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the term "Grunge" over at the
Smashing Pumpkins article some time ago. I'm not sure if you're familar with that band so let me briefly explain. I am a huge smashing pumpkins fan, the band first gained mainstream exposur eint he early 90's the same time that the seattle grunge scene was exploding in popularity. The band never considered themselves grunge, and they weren't even from the same region or musical background as most grunge artists, however since their music had some stylistic similarities to several grunge bands, that's what they were initially labelled as. The band of course hated this, but that's how the public percieved them for a time. Eventually the grunge fad began to fade and the band became well enough known off their musical merrits that the label was dropped. So over at the SP page we had a dilemma do we label them as grunge or not? Most of the fans were against it however we couldn't ignore the fact that for a time the label was part of their public identity. We ended up coming to a compromise, rather than sticking grunge under the infobox we instead just mentioned the genre confusion in passing in the body of the article. I believe the same should be done to this article. I realize that a lot of, possibly most, long term emo fans might not consider NFG to be "true emo" but that is term which the larger public associated them, and if you'll excuse me for saying so it does seem a bit presemptious to think that if the band themselves label themself as emo on their official site, we shouldn't at least mention it somewhere in the article. Again I realize that this article must mean a lot to you and you're just trying to keep it as factually accurate as possible but this is a compromise that has worked for a lot of other bands' articles and I believe that it would be well-suited here.
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musical genre, it might be very different than it was a decade ago, but there's still lots of music being produced, marketed and recieved as emo, in fact I think it's quite anaologous to what has happened with punk in general. Is the punk that high schoolers gorwing up in the 80's and 90's knew dead? If you judge by the commercial music industry, then yes. Go to any high school and you'll find that punk has become much more of an image, clique or in the music industy, umbrella term for several niche alternative rock genres, than it once was. And yet there are literally dozens of groups still producing music that is being labeled and recieved as punk. The same thing, I believe, can be said for emo. Emo as far as anyone in the mid 90's knew it may be gone, but the same can be said for punk, ska, goth rock or a multitude of other subgenres, heck alternative rock in general doesn't exist as we once knew it and yet the label is still carried on to the new generation. The fact is that many bands are producing music they label as emo, the record labels then market and sell that music as emo and the fans and radio stations recieve it as emo. It might not be emo in the classical sense but that's what people recieve it as and that's what people now percieve emo to be. Yes, it's not the pure emo that the original fans grew up with, and it's become commercialized and cheapened like most everything else and that sucks for the orignal fans, but the bottom line is it has adapted to the times just like any other subgenre. Anyway that's just how I see the current situation.
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a particular genre doesn't necessarily make it true (for example
Twisted Sister might deny the fact that they're a Hair Band even though many people consider them to be one). Curiously, New Found Glory actually used to list Emo as one of their genres on their MySpace page (probably around 2005-2006) although that is no longer the case. However, in regards to wikipedia the important thing is that we report multiple viewpoints. There are verifiable sources to support the fact that some people consider them to be Emo, just like there are verifiable sources to support that others consider them to be Pop Punk. As a result both genres are listed.
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732:. And I really don't like the seperate articles for the band members. I think the little information they provide might be better suited in more detailed subsections of the "Members" section on the NFG article page. They would have to be completely re-written, as most of them are POV, unreferenced and contain sentences like "Pundik also possesses one of the most unique voices among all other pop-punk vocalists in the US." (from the
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influencing the band that is influencing the first said band. basically what I'm saying is genres aren't about influence it's about the music your playing it's classiflying and categorizing the current style of music cause if you put your influences genres in your genre then you might have a really long list of genres heading all the back to pretty much classical music. I vote take out
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718:" one but the only other one that I feel needs creation is "My Friends Over You". Maybe a category for New Found Glory albums? I don't think that "The Story So Far" DVD warrants an article, if somebody feels differently go for it. But anyways, if anybody's got some good suggestions, post them, there surprisingly is not a lot of discussion on this band.
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Also, it wasn't a logo but rather just a stylization of the band's name from one of their albums. NFG has no logo; their name appears in different stylizations on every album and no design is used consistently enough to be called a logo. Bad
Religion and Pennywise, for example, have logos...NFG does not. --
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The problem is that since the term Emo now carries negative connotations in some circles, many bands are claiming they're not part of the genre, even though they clearly fit most current definitions of the term. I'm not saying New Found Glory is one of these, but just because a band says they aren't
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All I know is that NFG was sick of being compared by media with emo bands and being called emo. So the made
Catalyst, and the song Intro, in which they say "Don't believe a word they say". IMHO, these sources about genres mean nothing. It's too subjective, and I think if the majority of real fans say
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I think the members' seperate articles have been tagged "merge into New Found Glory" long enough (a
Grushka article doesn't even exist) and there were mostly no opposing arguments against a move. I still don't think what little information is there on each member warrants an article on its own, so a
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profile is not always a correct classification of a band's genre. For an artists it is very hard to label one's own music, because it is impossible to look at it objectively. Also, I have never said my opinion is better than the one of a so-called professional in any way. I am not the one who listed
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I've added Emo to the band's list of genres. I realize that this may be seen as a controversial move by some. However the only evidence provided this page to prove that their not emo has been personal opinion, whereas I have included several reliable sources to back up my statement. Since
Knowledge
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I reduced the "members" section down to a a list, as it was absolutely full of extraneous detail on each member. If the person is notable enough outside the band, then there should be a separate article about them with these details. A complete bio of each member within an article about the band is
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They are labeled emo by various (so-called professional) sources, yes. But the term is tossed around way too haphazardly nowadays, and attached to a very broad spectrum of bands (some of which have very little in common besides maybe their fanbase). It has become more of a description for a "scene"
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However that's really not my main intent on posting here, my real concern is the debate on whether or not New Found Glory is emo. I realize that you're a very passionate fan and you're just trying to protect the band's artistic integrity but the thing is we went through this exact same debate with
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I do. Shouldn't members be listed, not set in their own boxes? Jeez, it's like I'm looking at a band's "Members" page on their website. The wording is nice, but shouldn't paragraphs be, you know, in their own articles, or you know, merged into the article? This is probably the only page I see with
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I know you didn't say that everyone is influenced by classical music, I said that because you said that genres are about influence but ever type of music dates back to classical. So, technically everyone is influenced by classical music (like it or not they are.) We could date it back even further
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I also took the "logo" out of the infobox. First of all, logos are not appropriate in infoboxes; if it was notable enough then it should be in a separate image box within the article, with a discussion of its significance. If there's no discussion of the logo, then it too fails fair use criteria.
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Wow, I really don't know how you got all that from what I wrote earlier. Where exactly did I say that every band should be labelled "classical music"? Whatever, if the melodic hardcore label is taken out, it should at least be mentioned that they are hardcore-influenced, because it shows in their
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Just a couple of things to clear up first ā I'd like to keep this as civil as possible, so please excuse me if I sound too much like a smartass, I really don't mean to. Please let me know if you disagree with me on any of this. I've said it often and I'll gladly say it again: What a band (or the
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The sources in question are all used in mutliple wikipedia articles and are generally accepted as relaible sources. Although some people don't like
Allmusic for varrying reasons, they're actually specifically recomended on the main page of WP:Music. Sure, the references are the opinions of some
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HarryCane, I found your comment about emo as a genre not existing anymore very interesting. I agree with you on several fronts, emo has become a very scene oriented medium and the term is being thrown around very haphazerdly these days. However I think it's premature to say that it's died as a
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Anyway, back to the topic. Please keep in mind that genres do not only apply to one or two bands. If you look at other bands on that list, not all of them have the exact same sound. It is not uncommon that two bands affiliated to the same musical style or genre sound nothing alike, yet they are
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was the last band to be considered emo when the genre died down, they changed their style and every band that sounded similar to their new 'alienated' form of emo was automatically, and most importantly, incorrectly labelled "emo" ā a common mistake made by many "so-called professional" music
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if you go by influence everyone is influenced by a band who was influenced by another band who was influenced by another band so then wouldn't the genre of every band be the same cause if you going by influence you have to include the enfluence of the other bands cause they technically are
679:"Stefanie Reines of Drive-Thru Records heard the album from the band Midtown and later re-released the album in 1999" Could someone please rewrite that sentance to be less confusing. Did the band Midtown pass a copy of NFG's album on to Stefanie? Or what else was it that happened?
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only mentions "hardcore" in a user-reply to a review --it is not even mentioned in the actual review. Even if you are to assume that this user-comment is credible, it only states that "NFG is, at heart, a pop punk band with a good deal of hardcore influences," not a hardcore
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Actually, it wasn't. It was a bonus track in Japan and the UK, but it was not on the original release. Also, I know that there is an error in the CDDB that lists "I'd Kill to Fall Asleep" as "Constant Static" when imported into iTunes, so that may have confused you.
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Well, they are definitely (melodic) hardcore-influenced, and simply labelling them "pop" instead of "rock" is a little general (and above all, incorrect). Maybe not on their most recent work, but most definitely on anything prior to that. Please look into the
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article, which very well applies to New Found Glory. Lastly, please only change such things as genre and musical styles if you can provide sources stating that the band is not harcore-influenced, but power pop-influenced (which should be impossible), per
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Your right, they don't support the fact that they are hardcore. This is because I originally used the references to back up their being called emo, which all four references support, but another user vandalised the page to list them as hardcore instead.
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I also think the article needs more substance in general, as it's basically nothing more than a rundown of chart positions of their albums. I will have some free time on my hands in the coming weeks, so I might do a little work on the article.
864:, to take away a little emphasis from the melodic hardcore-part. Here's a good quote from Chad concerning this (I am aware that it stands in direct contrast to what I wrote about a band not being able to classify their own music properly):
1168:. I'm going to do my best and reference what's there, and I'd love it if we could somehow get a license-free headshot of each member (preferrably cropped from one photograph) to accompany their subsection. Let me know what you think. --
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Genres are all about influences. They're about shared patterns, rhythms, sounds, influences and chord progressions with other acts. If it wasn't, we would need a single genre for each and every band, because two bands will never sound
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it says they are labeled as emo and pop-punk. As far as I'm concerned, I think an official website promoted by the band is concerned more appropriate than your opinion. This definitely needs further discussion, so please reply back.
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I have created an article for my friends over you, mainly because this is their breakthrough song, at least onto the commercial scene, feel free to add or takeaway as long as it improves the article01:31, 21 August 2006
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tagged the same solely for their shared roots and influences (or other factors that amount to a certain classification). In the case of New Found Glory, they have often stated that they were largely influenced by local
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I think we have too little info to create individual articles and even a separeted article with everyone. IMO, the info should be be put in the band's article as it was until IllaZilla remove the content on 8 January
1427:. The second source states "the rock/punk/pop (otherwise known as āemoā)" which is not correct. And it's clear that the mention of "emo" on the Rolling Stone article was not to be taken literaly. We should call NFG
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889:) and it is often used with negative connotations. The original, musical form of emo (the basis for the term) has little to do with New Found Glory's music, despite being another sub-genre of hardcore punk. --
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because the band is definitely the farthest thing from it. They have soft melodies, and sing extremely high-pitched. If you want to hear
Melodic Hardcore try looking up some bands that are mentioned on the
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I don't think any of those sources are reliable. Allmusic always call nu metal and metalcore bands "alternative metal" or "punk metal" and pop punk as "emo", which is wrong, and this has been discussed
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in the genres, so please don't try and make it look like I'm forcing my opinion on anybody. Sorry if that wasn't your intention, but people tend to attack me because I express my opinion in these genre
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it's melodic hard core, or punk rock, then they are melodic hc and punk rock. Period. Moreover, if even the band do not consider themselves emo (what they say on Intro), they are definitely not emo!
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Isn't 1 of their genres 'Emo' or something? Another genre debate.. but I gotta know. I mean, I was told they're Emo, and they even appeared on MTV2 on "So Emo-Tional"... Just need to know.. -Dor
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article as they are a hell of a lot more melodic hardcore than they are power pop. Also, take in consideration the introduction of the section "List of melodic hardcore bands" in the
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How are to you say that your opinion is better than a "so called professional"? "Melodic hardcore" does not sound like the correct genre because when I look in the bands section of
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journalists and writers but really that's what all sources boil down to and they reflect the opinions of a larger group (although there are clearly many who disagree with them).
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that, and it just looks like people are trying too hard for this article to look good rather than be informative. It looks really nice, but
Knowledge isn't for looking nice.
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Even with all that, they can still be emo. I'm not saying they are (because I don't care), but what you said does not rule it out. And I disagree that the genre is dead. --
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The
Assocaiated Acts NEED to include Paramore. They have toured with paramore before, which in turn sparked the realationship with Hayley Williams and Chad Gilbert.
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Because of the aforementioned reasons, I am removing the hardcore genre from the infobox. Please comment here or on my talk page if you disagree with my rationale.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20121012095958/http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/new_found_glory_guitarist_i_see_coming_home_as_our_first_record.html
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There's a mistake in the linking- Chicago Alderman Joe Moreno redirects to this page as a "former member" if you click on his name from the Chicago Aldermen page.
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1630:"On March 18, 2008, a compilation named Hits was released. Two previously unreleased songs, "Situations" and "Constant Static," are also featured on the album"
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Does anybody have any suggestions as to what is necessary for this article as well as New Found Glory-related articles. The singles chart has been added, the "
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https://web.archive.org/20090121214143/http://ampmagazine.com:80/index.php/interviews/comments/new_found_glory_shares_insight_on_their_new_upcoming_2009_album
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I think I may remove the fourth "emo" reference, since it is written by an amateur reviewer. Message me on my talk page if you have a problem with this.
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completely unnecessary. Also, the individual promotional pictures of the members do not meet Knowledge's criteria for inclusion under fair use guidelines.
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Alright I agree that they have some hardcore influence BUT since when does a band's genre come from what they're influenced by? If a band is influenced by
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Hardcore should not be listed as a genre in the New Found Glory infobox. The 4 references used to justify this genre, do not even call NFG hardcore:
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does that put them in the classical genre? I don't think so, so why would the fact that a band is influenced by hardcore music doesn't set thim in the
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937:. As much as it seems some of you would like this band to be hardcore and all that, they are not. Please just accept they are nothing more than a
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Can we please stop putting James down for a current member? The band already announced that he is not part of the band anymore. New Found Glory
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The band has gone back to Drive-Thru Records according to their website. Maybe this change should be made to the professional career section.
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1228:'My friends over you' was the last video ever played on Much Music before it changed its name to Fuse. We should add that to there somewhere.
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2318:- should just be merged into NFG's history section for this timeframe. Doesn't appear any if their releases are actually notable either.
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Could they simply be added as a pop punk band in the lead, it is what they are most known for. If not pop punk could punk rock be added?
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is an online forum. Firstly, it is not a reliable, third-party source. And, secondly, it never even states that NFG is a hardcore band.
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The statement is backed up by reliable third party sources, it's unfortanute that it happenes to disagree with your personal opinion.
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Ian Grushka is the head bassist for New Found Glory. Often plays with his shirt off. Appeared on MTV Cribs on numerous occasions.
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Lastly, emo (as I already stated) is more of a term used for a scene, rather than a musical genre. If you like, you can read the
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You didn't diectly, but what you did say is that genres are influence and everyone is influenced by classical music.
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states that "elsewhere, the group careens between hardcore punk, synth-rock and emo-tinged ballads" on their album
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http://media.www.digmagonline.com/media/storage/paper1159/news/2009/04/10/CoverStory/New-Found.Glory-3706766.shtml
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120304154816/http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/6199/Madden-NFL-2005-Soundtrack-Revealed/
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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1529:. It does not call the band or the album "hardcore." That is the only mention of hardcore in this reference.
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I didn't say that (that everyone is influenced by classical music). And I certainly don't believe that. --
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rather than a musical genre. NFG's music, however, is hardly to be considered emo-influenced, but largely
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and nobody else. I see very slim-- if any-- significant reliable coverage independent from NFG coverage.
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music (except for maybe on their latest effort) that their roots lie within the hardcore genre. --
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journalists, who IMO should know better. Nowadays, "emo" has become more of an insult (as in
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so basically you're telling me that every band in the world should be put in the same genre
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cause it doens't belong with New Found Glory they're a Pop Punk/Rock band and nothing more.
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Might also want to add that Steve Klein is married and has a daughter named Presley Rae.
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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
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merge would in my opinion be appropriate. I put a little temp page together at
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1976:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
1836:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090328125643/http://www.bridge9.com/article/250
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868:"We have the energy of a hardcore band, but it's a little bit more melodic."
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http://pickrset.com/musicnews/1441/exclusive+mark+hoppus+pickrset+interview
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These guys are totally emo, not remotely hardcore. Let's get this fixed.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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but a short-lived parody side-project consisting of all the members of
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http://www.kerrang.com/blog/2010/02/new_found_glory_to_headline_sl.html
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http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/6199/Madden-NFL-2005-Soundtrack-Revealed/
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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band and stop changing their genre. leave it the way it is. Thank you.
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label intern that runs the respective site) writes on their homepage/
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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http://www.kerrang.com/wheretostartwith/artists/new_found_glory
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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wikipedia page, youāll notice they sound nothing at all like
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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bands (which is fairly obvious given Chad's previous band
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http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?table=SEARCH
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article on the whole history ā the gist however is that
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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If you look some older pages of NFG's article, such as
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1633:"Constant Static" was actually on the Catalyst album.
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2203:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1980:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1840:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1439:if that source is reliable (which is not, again)--
561:, a project which is currently considered to be
73:for general discussion of the article's subject.
2189:This message was posted before February 2018.
1966:This message was posted before February 2018.
1826:This message was posted before February 2018.
793:-influenced, hence the genres on this page. --
2393:Mid-importance biography (musicians) articles
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2264:International Superheroes of Hardcore
1329:, you find info about every member.--
1259:S. Luke 20:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
29:International Superheroes of Hardcore
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1178:No one's got an opinion on this?`--
289:It is of interest to the following
63:for discussing improvements to the
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2069:. Please take a moment to review
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478:and see a list of open tasks.
397:This article is supported by
233:biographies of living persons
82:Put new text under old text.
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2062:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1901:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1763:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1968:After February 2018
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1670:āPreceding
1384:āPreceding
1239:Everelusive
1133:Ellioteaton
1125:Everelusive
878:Emo (music)
728:There is a
188:free images
71:not a forum
43:its history
2372:Categories
2278:supergroup
2252:Report bug
2029:Report bug
1708:Bweather04
1437:synth rock
1307:I created
852:Shai Hulud
830:PureVolume
570:Punk music
533:Punk music
32:page were
2351:complete.
2276:is not a
2235:this tool
2228:this tool
2125:dead link
2012:this tool
2005:this tool
1878:Cheers. ā
1872:this tool
1865:this tool
1583:Aurum ore
1527:Catalyst
1500:Aurum ore
1484:ChancerBR
1464:Aurum ore
1406:Aurum ore
1370:Aurum ore
1331:ChancerBR
1290:IllaZilla
1270:IllaZilla
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1180:HarryCane
1170:HarryCane
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1013:HarryCane
980:HarryCane
967:power pop
891:HarryCane
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791:punk rock
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720:Sharpdust
700:Sharpdust
481:Pop music
472:pop music
428:Pop music
370:Biography
315:Musicians
310:Biography
249:libellous
128:if needed
111:Be polite
61:talk page
2241:Cheers.ā
2018:Cheers.ā
1778:cbignore
1748:contribs
1736:unsigned
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777:contribs
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564:inactive
538:inactive
96:get help
69:This is
67:article.
2355:Joyous!
2316:Support
2304:Joyous!
2300:Support
2129:tag to
2071:my edit
1910:my edit
1888::Online
1817:checked
1772:my edit
1651:Contrib
1641:Rwiggum
1441:Kmaster
1350:Pwnage8
1211:2008.--
1154:Titch31
1147:Singles
1022:because
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660:before.
508:on the
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751:Genre
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209:JSTOR
170:books
124:Seek
36:into
2308:Talk
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2039:Lead
1821:true
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