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the cited sources that were identified as having an accent in their headlines and in two direct quotes do not actually have an accent in the sources themselves. The change of the birth names given in direct quotes seem especially egregious. I invite others to check what the sources say and to look in the article history for changes of the titles and quotes from the cited sources. —
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So far, only four editors have contributed to the discussion. It should stay open for other editors, who may have differing POVs and sources that can back up the accented name, to contribute. It may be unanimous now, but it's only been two hours, which isn't enough time. If a day or so has passed and
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The fact that the boys are
American obviously means nothing, since their father did come from Cuba, so that spelling is possible. But if you actually look at the sources in the article, the greater majority of them write about "Menendez". In addition, all film/series titles are also without the "é".
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This might seem a trivial issue, but isn't this article absolutely swimming in brand names? It's almost as though it's trying hard to rub in how wealthy the family in question was- making for a really annoying read. I'm not saying that including these are completely baseless, but detailing the brand
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this proposed move. We shouldn't be putting accents into the names of high-notability
Americans unless there is some clear reason to do that. Such a reason seems currently absent in this case. I just checked and found what appears to be evidence of improper editing of the article. At least four of
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by Rachel
Pergament. She writes that Jose and Kitty Menendez moved to Illinois in 1969 with their infant son, Joseph Lyle. Jose had been working for the accounting firm of Coopers & Lybrand, which apparently had offices in Manhattan. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean the couple lived
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But wouldn't it be better to withdraw this RM? Since there is no evidence that their names are written with an accent. And this only came about because someone on
Knowledge changed the title without consultation. While everything indicates that it is written without an accent, just like all media
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I live in
Australia, so I can't access a lot of the sources that give details about the brothers' actual identities, so I just trust that the sources have been properly checked and applied to Knowledge. Now, as I see the amount of headlines, quotes and books that have been changed, I realise that
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the move. "Menéndez" is still their real name, so it should be spelled as such in the lead, but since "Menendez" is the common name, that should be used as the article title. I will not withdraw this RM because this section should still be open for discussion so other editors can contribute their
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I tend to agree. I suggest the name of the restaurant that was purchased might be good to edit. I came here hoping to help with the backlog of BLPs lacking references, but this article seems fully referenced. As a newbie, I do not understand why this is not published and then edited further as
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I was searching
Knowledge and I could not find an article for the 2 brothers father (and victim) Jose. I find it odd since he was a Hollywood producer and a major figure at the now defunct Caralco pictures. There's no mention of him on the Knowledge article in the article on Caralco either. Does
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I did not know that at the time the change was made without consultation to add the "é". But I do agree with the change to
Menendez. If you actually look at the sources in the article, the greater majority of them write about "Menendez". In addition, all film/series titles are also without the
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From my experience with the court systems (misdeamonors, minor crimes) they consider you an adult in the eyes of the law at 16. You can no longer use your youthful offender (get out of jail free with no record) at 16. This may vary from state to state, however. I'm speaking from a
Connecticut
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Check the facts. Judalon Smyth, L. Jerome Oziel's mistress, went to the police after Oziel let her listen to a tape he had made of the confession. Oziel was the psychiatrist whom the Wiki article mentions as threatened by Erik. The facts in this article should be verified.
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According to his date of birth and time of murders, Erik was just 17 years old. Isn't this technically a minor and thus could be sentenced as a juvenile? Although even 14-15 year old murderers get sentenced as adults, just wondering if his age was a consideration at all.
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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on
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New York City at the time of their son's birth; they could have lived in one of a number of nearby towns, with him commuting to his job; Cedar Grove, New Jersey, is not out of the question. Pergament's article does, however, rule out
Illinois as the
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Was there an article at some point before that's gotten deleted? If not, then it's likely that the reason is just that no one has gotten around to it. You might want to check if there is a draft for it. If there isn't, you could create one.
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Sorry, but this is the upside down world. There is nothing in the article to indicate that the name was written with an accent, you can't even cite a source yourself. While all 94 sources in the article write the name without an accent.
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If you now oppose the move yourself, I don't understand why you say you will not withdraw it. It has been unanimously opposed. The article has about 100 cited sources and "Further reading" and "External links", and as far as I can tell,
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There's some sense of credibility, whether we disagree or not. Erik
Menendez himself witness Rosello going into a room with Jose Menendez (in 1985, the year of said assault). Right now, it's plausible speculation at this point of time.
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That is miscommunication. As what is stated in the portion of the article "The brothers claimed that when Lyle was about 8 years old, José stopped sexually abusing him and began sexually abusing 6-year-old Erik." Notice the key word,
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Having looked through the page history, it is clear that the names were changed from Menendez to Menendez without any sources and for seemingly no reason. Seeing as this is the case, their names should be changed back to Menéndez.
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As previously stated, all series and film titles are also written as "Menendez". In addition, Netflix's upcoming documentary, in which the brothers themselves give an interview, will also be released as "The Menendez Brothers".
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You also seem to forget the page was moved to the hyper-correct Menénedez without much discussion. The two brothers were English speaking Americans, not Spanish speaking Cubans. --Wester (talk) 21:51, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
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You also seem to forget the page was moved to the hyper-correct Menénedez without much discussion. The two brothers were English speaking Americans, not Spanish speaking Cubans. --Wester (talk) 21:51, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
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Yes, but even back then, they were adults. They were 21 and 18 years old at the time of the killings. It seems important because characterizing them as "boys" was part of their defense strategy, if I remember correctly.
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Thanks for reply! There's plenty of news articles on the the father so it wouldn't be too difficult to create with citations from those sources. Please forgive my typos as I tend to type quickly and fail to proofread!
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There is confusion about Lyle Menendez' birthplace. The article, based on one Web reference, says just "Illinois". Some other Web sources say New York City, New York. NNDB says Cedar Grove, New Jersey. Which one is
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I will keep the RM open for a day or so to encourage more discussion from other editors who may have differing POVs. if nothing has changed after that and the consensus is still Menendez, I will withdraw the RM.
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I've seen multiple sources state the total number of gunshots was 15, but if Jose Menendez received 6 shots and Kitty Menendez got 10, that would add up to 16 shots total. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
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I noticed that part of the article seems to have been deleted from the crime section. The section goes from describing the indictment to the retrial trial. It entirely skips the 1st, more controversial trial.
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The names were changed for seemingly no reason, yes. However, the RM should stay open to give editors a chance to explain why the "é" was added or should be kept. It's important to hear both sides.
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Before the undiscussed move of 29 September 2024 that was mentioned above, there was a previous undiscussed move on 19 April 2023 in the opposite direction. Before April 2023, the title was
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215:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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That should indeed have been "brothers" or "men". Only after seeing the series I forgot that it was already 35 years ago haha. But you understand what I meant to say.
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of the car, watch, or firearm every single time one is mentioned is quite inconsequential and detracts from the article's continuity and quality. Or is it just me? —
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After your post I found five sources that had "Menéndez" in the headline here on Knowledge, while the sources themselves also simply mentioned "Menendez"...
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The article also incorrectly included accents in the titles of five books in the "Further reading" section. None of those books have accents on Amazon. —
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According to the TV documentary I just watched, the police did not test them as initially the authorities did not consider the brothers to be suspects.
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1748:– This page was improperly moved without a consensus on the talk page, so I'm starting a formal discussion here. The reason for the move was cited as
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do you have sources that their real name includes an accent? Since all mediaworks, like documentary/film/series/book titles are all without the "é".
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perspective. I would assume that it would be incredibly rare for age to have a bearing on any serious crimes if they were 16 years old or older.
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The longstanding stable title of the article is "Menendez". It was moved without discussion to "Menéndez" in 2023, then reverted today.
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within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the
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Additionally, you cannot change the spelling of names without proper sources to back it up. Please stop removing "é" from their names.
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I somewhat doubt that this crime was mentioned in this movie when you take into consideration the fact that it was set in the 1930s.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Read the source materials linked in the article. They all mention Menenedez without é. It's the common name in English. See also
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Read the source materials liked in the article. They all mention Menenedez without é. It's the common name in English. See also
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In light of the majority of the sources used in the article spelling it "Menendez", which I didn't know were changed, I now
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Between myself and RuedNL2, a lot more sources have been found that improperly showed accents in their headlines. —
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061107093811/http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/menendez/index_1.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20141102021701/http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/menendez/life_5.html
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needed. I also don't understand this much discussion without any actual "be bold" editing. Responses welcome! —
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aasdjkajsdoqwoeqwleas,d.lzliqwoqqwlqw8e12l1ooiae.lzcu zxczx pa qwoqeasdo98qoeqi2323i23kqkwelasdyailzuqweuiacasd
2329:), per the above discussion, now appears to support "Menendez" and should probably consider withdrawing the RM.
1779:, are English speaking Americans, but still use the "é" in their names, despite sources erroneously using "e". —
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Regardless of how the page was previously moved, a proper consensus is still required before you move a page. —
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It's common knowledge that Erik was 18 years old at the time of the killings. He was born in 1970, not 1971.
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anyone else find this strange or have an explanation as to why this is? Thanks for any reply in advance!
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I noticed that it was that editor which first raised the idea of moving the page to Menéndez last year.
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it has still not resulted in any breakthrough. I like claims that are neutral and with good credibility.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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I don't see what being English speaking Americans has to do with it. Other American people, such as
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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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According to the two sources cited in the paragraph about their parents, and also the article in
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&q=Menendez,Men%C3%A9ndez&hl=en
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https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&q=Menendez,Men%C3%A9ndez&hl=en
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People Article Notesd That The Brothers claimed Abuse Stopped When Lyle Was 8 and Erik Was 6
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He also previously made a separate sex abuse claim which was able to get televised in 2014.
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Zero. I also found third one with a direct quote that incorrectly included an accent. —
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The address of the article this cites appears to have changed. It can now be found here:
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Though his claim against Edgardo Diaz would lead to the a police investigation in 2023,
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http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/05/us/estate-left-menendezes-by-parents-is-dwindling.html
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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In Season 8 Episode 20 (1996) "Married with Children", Al references them in a joke.
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Does anyone know why there’s no page for the brothers father Jose? Seems strange.
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Most likely, the defense attorneys for Erik and Lyle Menendez got it all. —
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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
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with many reliable sources; you can't just say it's common and move a page.
463:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
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http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/menendez/index_1.html
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is one improper edit that I found. It was at 04:18, 8 June 2017 (UTC) by
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http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/menendez/life_5.html
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Wiki Education assignment: Composition I - Writing Knowledge, section 2
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The same picture is used for Lyle and Erik. Its Erik's picture twice.
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I do not know how to edit references, could someone update this?
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Other important evidence that Menendez is the correct spelling,
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Any idea what happened to the remainder of the family fortune?
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How do we know that their "real name" includes an accent? —
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https://people.com/archive/life-love-behind-bars-vol-64-no-19/
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I think the redirect should go to a disambiguation page since
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Should this be formatted as "Menéndez" in the title? --
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Mid-importance Hispanic and Latino American articles
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of them include an accent in the cited sources. —
1249:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
822:. If you have any questions please ask them at the
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225:Knowledge:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography
2400:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
1963:How many, if any, sources use the accented name?
642:Why not add page about pedofile José Menendez?/
228:Template:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography
2445:B-Class United States articles of Mid-importance
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1008:Most likely, it was New York City, based on the
1808:Nit: These "boys" are 56 and 53 years old. —
2237:, their father's name was Jose, not José. —
1235:This message was posted before February 2018.
763:Fair use rationale for Image:Book menendez.jpg
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2114:nothing has changed, I will withdraw the RM.
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1429:What about gun residue on the hands
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1622:Requested move 29 September 2024
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387:Southern California task force
161:Template:WikiProject Biography
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2065:seems to not be a good idea.
1390:— Assignment last updated by
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987:20:00, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
960:23:05, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
923:20:32, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
912:00:55, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
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793:boilerplate fair use template
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562:This article is supported by
384:This article is supported by
336:and see a list of open tasks.
219:and see a list of open tasks.
24:biographies of living persons
1888:the change back to Menéndez
1676:). Please base arguments on
1400:17:31, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
820:criteria for speedy deletion
638:Suggestion to add an article
222:Crime and Criminal Biography
189:Crime and Criminal Biography
146:contribute to the discussion
2405:B-Class California articles
1043:14:23, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
36:must be removed immediately
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2283:look at Erik's wife's book
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1266:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1192:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1085:21:50, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
890:02:47, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
804:the image description page
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530:project's importance scale
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2255:Do any sources use José?
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1352:20:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
993:Lyle Menendez' birthplace
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1863:Lyle and Erik Menendez
1745:Lyle and Erik Menéndez
1740:Lyle and Erik Menendez
1680:, and keep discussion
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608:January 1 to 7, 2017
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420:Hispanic and Latino
348:California articles
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1865:for 19 years. —
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1979:BarrelProof
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1810:BarrelProof
1730:direct move
1722:current log
1693:Please use
1392:DarthVetter
1020:Quicksilver
1000:Quicksilver
998:correct? —
920:Quicksilver
851:—Preceding
2369:Categories
1726:target log
1490:Speakfor23
1344:66.91.36.8
1298:Report bug
686:Erik's age
339:California
329:California
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1713:directly.
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717:Tainted42
155:Biography
101:Biography
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2197:contribs
1682:succinct
1562:Dacroce1
1542:Dacroce1
1527:Dacroce1
1472:"began"?
1425:Evidence
1316:unsigned
1287:Cheers.—
1077:★Trekker
975:unsigned
952:Anne9853
900:unsigned
882:Juve2000
865:contribs
853:unsigned
797:fair use
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2302:Comment
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2187:Jennica
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1993:RuedNL2
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1886:against
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1670:subpage
1448:Wschart
1412:Drsruli
1308:Picture
1201:my edit
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1055:Jennica
936:Tshloab
678:Bruxism
674:senator
528:on the
366:on the
249:on the
72:B-class
2350:Mjks28
2319:Oppose
2257:Mjks28
2219:Mjks28
2203:. —
2170:Mjks28
2145:Mjks28
2116:Mjks28
2067:Mjks28
2048:Mjks28
2020:Mjks28
2018:POVs.
2015:oppose
1965:Mjks28
1904:oppose
1781:Mjks28
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1547:Mjks28
1506:Edfl22
1162:Mjks28
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