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the village state
Gruevski's fathers' village used to be ethnic Macedonian and over the years other ethnicities have moved into the area while the Kanal5 source only states what Proto Thema has written yet the Proto Thema source is not used on here. WP:RS also states "Proper sourcing always depends on context; common sense and editorial judgment are an indispensable part of the process" yet videos such as the SKAI source are being used as a source when it does not use sources itself. WP:RS also states "Like text sources, media sources must be produced by a reliable third party and be properly cited" yet as I have already identified the source is of Greek origin and does not use 3rd party sources within the video itself. WP:RS also states "Such sources include websites and publications expressing views that are widely acknowledged as extremist, or promotional in nature, or which rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions" in which these biased Greek sources want to promote a particular point of view with non-objective conclusions about evidence. I believe this sources should be reviewed by a non-Greek editor and until then they should be removed.
1521:, after a careful reading of the article, I found that Karakachanov's name is also mentioned. What are we to do bearing in mind that he is a graduate historian? In 1990, he graduated with a master's degree in history. Karakachanov specialized in new Bulgarian history, new history of the Balkan states, and history of the liberation movement in Macedonia and Thrace. Since 2014, he has a doctorate in international relations. He is also a member of the Macedonian Scientific Institute in Sofia. He is the author of historical articles in some journals. Not that I'm a fan of his, but should the mere mention of his name mean a taboo for the content of a certain article with historical content.
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accurate, if the references are accepted as reliable there's no reason to make changes which give a more vague meaning. I Also left the name unchanged as it was added in the first place, the correct transfer from Greek is probably "Grouios" from "Γρούϊος" taken from the monument which is depicted in detail in the second link. I'm not going to edit anything for the time being.
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was to link to the
Macedonian article. However, thinking a bit further, there is a chance that the Russian would be more useful for editors that are working on an English article, since more people know Russian than Macedonian. Therefore I suggest having both links until the English article is created. --
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Hello. From what I can see, he's more notable as a politician rather than a historian. Even with all of these credentials, his controversial reputation cannot be ignored. This article isn't just about historical content, but also about a BLP and BLPs require strong sourcing. The claim is based on a
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It would be great if you or someone else made a stab at an article. And the beauty with the {{ill}} template is that as soon as the article exists in
English, the interwiki links disappear (or more correctly, are supressed and become invisible). As for Russian/Macedonian: Yes, my initial suggestion
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and still do not view these sources as reliable; WP:RS states "publish the opinions of reliable authors, and not the opinions of
Wikipedians who have read and interpreted primary source material for themselves" as is the case here on these topics, the Dnevnik source states the ethnic Macedonians in
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Just because it is not advantageous for the people of FYROM, in this instance, to make reference that his grandfather was from Greece with a Greek name and Greek ideologies, does not mean it should be left out of the article. It is important for historys' sake that every person of importance should
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The sources i added state that
Nikolaos Grouis fought with the greek army in Albania. The use of "antifascist" might give a false impression that he was in a partisan group or some other resistance formation. So i think the phrase "fought on the side of Greece" or "fought in the Greek army" is more
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That sounds great
Athenean, since I just viewed "A Macedonian, A Greek"s userpage and one must question the persons' bias with writings such as "I speak Greek like Alexander the Great did, not a modern Bulgaro-Serbian Slavic language like Gjorge Ivanov does." It is one thing to identify oneself as
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Articles about political figures should have a brief overview biography section (including "early life" etc., if there's anything notable known about that), and then concentrate on the person's political action and offices. Why does this article have its longest and first section on the history of
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The undisputed facts about his grandfather from the references are that his name was Greek, his village is in Greece and had a Greek name and that he served in the Greek army. The Greek identity/origin is obviously disputed and these facts are not a clear proof especially if we consider in general
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We could discuss whether to put the template in the infobox or in the navbox at the bottom. I would suggest the infobox, but am open for arguments both ways. We could also discuss if the link should be made to the
Russian or to the Macedonian article. I would suggest the Macedonian, since that is
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The source that is used in the article was misused. The article from Kanal 5 says that the "Greek media reports that
Gruevski is Greek". Gruevski or his father or his grandfather have never claimed Greek ethnicity. If you have proof, please provide a quote where they say that they are Greek.
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lives in Monaco, yet the French writing isn't in the lead, even though "it is possible" that he will continue to live there. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a similar example. Gruevski, to my knowledge, continues to post commentary only in
Macedonian and about Macedonian issues.
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have their ancestry identified. Once again your biased POV above shows the continual attempt by nationalists from FYROM to attempt to deny history. By avoiding the truth of his origins only shows an immature and uneducated approach to an otherwise professional encyclopedia.
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Again a Greek source, in which claiming fighting in the Greek Army proves he is Greek? It is well known ethnic
Macedonians fought with both Greek Armies and Yugoslavian Armies depending on where they lived (Yugoslavia or Greece) and more ethnic Macedonians fought with Greek
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Gruevski's grandfather was born in Krushodari (renamed to Ahlada by Greek authorities in the 1920s) Aegean Macedonia, and like many other Macedonians he participated in the Greek-Albanian war. I don't see why this should be twisted into "Gruevski is half Greek".
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suggests. On the contrary, this is a good example of a situation where it is suitable. With or without the template, the name "Boris Stojmenov" will be a redlink. Using the template does not post Gruevski's name in another language. It just creates a small
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primary source and journalistic sources (which attribute the claim to him). If it was mentioned and accepted as 'fact' by other reliable sources, I wouldn't be against its inclusion. This needs to be independently verified before it can be included.
778:) states Greeks believe he is Greek while ethnic Macedonians still living in his former village state the village used to be ethnic Macedonians, but the village has been replaced by other ethnicities over the years. These sources will be removed
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Why is a Hungarian Pronunciation of the name Nikola Gruevski included in the article? Even though he fled to Hungary he still does not have Hungarian Citizenship and has no Hungarian ancestry, it makes no sense to add a Hungarian Pronunciation.
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What do you mean "mock"?? And since when it is a mockery to state a fact?? It seems that you are somehow against Serbians, Bulgarians and Slavs in general! It also seems you don't know how Macedonian language is classified, so please do read
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his family? Sourced to a single Greek news outlet? Just because some Greek nationalist media have made this an issue doesn't mean we should give this much weight to it. The section can easily be cut down and reduced to one or two sentences.
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You have not responded to any of the comments "A Macedonian, A Greek", videos and biased one-sided sources are not considered reliable... indeed the sources are contradicting one another yet only one sources view is used in the article.
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His ancestors name "Nikos Grujos" does not prove he was one ethnicity or another - considering their was a Hellenization process that occurred in Macedonia, Greece "Nikos Grujos" may in fact simply be a Greek translation of his original
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Karakachanov is absolutly not RS, despite all of his credentials, since he is an ardent Bulgarian nationalist politician. Just like there's Macedonian researchers which do have very good credentials yet cannot be considered
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The man certainly has a document for permanent residence in Hungary, with which he has been legitimizing himself for years. It is possible that he will continue to live there for the rest of his life.
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does not have his name in Spanish. Again, I don't think you can find a similar example to support this. Do we even have a source stating how his name appears on any Hungarian documents he may hold? --
1111:; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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different, it is another to mock and purposely ridicule another's identity. I would gladly use your advice since I view "A Macedonian, A Greek"s objectiveness as lacking. Thank you
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Thus, I will revert your edit, based on the evidence and your failure to show any evidence that these sources are indeed reliable... besides your own view of their reliability.
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If you consider that his name should not be written in the language of the country that gave him asylum and protection, remove it. Otherwise, there are sources. For example:
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that a hellenization process did take place in the region. So i guess this comment is for neutrality, maybe a restatement like " On the other hand Gruevski is considered an "
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If a red wikilink about a Macedonian politician has to redirect to another language, shouldn't it be better that it redirects just to the Macedonian one?
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where he comes from. It is also possible to link to both with the code {{ill|Boris Stojmenov|mk|Борис Стојменов|ru|Стойменов, Борис}}, giving the result "
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I believe if Gruevski is indeed half Greek then non-biased sources can easily be found, therefore I believe these should be removed.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Without a source, this sounds like pure speculation. Also, is there any source on his on the Hungarian pronounciation of his name?
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I could like creating our own article instead of cluttering the infobox wiht multiple language redirections too. --
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Hello, I will remove the sources since no one has responded, please do continue the conversation when possible
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If you want these source to be reviewed by a non-Greek editor, the way to do it would be to post a request at
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Videos cannot and should not be used as sources, if that is the case Youtube will become a main source on here
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I'm against the inclusion of this supposed claim, as it is currently only backed up by a primary source.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1304:. 2) It might be an idea to create an article about him (for which the Russian article may be a help).
1167:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
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The source is biased, it's a pro-greek nationalist news outlet, and it is also irrelevant to mention.
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As far as I know, Gruevski is not leaving Hungary, so Djokovic's case has nothing to do with his.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Hello I made this account because I was confused as to why these sources are being misused:
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110722174742/http://www.mes.gov.me/en/depprminister/biography
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110722013525/http://www.nato-pa.int/Default.asp?SHORTCUT=1136
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The kanal5 source states "Proto Thema" (A greek source) is reporting Gruevski is half Greek
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090818143833/http://www.globalpolitician.com/23730-macedonia
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http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/default-mk.asp?ItemID=E02741FE0CDEF14487FFB7338443B82A&arc=1
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http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/default-mk.asp?ItemID=E02741FE0CDEF14487FFB7338443B82A&arc=1
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (XXG) (Commons does not allow fair use)
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Gruevski Half Greek? Then you wonder why no one takes Knowledge (XXG) seriously...
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I just provided the source from an official Greek institution called Pandektis:
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Official Greek Institution Confirms Renaming of Krushodari to Ahlada in 1926
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http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&eventId=56289&egId=13
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and please do not remove sourced content, as this constitutes vandalism.
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Please specify why they are reliable, and who states they are reliable.
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Thats good to know. Done, added both languages just in case. --
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Could someone add something about his new book "The Way Out" (
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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High-importance biography (politics and government) articles
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I also don't understand the presence of this in the lead. --
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Sources are reliable, please do not remove sourced content.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Start-Class biography (politics and government) articles
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Hungarian Pronunciation of the name "Nikola Gruevski"
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http://folders.skai.gr/main/theme?locale=el&id=87
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1289:: There is absolutely nothing wrong in using the {{
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1076:File:GruevskiBersulkoni.jpg Nominated for Deletion
577:"On the other hand Gruevski can be considered an "
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1201:http://www.globalpolitician.com/23730-macedonia
866:Sources are reliable, please do take a look at
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1109:Don't panic
736:Communists.
672:—Preceding
631:—Preceding
587:—Preceding
553:—Preceding
534:Кон излезот
72:Start-class
1574:Categories
1463:Local hero
1446:Local hero
1414:Local hero
1385:Local hero
1272:Report bug
970:ICONFIRMED
903:ICONFIRMED
854:ICONFIRMED
834:ICONFIRMED
780:ICONFIRMED
762:ICONFIRMED
748:ICONFIRMED
1376:Ivanavram
1255:this tool
1248:this tool
658:Fut.Perf.
617:Zakronian
559:Zakronian
161:Biography
101:Biography
40:libellous
1261:Cheers.—
1117:non-free
937:Athenean
686:contribs
674:unsigned
633:unsigned
589:unsigned
567:contribs
555:unsigned
528:His book
377:Politics
368:politics
324:Politics
1523:Jingiby
1493:Jingiby
1424:Jingiby
1395:Jingiby
1165:my edit
698:Jingiby
538:AimLook
509:on the
404:on the
299:on the
1557:Kluche
1467:Kluche
933:WP:RSN
78:scale.
898:WP:RS
868:WP:RS
729:name.
536:)? --
1561:talk
1543:talk
1527:talk
1517:Hm,
1497:talk
1489:here
1487:and
1485:here
1481:here
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563:talk
501:High
150:and
1552:RS.
1342:T*U
1314:T*U
1295:X1\
1291:ill
1229:RfC
1199:to
1189:to
1179:to
396:Mid
291:Top
29:BLP
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