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controversy involved in the delay of the award was because
Swenson criticised Army leadership after the battle. From Stars and Stripes: "Swensonâs Medal of Honor nomination was delayed for at least two years after officials lost the information, which has also lead to controversy. Skeptics have accused Army officials of burying his award because of harsh criticism he leveled in the days following the attack, saying commanders did not respond quickly enough to calls for support." Either a source needs to be found linking the delay in Swenson's MoH award to Golsteyn's Amazon review, or that information needs to be removed.
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1232:"An agent with U.S. Criminal Investigation Command who watched a recording of Golsteynâs polygraph test wrote in one early report that Golsteyn told his interviewers that he and one other U.S. soldier had taken the deceased Afghan âback to his residence and assassinated him.â But Army officials conceded at a 2015 administrative hearing known as a Board of Inquiry that Golsteyn did not say that, Golsteyn said. The Army declined to comment."
1464:, and rely heavily on direct quotations. While some of the material might be included, it needs to be presented using prose, and supported only by reliable secondary sources. The existing sources were overly primary, i.e. just quotes from people involved, not objective news coverage. I would be willing to work to create a neutral version that presents things using reliable sources, but the reverted version is not satisfactory.
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The charge is murder, the wording "war crimes" was based off of (I believe) the
Washington times article. It does seem that war crimes was more commentary by the source, they were crimes allegedly committed during war, but I guess not war crimes in the traditional sense. Since most sources do not use
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Currently, that section shows that the delays in
Swenson's award ("administrative errors") didn't begin until after Golsteyn posted the Amazon review. This is directly contradicted by the Washington Times source, and the Stars and Stripes source that it relies upon. Stars and Stripes says that the
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It isn't always obvious which of a pair of related articles should explain some development common to both of them. Resolving disagreements over such placement should be done with a maximum of civility, because, although it might seem obvious, these disagreements are usually ones where there is "no
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Golsteyn merely suspected this man was an enemy, because he was fingered by an informant. He was not captured during a firefight. He wasn't captured with a gun in his hand. Ever since the USA's first days in
Afghanistan US forces have experienced being duped by wily Afghans, who routinely lied,
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When I wrote the material you see now I didn't realize that Bing West was embedded in the unit
Golsteyn commanded. I didn't realize that he devoted almost two whole chapters to the time he spent with Golsteyn's unit. He was also embedded in Swenson's unit. Both officer's medals were for actions
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The current wording (which I believe I wrote but am totally open to changing, we want this to be accurate) is based off of the NYTimes article titled "Twist in green berets story...", which used the wording "roadside bomb." Which source mentioned the sliding door? Is West's work a primary source?
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Only one article should go into detail on a topic. When one article provides a paragraph of context for a link to a related article care should be used to make sure it doesn't start to duplicate details of the main exposition in the other article. Duplicating the details is problematic for two
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Some links require little context to make plain to readers how they relate to the article they are reading. Others may require a sentence, or even a brief paragraph, providing context. Sadly, vandals and POV pushers sometimes trim that context so severely it effectively obfuscates the relation
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the "war crimes" wording, and since that could actually be a BLP violation, I support removing the wording and simply stating the charge of "premeditated murder". And of course we must remember that they are just charges and that he hasn't been tried or convicted yet.
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I don't know whether West and
Golsteyn knew one another, were friends, prior to the embed. However, West quotes Golsteyn in other publications. He cited him as a perfect example of the kind mixed Afghan-Special-Forces unit necessary to win the war.
1057:. I am thus opening this RM to propose renaming and refocusing the page on the incident and continuing aftermath/developments. I'm not sure what the new name should be, and am looking for suggestions/consensus. Perhaps something along the lines of
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reasons. The two accounts could contradict one another. Even if they didn't contradict one another, when first drafted, they could diverge if the main article's intellectual content is changed when new developments require an update.
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applied even to little old ladies who innocently donated to what they thought were legitimate charities, if US intelligence suspected someone at that charity had diverted the charity's resources to a project with an association with
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The article currently says
Golsteyn is charged with war crimes. Some legal commentators have stated or implied he committed a war crime, and of course he has high profile defenders, who dispute he committed any crimes at all.
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Can we cover the opinions of those legal commentators who describe it as a war crime? (1) it would have to be attributed; (2) balanced against the opinions of his defenders. For charges, if the formal charge is
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Those related topics will all link to each other. When article A is related to article B, article A should contain a wikilink to B, and
Article B should contain a wikilink to A.
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be described as a "roadside bomb". These bazaars can consist of alcoves, in this case sealable with a garage door style door, lining a relatively narrow street.
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I just added a couple of paragraph based on
Golsteyn's February 9th Wapo interview. I did my best to keep it neutral, but I expect it to be controversial.
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could be considered an enemy combatant, merely for making what she thought was an legitimate charity. She was informed the little old lady
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earlier about deleting this page. The discussion did not reach consensus, but many folks leaned towards turning this into an event page per
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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As of 19:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC) Golsteyn's Amazon comment, that triggered an investigation into his friends, is still online,
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He graduated from West Point in 2002, not 2006. This detail comes from a 2015 Washington Post article, which has been corrected.
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It doesn't seem like this paragraph about the Amazon review was particularly noteworthy or important to this subject's life.
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and used claims that their rivals in long-standing feuds were members of the
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Although I proposed this I do not currently have a strong opinion any which way and thus am why I'm looking for discussion.
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He was just issued a full pardon by President trump. If he was fully pardoned his silver star should be re awarded.
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applied to youths who had attended summer camps where there was a shooting range where they took target practice
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478:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
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1307:. It is not a term defined in International law. The Obama administration officially abandoned the term.
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The account offered an account of the source of the version that Golsteyn and a colleague took the suspect
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The Bush administration's use of the term was highly problematic, as it differed so widely from the term
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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applied to foreigners who had been drafted at 18 by countries with universal military service
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West was embedded with Golsteyn's unit, so, yes, as an eyewitness, it is a primary source.
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Only simple and noncontroversial edits should be explained solely with an edit summary.
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If you are going to rewrite this material I encourage you to explain your edits here.
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described in West's book, a book written by a former senior Pentagon official.
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is first choice. Murder in the title is a non-starter as is Golsteyn's name.
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the page to any particular title at this time, per the discussion below.
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I didn't include coverage of this. I'd welcome opinions on inclusion.
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The links to related articles should be well placed within the articles.
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Fwiw, a bomb attached to a garage door style door, in a street bazaar,
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Howdy hello! I have reverted some additions that I believed were not
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applied to Afghans who had been civil servants, not actual combatants
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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and lawful combatants as defined in International law
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does not apply to veterans, who have been discharged
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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This article has been checked against the following
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47:This is the
36:no consensus
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1468:Captain Eek
1182:move review
1131:K.e.coffman
1113:Captain Eek
1073:Captain Eek
1051:WP:BLPCRIME
1016:move review
986:Captain Eek
909:Captain Eek
562:Structure:
269:Start-class
176:free images
59:not a forum
1484:Categories
1337:Bush term
1082:Relisting.
1047:discussion
681:photograph
418:photograph
1374:terrorism
1178:talk page
966:Cheers!
887:Bing West
812:Bing West
365:Biography
298:Biography
237:libellous
116:if needed
99:Be polite
49:talk page
1434:unsigned
1413:Geo Swan
1388:, judge
1264:unsigned
1243:Geo Swan
1203:Geo Swan
1180:or in a
1055:WP:BLP1E
1029:Dekimasu
968:Geo Swan
927:Geo Swan
891:Geo Swan
836:Geo Swan
729:Geo Swan
685:included
523:criteria
303:Military
84:get help
57:This is
55:article.
28:deletion
1458:neutral
1123:Neutral
1107:Neutral
859:Sperril
182:WPÂ refs
170:scholar
1343:notes
1094:(talk)
709:Upload
700:Flickr
275:scale.
154:Google
1398:COULD
923:could
422:added
414:image
197:JSTOR
158:books
112:Seek
1442:talk
1417:talk
1272:talk
1247:talk
1207:talk
1156:talk
1135:talk
1089:SITH
972:talk
955:.
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725:here
354:and
190:FENS
164:news
101:and
34:was
1384:'s
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683:be
420:be
416:or
226:BLP
204:TWL
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38:.
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