Talk:List of red-light districts

946:

buildings is Desert Inn. The area includes Sinful Social Club (Famous fetish parties, now closed), Sinsations Foot, Indulge, Hush (Hushh) Social Club, Body Spa, Roadhouse, Erotic Dancer Outfit World, Hot Bodies, Dead President Tattoo, Can Can Strip Club, Deja Vu Adult Store, And above the Mini Mart covering the 2nd floor is Pornocation.com webcams (moving to new location), Mood Watchers Astrology Reading, NiteCallsOfLasVegas.com Internet Directory, Ideal Entertainment, Ecstacy Video, Taxi & Limo Magazine, Outcall Services like VIP Entertainment, Dial Entertainment, Bad Apple, Blackstar, Candy Girls, Cheaters-Club, Elite Outcall, Strippers Inc. and others that can be located at the Las Vegas city web site. The top floor was going to converted into a social club, due to parking restrictions the business never opened. The building is owned by the same group that owns Sapphire. Stardust casino was across the street and now the Trump Tower is complete. Budget Suites located across the street was owned by Mr. Bigelow and was a common place for hooking up. Since Stardust and the Budget Suites have been removed much of the foot traffic is gone. Pedicab, a trike that can carry 1 driver and 2 passengers no longer operate in the area. Most traffic is generated by Cab and Limo drivers that bring people to the swinger clubs. Some places in Las Vegas give kickbacks to drivers that bring clients. The kickbacks can be from $ 10.00 up to and over $ 200.00 (per person). Under the bridge is a new Fat Burger and much of the street will have a major update soon as the new casino that will replace the Stardust is complete. Check out google maps or google street view for the daytime picture of the area. Both buildings have security cameras & security guards 24/7, All of owners know each other and communicate well making it a very safe area for tourists. A mini Red Light District is located at 953 E. Sahara around The Green Door, Bad Lands, Hawks Gay Gym, 8 Ball Pool, Barbie Girls Outcall and a few others near the church located at the 900 block of Karen Ave. A search on KLASTV.com will show many news reports on the adult industry including Swingers, Clubs, Lap Dancing, BDSM, Fetish and much more.

924:

the time late to turn his cab in at end of shift. Cab driver pays for gas, and radio fee.... Now the reason for the details, The drivers (Smart ones) would just make a fast trip to the locations below, make a fast $ 50 or $ 100 per person in the door (Clubs give big kickbacks (not legal)). A good driver can hit the other strip clubs around the corner and say "I know a place that the girls are full service, it's less than a mile away...", If the fair did not want to pay the full door charge then a good door person would lower the entry fee and give a lower kickback to the driver. If the clients did not want to goto the Red light Club then the driver also has the option to pitch an outcall service and make $ 100 referral fee. This killed business in the brothels for a few years. No smart drivers would make the long drive with all the local options. Cab drivers are not allowed to pander or offer outcall services, Limo drivers could say anything because they lease the limo for a shift and did not have to take radio calls.

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me of doing so! There seem to be certain flaws in your logic here. Back to lists, you have not answered my point that a list is just that, a list. Why does every entry on a list have to be sourced? They just point to other articles. That's their sole function. If the article is not sourced, then that's a different matter. Over 50% of the list entries point to extant articles, yet you seem to be suggesting that a large number of them are original research. "Not a single one of these alleged red-light districts is sourced", you say. But the articles are, and that's what's important, not the list itself. I fail to see why you are demanding that the list itself is sourced. Again, this is illogical. Knowledge is a unified whole, not a collection of separate entities. And deleting the whole section, as you did in the source article, just because some of the list items are redlinked (and therefore unsourced) is ridiculous. What about the bluelinked items that lead to sourced articles? --

920:

with full details and directions from Las Vegas. Going back a few years and related to Mustang Ranch, Chicken Ranch and Miss Mable's they have a 'Menu' with fixed prices. Cab Drivers/Limo Drivers would take the clients to the brothel, Clients enter a entry room that sometimes contained a bar with over priced drinks, a pool table or other attraction to occupy some time if all the brothel girls are busy. The madam of the house would then offer the menu and sales pitch that stated additional rules, prices or 2 for 1 specials. The client sits on a couch and all the girls come out like a Macy's day parade. Client picks who he wants and goes to that girls room. Each girl has condoms and lube personally stocked and used as a way to gain more tips or kill time. On the menu were fixed items with time limits. Most menu items were in the 400 to 700 range, I do recall a $ 100 HAND offering as the lowest price (I'm sure a menu is online someplace).

928:

anti-prostitution laws varies by country or place)." So..... find any information like I have added here would be rare I'm sure. Verified, I would think that Wiki is interested in Original content that is related to the main topic. Wiki will be around forever where all google searches give different results and like said before sites come and go. Maybe a timeline would be best, in NY for example, the girls would float from area to area to avoid getting caught so a map/tracking system might be best (Independents post on Craigslist till a year ago when police started to setup stings).

512:

technically available or not. It is also normal to tag an article asking for sources, not to just cut a large chunk of text or tag an article for deletion when it does not meet the criteria for that tag (in fact, the policy you quote says as much). It's all about good manners and not deleting other people's work unless it's blatantly unencyclopaedic or rubbish. I happen to feel much more strongly about that than I do about sourcing every little piece of information, particularly when much of that information can be readily confirmed with a brief internet search. --

1171:, a citation is needed for any material challenged or likely to be challenged. There are many well known red-light districts that are not listed simply because some editors have prosecuted a campaign of removing unsourced entries without regard to likelihood of challenge. It's not correct to remove any and all unsourced entries. I'm not saying that any random street should be added, but areas that are well known as present or historic areas of prostitution should be on this list and do not require citations per wikipedia policy. For example, 194: 167: 204: 932:

would be best for Wiki over all and someone hit on the point that Information is posted but the posted may not know how to add or the format/location. Above I crossed over Drivers, Brothels, Escorts, Swinger Clubs and Strip Clubs. I could post about the crews that pass out cards on the strip and also about the racks on the street including the content of the magazines, cost, who owns most of them and how they are stocked. Any advise or links to where I can learn how to format the content would be a great help.

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put it there get this information? People who live there or own property on this street probably do not appreciate this unsubstantiated claim. There is absolutely nothing preventing goofballs from adding any kind of false junk information to this article. Some of these entries seem to be original research from people who thought to themselves, "hey, I saw a girl who looked like a hooker on such-and-such street, I think I'll add it to Knowledge".

270: 99: 81: 308: 50: 21: 320: 2185: 562:, they should all be in the individual articles. If you cant seem to find a citation, then bring your camera next time. Just because a citation is missing is no reason to delete an well developed article; I really dont know what you people seem to expect, most red light districts dont have websites that can be sourced. -- 698:

wanted them. Every major town may have places used by prostitutes, but that's not the same thing as a well-established red-light district (which is usually mentioned, if it exists or existed, even in ordinary travel guides). If you can't write an article about it then it probably shouldn't be listed here. --

1968:. There can be no objection to deleting any entries without citation or not blue-linked to an article with citations. I think there's a lot of BS here. I'm not going to do mass deletions but I am going to delete one red-linked item without citation that I personally know to be BS (Commercial Rd, London, UK) 1588:

Opinion: As I look at this article and read the old discussion above on maintainability it seems to me that the issue needs to be resolved. That is, the list is not "complete" by any definition and it does not appear that it is really headed toward being "complete." I would say that one of two things

1380:

Most of the lists with strict inclusion criteria involve very controvercial topics... where a less strict inclusion criteria resulted in heated POV debate and edit warring. Others are lists where inclusion could be potentially harmful to those listed. These all fit a pattern. So the question is...

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Note: The Cab/Limo Driver will be paid 20% to 35% of all money collected inside not including the drink sales. The drive from Vegas up north to the brothels is about 90 minutes each way. Take 3 clients and maybe the driver gets $ 100 per fair, (avg $ 300-$ 400) per trip, 1/2 the cab fair, and most of

919:

100% agree on the areas north of Las Vegas, I would think anyone that looks at Red Light District or is going to travel to an area would like that information. Sherries Ranch was remodeled around 2002-2005. The new owner or co-owner was a sheriff of something of the like, 99% sure they have a website

530:

Neither is it about yours. Knowledge policy does not support your opinion, although you appear to think it does. It merely says articles should be sourced. Articles which are sourced elsewhere on Knowledge are still sourced. I despair of people who favour deletion over addition of content and seem to

374:

Do a Google search. And please give details. Which entries "seem to be original research from people who thought to themselves, "hey, I saw a girl who looked like a hooker on such-and-such street, I think I'll add it to Knowledge""? What is your basis for these assertions? Many of these (probably the

1512:

What else is there to call it? You've repeatedly made bad faith edits, you've ignored wikipedia guidelines, you've removed sourced information, you've refused to participate in discussion and ignored consensus. You asked an impartial admin to weigh in, which was a great idea, but since then you've

1392:

With this in mind, I think tagging (with eventual removal possible after everyone has been given a reasonable time to look for sources) is a far better standard than removal for this article. However, I also think that if someone can express a specific reason that a specific entry should be removed

511:

I stick to my opinion about lists and the articles they link to - if the source is in the article then that information is already sourced on Knowledge and does not require another reference. And I don't think your point about nothing being lost is really relevant; it has still been removed, whether

442:

I didn't say you did place the original tag, but you did restore it after I had deleted it legitimately, accusing me of removing it improperly. You therefore presumably want the article deleted, or you would not have done so, thereby contravening policy yourself and yet having the audacity to accuse

393:

It's a list. Its purpose is merely to link to other articles. Many of the links already lead to articles. It is there that the sourcing should be done. There are 138 districts listed; of these, 70 are blue links. It should be the articles you're aiming your displeasure at if they're not sourced, not

363:

Not a single one of these alleged red-light districts is sourced. It is original research for an article to declare that Van Buren Street in Pheonix, Arizona is a place of prostitution, without any proof to back up this wild claim. The Van Buren street entry is redlinked, so where did the person who

1325:

Mind you, those numbers are arbitrary and I am not suggesting that sources must be provided giving exact counts. Only that a good faith effort be made to determine if the district likely meets the criteria (e.g. obviously two small huts do not meet the criteria whereas a government edict covering 4

935:

I would like to see mass content and possible related topics in the main topic. I do understand verification but I would put that on a sliding scale depending on how easy the information is to locate/depending on subject. Thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions, edit what you want of

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material. It is not a burden on the challenger to "prove a negative". True common knowledge is extremely easy to source—if you challenged that the Earth is round or that it is the third planet in orbit around the Sun, I could provide you a dozen reliable sources for that with little effort. If the

1242:

It seems like you are missing the point of what I'm saying. Continuing with the Storyville example, its notability is based entirely on its history as a redlight district. It's common knowledge, which according to WP:V does not need to be cited. Maybe the average person might not know this, but

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Of course, it's never likely to be complete, that's not my argument. My argument is that there are so many of them that the list is unmaintainable, particularly when you factor in the many defunct ones which would presumably include places like Pompeii and Ephesus. It could run into thousands, and

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ignored their opinion and continued your campaign of removing information from this page without cause. And now you're being uncivil. If you're not going to make a constructive contribution, I suggest you leave this page to editors who interested in building a consensus and improving wikipedia.

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Las Vegas, Nevada. Building located at 3135 Industrial Road. Business named "The Red Light District" Information provided to tourists and cab drivers to promote the entire area from Sapphire (the worlds largest Strip Club) to Deja Vu a strip club in the next building south. Bridge located between

697:

Well, obviously only well-established and well-known areas should be included, not streets used by prostitutes for a few months. This is supposed to be a guide for interest and research, not a travel guide for sex tourists! There are plenty of websites where people could find those if they really

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I am a member of the "c64 (Commodore) Warez Scene" and they have the same problem when logging all the groups of people. Everyone has a different view or experience even when they visit the same club on the same day, depends on what your looking for. I would think Content and related information

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I really do not see the need to source items on a list, particularly if they are sourced in the detailed articles. However, I have no objection to people doing it if they so desire. What I do object to is the arrogant deletion of other people's work as has been done by Wikipediatrix to this list

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Haven't made massive changes. Just deleted the entries without proper citation. I believe such entries are what you call "potentially harmful to the project". Seeing that you revoked all necessary changes affirms my opinion that your acting is a clear case of double standards. Otherwise I could

1821:

That might be better but I don't think wikipedia or any encyclopedia works like this. Given information needs a valid source. If this doesn't exist adding a banner which tells to add citation is not of much use since you might provide false information. in germany you would call it doppelmoral.

1600:

It seems that if the scope is constrained sufficiently it should not be hard to complete the list. But at this point the list is more a random list of items that people have inserted as they feel like it. This is not encyclopedic. The fact that any individual item in the list is referenced and

927:

Now reading your lines above, I agree you want verified sources but note that your first line of the Red Light District says something to the effect "In red light districts where prostitution is illegal prostitutes or clients may be arrested or fined if caught by the police (the enforcement of

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Had another incidence of someone removing "unsourced" links. I understand the desire for references, but I still think it's misguided. For most of these places they are well known to be red light districts, and if you follow the link to the main article it's usually right there in the first

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publish an article without any citations with maybe lots of false information (like the manchester part in this article) waiting for somebody to find proper ressources to backup what's written. I guess you made your own directives which you follow but don't call it the proper wikipedia way.

607:

says it's a red light district. It's in Category:Red-light districts. But we can't list it here without a cite? What kind of cite do you want? A sworn statement by the mayor of Hamburg saying yes, there are prostitutes on the Reeperbahn? I thought wikipedia was about providing factual

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Information on Knowledge must be reliable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources. Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and

1544:

Pardon the name change. I don't see any point in continuing discussion when you're being so disingenuous. The edit history and this talk page confirm everything I've said. If you want to contribute constructively, that would be great, but if not, please stop disrupting wikipedia.

428:

Firstly, I did not place the tag originally, someone else did. Secondly, nominating the article for AfD is not the proper action to take when one wants an article to be properly sourced. And yes, lists do have to be sourced, especially with controversial subjects such as this. See

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on a strict standard of "citation at the time of inclusion". I don't think the article is going to erupt into edit wars and POV debates over whether a given street or area is included. I also don't think being included in this list will harm the district or those living in

1175:

is not on this list, even though its status as a historical red-light district is not in doubt and has never been questioned. If you feel than an entry needs a citation, tag it, or better yet, research it and add one. Removing entries should be avoided unless justified.

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my information given to best suit the global topic. After reading everyones input on red line subjects and insert/delete comments that this is the best place for me to learn your system and also offer content/information that you would not find anyplace else on the net.

1344:

I went ahead and restored several that had been improperly removed. I also added a few notable omissions. If any editor thinks citations are needed, indicate so by using a fact tag. Simply removing entries without discussion will be taken as a bad-faith edit.

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I have removed the statement that Cheonho-dong has one of the largest red-light districts in Seoul and its associated source. The source in question (rocketreports.com) cannot in any way be considered reliable, as it is an anonymous blog loaded with sex ads.

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tends not to be as broad as often thought. Consider whether the knowledge is common to editors and readers on the other side of the planet or from different cultural backgrounds. That said, Blueboar is right that tagging is a more collaborative approach.

1765:

Allright Kuguar. Together we can wok on this article. I am busy deleting all entries without citation to not harm the project. I guess we should check all given citations since they are not really valid ressource if I understood you right.

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you love to quote, which quite clearly state "If anyone, including the article's creator, removes Template:Prod from an article for any reason, do not put it back"! Seems quite clear to me. If you want to propose it for deletion under

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pages and do some simple edits first. Making massive changes to articles without discussion is general not a good idea. This article in particular involves some complex issues and has been the subject of much discussion (see above).

31: 688:(lots of unintentional innuendo here!) It would be too long, and has two problems in, a) its vastness, and b) the speed with which these areas come and go. In Edinburgh, they often appear and disappear in a matter of months.-- 2569: 1527:

I haven't removed sourced information and I did responded in this discussion. Consensus here is not that clear. But I will see if the fact tags ever gets cited, but I don't have high hopes on it. I suggest you read

635:

However, I think it is unmaintable. Almost every city of a few hundred thousand, and usually not under a particularly despotic regime has one. There must be hundreds and hundreds of such places around the world.

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This list of red light districts on wikipedia is not even close to "all known urban red light districts". The mapping project clearly states that it is work in progress searching for input on various channels.

1207:

I suggested that, as you'd see if you read my comment. And if you feel strongly about any claim, you should be adding fact tags rather than simply reverting any unsourced addition. Though I feel like you're

1485:'s vandalism and added fact tags on unsourced entries. This makes it easier for editors wishing to collaborate on this article to easily see where refs are missing and add them in. Thanks to all who help! 1372:

that an entry is added (indeed in one case we require multiple sources). I have also been involved in list articles that are amazingly lax in their citation standards. The difference is in understanding

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then do so, but don't try deletion by underhand methods. Since the deletion was clearly not uncontroversial, this tag should never have been inserted in the first place. Again, according to the rules. --

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Made the references section scrollable (I did think of having it hidden with a 'show' button, but if you click on a ref in the text the page scrolls down to the references sction but doesn't open it).

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and then objected to it's removal on the grounds that it's "a project ... which tries to map all known urban red light districts". Be that as it may, it doesn't really belong here for a few reasons:

723:

perhaps there should be another list for streets used for hooking and this one should be strictly for well known red light districts, either way i think all of the information is worth keeping. --

1314:(with some flexibility; historically some cities have outlawed prostitution while they set up vice districts under other names with the specific intention of keeping prostitution contained there) 1601:

notable does not make the whole list notable. It is only notable if it is complete according to some definition (and that definition should ideally be notable to some degree or another).

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https://web.archive.org/web/20130616025853/http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/womens-rights/wr-asia-pacific/south-korea/2071-business-booms-for-illegal-brothels-on-south-korea-border.html

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Unfortunately that's not the way wikipedia works. When and if this becomes published research, there may be a way to incorporate it, but as it stands it's inappropriate to include.

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knowledge is really so common, find these sources and add them. If you can't, maybe the knowledge isn't quite so common as you thought. We write from sources, not from editors'

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the list. As I've said before, you'll find most lists on Knowledge aren't sourced, since it's difficult to source every entry on a list. Yet you're aiming at this one only. Why?

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It is interesting that the self-appointed guardians of wikipedia policies are talking about posible harms but are not interested at all to keep articles at least truthfully.

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for example. Anyway, each page has to stand on its own. Every entry in the list needs to include a citation to a reliable source that refers to it as a red-light district.

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Knowledge policy is not about your opinion. I am removing all redlinked entries for now and may remove many more later. Feel free to take this to an RFC if you wish.

1364:... I have been involved in several list articles... including some that adhere to very strict citation standards ... where there is a firm consensus that a source 2150: 1212:

by applying such a strict definition of WP:V to this article. There are plenty of list articles where there is no expectation to provide a cite for every entry.

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Dude. NONE OF THESE ENTRIES HAVE SOURCES, so why are you even arguing with me? You should have no problem getting some sources if they're as famous as you claim.

905:

There really should be an entry on Nevada, which has legal brothels scattered around most counties except Clark County (Las Vegas) and Washoe County (Reno).

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Although we could split Europe off into it's own article, there's not enough content in the other continent sections to warrant separate articles for each.

1280:. Not official policy or anything, but some useful advice that may help you understand why it's not necessary to cite every single entry on this list. 1254:, but people familiar with the region would, and it would be unreasonable to have this fact cited at every reference. And in fact, it is not cited in 433:

for example. Just because there are lots of lists are aren't sourced doesn't mean they're not supposed to be. Give me time and I'll work on those too.

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It's not even close to "all known urban red light districts", at present it's limited in scope to France, the UK, and some scattered parts of Europe

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http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/womens-rights/wr-asia-pacific/south-korea/2071-business-booms-for-illegal-brothels-on-south-korea-border.html

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majority) are famous red-light districts and are listed as such in numerous perfectly respectable guidebooks (usually as places to avoid). --

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Resolved problem of images on right on small screen - Images need to be at start of section. Moved images from gallery to right hand side --

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Define a scope for the list and get a list of all districts that meet the criteria (removing anything that doesn't meet the criteria), or

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https://web.archive.org/web/20110924152138/http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002815117_amsterdam19.html?syndication=rss

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070521181910/http://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/policing_safety/crime_law/street_sex_trade/regenerating.htm

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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The better thing to do would be to add citations if you can find them. The article's already tagged as needing improved references.

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There is not an exception for lists. Remember, nothing is ever lost; it's all avaliable as an older version in the edit history.

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http://web.archive.org/web/20110724094357/http://v.tgdn.net/2009/09/guest-post-anne-gray-fischer-history-of-the-combat-zone.html

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Very large unofficial districts that have a history at least — say — 30 years, and have housed at least — say — 100 workers.

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You've left some redlinked entries in the list, why is that? Either remove them all or restore them all. Or find sources.

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I agree. Either define a scope or delete the article. To say that this list is unencyclopedic is an understatement.

478:(twice) in its previous incarnation and proposed by her and another editor (against policy) in this incarnation. -- 2792:

https://web.archive.org/web/20071011172953/http://scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/lg/or-04/lg04-1502.htm

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

1305:

It may be helpful to establish a more specific scope for this article. For example, one could limit the list to

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Moved images into galleries (2 columns plus an image on the right can give strabge effects on a small screen).

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here to be the first to publish something, we're here to summarize and collect information already published.

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Changed method of scrolling TOC, previous template didn't hide on mobile and was superimposed over content --

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https://web.archive.org/web/20061221070439/http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/catwaust/web/myfiles/substreet.htm

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https://web.archive.org/web/20171105170332/http://gothamist.com/2017/09/08/1970s_times_square_the_deuce.php

1258:. Your application of a different standard of verifiability to this article is clearly gaming the system. 2721: 2557: 2255: 1273: 1153: 1113: 1092: 1054: 1032: 996: 988: 910: 891: 866: 831: 803: 531:

enjoy such deletion, but I frankly have more interesting things to do than continue to argue with you. --

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The mapping is taking place within a research project. Research is the basis of all wikipedia articles.

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