937:
795:
774:
680:
927:
906:
805:
1096:(or North America). By separating the well-defined, source-supported "Big Four" designation from other top-flight leagues, we could fix the structural problem forced on the matter by the relatively poorly defined "major league" designation—usage of which is only really supported in the context of differentiating Major and Minor League Baseball from each other—without slighting how any of the leagues involved are described or compared.
227:
419:
670:
643:
746:
324:
306:
275:
334:
1064:
very specific criteria, and then includes CFL, which struggles to meet most of them. The article's definitions of "major" in a sports context, or "major league" outside of the context of baseball, are largely unsupported by the cited sources in favor of the term "Big Four", which includes only the NHL, NFL, NBA, and MLB.
1063:
At a higher level, much of how the article frames the leagues in question is arbitrary. Its scope excludes leagues in Mexico for no given reason, but mentions the leagues' work in Mexico in a contextual vacuum. It adequately defines the "Big Four" as the sources do, but defines "major league" with
1150:
of the component leagues' articles, or of well-cited (but also now outdated) metrics in order to reflect commonalities between the leagues. In the process, it adds unprovable or editorialized statements that aren't made in either the cited sources or on the leagues' main or related articles. That
1142:
An article for prominent leagues not in the Big Four also helps address having separate-but-differently maintained articles on leagues that are each defined by gender, which makes creating meaningful and relevant factual comparisons between women's, men's, and co-ed leagues as organizations and
1138:
issues that arise from rightfully omitting women's leagues from the subject of the Big Four leagues but also wedging CFL into the major definition. If CFL is "major" only in a
Canadian context, then it's in the wrong article; if CFL is "major" in a combined US/Canada context, then arguably the
1276:
Revenue seems like a mildly arbitrary and vague line to what determines "major" versus "non-major," especially when I could be fairly sure if I search up reliable sources, I could find a sufficient outside sources referring to MLS as one of the "majors." That being said, do we have any actual
1037:
This article is severely lacking in cited sources, its attendance figures are outdated enough that updating them would challenge some of the points the article tries to make (especially about the CFL), and the article's thesis—that there's a significant, factual, well-known and well-defined
1230:
MLS is clearly growing faster than the other two sports. It's average attendance is higher and with the new Apple TV deal it's TV money is higher than NHL. It's still drawn as a minor "Other Major League" sport. At minimum, it should be ahead of the NHL which is clearly niche.
1261:
MLS has surpassed them in attendance because they play in outdoor stadiums with larger capacities; so this doesn't feel like a valid argument for determining popularity. Not to mention NHL/NBA play 82 games per season. MLS sits way behind the Big 4 in revenue as well.
153:
44:
1059:
flags dating back to 2014. The only league that's reliably sourced in the article is CFL, and most of that appears to be trying to justify its inclusion as a "major league" despite all but one of those sources being unconcerned with the definition.
1067:
It might be better for this article to be retitled and refocused. Since the cited sources support and align on the "Big Four" definition of NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL, this article could focus entirely on those (as it mostly already does, in terms of
1205:
In general usage, it's just called "North
America", and the article used to be at that title. However, some people objected to that as Mexico isn't included, hence the move to "United States and Canada". I'm not sure that "Northern America" is
198:
194:
190:
1076:-supported citations). The sole opinion column cited in this article as supporting the inclusion of MLS and CFL as "major leagues" is an opinion-led source, which itself relies on Google search volume data to make its case, which due to
446:
147:
442:
1151:
cleanup is a separate concern; most of that content could be removed, and much of the cited content that's not included on the league articles could be moved to them and summarized much more succinctly here. -
1089:
24:
1080:
is difficult to support as the foundation of a definition of "major league" and thus the structure and inclusion in this article. (And the case isn't helped by how that same opinion piece supports listing
993:
1246:
MLS has few games and cheaper tickets than the NHL and NBA, and the NHL's deal with ESPN and Turner are worth more. Any argument that the MLS is above the NHL is one's personal opinion and not factual.
613:
454:
1263:
1210:
enough to use in the title, and remember it also includes
Greenland and Bermuda, which aren't in the scope of this article. Let's just keep it where it's at if we can't use "North America".
547:
1353:
835:
1303:
852:
168:
135:
450:
500:
888:
1088:
MLS, CFL, and other notable but smaller leagues than the Big Four could then be described separately, whether in their own article or ideally merged with the existing
1333:
1323:
726:
129:
1368:
1348:
983:
878:
842:
79:
125:
1373:
1358:
959:
847:
175:
736:
1328:
1318:
85:
1363:
1343:
1128:
594:
the page of sport in each country from corresponding article in other language
Knowledge (XXG) to English Knowledge (XXG) which was marked in red.
1099:
It also opens the possibility of including and comparing other leagues that are notably prominent within their sports in a similar fashion, like
755:
653:
141:
1093:
950:
911:
818:
779:
438:
1338:
1313:
1286:
1277:
definition as to what defines a "major" league versus a "minor" league, or is this just being decided by "some of them make more money?" -
1271:
1256:
1240:
1219:
1199:
1175:
1160:
1049:
The article- and section-level flags I've added, and many of the inline statements I've flagged, are new but there are inline, unaddressed
1027:
30:
1190:
is best as it only encompasses the United States and Canada. “Northern
American major professional sports leagues” is what I had in mind.
702:
520:
356:
1248:
830:
575:
515:* Fix project template and/or "to do list" Current version causes tables of content to be hidden unless/until reader chooses "show."
99:
1267:
104:
20:
1308:
826:
on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
74:
693:
648:
540:
461:
431:
347:
311:
286:
211:
65:
1139:
now-larger NWSL and WNBA, with higher team valuations, comparable player pay, and comparable revenue as of 2022, are too.
355:-related topics on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1207:
256:
1166:
Agreed. Especially about removing CFL from the article. It isn't anymore relevant in the United States as the XFL is.
510:
506:
252:
185:
109:
1077:
207:
1104:
1053:
292:
1108:
1252:
1124:
590:
260:
55:
1282:
958:
on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
701:
on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
562:
598:
70:
1236:
1195:
942:
810:
484:
476:
274:
1171:
526:
161:
1100:
1023:
212:
1232:
1147:
1039:
794:
773:
569:
51:
1135:
555:
1278:
1215:
1187:
1156:
235:
209:
926:
905:
226:
1191:
1116:
1073:
1069:
1043:
468:
1167:
1120:
532:
418:
1297:
1038:
definition of "major league" based on the specific traits it describes—appears to be
1019:
955:
823:
685:
603:
497:(History section needs sources and accurate information - very vague at the moment.)
339:
494:
467:
newly added and existing articles, maybe nominate some good B-class articles for
1211:
1152:
932:
800:
675:
669:
642:
329:
822:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
251:) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
745:
323:
305:
1112:
1082:
1042:
of existing but uncited sources at best, and potentially whole-cloth
698:
1018:
Is it MLS or the CFL? The article says both at different points. --
1186:
So after some more research I have found that suggesting the term
513:
section is incorrect and unsourced. Reliable data is required.
352:
25:
Major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada
1090:
prominent women's sports leagues in the United States and Canada
529:(crucial article explaining the salaried undertaking of sports)
471:; independently assess some as A-class, regardless of GA status.
268:
221:
213:
15:
548:
Category:Knowledge (XXG) requested images of sports and games
744:
1094:
prominent sports leagues in the United States and Canada
407:
402:
397:
392:
160:
954:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
697:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
351:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1226:
MLS has surpassed NHL and NBA in average attendance
174:
1304:Knowledge (XXG) articles that use American English
501:Category:American college sports infobox templates
1354:C-Class United States articles of Low-importance
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
447:Requested articles (Association football women)
1146:Much of the rest of the article appears to be
1085:over either MLS or CFL as a "major" league.)
8:
900:
768:
637:
455:Requested articles (Estonian sportspeople)
426:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
380:
300:
239:, which has its own spelling conventions (
968:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject North America
863:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject United States
443:Requested articles (Association football)
1014:League with the third highest attendance
1143:businesses arbitrarily more difficult.
1129:Liga Nacional de Baloncesto Profesional
902:
770:
639:
302:
272:
1334:Mid-importance Canadian sport articles
1324:Mid-importance Canada-related articles
487:(this should-be-major article is in a
1369:Mid-importance North America articles
1349:Low-importance United States articles
259:, this should not be changed without
7:
1264:2601:647:5900:5D0:D8B:6D55:C737:2D48
948:This article is within the scope of
816:This article is within the scope of
691:This article is within the scope of
345:This article is within the scope of
606:) sports to be part of this project
503:to use same font size and spacing.
291:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
1374:WikiProject North America articles
1359:WikiProject United States articles
971:Template:WikiProject North America
866:Template:WikiProject United States
711:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Canada
576:List of world sports championships
365:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Sports
14:
451:Requested articles (Motor sports)
50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
1033:Maintenance request/cry for help
935:
925:
904:
803:
793:
772:
678:
668:
641:
417:
332:
322:
304:
273:
225:
45:Click here to start a new topic.
1329:C-Class Canadian sport articles
1319:C-Class Canada-related articles
988:This article has been rated as
883:This article has been rated as
731:This article has been rated as
1364:C-Class North America articles
1344:C-Class United States articles
1257:01:25, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
1:
1287:16:44, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
1272:06:15, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
1241:23:15, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
962:and see a list of open tasks.
753:This article is supported by
705:and see a list of open tasks.
359:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
1339:All WikiProject Canada pages
1134:This would also help reduce
1046:or opinions stated as fact.
1314:WikiProject Sports articles
1111:, and if Mexico's included
714:Template:WikiProject Canada
507:Sport in the United Kingdom
439:Requested articles (Sports)
368:Template:WikiProject Sports
1390:
1028:12:14, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
889:project's importance scale
756:WikiProject Canadian sport
737:project's importance scale
1220:21:15, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
1200:21:04, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
1161:00:49, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
987:
951:WikiProject North America
920:
882:
819:WikiProject United States
788:
752:
730:
663:
379:
317:
299:
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
1176:18:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
1105:National Lacrosse League
824:United States of America
1309:C-Class sports articles
1109:Canadian Premier League
717:Canada-related articles
1125:Mexican Pacific League
1092:into a gender-neutral
974:North America articles
869:United States articles
749:
535:(currently a sub-stub)
281:This article is rated
75:avoid personal attacks
748:
563:Category:Sports stubs
285:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
100:Neutral point of view
943:North America portal
811:United States portal
614:requests for comment
602:: Gather all (major/
561:work on articles in
546:for pages listed in
485:Sport governing body
257:relevant style guide
253:varieties of English
105:No original research
837:Articles Requested!
550:and sub-categories.
527:Professional sports
255:. According to the
1182:Simpler title/name
1101:Major League Rugby
750:
694:WikiProject Canada
348:WikiProject Sports
287:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
47:
1008:
1007:
1004:
1003:
1000:
999:
899:
898:
895:
894:
767:
766:
763:
762:
636:
635:
632:
631:
628:
627:
624:
623:
267:
266:
220:
219:
66:Assume good faith
43:
1381:
1188:Northern America
1058:
1052:
994:importance scale
976:
975:
972:
969:
966:
945:
940:
939:
938:
929:
922:
921:
916:
908:
901:
871:
870:
867:
864:
861:
813:
808:
807:
806:
797:
790:
789:
784:
776:
769:
719:
718:
715:
712:
709:
688:
683:
682:
681:
672:
665:
664:
659:
656:
645:
638:
432:Article requests
421:
414:
413:
381:
373:
372:
369:
366:
363:
342:
337:
336:
335:
326:
319:
318:
308:
301:
284:
278:
277:
269:
236:American English
232:This article is
229:
222:
214:
179:
178:
164:
95:Article policies
16:
1389:
1388:
1384:
1383:
1382:
1380:
1379:
1378:
1294:
1293:
1228:
1184:
1117:Liga MX Femenil
1078:WP:GOOGLELIMITS
1056:
1054:citation needed
1050:
1035:
1016:
973:
970:
967:
964:
963:
941:
936:
934:
914:
868:
865:
862:
859:
858:
857:
843:Become a Member
809:
804:
802:
782:
716:
713:
710:
707:
706:
684:
679:
677:
657:
651:
620:
412:
371:sports articles
370:
367:
364:
361:
360:
338:
333:
331:
282:
261:broad consensus
216:
215:
210:
121:
116:
115:
114:
91:
61:
12:
11:
5:
1387:
1385:
1377:
1376:
1371:
1366:
1361:
1356:
1351:
1346:
1341:
1336:
1331:
1326:
1321:
1316:
1311:
1306:
1296:
1295:
1292:
1291:
1290:
1289:
1259:
1227:
1224:
1223:
1222:
1183:
1180:
1179:
1178:
1121:Mexican League
1034:
1031:
1015:
1012:
1010:
1006:
1005:
1002:
1001:
998:
997:
990:Mid-importance
986:
980:
979:
977:
960:the discussion
947:
946:
930:
918:
917:
915:Mid‑importance
909:
897:
896:
893:
892:
885:Low-importance
881:
875:
874:
872:
856:
855:
850:
845:
840:
833:
831:Template Usage
827:
815:
814:
798:
786:
785:
783:Low‑importance
777:
765:
764:
761:
760:
751:
741:
740:
733:Mid-importance
729:
723:
722:
720:
703:the discussion
690:
689:
673:
661:
660:
658:Mid‑importance
646:
634:
633:
630:
629:
626:
625:
622:
621:
619:
618:
617:
616:
607:
595:
586:
578:
565:
551:
536:
533:Sport industry
530:
516:
514:
504:
499:* Standardize
498:
492:
482:
472:
457:
453:
449:
445:
441:
437:
425:
423:
422:
411:
410:
405:
400:
395:
389:
386:
385:
377:
376:
374:
357:the discussion
344:
343:
327:
315:
314:
309:
297:
296:
290:
279:
265:
264:
230:
218:
217:
208:
206:
205:
202:
201:
181:
180:
118:
117:
113:
112:
107:
102:
93:
92:
90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1386:
1375:
1372:
1370:
1367:
1365:
1362:
1360:
1357:
1355:
1352:
1350:
1347:
1345:
1342:
1340:
1337:
1335:
1332:
1330:
1327:
1325:
1322:
1320:
1317:
1315:
1312:
1310:
1307:
1305:
1302:
1301:
1299:
1288:
1284:
1280:
1275:
1274:
1273:
1269:
1265:
1260:
1258:
1254:
1250:
1245:
1244:
1243:
1242:
1238:
1234:
1225:
1221:
1217:
1213:
1209:
1204:
1203:
1202:
1201:
1197:
1193:
1189:
1181:
1177:
1173:
1169:
1165:
1164:
1163:
1162:
1158:
1154:
1149:
1144:
1140:
1137:
1136:systemic bias
1132:
1130:
1126:
1122:
1118:
1114:
1110:
1106:
1102:
1097:
1095:
1091:
1086:
1084:
1079:
1075:
1071:
1065:
1061:
1055:
1047:
1045:
1041:
1032:
1030:
1029:
1025:
1021:
1013:
1011:
995:
991:
985:
982:
981:
978:
965:North America
961:
957:
956:North America
953:
952:
944:
933:
931:
928:
924:
923:
919:
913:
912:North America
910:
907:
903:
890:
886:
880:
877:
876:
873:
860:United States
854:
851:
849:
846:
844:
841:
839:
838:
834:
832:
829:
828:
825:
821:
820:
812:
801:
799:
796:
792:
791:
787:
781:
780:United States
778:
775:
771:
758:
757:
747:
743:
742:
738:
734:
728:
725:
724:
721:
704:
700:
696:
695:
687:
686:Canada portal
676:
674:
671:
667:
666:
662:
655:
650:
647:
644:
640:
615:
611:
608:
605:
601:
600:
596:
593:
592:
588:
587:
585:
583:
579:
577:
574:
572:
571:
566:
564:
560:
558:
557:
552:
549:
545:
543:
542:
537:
534:
528:
525:
523:
522:
517:
512:
508:
502:
496:
490:
486:
481:
479:
478:
473:
470:
466:
464:
463:
458:
456:
452:
448:
444:
440:
436:
434:
433:
428:
427:
424:
420:
416:
415:
409:
406:
404:
401:
399:
396:
394:
391:
390:
388:
387:
383:
382:
378:
375:
358:
354:
350:
349:
341:
340:Sports portal
330:
328:
325:
321:
320:
316:
313:
310:
307:
303:
298:
294:
288:
280:
276:
271:
270:
262:
258:
254:
250:
246:
242:
238:
237:
231:
228:
224:
223:
204:
203:
200:
196:
192:
189:
187:
183:
182:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
46:
41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
1249:67.208.58.12
1229:
1208:recognizable
1185:
1145:
1141:
1133:
1098:
1087:
1066:
1062:
1048:
1036:
1017:
1009:
989:
949:
884:
848:Project Talk
836:
817:
754:
732:
692:
609:
597:
589:
581:
580:
568:
567:
554:
553:
539:
538:
519:
518:
495:Field hockey
488:
475:
474:
460:
459:
430:
429:
346:
293:WikiProjects
248:
244:
240:
233:
184:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
1279:Navarre0107
384:To-do list:
234:written in
148:free images
31:not a forum
1298:Categories
1192:Banan14kab
599:Categorize
511:Popularity
1168:Listen1st
612:: answer
591:Translate
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1148:WP:SYNTH
1040:WP:SYNTH
1020:Khajidha
489:shameful
249:traveled
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1113:Liga MX
1083:Liga MX
992:on the
887:on the
735:on the
604:olympic
491:state)
477:Cleanup
398:history
283:C-class
245:defense
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1212:BilCat
1153:Socccc
853:Alerts
708:Canada
699:Canada
649:Canada
570:Update
521:Expand
509:- the
462:Assess
362:Sports
312:Sports
289:scale.
126:Google
1233:Mwrab
1127:, or
1074:WP:IS
1070:WP:RS
1044:WP:OR
654:Sport
582:Other
556:Stubs
541:Photo
408:purge
403:watch
353:sport
241:color
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1283:talk
1268:talk
1253:talk
1237:talk
1216:talk
1196:talk
1172:talk
1157:talk
1024:talk
610:RfCs
393:edit
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
984:Mid
879:Low
727:Mid
176:TWL
1300::
1285:)
1270:)
1255:)
1239:)
1218:)
1198:)
1174:)
1159:)
1131:.
1123:,
1119:,
1115:,
1107:,
1103:,
1057:}}
1051:{{
1026:)
652::
531:*
505:*
493:*
483:*
469:GA
247:,
243:,
197:,
193:,
156:)
54:;
1281:(
1266:(
1251:(
1235:(
1214:(
1194:(
1170:(
1155:(
1072:/
1022:(
996:.
891:.
759:.
739:.
584::
573::
559::
544::
524::
480::
465::
435::
295::
263:.
199:3
195:2
191:1
188::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.