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objective history but memoirs. It seems unlikely for example that the
Natchez should have a caste called "stinkards" which is clearly a French word. Any use of 17th century should be as a primary source, i.e. with in text attribution and no interpretation. The article needs to find more contemporary sources written by historians who have critically analyzed primary sources such as those that support the bulk of the article in its current state.
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tears. The massacre basically marks the end of the
Natchez as a coherent nation. The article currently says that it "did not result in significant setbacks for the natives". Generally the article ignores the larger context of colonization of which the massacre and the French-Natchez wars were part, and it could do a better job at giving attention to the historical events leading up to the massacre and those following it.
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supply page numbers. The chapter which is a summary of his 2008 book in French contradicts a lot of the romantic view of settler harmony and shows that there was increasing tensions between
Natchez and French in the decades before the revolt, and he als shows that the retaliations by the French chased destroyed the Natchez as a people forcing them to live scattered among Creek and Cherokees as refugees by 1740.
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that the massacre of Fort
Rosalie was a revolt against an increasingly intrusive and oppresive form of colonization by the French, and call it a revolt. I think Natchez revolt is a better title both because of this, and because it better describes the topic of the article which is the entire situation surrounding the French/Natchez hostilities, and not only the massacre at Fort Rosalie.
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I think that the title is a little problematic both because it is somewhat non-neutral focusing solely on the casualties inflicted by
Natchez against French and not on the subsequent retaliation by the French which basically amounted to genocide. Secondly most of the recent sources focus on the fact
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The article currently seems to contradict the article on the
Natchez people, which describes the 1730-31 war between the Natchez and the French as a disaster for the Natchez who ended up with no territory living dispersed among Cherokee and Chickasaw, and eventually driven to Oklahoma on the trail of
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It was neither a revolt nor was it an act of war as their bloodletting was not committed against a military target. It was a massacre perpetrated against innocent French civilians, the majority of whom did not survive. To call it a revolt is an omission of fact to the point of insult to the memory of
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I have added sme information from Arnaud Balvay's 2013 chapter in the edited volume The French and the
Indians in the Heart of North America. I have ordered the book through interlibrary loan, but as for now I have been using the google preview which has no page numbers. When the book arrives I will
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A battle during a war then. The article indicates several months of conflict, not one day. Revolt implies the
Natchez were subjects of the French but I don't see anything supporting that. Independent peoples & nations don't 'revolt' against other nations, only their own nation. It is certainly a
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The article uses a number of 18th century accounts by Dumont de
Montigny, Le Page du Pratz and as if they were an objective sources of history, when in fact they are historical documents. They obviously are not objective historical accounts, as they were partial to the event and were not writing
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And finally there is an MA thesis from the LSU history department called "THESE SAVAGES ARE CALLED THE NATCHEZ: VIOLENCE AS EXCHANGE AND EXPRESSION IN NATCHEZ-FRENCH RELATIONS" that is probably not the best source, but at least as good as 300 year old primary sources and which is definitely an
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We also claim that the NAtchez woman who warned the French of the attack was
Tattooed Arm. This seems unlikely given that she was the Female Chief of the matrilineal Natchez. Barnett states that it was the Natchez lover of a French officer, citing Du Pratz.
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The Number of dead. Currently the article says 240. Barnett gives two figures that are quite a bit lower. Ive removed the Conrad source wiwhich was cited for the 240 figure - and which does not seem to be a specialized source regarding the
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Well I certainly wouldn't call it a war because it took place in only one day. Calling it a revolt is more appropriate because the Natchez were protesting the French's intervention in their society and it was relatively short-term.
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OK, you have a pretty convincing argument. I will change the title to "Natchez revolt" and start updating links in other articles, though hopefully this won't be a disruption to the upcoming A-class review?
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I would encourage a much greater reliance on sources such as Sayre. Also Barnett's 2007, "The Natchez Indians: A History To 1735", seems to be an excellent source compared to reading the old French memoires.
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there's no point in replying to a 7+ years old post. There is a more recent but still old discussion at the bottom. To change it you'd have to show that most reliable sources call it something else. See
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We give the date of the massacre as November 29th - Barnett 2007:104 gives November 28th. Which is it? Du Pratz says they set out on the eve of St. Andrew which is the night of november 29th.
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Patricia D. WoodsThe French and the Natchez Indians in Louisiana: 1700-1731 Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association Vol. 19, No. 4 (Autumn, 1978), pp. 413-435
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Douglas R. White, George P. Murdock and Richard Scaglion. Natchez Class and Rank Reconsidered. Ethnology Vol. 10, No. 4 (Oct., 1971), pp. 369-388 (regarding the "stinkards")
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It is unclear from the article, or links, why this is called a 'revolt' as opposed to a 'war' between the Natchez & the French. Can some clarifying citations be added?
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common misapplication in imperial and colonial times to justify aggression against other independent entities as putting down 'revolts' or 'rebellions'. According to
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This is a really nice article, clear and concise, describing a specific incident. I have been through the article and made a couple of copy edits.
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this was one of 4 wars and it is there called a 'rebellion' without any substantiation that this is about an actual rebellion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Nah, it shouldn't be a disruption, but certainly something we would want to have figured out by the end of the review.
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I have just one question before I complete the review. In the lede it says: "The governor of the colony,
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ALBRECHT, A. C. (1946), INDIAN-FRENCH RELATIONS AT NATCHEZ. American Anthropologist, 48: 321–354.
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Then how about we just go with "massacre"? That's in the title of the article, anyway.
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the innocent French colonials who died at the hands of the Natchez savages that day.
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MOONEY, J. (1899), THE END OF THE NATCHEZ. American Anthropologist, 1: 510–521
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Title: Proposed move to Natchez revolt, or Natchez Wars
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30:This is the
1917:Doug Weller
1490:, respects
1463:review-see
1348:transcluded
1049:Mississippi
524:Phabricator
308:Peer review
159:free images
42:not a forum
2109:Categories
1551:verifiable
1486:a. prose:
1301:Authorship
1287:GA toolbox
1008:has passed
462:column on
413:column on
216:identified
2016:Additions
1681:edit wars
1360:Reviewer:
1324:Templates
1315:Reviewing
1280:GA Review
1045:Louisiana
452:Main Page
435:Louisiana
403:Main Page
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
2077:Jsayre64
2044:Natchez.
1905:Mrjrcash
1889:Mrjrcash
1865:Jsayre64
1826:Jsayre64
1784:Jsayre64
1699:contain
1697:Does it
1465:WP:WIAGA
1442:Jsayre64
1373:contribs
1329:Criteria
790:European
554:FA-class
430:attacked
389:Promoted
370:Approved
313:Reviewed
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
2007:snunɐw·
2003:·ʍaunus
1974:snunɐw·
1970:·ʍaunus
1960:snunɐw·
1956:·ʍaunus
1941:snunɐw·
1937:·ʍaunus
1802:Revolt?
1743:Overall
1683:, etc:
1524:fiction
1161:on the
1053:History
760:on the
663:on the
636:History
627:History
583:History
526:and on
454:in the
405:in the
272:Process
165:WP refs
153:scholar
2084:(talk)
1981:Also:
1872:(talk)
1849:Tttom1
1833:(talk)
1808:Tttom1
1791:(talk)
1701:images
1674:stable
1672:Is it
1653:policy
1611:Is it
1544:Is it
1526:, and
1516:layout
1479:Is it
1449:(talk)
1396:review
1127:Alerts
794:French
560:scale.
474:, and
294:Listed
275:Result
137:Google
1577:from
1469:(and
1350:from
209:is a
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
1921:talk
1893:talk
1853:talk
1812:talk
1771:talk
1548:and
1512:lead
1510:for
1472:here
1433:Done
1417:talk
1387:talk
1367:talk
269:Date
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
1679:no
1634:):
1593:c.
1508:MoS
1153:Low
1011:an
752:Low
655:Low
187:TWL
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1461:GA
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