Talk:Monkey King/Archive 1

2698:. My argument on why the new depiction you provided is inaccurate, is because the Japanese depiction puts Sun Wukong, an originally Chinese cultural character and a patron deity in Buddhist/Chinese beliefs, in a bad light, depicting Sun Wukong as a short, stout, feral and ratlike creature. This is inaccurate (original depictions in Journey to the West puts him as a tall, slender-like figure), and neither is the lunar rabbit canonical nor crucial to the depiction of Sun Wukong. The earlier depiction is more accurate, and shows him in his famous "far-seeing/gazing" pose (where he puts one of his hands slightly above his eyes in a pose believed to survey for upcoming dangers and demons using his magical eyes/demon-detection vision) that is typical in his statues as depicted classically and in his temples in Hong Kong and Malaysia. 1871:

read the text in the entirety, the story of Journey To The West is largely inclined towards a Buddhist context than a Taoism context, though set within Chinese cultural beliefs. The conclusion also at the end states that both Sun Wukong and Xuanzang achieves Enlightenment and become Buddhas(or more accurately Arahants) in their own rights. These circumstances and general Buddhist orientation of Journey to the West lends further credence that Patriarch Bodhi was most likely a Buddhist sage than a Taoist one. But I am referring here to what devotees of Sun Wukong, in his form as a Buddhist protector and patron saint against evil, believe, in that Patriarch Bodhi was most likely Subhuti or the Mahayana Chan Buddhism Patriach Bodhi-Dharma.

1078:

While an appealing theorey it is one which has a lot of flaws. The introduction to Anthoney C. Yu's translation sites Glen Dudbrigde's book "The Hsi-Yu-Chi : A Study of Antecedents to the Sixteenth-Century Chinese Novel" saying that the later half of the book is almost entirely about the origin of the Wukong character and summarising some of the arguments. In contrast to the scantness of reference to such issues a lot of space is dedicated to what is basically trivia, in fact with the exception some of the first paragraph the entire article is trivia.

75:

Obviously, the character is a major inspiration for various video game and anime characters. Maybe someone should make a list article or something, so it doesn't clutter up the page as much. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not a fansite. Its about a character in Journey to the West, not the story itself. I moved the political section to a more sensible place. I scrapped some of the fan art. Cleaned up a few things, etc. The article still needs a whole lot of work, though...I didn't even touch two large sections.

31: 1166:

the ebb and flow that is Chinese culture. The tale with Buddha and the "Pillars" is a prime example, and did not appear until Buddhism was introduced to China during the Han Dynasty. Various legends concerning Sun Wukong date back to before written Chinese history. They tend to change and adapt to the most popular Chinese religion of a given era." Unless someone can cite a source for this, I suggest it gets deleted.

1616: 1536: 1173:). This states as follows: "Hanuman is also a popular deity in Tibet, Southeast Asia, Japan, and China, and throughout this area many temples are erected for his worship and districts of towns bear his name.... Outside India, rather different tales are told of himHe has been identified as the inspiration for the monkey hero of the great Chinese poem Xiyouji (“Journey to the West”)". 1846:

is also popular Buddhist protector and patron saint for protection (against evil) and scholarly pursuits in Hong Kong and among Malaysian Chinese. I can refer you to the sources if you understand Mandarin. When reading and interpreting these sources, they must be understood within their original cultural context, and not from interpretation made by the English translation material.

1927:, Vol. 65, No. 4 (Nov., 2006), pp. 713-740. This paper explains in detail why the originally Buddhist Patriarch Subhuti was used as the basis for monkey's Taoist master. The Buddhist Partiarch Subhuti and the Taoist Patriarch Subhuti are two different people in the literary context of the novel. Also, per your comments on my talk page, I don't see how Subhuti could possibly be 2436:

that can change its size and shape. He later goes on many adventures and fights many Demons and Dragons with his super human strangth. Along the way he makes many friends most that come right out of the original story. To say its of no importance would be like saying the adding of Budda at a later date has no importance to the original story.

1212:

in general and not so much on Monkey King in particular. For example, the initial story arc of DB was conceived as a loose retelling of JttW, with Bulma in the priests role on a quest for the Dragon Balls instead of the sutras, and the roles of Pigsy and the Sandy Priest filled by Oolong and Yamcha respectively. --

811:"How ze wong" is the title that Sun took on when he became king of "Fa Gwau San" (Flower and Fruit Mountain) He retains that title whenever he is at "Fa Gwau San". However, when traveling with the priest, he does not use this title. He is also called "How gur" which means Brother Monkey by the other disciples.:: Aven 678:

semi-invincible as there are several times that he is hurt, namely: 1) the gold crown squeezes his head almost to the point of popping; 2) a demon drops the weight of three mountains on him and it causes blood to squirt from his nose. These are all I can think of off hand, but I'm sure there are more examples. --

1260:, for example). As such, the same Chinese word could be written 20 different ways using the English alphabet, and none of them would be wrong. So, it's hard to say that it is definitivel pronounced one way or another, but we can try and make sure the most popular variants all point to the same spot. -- 2799:

Not really. A golem is a creature created from clay and animated through Jewish Kabbalah magic. Sun is born from a stone egg that was nurtured by the energies of heaven and earth. The golem has no spirit, is controlled by its creator, and can be killed by removing a section of the Hebrew letters used

2404:

You are misquoting policy. Undue weight only applies to some kind of an argument with two sides to the issue. And like its name implies, the "influences" section is about his impact on Asian culture, whether it be pre or postmodern. There is no underlying argument in the section. You have to remember

1994:

I have removed a large chunk of the section to the talk page until sources are found to support the claims. People are ignoring the "needs sources" tag at the top, and, by adding this stuff, are making the article worse. Sun is such a beloved character that I am appalled that the article is not above

1165:

According to the foreword to the translation I have by Anthony Yu, there are no clear known antecendents to Sun Wukong, and certainly none before the Buddhist period, which contradicts the claim that "In spite of its popularity (or perhaps because of it) legends regarding Sun Wukong have changed with

1131:

This article is lacking a lot of these. Really, if you could provide a couple sources it'd be great - it would give something to work off. Right now I'm extremely busy - I've got a paper to write in school and loads of homework. This isn't my area of expertise - but that doesn't mean I can't edit it.

2353:

Although uncited and horribly written, the info was rightly placed in the "influence" section. It should at least be noted that Son Goku from the Dragon Ball series (along with other characters) were based on Sun Wukong (Son Goku in Japanese). Of course, Goku's use of the nimbus cloud and power pole

1845:

Sources stating that the original teacher of Sun Wukong as the Buddhist Patriach Bodhi is available in the original text of Journey to the West in Mandarin, not the Western/English translations of the original text. This is also common knowledge amount the devotees of the Monkey God, Sun Wukong, who

1211:

Someone had changed the adjective "largely" to "partially" describing the influence of this character on that of Goku of Dragon Ball fame. I changed it back, and added a bit more test expounding on that. There is much more info to back it up, but most of it is more related to "Journey to the West"

1961:

Hi, I tried to encompass both buddhist and taoist "features" of Sun's first master in an understandable way. Of course, it is a huge simplification - the nature of the master is discussed by scholars with different results, as it is also the topic of the article mentioned by Ghostexorcist. The link

1077:

The more fundamental problem is that there is little content that relates to any areas of academic interest in the character. In total all I noticed in the article was the sentence "Some scholars believe he is based upon the legend of Hanuman, the Indian monkey hero from the ancient Ramayana epic."

2496:

IIRC, there was a practice at the time to put an image of a monkey, if not keep actual pet monkeys, in or around your stable as some sort of good luck practice, to ensure the strength and health of your horses. Sun Wukong's appointment to this position as "Master of the Stables" was the Celestial

2435:

I agre, the "influences" section should include the best known modren telling of the story "Dragon Ball" as the story of Sun Wukong directly influenced it. About a young Monkey like child meeting a monk and learning how to do many things from fighting to flying on clouds, he even uses a magic pole

2245:

Also, in various Shin Megami Tensei games, such as Digital Devil Saga and Persona, Wukong, under the name Seiten Taisei, often appears as an enemy or (in the case of the Persona series) as a Persona for the use of the characters. In nearly every single such game, Wukong is either high level or low

1922:

The removal of the race horse from the article is unwarranted as it serves a redirect for those who came onto this page by mistake. Something being "insulting" is not a valid reason for removal. This is an encyclopedia after all and people need to be able to find the articles they are looking for.

74:

I know these edits are probably going to start a flame/edit war, but the article really did need to be re-written. I removed most of the Trivia relating to Journey to the West (put that stuff in the Journey to the West Article.) I mixed some of the obscure anime trivia if it was poorly written.

1870:

Ghostexorcist, Before you revert the changes again on arguing whether Patriarch Bodhi is a Taoist sage, please provide your own sources to back-up your statement that Patriarch Bodhi was indeed Taoist (which English translation edition was this of the original text?). As you do know, if you have

1817:

Monkey's teacher is cast as a Taoist immortal. Please provide a source of some kind that says he is a Buddhist figure, beyond his name. Be sure to put all sourcing on the talk page so the matter can be discussed. I have reverted your edit to the most stable version of the article. Be advised that

1073:

Frankly this article is appalling. I was quite disappointed with the journey to the west article but there is so much wrong with this article that it probably needs rewritten. The article is messy, there are random modern images and more traditional images and no justification of their relevance.

2310:

not in the Film and Television section, but in the Appearances in other media section, where it is only given a single line? To quote the article on it, "many consider this 1964 iteration to be the most original, fitting and memorable." Why does the Indiana Jones script for a film that was never

2269:

The article has need of sources, can someone PLEASE tell me why Journey to the West is not a source? It has the entire legend of the Monkey King, Sun Wukong. Stop getting idiots who only know of anime refernces to edit this article (I mean, I know a couple too like a cameo in the latter part of

183:

Please say more about how the link to the historical person might lead to confusion; I'm new to wikipedia so I may not be aware of the various ways things get messed up. I found the connection useful as I wasn't aware that Tang Priest character was rooted in an actual person -- as a reader I

113:

The entire section "making trouble in heaven" is chock full of odd language. This sentence especially "He proved to be an incorrigible monkey, however, after Jade Emperor looked down at him and didn't invite him to a royal banquet, he was scarfing down the Empress's Peaches of Immortality and

2405:

that this is an article solely about Sun and not about any other character from his novel. So it doesn't matter if duplicate information is mentioned on another article. (What is the "IPC article" anyway?) Since Goku is known the world over, he should definitely be mentioned in the article. --

2096:

Shinzo, known as Mushrambo (マシュランボー Mashuranbō?) in Japan, is an anime based on Journey to the West. Mushra who protects Yakumo on her 'journey to the west' in search of the last human city, Shinzo, is similar to the Monkey King with how he loves to fight, wields a staff, and wears a golden

1493:, the unit has had many values, and some of the oldest were approximately 400 meters rather than half a kilometer. For example, the Han/South Korean value of 392.72 meters would make 108,000 li equal to 42413 kilometers, about 6% larger than the circumference of the Earth. Knowledge of the 626:

No, it wasn't the furnace that made him indestructible. The whole point of putting him the furnace was that he'd already proved resistant to all less extreme attempts at simiacide, and although IIRC he's said to have been hardened by the experience, he would have just died had he not been

600:

Weren't pears what were used by Susanoo, the similarly wild Japanese storm-deity, to defeat Orochi? I figure if one has both of these on the brain at the same time, it might cause confusion. Afterall, Susanoo and Sun Wukong had rather similar personalities from what I can tell. ~ SotiCoto

677:

Where in the world did you get that information from? Yes, he was born from a stone, but it never said anything about it being the strongest substance on earth. He didn't become semi-invincible until after he attained immortality and ate of the celestial pills and such. I use the world

263:) all call him Tripitaka. (I suspect that Waley started it, and the others followed his lead; the Waley translation was pretty influential.) I think, in fact, that "Tripitaka" is a kind of translation of "Sanzang", but I'm not sure; I brought it up here in hopes of finding somebody who 1822:

prohibits editors from reverting a page more than three times in a 24 hour period. You are coming close to breaking this rule. If it is broken, it can lead to a user's editing being privileges taken away for a given time. Please do not revert the page until a consensus has been made.

438:(PS. I don't actually have all those translations to hand. I've read them all at various times — except in the case of the Weir, which is a television series, and I've watched that — but the only one I actually own a copy of is the Yu. Which isn't a bad "only", all things considered.) 2630:

to the info box because you can barely even tell what it is. His back is turned around and the majority of the picture is wrinkled clothing. The only inkling that it is Sun is the small part of his arm, head, and cudgel that is visible. I doubt even a person knowledgeable about

1106:

Okay. Yes, I agree that there's a lot to do. But it's useless to point out all these weaknesses and not do anything about it. Knowledge cannot just take random images ripped off Google search and stick those on the article. There are a bunch of policy pages on this issue. See

911:

There are some dodgy bits of style and grammar, some incorrect Wiki-formatting, and the general organisation of the article isn't clear. I placed the tag not to much to get others to do the work as to mark the fact that I intend to do it (but others are free to pitch in).

2497:

Emperor following this superstition, while pulling a little trick on Monkey himself without his awareness. The trickster was tricked. The taunt as "Monkey Imp" downplays the official Imperial Title he was appointed, and plays up his role as assigned "good luck charm". --

1308:

Hi just noticed that other manga's not mentioned are Orion by Masamune Shirow. This book contains a Monkey deity known as Songoku - who fights Susano. Also in the Naruto Manga/Anime the third Hokage has a indestructable staff Enma that can transform into a monkey king.

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popping Lord Lao Tzu's Pills of Indestructibility like they were Tic Tacs. Feeling guilty, but not that guilty, he became the biggest headache for everybody in heaven." I don't think the expression "popping them like tic-tacs" is considered good form. Any thoughts? --

893:

Incorrect. Sun Wukong is stated to be able to flip "Yu Man Ba Chin Li" which translates into One "Yu" Ten-Thousand "Man" Eight "Ba" Thousand "Chin" miles "Li". The distance for the journey is in fact equivalent to three flips, calculated out to 54000 miles. -Aven

2635:

would be able to tell what it is at first glance without some sort of prompting. The original 19th century picture is a better representation because, instead of an extreme close up of his back, Sun's whole body is clearly visible and facing towards the eye.

1665:

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on

1585:

2473:

Near the end of the article it translates the Chinese characters as "monkey imp." Don't they rather say something like "keeper of the horses?" This was also a taunt used by his enemies as this was his original post in the heavenly bureaucuracy.

1226:

I'm surprised to find this article here in Knowledge. I have problem with the fact that I never knew that this article existed. The main reason's because Sun Wukong is known to people of other nationalities as well, such as Koreans and Japanese.

1033:

Inuyasha is fitted with a necklace, prayer beads perhaps. Should the human, Kagome become displeased with Inuyasha, she simply says, "sit boy." and the necklace's weight increases astronomically, slamming Inuyasha into the dirt, usually face

2605:

I disagree because 10 references do not cover the entire page. If you take away the sourced information I have added, there are only 5 references. Extra citations are needed in the Celebrations, Influence, Names, and In other media sections.

841:

I believe this 'how ze wong' is just an informal name used by people when refering to Sun. For example, my grandmother would use both 'Sun Wukong' or 'Hou'er' on him. When you say 'Hou'er', it's just like when you call a short guy 'shorty'.

1505:. This context seems to enrich the story of Sun Wukong's challenge to Buddha: given the power to leap 108,000 li in any direction, he inevitably lands in the spot where he started! (given the approximation of a spherical Earth, of course) 2036:

is based on Sun Wukong, and many other major characters in the series are also originally based on characters from the Monkey King/Journey West story (though they all diverge from the original source material as the series progresses).

822:

Actually, "how ze wong " (or "hou zi wang" in Mandarin) is never used in any Chinese version. When he became the king of Flower & Fruit Mountain, he called him self "mei hou wang". "Mei" = Handsome, "Hou" = Monkey, "Wang" = King.

1923:

The Japanese picture is more atheistically pleasing. He is a fictional character, so I don't see what the problem is with the depiction. As for my source, please see Ping Shao, "Huineng, Subhūti, and Monkey's Religion in 'Xiyou ji'",

1342:

i know he's a fictional character, but the same as probably every god in the chinese culture, there's a birthday associated with the god so people could celebrate it's birth. There's many websites that indicates his birthday, such as

367:

Of course, you're already completely addicted and I suspect most of your friends have given you up for lost. You also have all those translations on hand. You could write the JTW article... or maybe just START the article, in wiki

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Gokudo but at least I've read Journey to the West), and start recruiting Chinese myth experts to help this article. Essentially, I just added Journey to the West as a source for anything in book, and left it at that, but seriously...

732:, when not in use, it's the size of a tooth pick and can be stored in his ear, and it is certainly made out of a fancy metal. When expanded to full size, it looks and works identical to the pole used by people who does the sport of 1759:. Thirdly, Puti Zushi taught a mixture of both Buddhist AND Taoist scriptures. His temple carried a clearly Taoist flavor, and the powers he taught to Sun Wukong was almost definitely Taoist as well. As such, I have changes all 1192:

The article says "Xingzhe (行者): Meaning "traveller", a common name for a travelling monk in the old days." I thought a 行者 is a monk who works in a temple doing chores, and who does not have to have his head shaved? (see eg.

2722:

When i typed in monkey king into the wikipedia search engine, this article came up. If Hanuman is also known as the monkey king and the most likely influence on this character then why is the search directed here.

420:

article for a while now, but kept putting it off until I found time to do it "properly". This is a silly approach to take to an infinitely-re-editable encyclopaedia article, I have now realised — so Knowledge is

2372:

It is noted, in the IPC article. For it to be mentioned here, it needs to be of actual importance to general perception. Otherwise, we overshadow the mythical importance with trivial modern mentions, violating

768:

We would translate it as a pole over here in Singapore. It was used for beating out the heavens (and people's heads). Staff has connotations of being used as a support of some sort - something he's never done.

1143:

And please sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes (~~~~) as it says on the top when you edit a talk page :) This will produce your name (or in your case, your IP address) and time you posted. Thanks.

799:

Can someone provide the English meaning to the Taiwanese and Cantonese names? My friends in yau ma tei pronounce it "how ze wong" and used characters similar to the ones in this section title. Difference?

2337:

It doesn't belong here, as there is no indication it has particular importance to a general understanding of the character. ?It is located at the IPC article linked in the See also section, which suffices.

948:

Another suggestion: cut off all the different names of Xuanzang in the opening paragraph, it's not really necessary in an article devoted to Sun Wukong, and that info can be transferred to his section in

704:

The wikilink to cudgel says it is a short cone shaped club. Sun's weapon was actually a pillar he robbed from the dragon king's palace. It is supposed to be cylindrical shape so it should be called a

2800:

to animate from its forehead. Sun is a living breathing creature with no such master (Xuanzang didn't create him), he does what he pleases, and he is immortal. The similarities are only superficial. --

1698:

The article introduces him as a character in a novel, but in the Miscellaneous section under Influence it is stated that legends concerning Sun Wukong date back to before written Chinese history.

1695:

It is not clear to me from reading this article whether Sun Wukong, the Monkey King, originated in Journey To The West, or is a figure from Chinese folklore that was incorporated into that story.

1081:

I have no intention to rewrite any part of this article; I know enough to know that this is not my field of expertise. I'm leaving this comment mainly as a warning to anyone using the article.

2784: 897:

In all the books and dramas produced by China, the standard statement of his range in one flip was "shi wan ba qian li". "Shi" 10 x "Wan" 10,000 + "Ba" 8 x "Qian" 1000. 108,000 miles. --

1662:

is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

1582:

is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

1277:

I read the story and saw that Xuanzhang useully forced Sun Wukong to leave when he killed brigands and demons disguised as man(useully women). Do we need this infomation in this article?

2590:

I thought there were enough references in the article, and that the big tag was neither necessary nor aesthetically pleasing. If you disagree with this action, please list your reasons.

2517:

There is a character by the name of Sun Wukong in the new The Last Airbender prequel manga "Zuko's Story" and he's apparently the Red Spirit. Is this character inspired by this figure?

1786:.So your argument that the term Patriarch is an exclusively Taoist title is incorrect. Rather, it has been understood generally in Chinese culture that Patriarch Bodhi was most likely 929:

I just rearranged the Misc. part a little according to types of work that Sun Wukong appeared in. Maybe instead of all the details it'll be better to just have a list of the works?

224:

monk, not the historical one, and is only going to confuse people. A more sensible tack would be to link the mention of Sanzang here to an article about the fictional monk, and in

2654:

I believe my last pic choice was the better choice for first pic of the article but i put a new one that shows Wukong complete body in a dramatical depiction against the moon.--

1119:

gives a more general overview. Another issue you pointed out is the lack of academic information. When editors write about something so-and-so said in <<name of paper: -->

804:

it sounds "how ze" is an informal expression of monkey, and "wong" stands for king. But I never heard anyone use this expression. Sun Wukong is the most common name of him. ----

2125:. In this game, the player assumes the role of the titular character, which is a monkey boy based on Sun Wukong. A second player assumes the role of TonTon, who is based on 2757:, and he is known by said name in both eastern and western cultures. There is a redirect at the top of the page pointing towards the Hanuman article. This is sufficient. -- 1501:

in the 9th century BC, so it is plausible that those telling this story had access to the idea, and quite accurate measurements had been made by the Greeks by the time of

987:

The first sentence of the article says that Sun Wukong is also known as "surn vukorn"? What is the origin of this pronounciation? There's nothing to indicate this. --

486:

Thank you for your suggestion regarding ]]]! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Knowledge is a

2898:

I have rewritten the majority of the article's Background section and believe the in-universe tag can now be removed. I will do so in a few days if no major disputes.

1256:

Traditionally, Romanization of Chinese language has been hit and miss. Many of the systems employ what most would consider to be non-intuitive pronunciations (Q- as

319:. I'm going to Guatemala tomorrow for 10 days which is fortunate because it would take me at least that long to write such an article. But I can't help thinking -- 2223:, is based on Sun WuKong. The gold elements in his design seem to indicate this, and his name can also be linked to Japanese interpretations of the character (e.g. 550:

It's peaches in every English version I've ever encountered. I'd have changed it long ago, but I somehow never noticed - my brain's been going "fruit beginning with

656:

Actually, the reason of his physical invulnerability that was given in Journey to the West was that he was a STONE monkey born from the hardest stone on earth.

1966:

was misleading by itself and in the context "Taoist immortal Bodhi" also confusing for an "ordinary" reader. We can discuss (further) improvements here.

1515:

I don't think back in Ming many people know how big earth is; and, 108000 is a common colloq. exaggerating expression for big no.s in chinese, even today

1901:. Calling me a dictator on my talk page is not a good step towards coming to an agreement. Also, If you revert the page again, you will have broken the 1643:, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with 1563:, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with 721:

is supposed to have some sort of decoration or 'head' at one end, as to signify some sort of 'holy powers' or such. In chinese, it's actually called a

1905:

rule. Please do not revert the page until we have come to some consensus, otherwise your account may be blocked for a given time for breaking the rule.

510:. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out 972:

I agree. Why not go ahead and clean up all the explanatory descriptions about the monk from the opening paragraph? Have there been any opposition? --

311:

OK, now I see your point -- that would be a nice way to do it. But even more than we need an article on a fictional Sanzang, we need an article on

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Actually, you are incorrect. The title of Patriarchs are common in Mahayana and Tibetan Buddhism such as the Chan Mahayana Buddhist schools. See

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In the Chinese novel, he ate the peaches, not pears. Can someone clarify the difference between the English version and the Chinese original?

2915:

I'll remove the tag: your rewrite is quite NPOV. Besides, it's a bit rude to talk about "in-universe" when talking about religious concepts.

212:

I agree that it's interesting that he's based on a historical person, and should be mentioned – but not here, and not by linking "Sanzang" to

158:

I'm not entirely happy about linking the Tang priest to the article about his historical model; it seems like a situation ripe for confusion.

1995:

a GA status. I would like to improve it, but I don't have the time. I hope what I'm doing here is the first step towards bettering the page:

460:

To the author(s) of this piece: the article has the same breezy, energetic style of its subject, and is informative to boot. --Italo Svevo

161:

Incidentally, in all the English-language versions of the story I've encountered, the Tang priest has been called Tripitaka. Has anyone else

1727:

I don't know if Sun Wukong's teacher is, in fact, Subhuti. I know that some translations may have translated 普提祖师 (Puti Zushi) as Patriarch

2443: 1708: 1516: 1288: 888:

he could flip 108000 miles, not 18000 as stated before (108000 is also the number given for how far they have to travel to get to the west)

1365:(齊天大聖佛辰). I don't really think that he actually has a birthday, nor do I think that it was important in traditional East Asian culture. -- 1230:

I'm assuming that the correct pronunciation in Chinese is Saun Woo Kong. Right? I'll create more redirects according to that combination.

622:

I thought he became indestructible, along with his discernment eyes, after they put him in Lao Tzu's furnace not after eating the elixir.

2730: 2540: 2481: 1671: 1591: 1091: 1012: 960: 936: 2524: 2358:

article has a cited article in which the creator states in an interview that he used the Monkey King as the bases of his character. --

1281:

It's in the Journey to the West, no need to retell. And, yes, this has happened more than once. Xuanzang is quite a gullible monk...

780: 2318: 1322: 725:(sorry cannot type the chinese on this eMac at skool), and a crudgel is exactly what you say it is, short club usually made of wood. 663: 503: 195: 2788: 2851:

origin who spent 40 years in travels after the scriptures and relics. Any mention of this in the professional literature on the

1380:

The pop culture and media section of this article has been become so long that I suggest a split from the main article, such as

1037:

Like Sun Wukong, Inuyasha starts as fairly disreputable character, who through the experiences of the story becomes a true hero.

1701:

Could this be clarified? I think if he is a character from prehistoric folklore this should be mentioned in the introduction.

858: 260: 253: 246: 2564: 2010:, Sun Wukong appears in various guises, usually with some variant of the name Son Goku. He also features in the Japanese 1571: 1543: 521: 511: 1459: 1408:

where a discussion of what to do with the redirect for Son Goku, which currently redirects to Sun Wukong, is occuring.

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has powers similar to Sun Wukong, having an extensible staff which can control the sea and riding on a flying cloud.

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It appears that "Sanzang" and "Tripitaka" are two different names for the same thing, so that's all right. (I like

100:, I left some behind but if anyone wants to move anything back and forth between the two articles, go right ahead. 96: 38: 1381: 2864: 2130: 2659: 2289: 2275: 1735:

is a Buddhist term, 祖师 or patriarch is almost an exclusively Taoist title. Secondly, Puti Zushi never attended

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I believe that it is highly unlikely that Arthur Waley's translation into English influenced the Japanese

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It was from him that Houwang received the Buddhist name Sun Wukong (Wukong meaning aware of emptiness).

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given that they had their own Japanese and Chinese sources. A citation is needed if this is to remain.

1385: 198:. The names this author uses are: Sun Wukong, Sanzang, Zhu Bajie (Pig), and Sha Wujing (Friar Sand). 1051: 2860: 2780: 2726: 2595: 2576: 2520: 2477: 2439: 2314: 1704: 1449: 1284: 1087: 956: 932: 917: 846: 776: 659: 348:(I've only been involved in this wiki thing for 48 hours but already I'm developing article avarice). 137: 1627:

is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under

1547:

is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under

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there is a pole weapon called the Gokuu Rod that is a reference to Sun Wukong's signature weapon.

1458:

You could have just pasted the chinese characters for his name into a chinese-english dictionary.

1003:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=S%C5%ABn_W%C3%B9k%C5%8Dng&diff=1848621&oldid=1586293

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I made some corrections regarding some of the figures and i want to see if anyone can verify them

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but I'm not fluent in Chinese so I cannot say for sure (at the Swedish Sun Wukong page I've used

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That's true. It was actually the immortal elixir-pills and peaches that made him invulnerable. (

736:, except the coloring at both ends, the fact that it is indestructible and have magical powers. 2539:

Talk pages are only used for discussion of the article itself. Please direct your question to

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A supernatural being is compeled/coerced into aiding a human a quest to retreive some Mcguffin

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Oh and yes, my tranlation copy says Subhuti. He was a Taoist teacher, so Bodhi doesn't jive.

1467: 2916: 2899: 2833: 2374: 2198: 2192: 1772: 1731:, but there are a number of problems with this translation. First of all, even though 普提 or 1506: 1348: 1237: 1133: 47: 17: 1767:(which is a direct translation from the original language without making any assumptions). 1170: 2937: 2591: 2572: 2307: 2060: 2059:. When summoned, Enma is even capable of trasforming into a weapon similar-looking to the 1898: 1494: 1198: 1116: 988: 973: 913: 710: 2532: 235:

Of course, before we can have an article about the monk, we have to settle on what he's

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is a really important work. Sure, articles on Sanzang and Monkey King are nice, but a

86: 1615: 1535: 1197:) The word must have come not from traveling (旅行) but from training/practices (修行). -- 2378: 2339: 2134: 1902: 1819: 1802:, who would not be alive physically and factually in the timeframe set for the story. 1112: 718: 706: 582:

Definitely Peaches. Normal peaches themselves symbolise long life to the Chinese. --

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And as for Korean and Japanese pronunciations, Korean: Son Oh Gong. Japanese: Goku.

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article have a link saying something like "Sanzang is based on the historical monk

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I fully agree. I made a couple very minor changes, and removed the Tic Tacs line.

2206:. However instead being portrayed as a good guy he is one of the new officers of 743:

just doesn't quite cut it, can anyone think of a proper english name for that? --

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I like this piece. However, the information is inaccurate in many aspects. -Aven

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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I have no problems with the picture gracing the page, just not in the lead. --

2187: 2149:, flying across the stage from time to time; he drops various items when hit. 2126: 2118: 2043: 1790:, and it was not necessary for the mentioned figure to be at the court of the 733: 2220: 2046:, he was the inspiration for Jan Kugo, who wields a similar-looking weapon. 1490: 1471: 1394:

Do it, please.I say we leave two or three of the most notable ones, though.

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sandbox, I needed some place to compare characters I found on chinese text.

229: 217: 213: 2133:, who shares his name, is a playable character in a later Capcom game, the 1169:

Hi, I just saw the entry on Hanuman in the Britannica Online Encyclopedia (

249:), David Weir's paraphrase (ASIN B000066CSH), David Kherdian's paraphrase ( 2672:

Your second choice is much better. Thank you for adding it to the page. --

1026:

I'm also seeing a lot of parallel to the current anime/manga, "Inuyasha."

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Would Wu-Kong qualify as a Golum, since he's basically living stone?

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I don't understand why there should be an article on things like the

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I think we should have a picture of him in The Forbidden Kingdom.

2848: 2015: 2011: 2007: 1963: 1764: 1732: 1344: 755: 2203: 487: 640:!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 85:

I just think you should have left his origin picture on there.

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says "comprehend". So I would go with "Aware of emptiness". --

1050:

I agree, Inuyasha has more than one similarity to Sun Wukong.

25: 1747:-- in fact, he was consistantly absent from the court of the 1497:

may have been available to the people of Vedic India through

1065:

It's not from any comic, manhua, or manga that I'm aware of.

554:, good" without ever realizing it was the wrong fruit... :/ — 94:

Made a separate article of Sun Wukong in modern media called

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Fair use rationale for Image:MonkeyKingTraditionalPoster.jpg

2055:, he is depicted as a summon named Enma and is used by the 1639:

Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the

1559:

Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the

2391:

Better late than never. I had no idea anyone had replied.

216:

without further explanation. To do that is to imply that

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http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/254649/Hanuman

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graphic novel, as a story revolves around his origins.

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I don't think that any exaggeration expresion is need.

1436:

The given name Wùkōng means "awakened to emptiness".

1784:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Buddhist_patriarchs

1448:

referering to Jenner since that is what is known) --

494:

can edit almost any article by simply following the

2180:Sun Wukong is confirmed as a playable character in 1670:. If you have any questions please ask them at the 1590:. If you have any questions please ask them at the 1207:

My revert/addition under Modern Media - Dragon Ball

256:), and Anthony C. Yu's complete translation (vol 1 2843:The title Wukong 悟空 was given by the Tang Emperor 1798:is within a literature/story context, as it is to 1763:(which refers to a specific historical person) to 1136:, trivia's discouraged - you are encouraged to be 1897:Before I continue, I would like to remind you of 1611:Fair use rationale for Image:The monkey king.jpg 2694:Actually, I disagree with the pic provided by 754:A staff doesnt need a 'head' at one end. See 389:Just a suggestion... a hopeful suggestion -- 1990:In other media section (removed from article) 1466:means "to apprehend, realize, become aware". 506:…) The Knowledge community encourages you to 315:. That would be really grand. That would be 8: 1751:, which would be most uncharacteristic for 1440:according to WFJ Jenner's translation it's 109:Grammar errors and Un-encyclopedic language 2145:. The original SonSon is also featured in 1361:Regarding this, that date is actually his 1247:Actually, I think Chinese is Song WuKong. 2938:Official Musou Orochi Maou Sairin Website 2311:shot, and Dragonball, get more mention? 1485:108,000 li vs. circumference of the Earth 885:he was burned in the cauldron for 49 days 1401:Move discussion on Son Goku (DragonBall) 498:link at the top. You don't even need to 2930: 2626:I have reverted the recent addition of 2068:He is one of the central characters in 565:Ditto- I've never seen pears either. -- 2745:Hanuman is not the Monkey King in the 2142:Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes 1660:Knowledge:Fair use rationale guideline 1580:Knowledge:Fair use rationale guideline 997:I don't know. It came from an anon IP 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2753:is. Sun Wukong is the Monkey King in 2246:level but very useful for that level. 1544:Image:MonkeyKingTraditionalPoster.jpg 242:Arthur Waley's abridged translation ( 7: 2171:), players can obtain an Item named 2874:As far as I know, this is the only 2785:2601:8:B580:80B:A1C8:D0CF:C789:E6D3 1061:Source for the "untraditional" pic? 522:New contributors are always welcome 184:personally like this type of link. 24: 2354:should be mentioned as well. The 2021:, which is based on the original 1739:in the novel, unlike most of the 520:to try out your editing skills. 2219:Also, the design of the Pokemon 1658:. Using one of the templates at 1578:. Using one of the templates at 627:indestructible to begin with. -- 29: 2559:Articles on obscure references? 1345:http://www.wrsn.com.tw/a1-1.htm 717:Well, it's actually neither. A 2175:, which contains great power. 1672:Media copyright questions page 1592:Media copyright questions page 1418:Translation of the name Wukong 1241:00:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC) 1217:18:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC) 787:) 08:54, August 22, 2007 (UTC) 672:11:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 464:I totally agree. Excellent! -- 1: 2810:18:05, 14 November 2013 (UTC) 2793:05:15, 14 November 2013 (UTC) 2708:23:24, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 2682:01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC) 2664:01:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC) 2565:Mountain of Flowers and Fruit 2452:11:03, 30 November 2009 (UTC) 2214:who frees him, not Xuanzang. 1941:06:48, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1881:23:18, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 1856:23:18, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 1833:16:15, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 1686:02:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC) 1641:boilerplate fair use template 1561:boilerplate fair use template 1347:. His birthday is said to be 1265:19:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC) 1222:Pronunciation & Redirects 1202:22:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC) 1155:00:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC) 1100:23:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC) 863:08:28, 17 November 2011 (UTC) 606:11:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC) 504:reasons why you might like to 97:Sun Wukong in popular culture 2894:Removing the In-Universe Tag 2649:19:42, 9 November 2010 (UTC) 2616:21:36, 4 November 2010 (UTC) 2600:03:19, 4 November 2010 (UTC) 2541:WP:Reference desk/Humanities 1925:The Journal of Asian Studies 1668:criteria for speedy deletion 1588:criteria for speedy deletion 1382:Sun Wukong in poular culture 1252:02:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC) 1121:or <<name of book: --> 924:09:53, 31 January 2006 (UTC) 762:. Staff is absolutely fine. 132:04:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC) 119:03:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC) 2925:17:34, 26 August 2016 (UTC) 2571:? It seems really obscure. 2507:16:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC) 2490:00:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC) 2415:17:50, 7 October 2009 (UTC) 1606:22:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC) 1510:20:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC) 1489:According to the entry for 1479:10:23, 26 August 2007 (UTC) 1453:00:22, 26 August 2007 (UTC) 1413:14:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC) 977:00:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 643:00:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC) 532:03:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC) 502:! (Although there are some 2956: 2908:16:51, 22 March 2016 (UTC) 2888:00:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC) 2878:that mentions the monk. -- 2869:19:09, 12 March 2016 (UTC) 2767:19:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC) 2739:17:56, 29 April 2011 (UTC) 2294:21:36, 1 August 2008 (UTC) 2280:21:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC) 1717:01:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC) 1652:the image description page 1572:the image description page 1370:05:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC) 1356:23:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC) 1331:14:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC) 1045:00:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC) 1016:00:00, 28 March 2006 (UTC) 992:16:26, 27 March 2006 (UTC) 713:19:05, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC) 688:16:36, 12 April 2010 (UTC) 416:I've been meaning to do a 327:encyclopedia would have a 2834:08:42, 26 June 2015 (UTC) 2815: 2581:00:45, 15 June 2010 (UTC) 2387:23:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC) 2368:20:06, 24 July 2009 (UTC) 2348:17:19, 24 July 2009 (UTC) 2327:09:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC) 2260:15:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC) 2087:, the I-Jin duplicate of 1654:and edit it to include a 1624:Image:The monkey king.jpg 1574:and edit it to include a 1183:10:21, 22 July 2008 (UTC) 1055:06:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC) 747:00:41, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC) 220:is the article about the 80:07:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC) 2553:13:41, 3 June 2010 (UTC) 2533:08:16, 3 June 2010 (UTC) 2160:Blizzard Entertainment's 1976:22:49, 4 June 2012 (UTC) 1777:19:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC) 1755:, who was a disciple of 1691:Confusion in the article 1633:explanation or rationale 1553:explanation or rationale 1525:16:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC) 1389:15:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 1297:16:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC) 1022:Another modern reference 709:instead of a cudgel. -- 631:08:23, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC) 468:14:32, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC) 176:14:43 22 May 2003 (UTC) 2876:English language source 2158:(a custom scenario for 2131:granddaughter of SonSon 1462:says the character for 570:15:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC) 558:11:09, 6 Sep 2003 (UTC) 433:09:10 23 May 2003 (UTC) 393:05:45 23 May 2003 (UTC) 293:04:49 23 May 2003 (UTC) 274:02:57 23 May 2003 (UTC) 205:18:07 22 May 2003 (UTC) 2032:from Akira Toriyama's 1619: 1539: 1438: 1428: 1304:Other related material 1069:Quality of the article 165:also encountered this? 2512: 2356:Son Goku (Dragonball) 2234:Final Fantasy Tactics 2210:'s army, since it is 2075:American Born Chinese 1635:as to why its use in 1618: 1555:as to why its use in 1538: 1470:says the same thing. 1442:awakened to emptiness 1434: 1424: 1321:comment was added by 1161:Sun Wukong in History 967:) 09:19, 29 June 2006 943:) 09:12, 29 June 2006 779:comment was added by 542:Pears of Immortality? 42:of past discussions. 2333:Dragonball reference 2051:In the anime series 2042:In the anime series 2000:Animation and comics 1422:The article states: 1363:Day of Enlightenment 2755:Journey to the West 2628:File:Sun Wukong.jpg 2173:The Monkey King Bar 2123:Journey to the West 2023:Journey to the West 1794:. The reference to 951:Journey to the West 424:Journey to the West 418:Journey to the West 321:Journey to the West 313:Journey to the West 189:Journey to the West 2853:Travel to the West 2822:Monkey (TV series) 2569:Water Curtain Cave 2186:, the sequel to a 2163:real-time strategy 1656:fair use rationale 1620: 1576:fair use rationale 1540: 513:how to edit a page 187:My translation is 2816:Waley's influence 2783:comment added by 2729:comment added by 2523:comment added by 2480:comment added by 2442:comment added by 2317:comment added by 2247: 2241: 2238:Final Fantasy XII 2228: 2215: 2212:Taira no Kiyomori 2183:Warriors Orochi 2 2176: 2150: 2121:loosely based on 2105: 2098: 2092: 2079: 2064: 2047: 2038: 2002: 1719: 1707:comment added by 1384:. Votes on this? 1334: 1299: 1287:comment added by 1090:comment added by 968: 959:comment added by 944: 935:comment added by 866: 849:comment added by 788: 739:But calling it a 674: 662:comment added by 168:got any idea why? 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2947: 2940: 2935: 2855:? My source was 2795: 2741: 2535: 2492: 2454: 2329: 2244: 2231: 2218: 2199:Samurai Warriors 2193:Dynasty Warriors 2179: 2153: 2108: 2101: 2095: 2082: 2067: 2050: 2041: 2005: 1998: 1723:Subhuti vs Bodhi 1702: 1631:but there is no 1551:but there is no 1410:Kyaa the Catlord 1349:Chinese calendar 1316: 1282: 1273:Forced to leave. 1148: 1102: 954: 930: 920: 865: 843: 774: 700:Staff or cudgel? 657: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 18:Talk:Monkey King 2955: 2954: 2950: 2949: 2948: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2943: 2936: 2932: 2896: 2861:Shanghainese.ua 2841: 2818: 2778: 2775: 2724: 2720: 2624: 2588: 2561: 2518: 2515: 2475: 2471: 2437: 2335: 2312: 2308:Havoc in Heaven 2304: 2302:Havoc in Heaven 2267: 2085:Read or Die OVA 2061:Ruyi Jingu Bang 1992: 1725: 1693: 1613: 1533: 1495:spherical Earth 1487: 1460:This dictionary 1420: 1403: 1378: 1340: 1317:—The preceding 1306: 1275: 1224: 1209: 1190: 1163: 1146: 1085: 1071: 1063: 1024: 985: 918: 909: 879: 844: 794: 775:—The preceding 702: 620: 618:Invulnerability 544: 458: 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540: 539: 538: 537: 536: 535: 534: 496:Edit this page 479: 478: 477: 476: 470: 469: 457: 456:My compliments 454: 452: 450: 449: 448: 447: 446: 445: 444: 443: 442: 441: 440: 439: 436: 435: 434: 428: 427:-less no more. 403: 402: 401: 400: 399: 398: 397: 396: 395: 394: 378: 377: 376: 375: 374: 373: 372: 371: 370: 369: 356: 355: 354: 353: 352: 351: 350: 349: 339: 338: 337: 336: 335: 334: 333: 332: 301: 299: 298: 297: 296: 295: 294: 278: 277: 276: 275: 269: 268: 241: 240: 234: 233: 207: 206: 200: 199: 186: 185: 179: 170: 169: 166: 155: 152: 151: 150: 149: 148: 147: 146: 110: 107: 106: 105: 91: 90: 71: 68: 65: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2952: 2939: 2934: 2931: 2926: 2922: 2918: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2905: 2901: 2893: 2889: 2885: 2881: 2880:Ghostexorcist 2877: 2873: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2866: 2862: 2858: 2854: 2850: 2847:to a monk of 2846: 2838: 2836: 2835: 2831: 2827: 2823: 2811: 2807: 2803: 2802:Ghostexorcist 2798: 2797: 2796: 2794: 2790: 2786: 2782: 2772: 2768: 2764: 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