1500:"one famous photo - the thin man behind the barbed wire". The interviewer replied "A photo later proved to have been faked." Chomsky, pleased, reacted thus "You remember! Well that was Auschwitz and we can't have that all over again!" Cohen's point was that Chomsky didn't actually make the denial but he was happy to go along with rather than angrily challenge the denial of the TV interviewer. This, Cohen claimed, fit with a general pattern of Chomsky's praise for Holocaust denier Faurisson and Pol Pot deniers by not indulging in direct denial but "merely offering tasty morsels to whet the appetite of those who would move onto stronger meat." Cohen compared Chomsky to a boy on the edge of a gang of school bullies, able to step back and smile sweetly when the teacher storms into the playground - indeed he named the chapter on Chomsky "The Boy On The Edge Of The Gang."
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who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement... Note that an editor who repeatedly restores his or her preferred version is edit warring, whether or not his or her edits were justifiable: it is no defence to say "but my edits were right, so it wasn't edit warring"." Here's the source:
867:). However, I must acknowledge that my comments regarding Cohen which I made all those years ago were hardly very civil or particularly accurate. Maybe I'd had a particularly bad day ? Maybe it was someone else using my account ? Whatever the reason, I must retract my previous comment, silly nonsense that it is. If Mr Cohen is reading this, I apologise.
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The article says: "He details how scholars like Noam
Chomsky, along with the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP), denied the existence of concentration camps and the Srebrenica massacre." I don't know about the RCP, but Chomsky does not deny the massacre; when the Guardian claimed he did, they had to
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Hi "January", please respect the collaborative nature of
Knowledge. Let's say for the sake of argument that (at least) two mentions in national publications does not qualify as "noted", so your defence of repeated overridings is not pretty dodgy. Knowledge asks users: "An edit war occurs when editors
732:. The extensive discussion of his political views and positions is, frankly, unnecessary: we do not need to add something to this article every time he publishes a new opinion column, but this seems to be what some people have been doing. All this article should be is simply a description of Cohen, a
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right wing. The Euston
Manifesto itself and two 2003 Cohen pieces are cited as the (primary) sources for these sections and in none of these sources do the authors describe themselves as hawkish or (neo)conservative - indeed all three sources present themselves as dissident left wing voices. It is
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I have deleted two instances of the above phrase from the foreign policy section as they seem to have been only input in order to be kneejerk-judgemental about support for (or more to the point, criticism of opposition to) the 2003 Iraq war. These descriptors appear to have nothing to do with Cohen
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issues raised over this article, in addition to the existing BLP problems, I think the thing to do is 'nuke it and start again'. I've cut it down to the most basic, uncontroversial data, and removed all the criticism and discussion of Cohen's political views. Please don't just revert my edit; there
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Diana
Johnstone certainly denied the scale of the genocide - see claimed that only about 199 Bosnians were killed and that the rest of the 8K approx dead were "presumed" to have made it into Bosnian territory. She also repeated the claim that the Fikret Alić photo was a fake taken inside the camp
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It's not the
Guardian article, it's an earlier interview/talk type piece where Chomsky gets chummy with the undisputed deniers and implies that the news coverage of Bosnia was all so much "mannufactured consent." If you're on about the Guardian article I think you'er referring to, Cohen calls it
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For a supposed biography, this article is in terrible condition. It seems to have descended into little more than an extended argument over what Nick Cohen's views are, what he said and how he should be characterised. Much of the criticism of him here - e.g. the 'neoconservative' description - is
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LOL. When have the
British press ever hesitated to report on a "scandal"? But there are such a thing as libel laws, and just because someone says X did Y to me doesn't necessarily make it true. It needs much more corroboration before it can be included on Knowledge. If there is anything to these
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I think the belief that if they allegations have merit then the
British Press will definitely report on them is somewhat naive, but the way wikipedia works is it can only include things that have been reported by "reliable sources". So if no newspaper chooses to investigate the claims they can't
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territory – neither of them actually said "Nick Cohen is noted for advocating the invasion of Iraq". All your sources actually demonstrated is that Cohen wrote a piece on the subject for The
Telegraph in 2003, and that Medhi Hasan briefly mentioned on this in his New Statesman blog. I still find
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The article appears to have severe BLP issues and anti-Cohen bias. (See also the couple of threads above this one.) I am very tempted to simply stub the lot and start over, the content seems like a melange of random facts pieced together to give a rather inaccurate description of Mr. Cohen.
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The entire article is a mess, but worst of all is the
Attacks on Liberals & Greens section, which is so intellectually and academically dishonest it verges on libel. It employs quotemining, distortion, de-contextualisation and misrepresentation on an grandiose scale to make Cohen look
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The fearsome honour code by which hacks abide insists that no journalist can sue for libel — if you give it, you must take it. I bowed to its stern injunctions while wishing that my colleagues would grant me a release just this once so that I might relieve Jimmy Wales of a part of his
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To be fair, midnightblueowl is only saying thjat because Nick Cohen has no time for unreconstructed communists who play dungeons and dragons and believe in fairies. He is arguably, the one journalist who operates with both eyes open. Tony Riley (----)
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This article seems to be a cherry-picked mess of citations and such, so that Nick Cohen would look like a very stupid person. Perhaps he is stupid, I do not know him, but the article does not really seem to present his own arguments well and fairly.
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I have censored "noted" as you have twice asked (by way of overriding my entire contribution), but see no reason to censor this citing of a recorded, publicly noted view which has been noted by you and others in national publications. Thanks, Avi.
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Agree that we need strict sourcing for these accusations - and a demonstration that they're notable by being reported in independent sources. Given that previous edits are BLP violations I'm surprised they haven't been RevDel'd, frankly. —
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issue a correction: "Ms
Brockes's misrepresentation of Prof Chomsky's views on Srebrenica stemmed from her misunderstanding of his support for Ms Johnstone. Neither Prof Chomsky nor Ms Johnstone have ever denied the fact of the massacre."
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Does anyone else think that we should add "Sexual Harrasment" to a seperate subheading? After all this is an extremely serious allegation being made about him, putting it as a brief aside in the "Personal Life" section feels a bit cheap.
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summary of his views, and the most notable things about him. I am seriously considering reducing it to a stub of about four sentences or so; at the moment, that would be a great improvement on the present state of the article.
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Incidentally, Private Eye are now under the lens a little after the NYT article was published because, after all, he used to freelance for them, and ordinarily they'd be covering this sort of story in
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recently reverted the article to its 'stubby' version (about 4,000 bytes instead of a 43,000-byte monstrosity). IMO the article was full of POV, BLP violations, etc, so I thank him for that. Cheers,
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which briefly mentions this but was mostly about on another piece Cohen wrote on the Israel-Palestine conflict. Neither of these pieces cite that Cohen was actually noted for his views on Iraq.
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Agreed, the allegations should only be on his wikipedia page if a newspaper decides to investigate and report on it. If they choose not to then it should not be on his wikipedia page
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I'm not sure about a separate section but I've tidied up/combined some of the existing sections, which has also had the effect of moving this information earlier in the article.
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I believe that those above have suggested a cultural of looking the other way in the industry, and protection of senior journalists, so isn't the lack of media coverage a given?
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I noticed last year that this article was a complete mess (see above) and said how much it needed fixing. I'm sorry it took me so long to come back to it. In light of the recent
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Hmm, yeh I can see why you say that. It also seems excessively long for a person who is simply a minor British journalist... something of a nobody on the world stage.(
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I thought no more about it until I looked at my entry on Knowledge. As well as learning that I was a probable alcoholic, a hypocrite and a supporter of Sarah Palin
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Seeing as the NYT has just 'outed' him. Kind of makes it ridiculous not to. The only complaints I can see will be coming from old 'friends' owing him favours.
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I've been looking through the edit history and it seems this material was added about a year ago by an IP editor who initially used even stronger language - "
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Agree entirely. I didn't know who Nick Cohen was until about 20 minutes ago, but this article is a real hatchet job, and I'm sure is in violation of much of
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Cohen is a public figure, so such allegations, carefully worded, may be appropriate for the article if they are reported in reliable secondary sources.
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Hari used a pseudonym to make unflattering edits to the Knowledge entries for journalists including Nick Cohen, the Observer and Spectator columnist
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given that the allegations were shared by a reputable lawyer and came from a couple of journalists who have foregone anonymity, is that not enough?
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that Cohen is "noted" for advocating the Iraq invasion which was sourced to a "Personal View" piece by Cohen in the Telegraph, and a blog piece by
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hawkish neconservative". I reckon this should probably have been nipped in the bud entirely by the editors who reverted the IP editor's edits.
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Please do not mention the article about how the UK Press was aware of the scandal but chose not to report on it as that constitutes vandalism.
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appear on the wikipedia page. Not saying whether or not this is the way wikipedia should work, just that this is how wikipedia does work
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but admittedly his description of me made me laugh. I guess that's the impression that you make on people when you edit pages on both
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A number of allegations have been added and removed from the article sourced to twitter comments, putting this here for discussion.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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This is not about me wanting to keep a "preferred version", you added an inadequately sourced contentious claim which I reverted.
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Change the first occurence of the word "where" to "which", so that the description of Cohen's third book in the lede starts out
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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encourages editors to remove such material without waiting for discussion, and the edit-warring policy allows for this.
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Okay, I've had a look and this is what's actually in the book - Chomsky went on Serb TV in 2005 and made mention of
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards,
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What you were doing is inferring from two sources that Cohen is a "noted" advocate, which is wandering into
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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/30/world/europe/me-too-guardian-financial-times-madison-marriage.html
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Huh weird, when I brought it up in this section Bbb23 kept deleting it and saying it was vandalism.
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are serious issues here. Any expansions of the article should be discussed on this talk page first.
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Of course, the resulting version has to have at least one problem, Otherwise It Would Be Too Easy.
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for articles to make unsupported judgemental remarks on what qualifies as right wing or left wing.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1041:(talk | contribs | block) (3,683 bytes) (stubbed. Drastic BLP problems demand drastic solutions.)
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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I can't see any such reporting so think for now they definitely should remain off the article.
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looking out (based on the evidence that the camp fence is supposedly the wrong way round.)
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https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/turmoil-at-the-guardian-as-top-columnist-is-investigated/
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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The IP editor in question's edit history, incidentally, is quite the eye-opener
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Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 December 30 § Nick Cohen/Archive 2
1580:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060906235202/http://www.nickcohen.net/?page_id=5
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/nov/17/pressandpublishing.corrections
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https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/lucy-siegle-nick-cohen-guardian-complaint/
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advocate too strong a word, the most you could cite to that is "supported".
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ultra-conservative, totally reactionary and borderline fascist. -Lumiere-
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Ha, you know, I've only just seen this comment of Tony's. I would cite
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He might have been born in Manchester and then he might not.
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under a pseudonym including, by implication, Cohen's article.
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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Out of curiosity have you ever read an issue of Private Eye?
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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contributor may be personally or professionally connected
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Start-Class United States articles of Low-importance
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Start-Class University of Oxford (colleges) articles
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1379:This article does not give Cohen's date of birth.
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1401:He might have been born in the 1960's or 1970's.
1339:Also, please don't make baseless accusations like
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1776:allegations I'm sure we will hear about it.
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1167:What's Left?
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1958:80.47.129.8
1498:Fikret Alić
1494:Ed Vulliamy
1223:Mehdi Hasan
1015:Johann Hari
1003:|coauthors=
969:Cohen, Nick
72:Start-class
2123:Categories
2055:ipso facto
1633:Report bug
1542:Nick Cohen
1519:2.24.71.94
1219:this claim
1146:|answered=
347:Journalism
338:journalism
294:Journalism
1650:I think:
1616:this tool
1609:this tool
994:cite news
155:Biography
101:Biography
40:libellous
1895:Dononkey
1622:Cheers.—
1459:unsigned
1426:unsigned
1405:unsigned
1383:unsigned
1169:(2007),
1039:Robofish
1029:fortune.
926:Robofish
792:unsigned
739:Robofish
672:Archives
564:contribs
2060:WP:NPOV
1977:Sceptre
1825:Sceptre
1723:@JeffUK
1694:Agree.
1546:my edit
1447:Chomsky
1346:January
1234:January
1225:in the
1192:January
1113:Windows
973:"Diary"
941:Dweller
915:Stubbed
640:"Diary"
506:on the
374:on the
269:on the
1685:Czello
1667:JeffUK
1290:WP:BLP
1189:Done.
1105:Fences
984:9 July
921:WP:COI
817:Arrala
774:WaldiR
754:WP:BLP
730:WP:BLP
695:: 2009
688:: 2006
546:, and
472:Alerts
78:scale.
2039:SONIC
1313:WP:OR
1171:which
1150:|ans=
1140:This
1109:&
1084:User
899:COMMS
894:Ć’ETCH
861:Wicca
734:brief
2106:talk
2089:talk
2068:talk
1996:talk
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1341:this
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1007:help
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873:talk
859:and
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762:talk
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558:talk
144:and
1590:RfC
1560:to
1179:CWC
1148:or
1090:CWC
1047:PBS
810:POV
550:.
498:Low
366:Low
261:Low
29:BLP
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