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Talk:Multiplicity (mathematics)

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84: 74: 53: 324:(namely division of the polynomial by a factor corresponding to the root), and that only if the root still persists as a solution of te new problem does one consider it to occur more than once. The text already says this, and the lead section already says that multiplicity in general means being present multiple times, when a precise meaning can be given to that. So what does the sentence really add? 22: 1263: 1211: 1159: 471:
isn't, I think none of the definitions given applies, so one can only conclude that the zero has no multiplicity at all (not even multiplicity zero). Other problematic points are infinite multiplicities (which are not allowed in the most common definition of multiset; even those who prefer to be more liberal make it a
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The problem is that this is just informal language; there is no such thing as "occurring as a solution" in general; a value either is a solution of a problem, or it isn't. The reason that one can define multiplicity in the case of a polynomial equation is that there is a method to "remove" a solution
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Hey guys, I appreciate the precise mathematical definition of the multiplicity of the zeros of a function, but how about a simple one line explanation that the multiplicity of a root is the number of times that root is repeated? Followed by a simple example, like the root of f(x) = (x-1)^3 is 1, with
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This could be something simple, like "if k is an underestimate, then the limit evaluates to 0, and if k is an overestimate, then the limit evaluates to ∞, which is not a real number." Or it could give a full-fledged derivation for why both of these is the case. Regardless, an explanation is needed,
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In its current state, this section is not correctly formulated, and is a very bad illustration of the general notion of multiplicity. Since nothing is required of the function (an indeed the interval is not even required to not be reduced to a point), it need not be continuous at its zero; if it
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Can anyone suggest a better way of resolving this confusion? I do not now have time to look into this further, but perhaps we have somewhere else an article which includes a description of his ideas of "multiplicity", and we could link
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I don't really have any real expertise on this topic; I'm just going by what I see on face value (plus a little, I guess), so if there's any mistaken impression here, feel free to correct me, and there will be no hard feelings. :)
769:) = 0. Thus the formulation "a solution of ... is a root of multiplicity ..." may be confusing for some readers, as using two different words for the same concept. For this reason, I suggest the following formulation: 512:?). I insist that while infinite multiplicities can be admitted in some cases (any "root" of the zero polynomial), ordinary use of "multiplicity" does not allow it to be just any real number (and why not 1055:, ed. Jean van Heijenoort, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, 1967, pp. 113–117. These references both purport to be a letter from Cantor to Dedekind, dated July 28, 1899. However, as 219:
OK. That looks like a better category. But this raises the question of whether "Numerical analysis" should be a subcategory of "Mathematical analysis". It seems like it should be, but it is not now.
1120:, the meanings of "multiplicity" that refer to other concepts than the one of this article do not belong to it. So, Knowledge rules justify my revert. The only thing that you can do is to use 140: 1282: 913:, saying that this is the common-language meaning. It seems to me however that neither a set, nor an ordered set (which he seems to have meant here), is covered by the definitions at 925:
seems to me to help no-one. I changed that to link to my new section, but since that has been removed, it just links to the entire page, which is even worse. What I added was this:
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is not a root, one may say that it is a root of multiplicity zero. This may be useful for simplifying some statements and proofs. IMO, it is not useful to mention this here.
184:. My point was that multiplicity of roots is used more widely than numerical analysis. Hence, I should have put it in a more general category. I have now added 308:
I added- Multiplicity can be thought of as "How many times does the solution appear in the original equation?". hopefully making it explicit and more clear.
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In my experience, root, zero, & solution are used more or less interchangeably in this context. We need links to Root_of_a_function and I added a few.
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is not just about multisets. It also and mostly talks about the multiplicity of roots of a function. So it should not just be in the
1273: 1255: 1221: 1203: 1169: 1151: 406: 245:. I don't see the rationale for that, so I changed it to make num. analysis a subcategory of math. analysis as JRSpriggs suggest. -- 1199: 1017: 97: 58: 1051:, Georg Cantor, ed. Ernst Zermelo, Hildesheim: Georg Olms Verlagsbuchhandlung, 1962, pp. 443–447; translated into English in 287: 238: 202: 185: 33: 1290: 1238: 1186: 1013:
by Jané; with biography by Adolf Fraenkel; reprinted Hildesheim: Georg Olms, 1962, and Berlin: Springer-Verlag, 1980,
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Just a suggestion, for easier reading and to be a bit more concise, to change the first 2 sentences of the section
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Multiplicity of a zero section needs an added explanation of why it won't overestimate the multiplicity
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Then edit it... However, in analysis, I think that the zeroes of a function is more common than roots.
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The article should be consistent in using root or zeros. Root is the more common in scientific use.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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It is clear that Cantor or its translator used "multiplicity" for what is presently called a
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Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 14 § Multiplicity of a restricted root
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The system Ω of all numbers is an inconsistent, absolutely infinite multiplicity.
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reverted an edit of mine to explain the usage of "multiplicity" by Cantor at
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It could also be pointed out that k need not necessarily be an integer. Take
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with several elements. This the common meaning of the term as expressed in
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Multiplicity of a zero section should be rewritten for precision or removed
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Other senses: usage by Cantor not (evidently) the common-language meaning.
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Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 7 § Repeated roots
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Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 14 § Multiplicities
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if it fulfills the condition that every sub-multiplicity has a first
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has discovered, this is in fact an amalgamation by Cantor's editor,
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From Frege to Gödel: A Source Book in Mathematical Logic, 1879-1931
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In the standard mathematical terminology, a root of the polynomial
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Gesammelte Abhandlungen mathematischen und philosophischen Inhalts
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to this page to explain that usage, as linking "multiplicity" to
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Some older or translated texts use this term differently:
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in the previous post, and removed a duplicate signature.
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Now I envisage the system of all numbers and denote it
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If you agree, feel free to insert this in the article.
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The Rediscovery of the Cantor-Dedekind Correspondence
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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Jahresbericht der Deutschen Mathematiker-Vereinigung
958:; such a multiplicity I call for short a "sequence". 101:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 941:(text in square brackets not present in original): 500: 761:) is, by definition, a solution of the equation 272:a multiplicity of 3, because it occurs 3 times. 1302:Other redirects being discussed with this are: 944: 996: 994: 388: 8: 439:There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain, 19: 1001:Georg Cantor (1932). Ernst Zermelo (ed.). 423:* A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. 47: 492: 480: 180:Fair point, I was a bit rash in removing 990: 431:A little Learning is a dangerous Thing; 49: 1312:Multiplicity of a root of a polynomial 1116:("A large indeterminate number"). Per 1076:there, and maybe add a hat note here. 537:Multiplicity of a root of a polynomial 267:Multiplicity of a root of a polynomial 1039:(1974/75), pp. 104–139, at p. 126 ff. 1007:. Berlin: Verlag von Julius Springer. 441:And drinking largely sobers us again. 7: 570:in one variable and coefficients in 501:{\displaystyle x\mapsto x^{\alpha }} 95:This article is within the scope of 38:It is of interest to the following 14: 1374:Low-priority mathematics articles 1217:Multiplicity of a restricted root 1200:Multiplicity of a restricted root 516:for tomorrow's new application?) 115:Knowledge:WikiProject Mathematics 1369:Start-Class mathematics articles 1261: 1209: 1157: 118:Template:WikiProject Mathematics 82: 72: 51: 20: 1286:until a consensus is reached. 1234:until a consensus is reached. 1182:until a consensus is reached. 135:This article has been rated as 1354:14:26, 21 September 2024 (UTC) 485: 239:Category:Mathematical analysis 203:Category:Mathematical analysis 186:Category:Mathematical analysis 1: 1297:16:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC) 801:) (that is a solution of the 508:for any positive real number 457:07:38, 13 December 2018 (UTC) 433:Drink deep, or taste not the 109:and see a list of open tasks. 1140:13:03, 6 November 2022 (UTC) 1088:12:06, 6 November 2022 (UTC) 892:16:43, 4 November 2017 (UTC) 748:16:09, 4 November 2017 (UTC) 664:in one variable. A solution 401:at 0, for a simple example. 369:23:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC) 354:22:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC) 1245:12:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC) 1193:12:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC) 598:) if there is a polynomial 304:01:15, 7 January 2009 (UTC) 231:Category:Numerical analysis 188:. Does that make sense? -- 182:Category:Numerical analysis 168:Category:Numerical analysis 1390: 1094:I have added the template 864:is a root of multiplicity 415:01:00, 15 April 2009 (UTC) 290:) 18:59, 20 Oct 2006 (UTC) 820:if there is a polynomial 692:if there is a polynomial 526:08:51, 3 April 2011 (UTC) 243:Category:Musical analysis 205:is the good one I think. 134: 67: 46: 1324:Simple root (polynomial) 1274:redirects for discussion 1256:Redirects for discussion 1222:redirects for discussion 1204:Redirects for discussion 1170:redirects for discussion 1152:Redirects for discussion 917:. I had added a section 141:project's priority scale 1049:Gesammelte Abhandlungen 1032:, I. Grattan-Guinness, 816:) has the multiplicity 384:20:42, 2 May 2011 (UTC) 334:03:39, 3 May 2011 (UTC) 318:19:09, 2 May 2011 (UTC) 255:06:54, 4 May 2006 (UTC) 225:07:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 215:15:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC) 198:12:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC) 175:06:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC) 98:WikiProject Mathematics 1308:Multiplicity of a root 983: 860:). One says also that 502: 237:, which also contains 28:This article is rated 1057:Ivor Grattan-Guinness 503: 479: 233:is a subcategory of 121:mathematics articles 1278:redirect guidelines 1272:has been listed at 1226:redirect guidelines 1220:has been listed at 1174:redirect guidelines 1168:has been listed at 786:in one variable. A 164:Category:Set theory 1304:Order of vanishing 498: 90:Mathematics portal 34:content assessment 1114:Wikt:multiplicity 1105: 1074:Absolute infinite 915:wikt:multiplicity 911:Absolute infinite 291: 278:comment added by 235:Category:Analysis 155: 154: 151: 150: 147: 146: 1381: 1352: 1347: 1271: 1265: 1219: 1213: 1167: 1161: 1129: 1123: 1103: 1097: 1093: 1064: 1046: 1040: 1027: 1021: 1008: 998: 908: 688:of multiplicity 586:of multiplicity 518:Marc van Leeuwen 507: 505: 504: 499: 497: 496: 326:Marc van Leeuwen 273: 123: 122: 119: 116: 113: 92: 87: 86: 76: 69: 68: 63: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 1389: 1388: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1359: 1358: 1348: 1343: 1267: 1259: 1215: 1207: 1163: 1155: 1127: 1121: 1101: 1095: 1069: 1068: 1067: 1047: 1043: 1028: 1024: 1000: 999: 992: 923:cardinal number 902: 900: 878:By the way, if 533: 488: 477: 476: 473:cardinal number 468: 391: 342: 294:I second that. 269: 229:At the moment, 207:Oleg Alexandrov 160: 120: 117: 114: 111: 110: 88: 81: 61: 32:on Knowledge's 29: 12: 11: 5: 1387: 1385: 1377: 1376: 1371: 1361: 1360: 1357: 1356: 1269:Repeated roots 1258: 1252:Repeated roots 1248: 1206: 1196: 1165:Multiplicities 1154: 1148:Multiplicities 1144: 1143: 1142: 1106: 1066: 1065: 1041: 1022: 989: 988: 984: 976: 975: 973: 972: 970: 969: 963: 962: 960: 959: 943: 942: 931: 930: 899: 896: 895: 894: 876: 873: 872: 871: 870: 869: 736: 735: 734: 733: 647: 646: 642: 641: 640: 639: 545: 544: 532: 529: 495: 491: 487: 484: 467: 464: 463: 462: 461: 460: 459: 447: 445:Alexander Pope 440: 438: 435:Pierian Spring 432: 425: 424: 421: 390: 387: 372: 371: 346:Thomas Nygreen 341: 338: 337: 336: 268: 265: 264: 263: 262: 261: 260: 259: 258: 257: 159: 156: 153: 152: 149: 148: 145: 144: 133: 127: 126: 124: 107:the discussion 94: 93: 77: 65: 64: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1386: 1375: 1372: 1370: 1367: 1366: 1364: 1355: 1351: 1346: 1341: 1340:Repeated root 1337: 1333: 1329: 1325: 1321: 1317: 1316:Multiple root 1313: 1309: 1305: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1298: 1295: 1292: 1289: 1285: 1284: 1279: 1275: 1270: 1266:The redirect 1264: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1247: 1246: 1243: 1240: 1237: 1233: 1232: 1227: 1223: 1218: 1214:The redirect 1212: 1205: 1201: 1197: 1195: 1194: 1191: 1188: 1185: 1181: 1180: 1175: 1171: 1166: 1162:The redirect 1160: 1153: 1149: 1145: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1126: 1119: 1115: 1111: 1107: 1100: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1085: 1081: 1077: 1075: 1062: 1061:Ernst Zermelo 1058: 1054: 1050: 1045: 1042: 1038: 1035: 1031: 1026: 1023: 1019: 1018:3-540-09849-6 1016: 1012: 1006: 1005: 997: 995: 991: 987: 982: 981: 977: 967: 957: 953: 949: 940: 936: 933: 932: 928: 927: 926: 924: 920: 916: 912: 906: 897: 893: 889: 885: 881: 877: 874: 867: 863: 859: 855: 851: 847: 843: 839: 835: 831: 827: 823: 819: 815: 811: 807: 804: 800: 796: 792: 789: 785: 781: 777: 773: 772: 771: 770: 768: 764: 760: 756: 752: 751: 750: 749: 745: 741: 731: 727: 723: 719: 715: 711: 707: 703: 699: 695: 691: 687: 683: 679: 675: 671: 667: 663: 659: 655: 651: 650: 649: 648: 644: 643: 637: 633: 629: 625: 621: 617: 613: 609: 605: 601: 597: 593: 589: 585: 581: 577: 574:. An element 573: 569: 565: 561: 557: 553: 549: 548: 547: 546: 542: 541: 540: 538: 530: 528: 527: 523: 519: 515: 511: 493: 489: 482: 474: 465: 458: 455: 451: 446: 442: 436: 429: 428: 427: 426: 422: 419: 418: 417: 416: 412: 408: 402: 400: 395: 386: 385: 381: 377: 370: 366: 362: 358: 357: 356: 355: 351: 347: 339: 335: 331: 327: 322: 321: 320: 319: 315: 311: 306: 305: 301: 297: 292: 289: 285: 281: 277: 266: 256: 252: 248: 244: 240: 236: 232: 228: 227: 226: 223: 218: 217: 216: 212: 208: 204: 201: 200: 199: 195: 191: 187: 183: 179: 178: 177: 176: 173: 169: 165: 157: 142: 138: 132: 129: 128: 125: 108: 104: 100: 99: 91: 85: 80: 78: 75: 71: 70: 66: 60: 57: 54: 50: 45: 41: 35: 27: 23: 18: 17: 1336:Double roots 1281: 1260: 1254:" listed at 1229: 1208: 1202:" listed at 1177: 1156: 1150:" listed at 1078: 1070: 1052: 1048: 1044: 1036: 1033: 1025: 1011:Cantor 1883b 1010: 1003: 985: 979: 978: 965: 952:well-ordered 948:multiplicity 945: 935:Georg Cantor 919:Other Senses 918: 901: 879: 865: 861: 857: 853: 849: 845: 841: 837: 833: 829: 828:) such that 825: 821: 817: 813: 809: 805: 798: 794: 790: 779: 775: 766: 762: 758: 754: 737: 729: 725: 721: 717: 713: 709: 705: 701: 700:) such that 697: 693: 689: 681: 677: 673: 669: 665: 657: 653: 635: 631: 627: 623: 619: 615: 611: 607: 606:) such that 603: 599: 595: 591: 587: 579: 575: 571: 563: 559: 551: 536: 534: 509: 469: 430: 407:69.91.95.139 403: 398: 396: 392: 373: 343: 340:Root / zeros 307: 293: 270: 247:Jitse Niesen 190:Jitse Niesen 161: 137:Low-priority 136: 96: 62:Low‑priority 40:WikiProjects 1332:Double root 1328:Simple zero 1320:Simple root 939:ordered set 514:quaternions 274:—Preceding 112:Mathematics 103:mathematics 59:Mathematics 30:Start-class 1363:Categories 1118:WP:NOTDICT 986:References 974:Therefore: 950:is called 836:) ≠ 0 and 784:polynomial 740:Bob K31416 708:) ≠ 0 and 662:polynomial 614:) ≠ 0 and 568:polynomial 420:"None"?... 158:Categories 1009:Cited as 376:Nickalh50 310:Nickalh50 296:Myers6609 222:JRSpriggs 172:JRSpriggs 1291:1234qwer 1288:1234qwer 1239:1234qwer 1236:1234qwer 1187:1234qwer 1184:1234qwer 1132:D.Lazard 1080:PJTraill 905:D.Lazard 884:D.Lazard 803:equation 399:f(X) = X 361:mattbuck 288:contribs 280:Nedunuri 276:unsigned 1099:talkref 956:element 782:) be a 660:) be a 566:) be a 139:on the 1338:, and 394:IMHO. 36:scale. 844:) = ( 716:) = ( 684:is a 622:) = ( 582:is a 556:field 554:be a 450:Jerzy 1136:talk 1125:wikt 1084:talk 1015:ISBN 888:talk 812:) = 788:root 774:Let 744:talk 686:root 680:) = 652:Let 584:root 558:and 550:Let 543:from 531:Root 522:talk 411:talk 380:talk 365:talk 350:talk 330:talk 314:talk 300:talk 284:talk 251:talk 241:and 211:talk 194:talk 1345:Jay 1110:set 971:... 961:... 793:of 672:of 590:of 539:, 131:Low 1365:: 1350:💬 1334:, 1330:, 1326:, 1322:, 1318:, 1314:, 1310:, 1306:, 1138:) 1128:}} 1122:{{ 1102:}} 1096:{{ 1086:) 1037:76 993:^ 946:A 890:) 848:− 746:) 738:-- 732:). 720:− 668:= 645:to 638:). 626:− 578:∈ 524:) 494:α 486:↦ 448:-- 443:~ 413:) 405:-- 382:) 367:) 352:) 332:) 316:) 302:) 286:• 253:) 213:) 196:) 1342:. 1294:4 1250:" 1242:4 1198:" 1190:4 1146:" 1134:( 1082:( 1020:. 968:. 966:Ω 907:: 903:@ 886:( 880:a 868:. 866:k 862:a 858:x 856:( 854:s 852:) 850:a 846:x 842:x 840:( 838:p 834:a 832:( 830:s 826:x 824:( 822:s 818:k 814:0 810:x 808:( 806:p 799:x 797:( 795:p 791:a 780:x 778:( 776:p 767:x 765:( 763:p 759:x 757:( 755:p 742:( 730:x 728:( 726:s 724:) 722:a 718:x 714:x 712:( 710:p 706:a 704:( 702:s 698:x 696:( 694:s 690:k 682:0 678:x 676:( 674:p 670:a 666:x 658:x 656:( 654:p 636:x 634:( 632:s 630:) 628:a 624:x 620:x 618:( 616:p 612:a 610:( 608:s 604:x 602:( 600:s 596:x 594:( 592:p 588:k 580:F 576:a 572:F 564:x 562:( 560:p 552:F 520:( 510:α 490:x 483:x 454:t 452:• 437:: 409:( 378:( 363:( 348:( 328:( 312:( 298:( 282:( 249:( 209:( 192:( 143:. 42::

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Category:Set theory
Category:Numerical analysis
JRSpriggs
06:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
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Category:Mathematical analysis
Jitse Niesen
talk
12:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Category:Mathematical analysis
Oleg Alexandrov
talk
15:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
JRSpriggs
07:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Category:Numerical analysis
Category:Analysis

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