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something. I think this characterization of logic (being a part of that namby-pamby philosophy) really relegates it to analyzing literature or rhetoric (or perhaps something even stuffier like philology?) or something fluffy like that. Logic is more about following reason. There are patterns in reason that we call principles. Logic is about identifying them. Arguments are far removed a subject matter within logic from the abstract concepts behind them.
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902:(←) I have no particular objections to leaving this article separate from the metamathematics article. In one reading, metamathematics is theformal study of properties of mathematical systems using mathematical logic, while metalogic is the formal study of logical systems using mathematical logic. The term metalogic seems to be well established in the literature. — Carl
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several areas, one of which is the definition of metalogic, but I didn't want to unilaterally remove it as a reference. As I said above, I think the term is indeed established in the literature. The hyphenated phrases by Hunter, as I said above, seem tautologous rather than clear. I don't understand what you are arguing for in your second paragraph.
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1495:. Methamatematics is the discipline which investigates the formal properties of theories (especially mathematical theories) formulated withing the framework of modern logic (first- and higher-order mathematical logic) as well as properties of the logical framework himself. Today we commonly call this discipline metalogic.
502:. It's quite a nice book. I bought my own copy on amazon recently, and that is why I have been working on some of these topics lately. I am quite fascinated as usual to see the response from the math people in general. You are one of my favorites among them Carl. I'm always interested in your perspective. Be well,
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Carl, I am a little disappointed in your recent reword of the lede. Do you really think "the theory of those formal languages that for one reason or another matter to the logician." is a more satisfying definition? It depends on the interests of certain people?! The previous formulation including the
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I don't know how common the hyphenated-phrase-word is in the literature, nor its distribution in
Continental v. Analytic philosophy. I know they are indispensable in phenomenology with ready-at-hand, being-in-itself, etcetera. I think they are a great tool. On another aside, you may be interested to
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In my opinion
Metalogic and Philosophy of Logic - as the terms are used - relate to distinct (if sometimes ralated) issues & the articles should not be merged. Godel's incompleteness theorem for instance is itself a metalogical theorem; its significance might be an issue in philosophy of logic.
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from metamathematics or mathematical logic, which is odd since the author makes a clear effort to avoid these words in the text. I haven't looked at other authors' use of the term, but at present I see no significant difference between the material presented in this book and the material ordinarily
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eventually break down into dialects because their adherents are enamored with language-in-itself. Mathematicians on the other hand look past all the variations in symbols and notation rather seamlessly because they care about what lies behind the language. So why do you think the hyphenated form is
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This is what I mean by hypercritical to the point of uselessness. Take a step back, take a deep breath, now say it with me Arthur: "Logic concerns itself with the truths-of-logic." You see that wasn't so bad. Your attempts to portray this straightforward statement into a muddled mess will leave the
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My main aim is to make accessible to readers without any specialist training in mathematics, and with only an elementary knowledge of modern logic, complete proofs of metatheorems of standard (i.e.basically truth-functional) first-order logic, including a complete proof of the undecidability of a
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I think this may be a result of a kind of a view of philosophy as some kind of namby-pamby effort. The view that logic is more about "correctness of arguments" than about the actual abstract concepts misses the more important thing going on... it's like we are trying to out-abstract each other or
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I'd sure like to know the difference between metalogic and mathematical logic. If there isn't one, then the merge sounds appropriate. Also I wonder why
Gentzen's consistency proof of PA isn't on the list of results. Also, if "metalogic is the formal study of logical systems using mathematical
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If I presented this outline to a colleague and asked them what sort of course would cover these topics, the answer would be an introductory course in mathematical logic. It appears to me that, despite the terminology employed in various parts of the book, its main purpose is to present the basic
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I found a different reference that I believe expresses the same idea as Hunter's preface, but more clearly, and added that to the lede. I also added what I think it a slightly more clear definition by Hunter himself. After looking through it, I don't see Hunter's book as particularly precise in
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RE: "the author makes a clear effort to avoid these words in the text". Is this true, or is it that "mathematical logic" wasn't standard usage as a term when the book was written? I say this having studied mathematical logic in a math course, as well as having taken a philosophy class titled
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I hope that this book will equip those who are not mathematical specialists not only to tackle more advanced works on standard logic, such as Kleene or
Mendelson or Shoenfield or Smullyan, but to frame philosophically interesting systems of non-standard logic and to prove metatheorems about
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That latter topic, about non-standard logic, does not seem to be covered in detail, based on my reading of the full table of contents. What is covered in detail is a first course in mathematical logic, occasionally with nonstandard terminology. — Carl
1224:"Symbolic Logic" - where the professor said on the first day that the course would be more accurately described as "Mathematical Logic". Go figure. Anyway, our textbooks were, {drumroll}, Metalogic by Hunter, and Computability and Logic by Boolos.
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I also don't know what "Logic concerns itself with the truths-of-logic." means; it seem tautologous. Is that a quote from the reference? The reference is fortunately available at the library, so I'm going to pick it up on the way home. — Carl
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Does anyone know what this is supposed to mean? Maybe someone was trying to make a point, but what? The word is just meta+logic. How is μεταλογική an
English term? I'll delete it unless there are reasonable objections.
446:). The source is a reliable one. It may not be good enough for you to recognize it's existence, but that doesn't matter at all. It does exist. It's a source that may or may not agree with your thesis. Live with it.
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hyphenated words was certainly a more precise and rigorous account. I pieced it together from the text so as to make sense, rather than use a quote that falls way short. I am truly puzzled. Please reconsider.
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I never said that
Metalogic isn't m + p theory. It seems to me that there are some formal language fundamentals that need to be understood commonly in order to move on to either Proof theory or Model theory
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more accurately: routine of change (dancing numbers in the matrices of sets, which might not cause any physical change, but sometimes they do) - any algorithmic routine within topological algebra (read:
384:. We also need a citation for use of the term, and some citation for its importance in the field (whatever field that might be). So a merger is inappropriate but stubification might very well be. —
1297:(on gbooks) to see what exactly metalogic is. Those chapters cover soundness, completeness, Godel's theorems, some computability. Based on that, metalogic is the name given by some philosophers to
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I would tend to agree with the sentiment given by your professor, that the material Hunter covers is typically called mathematical logic. Every author has a viewpoint. Hunter says in his preface,
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goal. Tarski's philosophical goal was to provide a definition of the ordinary notion of truth, that is the notions of truth commonly used in science, mathematics, and everyday discourse.
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When juxtaposed with the other hyphenated term, the distinction being discussed is clear (even if by itself it is not). The phrase and term are from the book. This material is on the
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commies are cosmologically antipersonocrats, but at the same time hardcore political personocrats; and their philosophy of atheism is metalogically inferior than that of the
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I was just about to go in and remove the hyphens in favor of italicization. Thanks Carl. The whole thing looks wonderful now (although it is still a stub). What's next?
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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I'm neutral at the moment. I don't have a clear distinction to propose between metalogic and metamathematics. On the other hand I essentially never use the word
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is: metalogic -- study of formal properties, e.g. consistency, completeness, decidability of formal logical systems. I think this article verges on being just a
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merger of metalogic and metamathematics articles. Specifically, the merger has no support from editors of the metamathematics article beyond the proposer.
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before you nuke IRAN, don't be IRAN (a cosmological personocrat); before you nuke the
Russian President, don't be a cosmological personocrat like him
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In fact it also appears that philosophy of mathematics and philosophy of logic are taught as separate classes, with substantially different syllabi.
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1524:. It could be that some of those who do use the word, do see a distinction. I would like to hear more from anyone who distinguishes the terms. --
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I am planning to look up the other reference in the article, to see if it has any deeper discussion of metalogic that could be used here. — Carl
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The metalogical definition of energy in respect to the topological definition of physics (usage of matrices, filters, σ-algebra etc)
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As for Greg's immediate comment, _mathematical_ "philosophy of logic" and _logical_ or _mathematical_ "philosophy of mathematics"
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logic" (per Carl) then shouldn't there be a lot more topics mentioned, like modal logic, temporal logic, categorical logic, etc.?
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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results of mathematical logic from a different perspective. I see no explanation in the book of how the results
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energy = change or potentiality of change (when we describe the wave function within set theory)
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with specific points to improve the article (or to support your proposed article). This page is
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the same. Possibly, there is some distinction in matters far removed from mathematics.... —
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is what I would have put here if I had full access to the internals of
Knowledge. —
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I have the reference in front of me. Here is a summary of the table of contents
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Proof of the incompleteness of the full theory of the natural numbers **
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In spite of the introduction to the book, that definition clearly
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It think this article should be merged with metamathematics.
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Please create the Chinese page, or even pay a translator.
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is personhood self-causal? some physicists claim that
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It is my understanding that artificial languages like
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system of first-order predicate logic with identity.
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You can look at the other reference on google books.
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1649:ἀθεότητα ἀθεότης godlessness αθεότητα αθεότης
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1789:— Preceding
1784:
1781:Chinese: 元逻辑
1776:Translations
1759:
1724:. Thanks, —
1693:— Preceding
1678:
1648:
1620:
1612:
1594:Arthur Rubin
1589:
1576:Arthur Rubin
1540:
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1380:Arthur Rubin
1375:
1374:
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1346:Eric_Herboso
1341:
1340:
1336:
1333:No consensus
1332:
1291:
1063:
1016:metatheorems
993:decidability
946:
822:formal proof
614:Arthur Rubin
609:
587:Arthur Rubin
583:proof theory
579:model theory
570:
558:Arthur Rubin
549:
545:
542:proof theory
538:model theory
536:is not then
500:page 3 intro
427:Arthur Rubin
422:
414:
404:
386:Arthur Rubin
382:proof theory
378:model theory
374:formal logic
373:
342:
339:oppose merge
249:
217:
207:
137:Low-priority
136:
96:
62:Low‑priority
40:WikiProjects
1644:godlessness
1255:and later,
1141:—Preceding
1013:consistency
984:consistency
861:—Preceding
847:metatheorem
717:so strange?
112:Mathematics
103:mathematics
59:Mathematics
30:Start-class
1830:Categories
1690:free world
1562:I thought
1409:Comments:
1331:Result is
1307:WP:DICTDEF
1226:Tparameter
225:Philosophy
214:philosophy
164:Philosophy
1679:metalogic
1637:mereology
1621:make page
1564:metalogic
1526:Trovatore
1522:metalogic
1411:Trovatore
981:semantics
710:Esperanto
534:metalogic
407:metalogic
332:was keep.
1791:unsigned
1695:unsigned
1430:WP:ANRFC
1421:contribs
1404:contribs
1390:contribs
1378:!votes:
1370:contribs
1360:Gregbard
1356:contribs
1344:!votes:
875:contribs
867:Gregbard
863:unsigned
646:however.
571:excludes
354:agreed.
1732:Neonate
1675:quality
1627:(not a
1376:Support
1143:comment
743:see an
714:Volapük
401:Dubious
346:Philogo
322:merging
252:on the
139:on the
1597:(talk)
1579:(talk)
1568:WP:NEO
1566:was a
1342:Oppose
1337:Oppose
1064:differ
618:(talk)
591:(talk)
585:). —
562:(talk)
554:German
431:(talk)
425:). —
390:(talk)
36:scale.
1727:Paleo
1718:cited
1437:Isaac
1259:them.
546:false
444:WP:OR
419:logic
415:false
411:logic
324:with
291:Logic
169:Logic
1799:talk
1767:talk
1751:edit
1716:are
1703:talk
1635:and
1553:talk
1530:talk
1511:ping
1507:Pcap
1415:talk
1398:talk
1394:Pcap
1384:talk
1364:talk
1350:talk
1315:ping
1311:Pcap
1303:here
1288:2009
1273:talk
1230:talk
1202:talk
1170:talk
1136:talk
1105:talk
1075:talk
910:talk
871:talk
753:talk
712:and
610:that
508:talk
477:talk
452:talk
380:and
360:talk
244:High
1590:are
1541:two
1445:Vex
1434:Van
1432:by
1269:CBM
1198:CBM
1132:CBM
1071:CBM
906:CBM
859:)
616:|
589:|
560:|
550:all
473:CBM
429:|
388:|
131:Low
1832::
1801:)
1769:)
1735:–
1705:)
1623::
1555:)
1532:)
1499:”
1478:“
1469::
1442:WS
1423:)
1309:.
1271:·
1232:)
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1134:·
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1073:·
908:·
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873:•
755:)
747:.
606:}}
600:{{
540:+
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475:·
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344:--
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143:.
42::
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