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News may prove unpopular with some members of our community, I must assure those users that this was a decison that the WHOLE moderator team (Including myself and other mod's associated with pro-regime sentiments) agreed upon after much discussion. The reasons for which the moderator team have decided to ban the source include the fact that it is not an actual media network, it is effectively a blog acting like one. whilst popular with pro-regime users, The majority of contributors at al-Masdar News are not journalists and this has often been reflected in the heavy manner in which bias has influenced reporting at Al-Masdar News including gross misrepresentations, and blatantly incorrect information often being spun as "Breaking News". There are a wide variety of other unsubstantiated blogs or tabloid news websites in our black list that claim to be the "real news" representing all manners of political bias's and ideologies so please do not veiw the addition of al-masdar news as a targeted attack at a specific ideology or bias. I would also like to note that Leith has previously said he has no problem with Al-Masdar being blacklisted at this subreddit.
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claim may be seen as propaganda by some, including me (although this in itself can be seen as a non-neutral POV per WP policy), you also got two reports by the
Coalition and a pro-Assad source stating most are Arabs. The Coalition is considered reliable while a pro-Assad media outlet has no reason to claim propaganda on behalf of Erdogan (who is their enemy).
1246:. It is not AKP propaganda when several news outlets report that a majority or at least many fighters are Arab. Furthermore, when you removed Mohammed Abu Adil and listed Abu Layla as KIA, you did not just disregard the sources, but Kurdish sources - ARA News is a pro-Kursdish website, so that is probably the last place where one finds AKP propaganda.
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three groups if anything gets the suggestion that all three were about equal in size. Therefore while it may be a desire of Arab supremacists, or those who promote an agenda of ethnic supremacism for the region in general, to refer to Manbij as an "Arab town", this article should stick with the facts and refer to Manbij as a poly-ethnic place. --
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1. The infobx clearly states that it is a YPG claim, and that relatively reliable sources (such as ARA News) reported it. The claim does not have to be true, but does warrant mentioning. 2. The infobox does not state support by Turkey for ISIL, but simply that Turkey attacked
Kurdish positions near
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In my humble opinion, "Al-Masdar News" should not be considered a source. And this ridiculous claim today that many civilians in Manbij would volunteer to make suicide attacks for ISIL (and which actually made it into this article, I will not fight about that now, it is just too absurd) in my humble
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After much deliberation and discussion amongst the moderator team we have unanimously decided to re-add Al-Masdar News to this list as well as open up the floor in the comments section of this thread, for more suggestions from our community of websites or "news" blogs. While the banning of Al-Masdar
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As we now have as the most autoritative source on that ethnic composition of the SDF force, "a Manbij
Military Council commander who said 60 percent of the attacking force were Arabs and 40 percent Kurds, Turkmen and other ethnic groups", and apparently all who work on this article cheer that source
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While there are diverse issues with this topic (at one point about half the article was not about the Manbij offensive but just copy and paste of
Erdogan propaganda about the Manbij offensive), the apparently most controversial issue right now is the Erdogan claim about the ethnic composition of the
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Pretty much every source of the ethnic composition of Manbij before the Civil War states that "Manbij had an ethnically diverse population of Arab, Kurdish and
Circassian" ethnic background people (explicit quote from the Manbij article on Knowledge (XXG)), and looking for a quantification of those
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The embattled
Erdogan/AKP regime in Turkey is rather desperately trying to publish invented propaganda narratives about the Manbij offensive, in order to save face with respect to their domestic constituency. Fine for them. But these invented propaganda narratives for domestic consumption in Turkey
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Reddit is generally not accepted as a reliable source by
Knowledge (XXG). Its usually removed as a source citing WP policy. Also, I remember a few months back that on Reddit itself people called Knowledge (XXG) unreliable so... Masdar has been in use for years on Knowledge (XXG) as a semi-reliable
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We are not discussing the mentioning of all this, and its vague suggestions of how the ethnic background of fighters on the SDF side might be composed (which by the way changes all the time due to reinforcements) in the text. We are only discussing the obsession by some isolated person here to put
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as you put it. In fact, only SOHR reported Kurds were majority, and it reported before the four other sources said Arabs were majority (Erdogan, Coalition twice, Masdar), so basically the SOHR report is the one being heavily disputed and called incorrect (by the
Coalition). Even though an Erdogan
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At this point of time, the ethnic composition of the (pre-war or current) population of Manbij is not mentioned explicitly or implicitly anywhere in the article (and I am very happy about that). However, I guess my remark is important not only for the past but also for the future, just to deter
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If we look at the "source", we can easily see that the "claim" was that the
Turkish artillery hit their positions in Kobane and its countryside. Even that claim was true, that would not mean that Turkey does support ISIL in Manbij offensive. This article is about Manbij offensive.
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SDF force. I did not touch the newly composed
Erdogan-accommodating narrative about it in the next, however ridiculous and irrelevant I find the whole thing. However, we just cannot state Erdogan's obviously propaganda motivated claims as alleged facts in the box. ---
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It is already mentioned in the article. If you put it into the infobox, that would emphasize the claim. What makes ARA News relatively reliable? If Turkey did want to hinder the progress towrds Manbij, they would directly shell the SDF positions around Manbij.
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I have made a further attempt at compromise and removed the Erdogan source/claim from the infobox alltogether. Now, the figures are cited by the two official Coalition spokesmen and the Masdar news media outlet (both of which have nothing to do with Erdogan).
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is incorrect. Second, I already said two or three times that the US Coalition (twice) and a pro-Assad media outlet also said most are Arabs. The Coalition went as far as to call claims the Kurds were majority are incorrect. So I'm not pushing any
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says the final ISIS convoy that left headed towards Al Bab. Other sources (less reliable, eg, Reddit) say they headed toward Jarablus and then turned west and headed to Al Bab. A regular editor of the article might like to incorporate the info.
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and information, why can't be have the numbers in the box reflect that source? The numbers in the box are still based on that claim Mr. Erdogan made in one early press conference, nobody believes to be true, everybody knows to be invented. --
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from Masdar News (pro-Assad) also reporting on the majority being Arabs. The fact it is being reported on by half a dozen sources makes it relevant and notable enough per WP policy. Also, the Erdogan claim is not being
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In River Rainbow Haag's 'The volunteers' , there's a line that says there is a report of around 7000 fighters in the city of Manbij I believe can we fact check that it isn't 2000 fighters. more like 7000 fighters
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the Manbij frontline, and that the Kurds say that Turkey did so to hinder their progress near Manbij. 3. The claim has not to be realistic, as long as it is sourced and recognizable as simple claim.
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claim. Why you are ignoring the other three sources and are hung up on the Erdogan claim I don't know. Although this in itself can be seen as POV-pushing. Finally, calling a fellow editor an
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There is a huge difference between sources regarding the number of SDF troops deployed, from 2k to 9k. What number should be used. Its unenciclopedic to have such a distant numbers.
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There was an earlier report about a hospital being taken by the SDF. Is the newest report about another hospital or is it just a late report about the same one?
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mentioned in the article, at all. Nether has Manbij been referred to as an Arab town. We were talking about the attacking military force, not the town.
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that ..." , so i think we are ok with that. Someone who will read the article will know that these numbers are according to Turkish sources.
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those numbers freely invented by Mr. Erdogan into the box as alleged facts. And this is openly POV propaganda narrative pushing by
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We can't use that in Knowledge (XXG), please be neutral or i will change all "liberated" into "captured". Same thing happens in
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Even if it is Erdogan's propaganda it is clearly stated in the article that these are Erdogan's words: "However, the next day,
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and accusing him of pushing a POV propaganda is not in accordance with WP policy on civility and assuming good faith.
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So, the "claim" should be removed from the infobox. It can remain in the article, if you still want that.
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YPG can claim that Turkish artillery hit their positions, but that is far from being realistic.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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1204:. I think you owe me an apology at the very least for this unfounded accusation.
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First, it was not me who put it in the article in the first place, it was editor
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attempts of distorting the facts according to the Erdogan propaganda narrative
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source. When something is in question we cite from who the report came from,
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It has been consolidated into a single news item now. Thanks.
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72:
23:
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63:Learn to edit
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1739:source check
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1546:Noyan Sipahi
1540:— Preceding
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1501:Noyan Sipahi
1495:— Preceding
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30:This is the
1586:Ambi Valent
1571:Ambi Valent
1462:SDF forces.
660:Structure:
540:Middle East
351:discussion.
214:In the news
159:free images
42:not a forum
1842:Categories
1776:Report bug
1468:Mr.User200
1182:Excuse me
916:discussion
1759:this tool
1752:this tool
1523:Applodion
1248:Applodion
1199:Applodion
1195:commander
1086:. Editor
1082:Falconet8
921:Terrorism
912:terrorism
884:Terrorism
299:, or any
208:Main Page
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
1765:Cheers.—
1633:Beshogur
1554:contribs
1542:unsigned
1509:contribs
1497:unsigned
1449:Alhanuty
1112:obsessed
621:criteria
528:European
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
1659:my edit
1434:EkoGraf
1363:EkoGraf
1244:EkoGraf
1206:EkoGraf
1150:EkoGraf
1116:EkoGraf
1049:EkoGraf
1026:EkoGraf
948:on the
524:British
490:on the
397:B-class
210:in the
165:WPÂ refs
153:scholar
536:German
532:French
403:scale.
281:revert
277:WP:1RR
137:Google
1414:2A1ZA
1378:2A1ZA
1344:2A1ZA
1324:2A1ZA
1184:2A1ZA
1145:2A1ZA
1078:2A1ZA
1053:2A1ZA
1051:. --
990:2A1ZA
974:2A1ZA
520:Asian
463:Syria
454:Syria
426:Syria
340:aware
279:(one
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
1830:talk
1810:talk
1637:talk
1614:talk
1610:Nurg
1590:talk
1575:talk
1550:talk
1527:talk
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1472:talk
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1418:talk
1382:talk
1367:talk
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1298:talk
1252:talk
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1120:talk
1110:and
1057:talk
1030:talk
994:talk
978:talk
482:High
260:ISIL
258:and
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
1804:. —
1733:RfC
1703:to
1693:to
1683:to
1673:to
940:Mid
187:TWL
1844::
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1746:.
1741:}}
1737:{{
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