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2037:(i.e., respect, beneficence, and justice). I'm not sure why the section "Technical controversies" is titled as it is, and suggest it be renamed to something such as "Ethical criticisms" and "Publication" be renamed to "Peer Review," etc. Also, I'm not sure if the section on "Related research" is duplicated elsewhere? And I note there's a fair amount of typos and prose that could be improved upon. In short, the article does need reorg and editing, and extending the ethics content with reputable sources on the topic is merited. -
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The current version of the article has Ethics under
Technical controversies. Since biomedical ethics could potentially has its own section divided into the four aspects: autonomy, non-maleficence, beneficence, and justice, we propose to reorganize the page's sections into technical controversies and
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Thanks for the contribution on this page. Your edit has made the whole easier to read and understand. I'm learning how to use effective and precise wording to edit a wiki page as a wiki student editor. I have added a subsection related to bio-medical ethics to this page I would love to receive some
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The article also says that "Lulu carries a heterozygous mutant CCR5 that has a 15 bp in-frame deletion; while Nana carries a homozygous mutant gene with a 4 bp deletion and a single base insertion." This would mean Nana has higher life expectancy (since she is homozygote for the CCR5Δ32 mutation).
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The more I think about it the more I feel focusing this article more on He
Jiankui is the right thing to do. It is basically his action that have led to the event and the commentary in reliable sources currently concentrates on his involvement. He is likely to be subject to ramifications from this
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procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the
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This sub-section is indeed quite odd. I did write the text, but in earlier version, it flowed nicely with the general story. Additional text and sub-sections were added by other editor(s). It was essentially intended to give a picture of how the scientific basis was not entirely justified by the
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This page is putatively about two girls. When I worked on this last night, I tried to turn the focus to them, as much as possible. This was originally written with the topic being something like "First example of human germline genetic editing". We can change the name and focus it on the
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If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is
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will be incorrect in this case and is probably factually inappropriate unless we get some reliable independent verification. I am not terrible fussed with what adjective we use, but in order to formalise it (I wish we had this discussion before opening the requested move) I will propose
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by groups that didn't break the original AP/Technology review reports) from the 26 November is misinformed compared to 28 Nov where the researcher has put his slides up online. I am going to remove some of the 26 Nov sources (Knowledge should not focus on speculation and conjecture -
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experiment, but if we don't then when folks edit, please keep this in mind. If folks want to change the name of the page, let's talk about that. In the meantime, I am undoing some of the changes that were made, as they push it back toward the "this is about the experiment" topic.
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Thanks for the contribution on this page. I noticed that you reorganized the ethical section and has divided the ethical controversies section into several sub-section. Can you explain why you think it is necessary to add the "Misconstrual of science" section please? Thank you so
1023:, but I am uncomfortable having an article about two babies that have no agency in their notability. I think their is some policy or guideline regarding minors, but I don't have time to look for it right now. A name change could work, or else maybe a merger is best.
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See general agreement to rename this page with notable opposition to a page move based on "too soon" and "common name", so the new title should begin with that common name. The word and concept of "controversy" seems to have some approval, and the name becomes the
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The reason for the story is that it is a retracted paper which received wide media coverage. The paper with false research used to criticise He
Jiankui's experiment adds, in my opinion, to the controversy – in an interesting way. 03:55, 26 January 2020
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A few clarifications to the two above comments. There is nothing disruptive (let alone illegal) about redirecting a page to another related broader one, unless there has been some previous consensus not to do so. A central tenet of editing here is
1227:) and I see no practical way to undo all his edits in this area even if this were found to be the case. Even though this is no longer an issue with them, there are other editors banned under the same principle so I might open an
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Jytdog will not be able to propose a merger at this point so another editor will need to do so if they agree it should be merged. My concern with this article regards notability of minors. The incident itself definately meets
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I agree that citation overkill does not equate to quality or thoroughness. Cull to the essential. I normally I leave no more than two as inline citations: one scientific source and a high quality pop-report/news. Cheers,
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Also, this paper has been retracted. I mention this this so we keep in mind that a retracted paper shouldn't have a lot of coverage in the article (but I think the way it is now, with at maximum one paragraph, is ok).
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wait for verication seems best of course; however, blurb notes that the news is a "claim" - and - there seems to be a considerable amount of worthy international press coverage (clearly "In The News" so-to-speak) =:
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2033:, it doesn't look like this page is super-active anymore, but with your scholarly sources in hand, you should be able to make a good contribution here, including any that discuss the subject in the context of the
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1343:, I formally request the move. This article is, and should be, about the incident (experiment), not about the life of the two babies. I am not sure what the new title should be. Possible candidates maybe include
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1495:. Article name "Lulu and Nana" is an apparent biography name, but the twin babies are too young and have too little substantial information about them per se to have such article only using their names.--
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Your finding proves that the search term "Lulu and Nana" has been commonly used by the readers who want to find out about the incident. And I'm sure they know pretty well the article isn't a biography.
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I was thinking it might be better naming it for He. Something like "He gene editing scandal/controversy/incident". Some other controversial genetic engineering incidents are named "affair" (e.g.
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I have updated the ethics section and added a "ethical critics" section based on two scholarly articles on Dr. He's violation on bioethics. I welcome all the feedbacks and contributions.
1632:-The incident per se is real. What is pending for verification is whether the two infants have been really gene-edited as claimed by He Jiankui, and this is also a part of the incident.--
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The current version of the article says that there is a paper published in June 2019, that suggests that "the purportedly genetically edited humans may have been mutated in a way that
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of the 1st cloned primates) - there may be other related examples of this re other
Knowledge articles, I would think - in any case - Thank you for your comments - and - Enjoy! :)
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that should be covered here. Even if it turns out it is all a big fraud the incident will still be notable for the ruckus he caused. The proposed name of
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1479:(or other names than "Lulu and Nana") -It is absolutely right that "the article is certainly not a biography. It's about the notable incident" (said by
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your contribution is really detailed and some organization improvement may be considered, but overall very good contribution. Here is the link of my
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In my view, this article is not a biography. It actually talks, and should talk, about the incident, not about the life of the two babies. Maybe
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to try to garner consensus for a better name if it exists. Events are still unfolding, and that may be a significant factor in the near future.
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2) The birth of Lulu and Nana babies is real but any "gene editing" still has not been verified; how can we put that into the title then?
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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merge request and consultations. However, this is about a claim by Dr. He and whether he did it or not, it belongs to his biography. The
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1114:" news article not long ago?) - in any case - hope this helps in some way - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 15:13, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
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1607:" may be the best choice for now? - at least until there's better information available? (the other suggestions - "
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related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This morning I made edits to focus this more tightly on the girls; I moved the extensive reactions section to the
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where there are too many references for claims made in the lead section. Note that much non-specialist resources (
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edit the "ethical controversies" for coherence (re-organize) and concision (remove some of the redudancies).
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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the
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experimental editing, thus violating the biological principle. Let's give it a separate main section.
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life expectancy". The paper says that "two copies of CCR5Δ32 mutations (homozygotes) were about 20%
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1139:"Lulu and Nana" are just fictional names; the article is certainly not a biography. It's about the
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This article was the subject of a Wiki
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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as is the case here. Whether Jytdog is banned from editing these articles is up for debate (see
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I've changed some of the subject headings, I encourage you to work with other
Wikipedians to:
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1599:- good points - and reminder - esp - the incident has yet to be verified - perhaps - either "
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Happy to hear my feedback help you! Thanks for your contribution and well sourced content.
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And this would mean nothing specific for Lulu. So I believe something is weird here.
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incident in which the first genetic engineered babies were made known to the world.
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gives 27.2k results at the moment (10am/et/usa, 28 November 2018) (perhaps compare
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1424:- yes - *entirely* agree - no need to move - for the reason presented above by
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they were 76 of age". This means homozygotes have higher life expectancy.
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of possibly the 1st genetically modified humans) - may be similar to the
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make sure your section in particular links to other
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per se. If it is contested we can have a formal merge discussion...
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did not say that the names of the twin infants were borrowed from
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Just want to point out user Jytdog has been banned from Knowledge
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Reorganize and expand the technical/ethical controversies section
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has become the common name now for the controversy involving the
1512::1) The Lulu and Nana are borrowed from the anime characters in
1094:" news nominated for a possible "In The News" (ITN) entry =: -->
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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If it is retracted should we not just remove the paragraph.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
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merge request has to be done to assess it properly. Cheers,
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Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the
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FWIW - possibly relevant here as well (see copy below):
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology articles
1727:" article itself, with 21,245 counts; followed by "
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1961:Wiki Education assignment: CAS First-Year Seminar
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2011:biomedical ethics violations. I'm working with
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966:And I went further and boldly merged this into
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992:. If you still like to merge
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507:Knowledge:WikiProject Biology
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245:contentious topics procedures
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883:Hello. One issue to note is
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2035:Belmont Principles
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1729:Gene edited babies
1711:- FWIW - over 20 "
1515:Shugo Chara!! Doki
1428:- iac - Enjoy! :)
1355:. Any suggestion?
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1578:Shugo Chara! Doki
1566:November 29, 2018
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1004:. Thanks. --
990:was reverted
988:Your merger
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30:This is the
2212:Susususushi
2194:Susususushi
2180:Susususushi
2176:peer review
1888:move review
1475:to move to
1290:at any time
1269:move review
968:He Jiankui
159:free images
42:not a forum
2233:Categories
1996:Living2022
1984:LLgreenery
1976:9 May 2022
1574:He Jiankui
1556:-move to "
1454:- move to
1368:Relisting.
1339:→ ? – Per
1310:page mover
1217:to be bold
998:He Jiankui
950:He Jiankui
894:WP:CRYSTAL
889:churnalism
830:Ashmay1999
2129:Chhandama
2101:Chhandama
1884:talk page
1713:Redirects
1554:Alternate
1375:Steel1943
756:Biography
696:Biography
499:talk page
282:libellous
239:, or any
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
2198:Zhifanfu
2172:Zhifanfu
2156:Zhifanfu
2114:Zhifanfu
2106:Zhifanfu
2067:Zhifanfu
2053:Zhifanfu
2031:Zhifanfu
2017:Zhifanfu
1923:Mateussf
1903:shortens
1886:or in a
1837:Drbogdan
1803:Dekimasu
1784:Dekimasu
1773:Support
1737:Drbogdan
1673:Move to
1617:Drbogdan
1430:Drbogdan
1120:Drbogdan
1090:re the "
898:Callinus
866:Drbogdan
842:PrimeBOT
561:Genetics
251:covered.
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
2151:JDBauby
1988:Traaaco
1858:Andrewa
1709:Comment
1649:Comment
1630:Comment
1611:" and "
1597:Comment
1572:. BTW,
1510:Comment
1473:Support
1452:Support
1357:Neo-Jay
1324:, ed.
1141:notable
1098:Support
1058:Neo-Jay
1006:Neo-Jay
531:on the
504:Biology
495:biology
448:Biology
423:on the
314:C-class
165:WP refs
153:scholar
2081:Reagle
2039:Reagle
2013:Reagle
1946:(talk)
1911:before
1854:Oppose
1699:(talk)
1665:(talk)
1603:" or "
1422:Oppose
1393:Oppose
1351:, and
1278:Moved.
1241:(talk)
1033:(talk)
1021:WP:GNG
976:Jytdog
954:Jytdog
952:page.
935:Jytdog
896:). --
320:scale.
137:Google
2104:much!
1954:(UTC)
1832:names
1818:names
1634:Lvhis
1582:Lvhis
1497:Lvhis
1401:birth
1294:Kudos
996:into
396:China
387:China
343:China
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
2216:talk
2202:talk
2192:Hi @
2184:talk
2160:talk
2133:talk
2118:talk
2110:talk
2085:talk
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2043:talk
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2000:Jcic
1974:and
1941:corn
1927:talk
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1862:talk
1841:talk
1778:per
1760:talk
1756:STSC
1741:talk
1694:corn
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1382:talk
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1202:STSC
1175:talk
1167:move
1163:move
1159:move
1157:The
1149:talk
1145:STSC
1124:talk
1062:talk
1056:. --
1028:corn
1010:talk
980:talk
958:talk
939:talk
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902:talk
870:talk
846:talk
820:and
745:and
523:High
210:The
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
1938:AIR
1691:AIR
1657:AIR
1580:.--
1483:at
1308:by
1306:nac
1233:AIR
1102:-->
1052:or
1048:or
1025:AIR
840:by
619:???
565:MCB
415:Mid
271:BLP
187:TWL
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