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three schools, but not for the other four? Answer: because those are the actual names of each of the schools. Do you actually believe that three of the elementary schools don't have
Elementary in their actual names, but that the school district decided they would break that pattern and have the other one include it? The answer is no. I assure you that the name will ultimately be changed to the correct name, Sandy Hook School. And for the record, local media (and all media, for that matter) always use Elementary, Middle and High when naming schools in their stories; it is standard journalism convention to do so. It's simply done for clarity. Finally, the Hartford Courant is NOT the local newspaper; it's the metroplitan newspaper for the region. Hartford is 50 miles from Sandy Hook. The local newspaper is the Newtown Bee, which verifies that the name of the school is Sandy Hook School.
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1167:. "Sandy Hook School" is obviously a significant alternative name. Therefore, the name "Sandy Hook School" should be noted in the opening sentence of the other article. And in this article, the Schools section should list the name as Sandy Hook School, since it's not an article title. And for the record... yes, the signage on the front of the building says "Sandy Hook Elementary"; that indeed is a school nickname (alternative name). But as every official school document indicates, the actual name of the school is Sandy Hook School. As well, if you look at every teacher or administrator page on the website where the school name is mentioned, it always says Sandy Hook School, or its standard abbreviation SHS (not SHES). Even the latest announcement from the school district says,
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but, sadly, has been ignored in this regard. None of the other three elementary schools use the word "Elementary" in their listings in the
Schools section, even though all of them are also referred to by their nicknames, just like Sandy Hook. Hawley School, Middle Gate School,and Head O'Meadow School are referred to, respectively, as Hawley Elementary School, Middle Gate Elementary School, and Head O'Meadow Elementary School. None of the four elementary schools should have the word Elementary included in the Schools section. But for some odd reason, one does and three do not. --
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responding to the replies that editors (including me, on my talk page) have made regarding some of your assertions. For instance, every site you've linked to as evidence of the "official" name has been ambiguous, at best. I don't think we have clarity on what the official name is, and the preponderance of the evidence imo points to the official name containing the word "Elementary". Shrug. Maybe it's a moot point which name is official. Anyhow, are you requesting any change to
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1339:, specifically your own interpretation that the instances of one version of the name are more meaningful than the the instances of the other version of the name. As I said above, the sources you've provided to support your premise are ambiguous; each of them also supports the opposite premise. Since you're choosing to ignore that inconvenient fact, even after I've just specifically invited you to respond to it, I fear we're done here.
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1466:. Rest assured that your request was considered carefully and assumed to be made in good faith. Maybe your premise is completely correct, but correct premises don't always carry the day at Knowledge. Having made your point, it's usually best to just walk away. Feel free to make similar arguments elsewhere if you like, but please take care: I'm catching a strong whiff of
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1152:. That would violate WP:COMMONNAME. The only thing I've wanted all along is for the body of that article to appropriately note the actual name of the school, which, as Anna has also accepted and acknowledged, is Sandy Hook School. In fact, Anna is the one who provided the great PDF which further verified the actual school name, to supplement the other evidence.
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1385:, which indicates harassment, incivility, personal attacks, and disruptive editing. It's very curious that you would come here simply to instigate trouble by solely posting a comment about a block I received. And for the record, the school's name is not trivial. In fact, Rivertorch was nice enough to say,
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mentioning "Sandy Hook School" as an alternative name, and if you had asked for that in your edit request there and I had seen it, I probably would have made the addition. But this is the talk page of a different article. I'm unclear on what you want done here. I'm also a bit confused that you're not
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The name of the school is Sandy Hook School. I showed you the definitive proof, a photo of the school sign. The fact that the article refers to it as "Sandy Hook
Elementary" doesn't make it the actual school name. It's standard for a news site to use Elementary, Middle or High for a school name. As I
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The
Newtown High School now was occupied in 1970. You put that it was 1974. I was in the first graduating class that went through the first 4 years of the brand new school and graduated in 1974. I was also a student at Sandy Hook School in the early 1960's. We never called it elementary school back
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on their official website. Hover on the
Schools tab? What does it say the name of the school is? Notice how the Intermediate, Middle and High schools all use those words in the names, yet the four elementary schools do not use the word Elementary. Why would the school district use the full name for
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So I think I've been very clear. The vast amount of evidence I have presented proves what the actual name of the school is, and I have also acknowledged what the common name is (for the title of the Sandy Hook shooting article). Anna has also shown and stated what the actual name of the school is
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Thanks. And I know I'm right because I know people who live in that general area and everyone there knows the name of the school is Sandy Hook School. But of course I need to provide reliable sources on here to prove it, which I have. Actually, you can change it since you're a registered user.
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Bugs, knock off your incivility. This is about correcting incorrect information. On the school shooting article, you called having the school's name correct "a tiny detail". That's outrageous. Sorry, but editors are supposed to get "hung up" on getting the facts straight. So please stop your
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I wanted to add that after I wrote this, I pulled out my old class pictures and report cards from Sandy Hook School. The pictures actually have Sandy Hook School on them. No elementary was on them. I went to Hawley School also. They did have elementary on them. Becky in
Cookeville, TN.
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The IP who started this is on some sort of nitpicky crusade. Never mind that the school's own web page says "Elementary" and that the external sources are widely using the term "Elementary". He's totally hung up on this detail, for reasons known only to himself.
1387:"For what it's worth, I wouldn't have a problem with Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting mentioning "Sandy Hook School" as an alternative name, and if you had asked for that in your edit request there and I had seen it, I probably would have made the addition"
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FYI, all the URLs on the page are likely correct, but the whole district site has been taken down, likely because of the recent tragedy. My recommendation is to leave the URLs in place, my guess is that they will work in a week or a month from now.
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Actually, I think I've made it abundantly clear what I want done. I said multiple times that I want the
Schools section here to list the name as Sandy Hook School. I explained that WP:COMMONNAME was misapplied because it refers to article
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that these were the only teachers ever to be murdered in the history of the district. Even if that is true, it discounts the other 4 adults who were murdered, and it is disproportional to the amount of text given to the shooting overall
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Baseball Bugs, my participation here has been part of a civil conversation with other productive editors. In fact, anyone reading this thread can see that the only editor who has been disruptive is you. I suggest you focus on your own
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Comments like that only reinforce my points. I suggest you treat other editors in a civil manner and focus on content. But if you feel the need to continue this type of behavior, we'll see how that works out for you.
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You have provided original research on what you want the school's name to be. In fact, both names are used, and the valid sources are widely using "Elementary". We go by sourcing, not by your personal experience.
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It is not known at this time why the letter attributed to Dawn
Hochsprung that same fall suggested an enrollment of almost 700 students; at any rate, that number (700) is incorrect. The correct number was 456.
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said, none of the four elementary schools in the
Newtown Public Schools have the word Elementary in their names, as correctly shown for the other three schools on the list in the article. --
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shows a very prominent and expensive sign with the word 'Elementary' in it. I doubt that they would have sprung for an extra 10 giant metal letters if this was not the name of the school.
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Since you still are not ready to address the concerns raised about your proposed change in a substantive way, I'm going to boldly box this up now rather than watch it turn into one more
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131:, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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I haven't been watching the other article or following your talk-page posts there, so I'm disinclined to blunder in over there in response to a request you've made here. As for
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873:(At a school I once attended, there was a spirited, ongoing argument as to whether "The" was part of the official name. Go figure. Any wonder I became a Wikipedian?)
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I realize that Sandy Hook
Elementary School is the more common usage in reliable sources, which is why I never asked for the article title to be changed at
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in which I demonstrate, using the IP's own links, the invalidity of his or her premise. Now may I suggest we collapse this before wasting any more time?
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The actual name of the school is Sandy Hook School, not Sandy Hook Elementary School. If you look at the names of the other three elementary schools on
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I forgot to add that many mainstream, reliable sources use the actual school name (Sandy Hook School) in their coverage. Here are just a few of them:
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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONNECTICUT_SCHOOL_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-14-13-27-48
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831:"Elementary my dear, Anna (and Abductive)". A bit OR-ish but there it is, "SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY... " in rather big (5 bricks high) letters. -
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The 76 IP got a short block over disruption about this bit of trivia, and if he's not careful, it could be a lot longer the next time. ←
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Thanks, Anna! Providing the school district's official budget document is perfect. So Bugs, why did you ignore Anna's solid proof??
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is the guiding principle here, which means whatever is the accepted name, what the secondary sources generally refer to it as.
640:. Please make the change in the article. The school's name is Sandy Hook School and more than enough proof has been provided. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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significant alternative names for the topic should be mentioned in the article, usually in the first sentence or paragraph
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1279:. Great. Then please do it. You of course do not need an edit request to make an edit in any article. You also said,
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table, where it should show the actual name, just as all the other schools are listed. And let's be clear, I have
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I am reproducing it here in case anyone wants to merge the information into the "2012 school shooting" section.
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Hopefully, these issues will be properly corrected in the two articles based on these policies. Thank you. --
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It seems it'r referred to by both names and in the article you provided a link to it's referred to as both.
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We seem to have consensus on the name, but as an additional point, I think it may be helpful to point out
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130110200510/http://newtown.patch.com/listings/reed-intermediate-school
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in the article, you'll notice that none of them have the word "Elementary" in them. That's correct.
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/newtown-connecticut-votes-rebuild-sandy-hook-elementary/story?id=20486788
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http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=yrE601iIboU%3D&tabid=3295&mid=39347
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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http://newtownbee.com/news/news/2013/10/05/sandy-hook-school-referendum-passes-wide-margin/166895
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1290:"This issue has nothing to do with the article title; it is solely about how the name appears in
1169:"All Newtown Public Schools except Sandy Hook School will re-open on Tuesday, December 18, 2012."
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612:). Hover on the Schools tab and you will see that the name of the school is Sandy Hook School. --
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Newtown-voters-approve-49M-for-new-Sandy-Hook-4872742.php
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Sometimes an institution goes by more than one name, even to the point of contradictory signs.
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I moved it to the appropriate place, but it's back at the bottom. Is there a reason for this?
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887:. Local media should know. If that's not local enough, how about going to the horse's mouth:
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https://web.archive.org/web/20121219114822/http://newtown.patch.com/listings/hawley-school
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Which article are we discussing here? For what it's worth, I wouldn't have a problem with
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I totally agree. Although the real name probably doesn't contain the word "elementary",
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The official enrollment number for Sandy Hook School as of November 30, 2012, was 456:
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Good point, Dennis. For the record, anyone interested in the question may wish to see
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Heartbreak & Healing: Man Remembers Girlfriend He Lost in Newtown School Shooting
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table, where it should show the actual name, just as all the other schools are listed
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Nonetheless, we should pick one or the other, and I think the choice is clear. The
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No consensus for making the requested change, and the discussion is going nowhere.
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intransigence and bullying. I have provided the proof of the school's name. --
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The ultimate proof that the name of the school is Sandy Hook School... read
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As long as you don't go off the deep end this time, you'll be fine. ←
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should be reliable, I think. Re-closing good-faith edit request now.
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asked for, or even suggested, that the article title be changed at
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Knowledge requested photographs in Fairfield County, Connecticut
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is being misapplied here. That policy applies only to article
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Here are some references that you can use for this article:
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http://newtown.patch.com/listings/reed-intermediate-school
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
1680:. The article is better overall without this information
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Newtown voters approve rebuilding of Sandy Hook Elementary
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mentioning "Sandy Hook School" as an alternative name"
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trumps it. Thanks Dennis, you're Yoda-wise as usual.
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Also, you can go to the school district's website (
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1752:http://newtown.patch.com/listings/hawley-school
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1159:makes clear, when an article title is a name,
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1652:Lauren Rousseau: 'The best year of her life'
1658:, December 19, 2012. Retrieved May 6, 2015.
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789:. Abductive, you have a pretty good point.
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356:Official enrollment numbers for 2012
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30:on 15 December 2012. The result of
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1718:. Please take a moment to review
1431:Stay calm and all will be well. ←
931:You really, really may be right.
907:Newtwon Public Schools' home page
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246:Knowledge:WikiProject Connecticut
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1711:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1033:
905:Here is the
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133:project page
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68:WikiProjects
35:
1062:this thread
243:Connecticut
234:Connecticut
190:Connecticut
58:Start-class
1836:Categories
1823:Report bug
1673:impression
1667:Discussion
1623:References
1472:Rivertorch
1341:Rivertorch
1271:You said,
1247:Rivertorch
1066:Rivertorch
893:Rivertorch
787:this image
739:This image
502:|answered=
462:Rivertorch
306:photograph
1806:this tool
1799:this tool
1616:Murdered
1605:Murdered
1245:article?
869:Not done:
752:reasoning
746:Abductive
556:Callanecc
551:Not done:
1812:Cheers.—
1696:contribs
1592:Details
1586:Teacher
1528:unsigned
1511:unsigned
1296:and (2)
1051:Join WER
565:contribs
520:the list
415:Resolved
373:unsigned
314:included
28:deletion
1720:my edit
1685:davidwr
1436:carrots
1408:carrots
1368:carrots
1119:Noha307
1002:carrots
961:carrots
270:on the
165:on the
138:Schools
87:Schools
1640:People
1286:titles
1138:titles
440:Arg342
346:Upload
337:Flickr
64:scale.
1146:never
883:, as
526:from
506:|ans=
496:This
302:image
1692:talk
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1389:. --
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530:. --
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327:The
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262:Low
157:Low
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