Talk:New Zealand national rugby union team/Archive 3

1092:(and Tests since 1903). Their Test record is probably more important then anything else, and if you look at things like Lions and Grand Slams, their record is pretty amazing. As well, many of the All Blacks most famous losses have been mentioned in the article, and that is certainly not POV; vs Wales in 1905, South Africa, France, and Australia in the RWC, England's win in 1935, the series loss to SA in 1937 and 1949, their series loss to the Lions in 1971, to Munster in 78, not to mention the unflattering history of the 81 tour and the Cavaliers. I don't think it is POV, losses are mentioned as well as win's. - 107:

as winning the Rugby World Cup in 1987 they have been Tri Nations champions seven times (in the 11 year history of the tournament) and have twice (in 1978 and in 2005) completed a Grand Slam (wins over England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland) tour of the Home nations. They are also current holders of the Bledisloe Cup, contested annually against Australia. They are currently the number-one ranked team in the world.They are also the 2006 International Rugby Board (IRB) Team of the Year.

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world cup, it qualifies the defeat to SA in 1995 with "controversy surrounds the final with many suspecting the All Blacks were poisoned". I had never heard that allegation before (and a pretty serious allegation it is as well), and was slightly less than impressed to link to a "blog" as the sole supporting authority. I have huge respect for the Kiwi international rugby team, but this article perhaps hasn't been fully edited in the best traditions of Knowledge balance.

31: 286: 1471:), and (b) "All Blacks" is the official name of the team, trademarked by the New Zealand Rugby Union. The only reason we would name the article anything else is to achieve consistency of Knowledge article names, which, while a desirable outcome when possible, is not the primary goal of our Naming Conventions policy. -- 638: 1545:

Yes, I wasn't questioning that Lardelli was the composer, that's indisputable (I think!). And the views attributed to him in the quote may well be accurate; it's just that they're not mentioned in that particular article, which means the quote is unsourced. I should also mention that, before I edited

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I've removed this image, once again, from the article. It's claimed there is a "very good" fair use rationale. There isn't. There is a fair use rationale, but it does not in any way describe how it contributes significantly to this article, it just states "adds significantly to the article", not even

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I agree with most of that however I don't think there is too much of an emphasis on current holders of what etc. The fact that they are IRB team of the year is very important, as is their rank and the fact that they hold the Bledisloe Cup. You may want to do the rewrite yourself Cvene64 as you have a

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All Blacks is the name of New Zealand's national rugby union team. Rugby union is New Zealand's national sport and hence All Blacks selection is considered a high honour. The All Blacks are a formidable power in international rugby union, possessing a winning record against all rugby nations. As well

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Their name dates from the first tour of the United Kingdom by a New Zealand national rugby team, the Originals, in 1905–1906. According to Billy Wallace, one of the members of the Originals, a London newspaper said the New Zealanders played as if they were "all backs". Wallace claimed that due to a

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If people start trying to move the page then you are definitely right that we should add a comment. However that edit war ended some time ago, and now that the article is FA, and a bit more stable, it probably won't happen again. If it does then someone should add the comment, but someone who would

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it does not have to be updated after each test, (in the French versin) it is completed by a list of other players who recently played test matchs (in november). A team is more than 15 players anyway, for example Piri Weepu is in the added list. As you have seen there are links for each players, so

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There have only been five world cups so only having won once is not a big deal. That puts them on a par with South Africa and England and behind only Australia. In any case New Zealand have consistantly been either the best or the second best team (South Africa being the best though the All Blacks

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I have a couple of problems with this. One is that it will need to be updated after every test. The next is that it doesn't give any information about their position and province. For non Rugby fans knowing the number will not be enough, having a wiki-link to their position gives them something to

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Yes I think any New Zealander will certainly remember Suzie in 1995! As for World Cups, they are the only team to have qualified for every single semi-final. The problem with judging them simply by World cup success is that the World Cup only started in 1987, and they have been playing since 1884

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Bad manner to criticise a FA on the day that it is featured, but a smidge POV to my eyes. The opening paragraph regaling All Black success completely glosses over the fact that they have only ever won a single world cup (and that was on home soil). By the time the article does get around to the

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The whole problem is because Scotland have those CCC panel things that are supposed to make them run faster, and the All Blacks had black panels on their shirts for some stupid reason. If Scotland had worn Blue and the All Blacks grey there would have been no problem but they both tried to be too

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item #10(c). I did not remove this image without thought. Further, the image contributes virtually nothing to the article. The article spends just two sentences on the '87 cup, makes no mention of David Kirk's contribution, or any significance of any kind to him in particular holding the cup. We

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I've made a few copy-edits in this section, but I think it needs more work. The quote attributed to Derek Lardelli appears nowhere in the referenced article and a couple of the other references are dead links. Also, saying that the final gesture "has been interpreted as" a throat-slitting is, I

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Why is this article called "All Blacks"? Every other national rugby union team follows the same pattern, as does every other national football team, rugby league team, cricket team, etc., so why should the New Zealand national rugby union team be any different. I think I should submit this to

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Really? I thought it was well balanced ... and must have been to have been reviewed and promoted to an FA. World Cup or no World Cup they are the most successful international rugby team in the world - why not include that initially? Maybe the world cup was neglected and their winning record

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I'm not sure what their current away strip is, but they have definitely worn a white, or off-white strip before. They do this when they are the away team against a country with very dark jerseys. This has happened against Scotland (when Scotland wore dark blue) before I think. -

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Actually they were playing as the away team because they won the toss (the home team wears their alternative strip in international rugby, shouldn't really call it an away strip). I must say that it wasn't always easy to distinguish the shirts, both teams are guilty though. -

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I understand the All Blacks have several members born outside New Zealand but are the flags really nessecary in the squad section? It is a national team after all and everyone in the team has some kinda Allegiance to NZ. Also I doubt Jerry Collins and Joe Rokococo aren't NZ

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Well there we go, All Blacks played their away kit vs Scottland...and what a mess up that was...would of been much clearer if they kept wearing Black. It was described by one commontator as Silver, which is a more appropriate colour for them then grey or white.

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game. The teams should never have been allowed to take the field in those colours. Organisers must have been too busy counting the gate takings, and the ref was probably too frightend to make waves and jeopardise his chance of a finals adjudication. Sucks.

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I checked it and added a reference. Also changed Autumn internations to November Tests as it's Spring in NZ when they take place (I think calling them the Autumn internationals is a bad idea on wikipedia). Good work for adding them though. -

1156:. I will start recording this within the next few days - possibly as early as this weekend if I have time. I may need to post requests for pronunciation help with some of the players' names here, so please help where you can! Thanks. 1188:

At the time there were statements made that two tests against France, one against Wales and one against England were the equivalent or harder than a Grand Slam. The French tests however do not count towards a Grand Slam as was implied.

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The statement that the All Blacks achieved a Grand Slam in 2006 has been removed as it is incorrect. They did not play Ireland or Scotland in the 2006 end of year tests (although they did play Ireland earlier in the year).

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The lead should be capable of standing alone as a concise overview of the article, establishing context, explaining why the subject is interesting or notable, and describing its notable controversies, if there are

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as New Zealand's national sport". As a New Zealander, I can verify that rugby is definitely rammed down our throats more than any other sport, but I'm not sure that it is our 'official' sport.

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There has been numerous occasions where New Zealand has used white instead of black due to the clash. NZ are yet to play in the grey kit, as they haven't played Scotland since its inception.--

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typographical error, subsequent references were to "All Blacks". This is likely myth however, as the name also describes their playing uniform of black shirts, shorts and socks. Block quote

1611:. Describes the game as "a UNICEF charity match", but certainly talks it up as the All Blacks playing a warm-up game en-route to their tour of France and Italy. Oh, and another mention: 1644:

Generally all matches, including matches against clubs, Barbarians etc are listed on the site. It's very strange it's not there. It would be good to find an official record of it. -

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Should this article mention that several African countries boycotted the 1976 Olympic Games because the All Blacks played against South Africa? And more on the 1981 Springbok Tour.

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This article has a lot of potential : congratulations to be a featured article... We try to make some featured articles in fr.wikipedia and we like your article. And we expect that

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In the infobox there is a kit with grey shirts and grey socks. Have the All Blacks actually ever worn that kind of kit in a match? I don't see anything mentioned in the article. --

585:. Which is linked in the article. Also, much of the 81 Tour stuff isn't just about the All Blacks, but also the provincial games (which falls outside the scope of this article). - 1135:

item #8 "It needs to significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic in a way that words alone cannot". I'm sorry, but the use of this image simply isn't compliant. --

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Well two simple reasons: (a) "All Blacks" is name that "the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity" (as per

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Considering NZ only need to change strip when they play Scotland (AFAIK), you'd have thought that this would be an important consideration when chosing their change strip.

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The article is semi-protected now I think. It's been getting vandalised a lot, mainly by anon users. Regular contributors please be on the look out for this. Thanks. -

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all information about the provinces ... can be found easily and are updated. Up to you, you could have both the present table and a typical team for test matchs.

820:) who didn't insist that Scotland wear their home jersey before they took the field because it was clear their would be confusion (and they were playing a 577:

The problem with mentioning that is that this is really only an overview of All Blacks history. At some point, when I get time, I'll created the article

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I think a note needs to be put at the top of this page explaining why this article is called All Blacks and not New Zealand national rugby union team.

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How could anyone get a "play by Jean Genet, see The Blacks (play)" mixed up with 'All Blacks'? They're called totally different things. Why not put

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section but was briefly placed outside that section. I don't know which template it was, but it would have been a mistake rather than vandalism.-

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Heh, you may not have heard of the infamous "Suzie" poisoning the All Blacks, but it is indeed one of the most famous allegations in rugby. See

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it's not a company, but a organisation. no one profits. The NZ Rugby Union is the technical 'owner', but it is a not for profit organisation

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It certainly is unusual, given some of the minor matches which do have full details at allblacks.com. Might be worth an email to them? --

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already know that from the two sentences. I.e., the image is purely decorative showing that they won the '87 cup. Thus, the image fails

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It would be a {{documentation}} template at the end of one of the included templates, which was supposed to be in a <noinclude: -->

1079: 581:. When that is created we can go into a lot more detail. There is a lot more info on both the 1976 Olympic Boycott and the 81 Tour in 159:

Second could be an overview of All Blacks-specific notable information...They wear all black, the performance of the haka, the name...

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Both those things are correct. The new haka was definitely composed by Derek Lardelli, I'll try and find a link that's not dead. -

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Can anyone figure out how to removed the documentation things at the bottom of the article? I have no idea where they came from. -

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The relative weight given to points in the lead should reflect the relative weight given to each in the remainder of the article.

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I've made alterations as per your suggestions. Could people please take a look at the Lead and give me some feedback. Thanks. -

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It's the unofficial national sport but it would be silly to say it's not. If it isn't then what is? Netball, soccer, league? -

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I had already read that. The problem was the ABs had nothing to change into. That farcical situation should never have arisen.

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relative weight given to points in the lead should reflect the relative weight given to each in the remainder of the article

1010:)" meening he was 20 years old 2 days before 1996 started and not teenage. Maybe a bit picky I know but it is incorrect. 887: 1468: 1204: 443: 1054: 530: 1490:

A discussion has been started about the breadth and formatting of succession boxes for national rugby union teams at

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In the lead try to have a sentence, clause, or at least a word devoted to each of the main headlines in the article.

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couldn't play non-whites in the Republic) up to that date. So it's very reasonable to call NZ one of the top sides.

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First paragraph could be a general introduction (NZ national team, played since 1903, what they compete in etc etc)

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I'm not sure what you're talking about. If it's still there, could you explain in a bit more detail what you see.-

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national sport? If so, this should have a citation. Otherwise, perhaps it would be better to say, "Rugby union is

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I think it's a waste of time, and more importantly space. The article takes long enough to load up as it is (see

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it, the quote had no closing quote mark: I think it should be where I placed it but I could be wrong. -

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Yeah I knew it was something like that. Didn't think it was vandalism (that was a separate issue). -

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needs to be applied to the section on the name in the lead. Most of that info should be written in

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move a page without posting a question at the talk page is likely to ignore the comment anyway! -

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Is it something you are interested in for the english version, I did it for the french version.

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for numerous mentions of the (never proven) claim, from news outlets all over the world. --

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Third could be why the are notable (winning record, ranking, hown many hall of famers etc)

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A significant argument not mentioned after the lead should not be mentioned in the lead.

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Could someone explains who owns this company, and how much profit they make from it?

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I'm not really seeing any reasons there that make me want to change my mind, tbh. –

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Someone might want to check its suitable and correct before it gets crossed off..

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accentuated but the article paints a fair picture. and yep they got poisoned ...

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I have submitted All Blacks for FAC. You can read comments (and respond to them)

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I think we need to get the lead sorted out first, it currently reads like this:

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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Is rugby union really New Zealand's national sport? Is it New Zealand's

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The All Black are the current holders of this, this, winners of this etc

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as well? I think it should either be removed or at least changed to a

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They asked the ABs to change into their black strip at half time, see

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the All Blacks didn't play in Japan in 2000. I don't think the image

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I see this is now a featured article in four languages, and it's the

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http://www.rugby.com.au/news/all_blacks_poisoning_cover-up,9418.html

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It's something people need to know. So they don't try to change it.

717:) so why make it worse with redundant images? Remove them I say. - 1221: 1594:

or a New Zealand XV? Doesn't anyone know anything about this? -

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Also, there should not be such an emphasis on current events...

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The section needs to be at least three paragraphs in my opinion

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Yeah it's fixed now. I found another ref with that quote. -

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I agree it doesn't seem to be necessary to have this link.-

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Narration uploaded and linked today - see the link above.

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WHICH article. This is not in compliance with policy (see

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It was the All Blacks. I was there and took the photo. --

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Deleted a bit from "....in 1996, but went with the then

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Other players can also be mentionned below the figure.

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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Rugby union#Succession boxes

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game via winning the toss). Professional my armpit.

1583:From what I've been able to discover, according to 537:. So, you can very proud about your contributions. 1184:http://stats.allblacks.com/tourbreak.asp?IDID=167 1442:Talk:All Blacks/Archive 1#Naming of this article 1388:). Would imagine the request will be accepted. 932:"Rugby union is New Zealand's national sport" 8: 677:Thanks for pointing it out. I've fixed it.- 527:fr:Équipe de Nouvelle-Zélande de rugby à XV 207:good idea of how this should be written. - 179:All_Blacks#International_competition_begins 18:Talk:New Zealand national rugby union team 1275:on the africaans language site! Nice. - 1517:think, more NPOV than "appears to be". 1401:Its been semi-protected for two weeks. 1384:I've just applied for semi-protection ( 251:I've added the current squad section.. 1588:Image:All blacks at chichibunomiya.jpg 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 7: 1080:this Google for "Suzie" "All Blacks" 872:Maybe. But this is supposed to be a 760:I remember the game, NZ wore white. 1590:is the All Blacks, maybe it's the 966:The phrase you're looking for is " 24: 1608:Here is a news article about it: 1267:Foreign language featured article 1177:2006 Grand Slam statement removed 193:What does everyone else think..? 1250:Fixed. Created a disamb page at 284: 29: 1494:. Please see the discussion at 1338:It's gone now. Very strange. - 531:fr:Coupe du monde de rugby à XV 145:It could be broken up like this 1440:See the earlier discussion at 1284:06:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 1259:02:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC) 1246:00:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC) 1154:spoken version of this article 927: 910:01:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 899:01:19, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 882:00:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 866:00:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC) 852:13:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC) 843:10:57, 24 September 2007 (UTC) 829:08:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC) 792:07:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC) 667:Reference number 90 is blank. 496:Nominated for Featured Article 1: 1507:22:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC) 994:Tiger Woods instead." as the 529:will have the same result as 237:04:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC) 216:10:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC) 198:03:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC) 1675:10:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC) 1653:06:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC) 1640:05:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC) 1624:04:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC) 1603:04:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC) 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1449: 1443: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1433: 1430: 1426: 1418:Article title 1417: 1411: 1408: 1404: 1400: 1399: 1398: 1395: 1391: 1387: 1383: 1373: 1370: 1368: 1362: 1361: 1360: 1357: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1345: 1343: 1337: 1336: 1334: 1330: 1325: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1314: 1312: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1303: 1300: 1298: 1288: 1286: 1285: 1282: 1280: 1274: 1266: 1260: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1248: 1247: 1244: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1231: 1227: 1223: 1219: 1211: 1209: 1206: 1202: 1198: 1194: 1186: 1185: 1176: 1172: 1169: 1165: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1159: 1155: 1151: 1144: 1142: 1141: 1138: 1134: 1129: 1121: 1118: 1116: 1115: 1112: 1102: 1099: 1097: 1090: 1089: 1088: 1085: 1081: 1077: 1075: 1072: 1069: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1056: 1052: 1047: 1046: 1034: 1029: 1028: 1027: 1021: 1019: 1018: 1015: 1011: 1009: 1005: 1001: 997: 993: 985: 983: 976: 973: 969: 965: 964: 963: 960: 958: 952: 951: 950: 949: 946: 942: 938: 933: 911: 908: 904: 900: 897: 895: 889: 885: 884: 883: 880: 875: 871: 867: 864: 862: 855: 854: 853: 850: 846: 845: 844: 841: 839: 832: 831: 830: 827: 823: 819: 815: 811: 807: 803: 799: 795: 794: 793: 790: 785: 784: 783: 777: 773: 768: 767: 766: 763: 759: 758: 757: 754: 752: 745: 744: 743: 742: 739: 731: 727: 724: 722: 716: 712: 711: 710: 709: 703: 699: 690:Country flags 689: 685: 682: 676: 675: 674: 673: 670: 662: 660: 659: 656: 654: 644: 641: 637: 636: 635: 634: 631: 624: 621: 619: 613: 612: 611: 610: 607: 599: 595: 592: 590: 584: 580: 576: 575: 574: 571: 567: 563: 562:125.237.72.98 559: 549: 547: 546: 543: 540: 536: 532: 528: 521: 517: 515: 514: 511: 509: 503: 495: 489: 486: 481: 480: 479: 478: 475: 472: 470: 463: 462: 461: 460: 457: 450: 447: 440: 437: 430: 427: 420: 416: 409: 405: 398: 394: 387: 383: 376: 372: 365: 361: 354: 350: 343: 339: 332: 328: 321: 317: 310: 306: 299: 295: 289: 287: 281: 275: 272: 270: 263: 262: 261: 260: 257: 252: 247:Current Squad 246: 238: 235: 233: 227: 226: 225: 224: 223: 222: 217: 214: 212: 205: 204: 203: 202: 199: 196: 192: 187: 183: 180: 176: 172: 171: 170: 169: 161: 158: 155: 154: 153: 152: 151: 150: 144: 141: 140: 138: 137: 133: 130: 127: 126: 125: 123: 118: 112: 108: 103: 97: 91: 88: 85: 83: 80: 78: 75: 72: 68: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 1647: 1597: 1582: 1563: 1535: 1515: 1501: 1489: 1421: 1366: 1341: 1310: 1296: 1292: 1278: 1270: 1215: 1187: 1180: 1168:Hassocks5489 1158:Hassocks5489 1148: 1124: 1107: 1095: 1043: 1038: 1025: 1022:Who owns it? 1012: 999: 991: 989: 981: 967: 956: 940: 936: 934: 931: 893: 874:professional 873: 860: 837: 821: 817: 813: 809: 805: 801: 797: 796:Rugby, the ( 750: 735: 720: 693: 666: 652: 647: 627: 617: 603: 588: 553: 550:1976 boycott 524: 507: 499: 468: 453: 445: 435: 425: 414: 403: 392: 381: 370: 359: 348: 337: 326: 315: 304: 294:L.Mac Donald 293: 283: 278: 268: 253: 250: 231: 210: 185: 174: 173:The idea of 120: 114: 109: 105: 101: 70: 43: 37: 1407:Speak to me 1394:Speak to me 1327:—Preceding 1226:Black Album 1191:—Preceding 1150:User:Shudde 1004:December 30 996:Tiger Woods 695:Citizens.-- 669:Aaron Bowen 305:J. Rokocoko 36:This is an 1548:Jimmy Pitt 1519:Jimmy Pitt 1252:The Blacks 1234:Boomshanka 1212:The Blacks 1071:Boomshanka 520:All Blacks 446:T.Woodcock 404:A.Williams 382:R.So'oialo 360:B.Kelleher 338:S.Sivivatu 327:M.Muliaina 256:Alistairlp 1632:Historian 1289:Vandalism 857:fancy! - 818:end quote 806:end quote 663:Blank ref 533:or maybe 436:K.Mealamu 393:J.Collins 90:Archive 7 82:Archive 5 77:Archive 4 71:Archive 3 65:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 1205:contribs 1193:unsigned 1055:contribs 968:de facto 937:official 558:unsigned 426:C.Hayman 349:D.Carter 181:instead. 98:The lead 1667:Stormie 1616:Stormie 1473:Stormie 1447:gadfium 1355:gadfium 1323:gadfium 1256:Moriori 1242:gadfium 1224:or the 1133:WP:NFCC 1128:WP:NFCC 1084:Stormie 1014:Carlwev 992:teenage 945:TallGuy 907:Moriori 879:Moriori 826:Moriori 772:Hamedog 738:Voyager 715:WP:SIZE 698:Hamedog 680:gadfium 614:Why? - 371:R.McCaw 195:Cvene64 124:and... 117:WP:LEAD 39:archive 1648:Shudde 1598:Shudde 1564:Shudde 1536:Shudde 1502:Shudde 1367:Shudde 1342:Shudde 1311:Shudde 1297:Shudde 1279:Shudde 1218:Blacks 1197:HB one 1111:GordyB 1096:Shudda 1002:(born 957:Shudda 894:Shudde 861:Shudde 849:GordyB 838:Shudde 789:Rekija 762:GordyB 751:Shudda 721:Shudda 653:Shudda 640:GordyB 618:Shudda 589:Shudda 508:Shudda 469:Shudda 415:C.Jack 316:M.Nonu 269:Shudda 232:Shudda 211:Shudda 1425:WP:RM 1403:Blair 1390:Blair 1222:Black 1220:, or 1137:Durin 1045:Legis 972:Mjefm 810:quote 798:quote 485:Dingy 456:Dingy 115:From 16:< 1671:talk 1636:talk 1620:talk 1552:talk 1523:talk 1512:Haka 1498:. - 1427:. – 1386:link 1232:. 1201:talk 1051:talk 1008:1975 890:. - 888:here 822:home 776:Talk 702:Talk 566:talk 518:The 504:. - 502:here 122:any. 1460:Jay 1457:Pee 1432:Jay 1429:Pee 630:Buc 606:Buc 188:... 1673:) 1638:) 1622:) 1614:-- 1554:) 1525:) 1444:.- 1405:- 1392:- 1207:) 1203:• 1053:- 1042:-- 1006:, 812:) 800:) 568:) 542:Dd 539:Dd 352:10 341:11 330:13 319:12 308:14 297:15 86:→ 1669:( 1634:( 1618:( 1550:( 1521:( 1199:( 1057:) 1049:( 816:( 804:( 779:| 705:| 572:. 564:( 448:1 438:2 428:3 418:4 407:5 396:6 385:8 374:7 363:9 50:.

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