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dramatic ones. Likewise 'had
Hollywood at her feet, but her potential as an actress was often compromised by her defiant personality.' does not suit an encyclopaedia. The reference to Demi Moore is too trivial. The references to relationships which were not age-appropriate are prurient without further context. Otherwise this piece presents Kinski as some trite and possibly wounded personage from some time ago. She has a serious body of work and the page as it stands is almost salacious instead.
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give the subject more perspective, along with her own impression of costs. Feel free to edit to avoid excessive irrelevance. There was actually a lot more stuff I kept out in order to give a brief summary of this particular film. I agree, however, that discussing one particular film, where the others were merely named, does look out of balance. But from other actor bios I've helped on, it's mostly because this bio is pretty brief to begin with. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:36, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
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perspective, along with her own impression of costs. Feel free to edit to avoid excessive irrelevance. There was actually a lot more stuff I kept out in order to give a brief summary of this particular film. I agree, however, that discussing one particular film, where the others were merely named, does look out of balance. But from other actor bios I've helped on, it's mostly because this bio is pretty brief to begin with. --
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that might mean law suits all around for the company distributing the videos. It might therefore suit the industry money-men to collude in the 1959 date. Wasn't there a similar case about the famous
American porn actress Tracy Lords who was later found to have lied about her age, resulting in zillions of tons of celluiloid having to be destroyed and lots of money going up in smoke cos she was under-age in her films?
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closure of the Iron
Curtain these were relocated to areas behind the present day borders. Even tough there is still some local animosity about the subject about historical rightfulness - all this does not belong in the article, especially not about Nastassja Kinski's descent. She did not live in the XVIII century. --
764:(for a fee)! By the way, you could also address yourself to the Munich authorities, where she lived until she moved to NY. But I fear, this is wasted money. There are two German sources which are more reliable than informations by German actors themselves: The oldest and biggest German encyclopaedia (
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You are all wrong -- I posted the 1959 year of birth at IMDb for
Nastassja Kinski for the very simple reason that I know it is correct. I used to work for the U.S. Immigration & Naturalization Service and like most of its employees I did look up the odd celebrity or such here and there (more than
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Supermodels have had items written about them and their ad campaigns for a very long time - having sourced some from the 1960's- and a kinski biography could hardly have been written without including something of the sort. But if we cannot find appropriate sourcing, we cannot use the image. "Proper
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Just wondering whether there has ever been a published biography of
Nastassja Kinski, or whether there is information on her to be gleaned from biographies of other people (Klaus Kinski, Polanski ect)? Otherwise all we have is magazine articles and interviews...and the dubious stuff which is forever
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One From the Heart detailsAlthough it wasn't added, to keep the film's relevance shorter, Coppola brought Kinski to the U.S. to co-star in this film (per
Phillips interviews, p. 136.) Hence, the film was important in her career. I felt some more details about what happened afterward, and why, would
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That does not matter at all for her descendance. In the whole Baltic area and some parts of
Eastern Europe down until SiebenbĂĽrgen, Romania a lot of ethnic/cultural Germans used to live up until the end of World War II and the Nazi Germany. With the now-free sovereign states, in the time before the
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employee (?) falls for a deliberate lie. It's quite likey that
Nastassja Kinski misstated her age when she came as underage girl to New York. Remember, she was a 16 years old teenager and she had a 44 years old lover, Mr. Polanski. Scandalous in the Puritan America (but ordinary in France). There's
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Can you clarify this issue? The first sentence in her "Career" section states that she began as a model. There was no source given. The photo is obviously of her modeling at a fairly young age. So when you say that the "specific image used needs to be discussed," how much more can be said? Doesn't
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is also questionable: the specific image used needs to be discussed in the text, cited to a third party source. As this is a correctable issue, I have not removed it as of now, but you may wish to quickly provide adequate context both in this article and at the image page to maintain it within the
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as his character's daughter. I just edited this article to add that info, then checked up on it and reversed my edit, because IMDB and other sources say that role was played by someone named
Cecilia Rivera. But is it possible that Cecilia Rivera was a pseudonym for Klaus's daughter, Nastassja, who
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I changed that line to simply German actress. Her father was half Polish but he spent his adult life in
Germany and is generally identified as a German actor. She herself would only be a quarter Polish and never spent any of her life in Poland. She is of largely German descent and speaks German as
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I wonder whether the film companies she has worked for have colluded in the mis-information about her age? If she was born in 1961 that makes her 15 when she did the nude scene in the Hammer Horror film 'To the Devil a Daughter' (available uncut on DVD in the UK). If the 1961 date was established
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The NY Mag reference briefly mentions NK and her modeling but not in any way the sufficiently meets the FAIR for including the pefume model photo. I would be looking for something like "kinski became a household name in the 80's through a series of sensual black and white advertisements promoting
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as 'erotic'? A lot of movies have some sexual content. If a movie's to be described as 'erotic', shouldn't it be a movie in which the sexual content is the main focus? Is there a citation- other than marketing material- that characterizes this film as 'erotic'? Calling a film 'erotic' usually has
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Would be great if there are other sources to quote to back up claims that 'she was one of the great beauties of the 1980s and 1990s'. I adore her work but for Wiki purposes we have to be able to give confidence to neutral readers that we have facts to back up assertions, especially subjective and
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It is really not worth the trouble to bother changing it back, but as far as I am concerned she was born in 1959. As far as "Puritan" USA, while I have my issues with that sort, I would rather be in America than in venal, treacherous France or World Wars starting, genocidal Germany or Nazi papist
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Dear Sir or Madam (Bogart99), I am not going to argue with you. When one applies for a visa one must provide accurate information or face penalties form the State Department. I know of no woman who would make herself older than she is (especially an actress!!), and I know that a birth certificate
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given here (1959) is the same as in imdb, but I doubt it. I also found it on the web as 1960, and 1961. I strongly remember when "Reifezeugnis" debuted on TV in 1977, Kinskis status as a minor was prominently mentioned (she was one of three well known (in Germany) second generation actors in the
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Although it wasn't added, to keep the film's relevance shorter, Coppola brought Kinski to the U.S. to co-star in this film (per Phillips interviews, p. 136.) Hence, the film was important in her career. I felt some more details about what happened afterward, and why, would give the subject more
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for Coppola's new studio, Zoetrope. "In the wake of the dismal showing at the box office, . . . after less than two years in operation, Zoetrope Studios was for sale." It became "one of the biggest box office failures in modern cinema history." For the film, Coppola had built one of the most
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Agree. But because there are published discrepancies, it wouldn't hurt to mention that fact in a general way. A lot of those were apparently just based on typical requotes from other secondary sources, especially magazines. Even some movie experts have made mistakes. For instance,
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It is unfair to inlcude this in Nastassja's page, as she has a tiny cameo in the film. If this was the standard rule for all of the actors involved in the film, I would understand; however, this is not listed in any of the leading actors wikipedia pages from this film.
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Traci Lords is a bad comparison, because she made pornographic movies. Nastassja Kinski did a nude scene. It's not the same thing at all, except in the perception of a few viewers. Commonly, a parental release is all that's necessary for a minor to do a nude scene.
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Hate to keep harping on a single theme, but the current version of the article doesn't include anything on the infamous snake poster, which is by far her main claim to fame in the United States of America among those who do not happen to be foreign film buffs...
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In the David Letterman interview (see Videos), when discussing her career, she talks about her modeling career and a photo shoot for Vogue Magazine (?) when she was 16. Another video link, the slideshow, displays numerous obvious modeling photos, such as the
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But that's SO uncool Phantom. I think we should all follow Leopard Head's example and get one of those clocks with hands that go backwards and then watch the anguished expression on our friends faces as they realize they are not in tune with the contemporary
760:. If you would invest 11,76 Euro (14 $ ) - as I did - you could profit from this strict Prussian registration law. The Berlin authorities have a copy of her birth certificate. The registry office doesn't give you this document of course but it tells you the
772:). As long as the Berlin or the Munich registry office doesn't communicate to you another version - which is quite impossible because it's not their custom to lie - 1961 is fixed. So don't damage Knowledge again (we can't prevent you from damaging IMDb) --
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Doubtful result. Even today, models' names are rarely mentioned with ads, unless they marry a celebrity. After they get into acting, it's simply mentioned as among their first jobs. So an early modeling photo seemed reasonable as a non-free "fair use."
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about this item in the German Knowledge. In 1995 the German cineast Hans-Michael Bock published his substantial encyclopaedia of international film actors . He researched minutiously all informations. Bock specifies January 24, 1961 as date of birth of
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I added a comment about it and it was removed. Again. What's going on here? How many references are needed? How many uploads of the image, reduced in size, blurry, etc. are required before it's existance is acknowleged and fact+fair use reigns?
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red for almost 9 years, in contrast to GĂĽnther Grass who witnessed how 51 officials of the Polish Post Office in the middle of Danzig town - equipped with pistols and light weapons - staunchly defended themselves for 14 hours against German
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is really explicit. A fair use magazine cover can not be used to illustrate generally the article on the person shown on it. If you add back the cover in violation of policy I will need to note this on the copyright problem notice board.
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which is the most reliable source for German journalists since 1913. Whoever invented 1959 in the IMDb, he or she created a vast confusion in the internet because a lot of frouzy people copied this date for their poorly researched pages.
922:: "KLAUS KINSKI, 34, Freistil -Rezitator (SPIEGEL-Titel 9/1961), wurde - in zweiter Ehe (mit der Berlinerin Ruth Tocki, 20) - Vater eines Mädchens, das den Namen Anastasia erhielt. Aus erster Ehe hat er eine neunjährige Tochter." --
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article says its a horror film, and apparently was shown in regular theaters. Did reviews of the movie written at that time refer to it as erotic though? The other film she is listed as staring in, which they call erotic is
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Språkføringen i den norske artikkelen omNastassja Kinski er svært dårlig, og bærer preg av en slurvete oversettelse. Er det virkelig en velutdannet nordmann som har skrevet den? Uansett, den bør omskrives til GODT norsk!
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It's faintly ridiculous that the article as it now stands includes nothing on the snake poster, which is by far her main claim to fame in the United States of America (among those who are not foreign film buffs).
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Yes, unfortunately this article has been plagued by officious persons (at least one of whom was a sockpuppet of a banned editor) who take it upon themselves to remove pictures of Nastassja - including the snake
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must be provided for a green card to be issued unless the person is some sort of third world asylee or refugee without access to the documents, and I assure you she did not enter the U.S. as a refugee or asylee.
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The 1959 birth date ref is only referenced by a blog run by a guy named Steve: "Steve's Pages: Birth and Death Dates, Quotes, Art, Photos, Travel, Writing" therefore I am deleting it as not a credible source.
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Actually, there are a few smaller secondary sources that give 1959, however, they are very brief 1-2 paragraph bios. The leading reference book set, only carried in libraries (if they can afford them) is the
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the text with an image say it? It's doubtful there was ever a published article about this particular photo shoot or photo. However, as a career document, it does prove certain bio details it would seem. --
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magazine in May 1982, and the writer of that story began, "I ask myself what makes Nastassia Kinski, at twenty-one, the biggest sex symbol of 1982 . . . ". That would also imply she was born in 1961. --
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presumption is right: The IMDb laid a false trail concerning Nastassja Kinski's year of birth. The internet confusion about her correct date of birth is tremendous and amazing. I wrote an extensive
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I would like to include it, but I was not able to find any free on-line third party sources talking about that ad campaign or her modeling in a way that would meet the FAIR rationale for use here.
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perished this very day. The one child had to write world literature afterwards and the other one had to become a world star as an actor. And both had to become very evil boys, all their lives. --
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1769:) is clear. Copyright images can only be used if there is adequate textual discussion directly related to the image. Merely placing the image next to the name of the film is not sufficient.
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If there is consensus, we might be able to restore it to the article. It's always useful to show a person during the prime of their career. The image is now orphaned and will be deleted.
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expensive movie sets in the history of Hollywood: "His glittering, surreal re-creation of neon Las Vegas alone cost more than $ 6 million," notes movie historian Gene D. Phillips. : -->
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Am restoring film promotional photo as a valuable improvement. It was removed under the pretext of being a "decoration," which was a purely personal impression by an editor. This is a
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reported her birth in early 1961 (see reference). This is certainly the most reliable source we have on this. So the matter should be closed, regardless of legal consequences.
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Birth date is 1961, as the reliable German magazine Der Spiegel anounced the birth of a daughter to the wellknown actor Klaus Kinski in its 12th edition of the year 1961
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would have been 10 years old during filming? She looks just like Nastassja Kinski as a child. Some websites do identify the actress as Nastassja Kinski. Very confusing.
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A few years ago, she drove a Nissan 200SX. I doubt a source will be found. Even if it is, it is hard to incorporate the information without looking silly or trivial.
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I always knew date of birth was 1961 (cannot the remember the sources, but at least two), and when jumped here I was surprised to see 1959. I definitely vote for 1961.
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Should be something on the famous snake poster -- that's how millions of U.S. college students in the 80's who were not foreign film buffs would have heard of her...
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I didnt save them, but when I was looking for modeling sources, I know that I ran across sources that mentioned Quincy Jones in a news.google.com archives search.
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shares his view for a long time. By the way: the IMDB's date of birth of her actor cousin Lara Naszinsky is also wrong. Nota bene: IMDb is not omniscient. --
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is a German-born actress of Polish descent<< its wrong, her father was born in Pommern, but it belongs to germany at that time! so no Polish descent
240:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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Therefore I think we can class any supposed 1959 birthdate as a fringe theory, which, in that respect, doesn't meet wikipedia standards of verification.
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Don't know. I've always thought that the work itself was its own reference. After all, someone can just go watch the film and see that she's in it.
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I'd say Nastassja Kinski walking around completely nude in the middle of the night is a pretty erotic thing. Not to mention tying her naked to a bed.
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Actually, it was director Paul Schrader who expressed the erotic aspect over the horror aspect saying that the film "contains more skin than blood".
1022:. His parents were native German citizens at the beginning of the 20th century. When Klaus Kinski was born in 1926 his place of birth, the glamourous
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On another point, for whatever it's worth, in the David Letterman interview (see Videos), she states that she was 16 when she met Roman Polanski. --
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products from Apples to Zylophones"{ref} Then we include the perfume ad as a visual example of what these sensual black and white ads looked like.
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The sense of that is so that things are created as a uniform standard, rather than being all over the place. Surely you could work that one out --
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another point, Mr. INS postman: there is no registration law in US right now which is as strict as in Prussia for 300 years, not even since
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Does Klaus mention anything about his daughter in his autobiography and in what year she was born??? Anybody here have his autobiography?
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and in the middle of the 1960s his then wife Ruth Brigitte Tocki shared his Roman years together with him and the common daughter, little
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most pbly) -- the year IS 1959!!! As far as IMDb not being omniscient this is absolutely true and I am worshipping no false idols here!!
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2056:(April, 1981), writes, "Indeed, at 20, Nastassia is being compared to the young Ingrid Bergman." That would mean she was born in 1961.
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Where does she know Russian from? What was her mother's decent? Isn't her name based on the names of two leading female characters from
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yes, I agree, saying she starred in 'erotic' movies sounds bizarre. Both the films mentioned are mainstream releases, not porn.
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Hmm - I just saw German Knowledge also gives 1961, while noting the differing sources. So I changed the article accordingly.
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to here; a split was unnecessary as the combined length of the pages is well within the usual bounds for readability.
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film). MSN Focus (in german) and www.djfl.de give 1960, www.film-und-literatur.de gives 1961, as does zelluloid.de .
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in the early morning hours of September 1, 1939, the other erotomanic dwarf, evil little Klaus Kinski, painted the
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Knowledge goes from oldest to newest. By the way, thanks for finding those articles that needed to be tagged. --
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her mother language. There is no justification for identifying her as a German-born actress of Polish descent.--
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I have removed some unsourced material about these two. Do we citations for when they were hooked up? TIA --
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1934:(1994) one of her modeling agents mentions her as a client, along with Anna Nicole Smith and Drew Barrymore.
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I would take your arguments more seriously if I didn't know that you are a sockpuppet of the notorious
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Film and television screen shots: For critical commentary and discussion of the cinema and television.
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was released, probably 14 when the nude scene was filmed. Of course, she began her relationship with
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on 15 October 2022. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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As the image is now orphaned, it will be deleted, unless any editors can expand on the rationale
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So doing things backwards is standard? What sort of Alice in Wonderland World do you live in???
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I would disagree with calling that "fringe", but have no real problem with the actual removal.
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reports on december 3, 2005 (issue 48/2005) this date as Nastassja Kinski's date of birth. The
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Don't forget it all belonged to Poland before the partitions of Poland in the XVIII century.
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Did you check whether the same year, 1959, isn't mentioned in other, more reliable sources?
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edit, and should require consensus with an acceptable rationale before repeated deletion. --
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The film failed at the box office, and was a major loss for Coppola's new studio, Zoetrope.
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Image file rationale was expanded to include more non-free content rules per suggestion. --
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She is painted on the back of Topps tavern in Sanger CA 93657 my question is how and why
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sub sections 4/7/8 "For critical commentary" and allow us to display the copyright image
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sub sections 4/7/8 "For critical commentary" and allow us to display this copyright image
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act as a "Felliniesque circus performer to represent the twinkling evanescence of Eros,
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I believe that the image below would be permitted as a non-free image based on rule #5,
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around the same time. The sexualization of underage girls was rampant in those years.
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Is it possible to remove the following statement from Nastassja Kinski's Knowledge?
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PLEASE REMOVE: The film failed at the box office, and was a major loss : -->
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Surely most pages list most recent films at top, and older further down? --
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Nastassja has a tiny cameo in this movie. The film cannot rest on : -->
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Even if a consensus formed here on this page for keep, it cannot overide
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User Debresser is right. She could have lied about her birth date on the
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OK, I feel stupid. I always thought that she played opposite her father
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Since when do we need references for the filmography, like in all of
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It was there, but I've added a bit to the reference to highlight it.
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had a very strange status concerning international law as a result of
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spiteful little devil Oskar Matzerath. When the 280-mm cannons of the
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1876:. Any comments there or consensus as to its value might help. --
747:
1959 is definetely wrong and 1961 is correct. The anonymous IMDb-
2400:
Nastassja's shoulders. She is in the move for 5 minutes!! : -->
813:
disqualifies itself. He (Robert?) seems to be a quite notorious
618:
So - is there an independent source for this birthday claim ?
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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List of awards and nominations received by Nastassja Kinski
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List of awards and nominations received by Nastassja Kinski
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Low-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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Rephrased: "Does the article commenatary, describing her
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Currently, seeing no critical commentary, my position is
862:
and Nastassja Kinski were casted for precocious roles. --
1470:
Nastassja Kinski is the highest paid model in history.
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Start-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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1972:
sourcing doesnt exist" is not a legitimate FAIR claim!
42:
28:
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Please let us know your thoughts and thank you!! : -->
2397:
Is it possible to make the following adjustment? : -->
850:
addiction came into vogue again (after the late 50s):
200:
1863:. Bzzt. I've removed it; do not restore it. Regards,
842:, although I wouldn't compare Nastassja Kinski with
567:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
481:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
768:) and the oldest German press information service (
734:Hi Robert! I didn't know you worked for the INS. -
1454:Speaking of filmography, where is Maria's Lovers?
1515:Why the description in the opening paragraph of
1177:The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz
73:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1399:I'm sure there are loads of other examples --
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8:
2377:now that I am looking at the right picture.
2307:. I suggest you rephrase your question as:
2267:as the film and this image is referred to:
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46:; for the discussion at that location, see
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2651:Knowledge level-5 vital articles in People
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1520:connotations quite different from what
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2701:Start-Class WikiProject Women articles
894:In fact, she would have been 15 when
703:Internationales Biographisches Archiv
411:the arts and entertainment work group
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2656:Start-Class vital articles in People
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561:This article is within the scope of
475:This article is within the scope of
360:This article is within the scope of
2706:All WikiProject Women-related pages
2626:Biography articles of living people
2207:New Biographical Dictionary of Film
838:I think you're on the right track,
641:. The biggest German encyclopaedia
300:It is of interest to the following
63:for discussing improvements to the
2646:Start-Class level-5 vital articles
2641:Knowledge vital articles in People
2351:Image:Large one from the heart.jpg
2315:Image:Large one from the heart.jpg
1042:. Since 1919 Danzig was a kind of
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1788:Knowledge image file catalogue.
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515:This article has been rated as
384:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
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1783:The use of the modeling photo
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1251:23:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
1237:16:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
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387:Template:WikiProject Biography
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2324:we have not met the threshold
1785:File:Natasha kinski model.jpg
1460:I have added information. --
1213:20:45, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
986:20:26, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
977:20:06, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
575:and see a list of open tasks.
495:Knowledge:WikiProject Germany
489:and see a list of open tasks.
408:This article is supported by
233:biographies of living persons
82:Put new text under old text.
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2686:Start-Class Germany articles
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2592:09:26, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
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963:21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
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846:. In the late 70s a certain
639:"la belle actrice allemande"
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1340:What's the sense of that???
1326:Filmography in wrong order?
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1194:10:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
1180:00:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
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1054:, inventing the erotomanic
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90:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
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897:To the Devil a Daughter
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1859:We're done here; see
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140:Neutral point of view
26:The contents of the
1734:Restoring film promo
1511:Cat People 'erotic'?
1095:Free State of Danzig
1014:Not even her father
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2005:May 23, 1994 p. 10
1036:Free City of Danzig
811:Rms125a@hotmail.com
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2598:Topps tavern mural
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1259:Snake poster again
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1540:—Preceding
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1040:World War I
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844:Traci Lords
799:216.194.4.2
789:216.194.4.2
751:and former
292:Start-class
188:free images
71:not a forum
43:its history
2620:Categories
2281:left|200px
1990:references
1767:WP:NFC#UUI
1759:WP:COPYVIO
1689:this site
1522:Cat People
1517:Cat People
1312:24.57.54.1
1187:User:Ste4k
1067:raked the
1026:spa Sopot/
1024:Baltic Sea
981:Way to go.
630:Hotwine8's
612:birth year
606:Birth date
32:page were
2581:complete.
2509:Debresser
2205:, in his
2170:Debresser
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1498:User F203
1401:leopheard
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1299:And again
1279:Yet again
1153:Debresser
1149:The Idiot
983:Vulturell
970:Vulturell
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673:Via Appia
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381:Biography
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290:is rated
249:libellous
128:if needed
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61:talk page
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96:get help
69:This is
67:article.
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1653:act in
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194:WPÂ refs
182:scholar
2579:Merger
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1246:one...
1093:. The
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953:Wikify
848:Lolita
298:scale.
166:Google
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1757:No
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