use a commercial video retailer to avoid having to reference several
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How come lesbians are not included in homosexuals? This is funny. Homosexual means both lesbian and gay. It is true most heterosexual men watch lesbian pornos, as they do not see lesbian relationship serious, but this cannot mean they are in the same category.
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to be a studio? As a producer myself, it is a major achievements having found a distributor willing to distribute the DVDs you want to make, and after that a release-date schedule kicks in and movies get released on regular basis from that date.
990:"Links that are added to promote a site, that primarily exist to sell products or services, with objectionable amounts of advertising, or that require payment to view the relevant content, colloquially known as external link spamming."
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The criteria for the division seems extremely arbitrary, and the page just says "this page is divided into two lists" with no justification. If no one presents a compelling reason why the divide should exist, I'm going to merge them.
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I have downloaded the studio list from tlaReleasing. There are 799 studios on the list; obviously, some of them are quite specialized and probably have never been heard of by people in the US. Any ideas on how to use (or not) this
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Is it really relevant to state that a studio produces gay content next to the studio name in the list? This is a list of pornographic studios, and whether they produce gay content or not seems irrelevant to the list as a whole.
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Thanks for the explanation. It would be cool if someone found out how the distinction is referred to in the industry, or at least wrote up something to the effect of what you said in the lead, but at least this is here now :)
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If they were truly that important, then they would have a page of their own, and the link would not be a redlink. A redlink is of little use to anyone. Suggest create the pages for the studios first and then add the links.
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Is there anyone (besides me) that find the section titles for this article, "1 Studios that exclude male-male and male-TG sex" and "2 Studios that include male-male and male-TG sex", incredibly homophobic and POV laden?
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I recounted; the website lists 810 studios. (That includes "legitimate" studios as well as pornographic studios.) Obviously, we won't ever have 799 articles on studios; some of them made one or two films and folded.
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I know that adding all the external links to the homosexual studio names was an incredible amount of work; however, according to my reading of
Knowledge (XXG) policies, it shouldn't be done. Please see
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Even more to the point about removing a ref to gay content (and I agree a porn studio is a porn studio, regardless of content) but the listing says "includes gay content" beside studios which produce
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Holmes and Falcon. Agreed, it's not easy getting some of this information. Not every library contains back issue of "The
Advocate" or "Manshots." But the information is out there, and published. -
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I think the article should not be merge with Gay Porn
Studios as the content is different from main stream and diserves it's own page. Gay Porn Studios page is not just a list of gay porn studios.--
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If an article is written, it must cite reliable sources for the information in the article—and they should include third-party sources, not just source published by the topic of the article itself
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It seems that should be a list of studios that are important (or "notable", if you must) enough to warrant an article on
Knowledge (XXG), not just a list of studios because they are studios.
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assume is what you mean by referring to "wholesale deletion". On the contrary, the larger the amount of unsuitable content there is in an article, teh more important it is that it be removed.
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It makes no sense for there to be so many red links and spammy external lists on this list; I am going to be bold and remove those (consistent with discussion about external links above).
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1891:. I have read previous discussions and I understand why the porn community has a general separation of gay content versus straight content, however it seems totally unnecessary for an
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I hope this was informative even though I imagine this isn't the information you wanted to be given; the policies and guidelines wouldn't seem to support an article about the studio.
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Technically, then, this list needs to be culled to only include studio names that should eventually have articles here. I'm not up to the task of culling the existing list, however.
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As for studios that only have one film released, those studios—along with many of the other studios on the list—don't belong here—but I don't have time to go back and cull them.
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Which of the pieces of content that I removed was sourced? If by mistake I removed anything that had a reliable source, then please restore it, but by Knowledge (XXG) policy
1306:"Ideally each entry on the list should have a Knowledge (XXG) article but this is not required if it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future."
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used to have a separate publication for "gay male" releases, but it was merged into the main publication a few years ago. The AVN awards have been kept separate though.
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and give me the same consideration. I have no intention to re-add any content without sources now that you have pointed out the flaws in this List article. Regards, --
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to a Knowledge (XXG) article on the studio which could then contain a link to the studio's website as a source of information for the article. For example, see
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I will be the first to admit that this List needs cleanup and references added, but it needs to be done in a reasonable manner. Wholesale deletion like this
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I got some more studios that could be added to the list eventually.There's California wildcats,Sappholovefilms,Realitygang... I'll add some more later.--
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Actually, there is quite a bit of published information out there on Falcon Studios/Falcon Entertainment. But a person would have to have access to
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Now that the relevant policy has been pointed out to you, and you are aware of your mistake, I trust you will revert your mistaken edit promptly.
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In order to warrant an article (and hence inclusion on the list), a studio needs to meet notability guidelines; the most common of which is that
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Hi—and welcome. First, you had your post in the right place to start with—new posts go at the bottom of pages unless the page states otherwise.
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What do you mean by "even for porn related articles"? Why should "porn related articles" be treated any differently than any other articles?
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1380:, much more than some of the studios listed here. Major studios marked there in red. I've restored the links, Pls do not remove them.
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944:. Sources available in both web and print editions should have a citation for the print edition as well as a link." (emphasis added)
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with regard to this; someone else will need to step up and "police" the list before the whole thing gets nominated for deletion.
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To all concerned or interested: I've started working on locating references for each entry for this list on this version
133:-related topics on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The list itself should be a list of studios that need to have articles written about them, not just a list of studios
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I agree. I also suggest removing the country because today the dissemination of content is global via the internet.
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You know thats a good point.Although I think there's a different view point because of double standards maybe?--
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I'm not known for my brevity, but I wanted to give a really complete reason for removing all the links. Thanks.
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Going forward, anyone considering adding a studio to this list should keep in mind the following from the
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without any discussion is frowned upon, even for porn related articles. So lets please work together to
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To try to summarize, here's things to consider before adding the name of a studio to this list:
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For the record, insight into these questions can be found in the archive of this ANI discussion
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333:-related issues on Knowledge (XXG). For more information, or to get involved, please visit the
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IS there anyway to segregate US porn studios statewise? Like how many are in CA,TX,NY etc?
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previous versions came across as a little homophobic. But the industry is what it is. --
1847:. The goal is to keep a single list, without being separated by country or gay content.
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1795:'Coat Corporation' is missing. It's a gay pornographic studio from Japan. Website:
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Knowledge (XXG) is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files
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Knowledge (XXG):What Knowledge (XXG) is not#Knowledge (XXG) is not a directory
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Hope that gave some input into this endless talk about who is and who's not.
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if it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future
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should be linked to in a references section, not in external links. See
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A good way to begin editing at Knowledge (XXG) is to review the three
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Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy...
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Studios like "Platinum X Pictures" and "DVSX" have 300+ titles each
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To test the reasonableness of your expectations, you encouraged to
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Knowledge (XXG):Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies
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Knowledge (XXG) is not an indiscriminate collection of information
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I agree and will keep an eye for something appropriate. Thx! --
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Other helpful information can be found in the articles below:
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himself but not his studio...at least maybe not yet anyway.--
671:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
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gay content, not just 'includes' Remove that altogether
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Knowledge (XXG):Reliable sources#Types of source material
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Do you know any pornographic movie studio from Romania?
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Knowledge (XXG):Notability (companies and corporations)
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These guidelines and policies have been applied to the
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Knowledge (XXG):Criteria for speedy deletion#Articles
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Falcon Studios
420:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
129:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
701:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1977:List-Class High-importance Pornography articles
247:. To improve this article, please refer to the
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1158:Knowledge (XXG):Criteria for speedy deletion
1139:Knowledge (XXG):What Knowledge (XXG) is not
892:Knowledge (XXG):What Knowledge (XXG) is not
663:, an attempt to structure and organize all
540:Category:Company articles needing infoboxes
527:Category:Company articles needing attention
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1166:item 7 regarding importance of the subject
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489:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
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243:. To use this banner, please refer to the
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1301:Knowledge (XXG):Lists (stand-alone lists)
950:Knowledge (XXG):Lists (stand-alone lists)
667:. If you wish to help, please visit the
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1843:I changed article organization, after
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1116:Knowledge (XXG):Neutral point of view
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565:Help expand stub articles located at
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832:What about Viv Thomas Productions?
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739:common list selection criterion #1
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911:m:When should I link externally
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321:This article is of interest to
163:This article has been rated as
30:on 21 June 2018. The result of
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2017:WikiProject Companies articles
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1313:and then add it to this list.
1051:. I'm already maintaining the
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942:Knowledge (XXG):Citing sources
929:"Sites that have been used as
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779:) 18:31, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
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665:list pages on Knowledge (XXG)
428:and see a list of open tasks.
137:and see a list of open tasks.
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1693:17:59, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
1682:Internet Adult Film Database
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980:Links normally to be avoided
875:The merge has gone a head.--
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2007:List-Class company articles
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1698:Why is this list split?
1504:"Frowned upon" by whom?
729:To be included on this
126:WikiProject Pornography
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1000:List of gay porn stars
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1797:http://www.coat.co.jp
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913:for some guidelines."
604:requests for comments
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1039:See Knowledge (XXG)
149:Pornography articles
1292:Inclusion criterion
973:Lucas Entertainment
963:." (emphasis added)
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233:join the discussion
1074:Qualifying studios
953:Selection criteria
62:content assessment
1816:
1804:comment added by
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925:section states:
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553:Portal:Companies
495:Article requests
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18:
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1896:
1893:encyclopedia
1888:
1868:
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1842:
1823:
1800:— Preceding
1794:
1732:AVN magazine
1701:
1676:
1638:
1615:JamesBWatson
1612:
1598:JamesBWatson
1592:
1566:JamesBWatson
1526:JamesBWatson
1520:
1511:
1486:JamesBWatson
1474:
1471:List cleanup
1454:
1435:
1397:
1374:
1331:
1308:
1305:
1298:
1295:
1270:Joey Stefano
1265:
1261:
1258:Chuck Holmes
1253:
1247:
1232:
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1099:
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809:information?
807:
789:
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745:for its own
669:project page
658:
586:|Companies}}
572:
571:
558:
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545:
544:
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531:
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344:LGBT studies
335:project page
323:
322:
316:LGBTQ portal
288:LGBT studies
226:
164:
124:
68:WikiProjects
35:
1941:exclusively
1724:Cameron Bay
1650:Rebecca1990
1335:—Preceding
1303:guideline:
982:section in
769:Serkanbulan
763:—Preceding
220:Film portal
140:Pornography
131:pornography
87:Pornography
1961:Categories
1918:DeniedClub
1778:Scalhotrod
1742:Scalhotrod
1686:Scalhotrod
1671:G S Palmer
1623:Scalhotrod
1570:Scalhotrod
1549:Scalhotrod
1492:Scalhotrod
1278:Aiden Shaw
1102:policies:
1084:Agustsmari
844:Viv Thomas
828:Viv thomas
673:discussion
339:discussion
249:guidelines
237:open tasks
58:List-class
1760:Personman
1730:article.
1720:Personman
1705:Personman
1664:Cavarrone
1371:Red links
1260:from the
986:goes on:
969:wikilinks
877:Quinnzach
868:Quinnzach
431:Companies
422:companies
378:Companies
1945:Cannonmc
1802:unsigned
1337:unsigned
1328:Lesbian?
1254:Manshots
955:states:
901:states:
862:No Merge
834:Jamesino
777:contribs
765:unsigned
588:template
547:Maintain
521:Copyedit
28:deletion
1643:Guy1890
1283:Tim1965
1226:Thanks.
1220:studio.
1100:content
933:article
756:Romania
747:article
602:Answer
534:Infobox
458:on the
167:on the
1900:Denied
1889:Change
1872:Denied
1781:(Talk)
1745:(Talk)
1689:(Talk)
1680:. The
1626:(Talk)
1619:WP:AGF
1573:(Talk)
1552:(Talk)
1495:(Talk)
1438:Yikola
1404:jones
1357:Yikola
1233:Chidom
1062:Chidom
1041:policy
1020:Chidom
921:, the
848:Yikola
816:Chidom
790:Chidom
584:portal
508:Assess
64:scale.
1480:build
737::Per
678:Lists
640:Lists
573:Other
560:Stubs
331:LGBTQ
1949:talk
1928:talk
1903:Club
1875:Club
1853:talk
1830:talk
1810:talk
1783:☮ღ☺
1764:talk
1747:☮ღ☺
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1709:talk
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1628:☮ღ☺
1602:talk
1575:☮ღ☺
1554:☮ღ☺
1547:. --
1530:talk
1497:☮ღ☺
1462:talk
1442:talk
1420:talk
1386:talk
1361:talk
1345:talk
1319:talk
1276:and
1268:The
1264:and
1047:and
978:The
940:and
909:and
852:talk
773:talk
254:Film
239:and
192:Film
159:High
36:keep
34:was
1613:Hi
1600:" (
1564:Hi
1528:" (
1512:any
1400:Ron
1147:and
917:At
697:???
450:Low
1963::
1951:)
1930:)
1855:)
1832:)
1812:)
1766:)
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1604:)
1532:)
1490:--
1464:)
1456:--
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1272:,
1252:,
1216:.)
1043::
975:.
894:.
854:)
775:•
597:}}
593:{{
582:{{
1947:(
1926:(
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1916:@
1851:(
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1645::
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1460:(
1440:(
1418:(
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1384:(
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1196:(
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771:(
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675:.
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563::
550::
537::
524::
511::
498::
462:.
341:.
251:.
171:.
70::
38:.
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