750:) and it saddens me that no-one ever picks up on these as unimportant, yet someone always seems to jump on pages like this for speedy deletion. I'd say this page needs a bit of rewording but otherwise should be kept, as SDY are (in my opinion) an integral part of an important city's musical scene, despite a lack of mainstream chart success. Yes the original versions were frankly terrible as encylopedia entries, but this doesn't detract from the relevance of the band, and I hope the powers that be can be persuaded to keep their page!
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The names used here are not "insidery": the band usually list themselves by them -- on both their vinyl singles, on their myspace site (their names do not appear anywhere on their official site), on discogs and on MusicBrainz; in fact, the only divergence from this rule is that Golf appears as James
515:
One of the criteria for notability concerns band members' previous work. Golf most clearly ticks this box. I would argue that Trout does as well, since his previous bands have been influential and received critical acclaim even though they have been commercially unsuccessful. But those bands stretch
821:
I have removed the infobox, as it simply repeated some of the info from the main text, without explanation of why it left other bits out (esp. with reference to genres!). I think this kind of summary box only works when the main article is long enough to warrant a summary, and that is only going to
765:
I see there's been some changes as to whether the page starts "Smokers Die
Younger are..." or "Smokers Die Younger is...". Surely as a British band, it should be the more more English "are" rather than the American "is"? (i.e. in the UK we'd say "Oasis are a band from Manchester", whereas Americans
1065:
Clearly, it was not enough. Though I do not understand why not. The page listing notability criteria says that a band 'is notable if it meets any one' of the 12 listed criteria. The information above shows clearly that this band meets more than that:
1082:
Criterion 7: In summer 2007, the band featured heavily in a television documentary about music in
Sheffield aired as Rockbyen Sheffield on Danish channel DR2 and as an episode of the MusikbyrĂĄn series on Swedish channel SVT. See this page:
799:
Maybe incorporating the band facts and pre-history into the main text, as in my opinion they are not particularly interesting enough to warrant subsections. And Rhys and Graham didn't "do nothing" before
Smokers... they just weren't in any
1090:
Criterion 10: Appeared on the compilation CD Les
Musiques Que J'aime, put together by fashion mogul Karl Lagerfeld of Chanel and published by French label Tolerance Records in association with Vogue Magazine in 2006. Here it is on Amazon:
1033:
Other notable bands of his include
Lazerboy, Coping Saw, and Kilgore Trout (the 80s UK alternative rock band, not the more recent US band of the same name), but I don't seem to be able to find much about these bands on the
1154:
There are, at present, no precise definitions of a "small", "medium" or "large" country in this context. However, a very limited definition of "small" will generally be used, excluding only a few of the world's smallest
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Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and
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Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are
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There are a number of other
Knowledge (XXG) entries for as-yet (in Knowledge (XXG) standards) inconsequential Sheffield pub bands that have evidentally created their own pages as promotional tools (
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528:(I found that image from the club night's website. The band themselves have also been discussed in NME more than once, but their own website merely promises images of those articles to come.)
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689:, can you verify any of the preceding points? If you can, we can drop the music notability tag at the top of the article, and we can progress from there. Thanks for your help! -
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I have added the unreferenced tag to the page. There are plenty of links above; I recommend you start sourcing things (especially stuff like the claim that Golf was a member of
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on the album inlay; and unless you know that he is called Golf, you don't understand one of the lines in their anthem SDY (or its reference to the more popular Kermit Song).
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The band are instrumental in hosting
Electric Blanket, one of the most respected underground club nights in Sheffield, that has been featured in NME and elsewhere.
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Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country, reported in notable and verifiable sources.
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Criterion 7: see again the NME article listed above that describes them (rightly) as central to
Sheffield's music scene. (See also the TV show listed below.)
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Karl-Lagerfeld-presents-Musiques-Jaime/dp/B000JVRRZ6/ref=sr_1_1/203-9548765-8251143?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194602101&sr=8-1
101:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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I've used the band's real names alongside nicknames, which makes it look less insidery (Golf is credited as James on the band's album, for example).
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The band are published by Thee
Sheffield Phonographic Corporation, a highly regarded independent label who have a wikipedia entry.
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He also had a short-lived band called
Spoonfed Hybrid (again, no wikipedia article yet). This was a duo with Ian Masters of
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Trout was not in the band for the first two of these albums. The best online verification of his part in the band is here:
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A. C. Temple (not yet got a wikipedia page -- but will have soon!), who published four albums through notable indie label
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Oh, and: entry on discogs is not self-promotional, as it does not promote myself. I have nothing to do with the band.
860:: I am working on getting the verification you ask for, and will post it here soon. Thanks for all your help so far!
938:(London), on a page that lists only recommended gigs (15 March 2006, p. 99) -- again, you may need to zoom in on it:
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Trout (aka Chris Trout) was a key player in a number of notable UK indie bands over the last couple of decades.
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Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or the local scene of a city (or both, as in
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More recently, he had a band called Bear (again, no wikipedia page yet). Here is a somewhat uncomplimentary
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Some examples of their featuring in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media:
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Their debut single was Rough Trade Shops' single of the week, and was well received in the music press.
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Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable:
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Golf and Trout have weaved through so many Sheffield bands they're part of the city's musical fabric.
342:, where you can join the project, see a list of open tasks, and join in discussions on the project's
112:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
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If not, then in a few months' time, the band will release their second album through notable label
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Has had a charted hit on any national music chart, in at least one large or medium-sized country.
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116:.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see
1069:
Criterion 1: see the references above to NME, The Independent on Sunday, Sandman, and Time Out.
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924:, a well-respected magazine covering music in the north of England (April 2006 issue, p. 10):
880:: Here at last is the verification you ask for. Apologies for the delay -- I have been away.
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658:); note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Knowledge (XXG) standards, including
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I've added an infobox, which incorporates the pic and band members, as well as other info.
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They have been the subject of a feature article in the respected music magazine Sandman:
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http://search.reviews.ebay.co.uk/Blowtorch_EAN_5016027610066_W0QQfvcsZ1277QQsoprZ4011532
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Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one large or medium-sized country.
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And in response to the latest deletion request, here is more evidence of notability:
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and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).
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Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.
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review of one of Bear's albums - which also mentions one of Trout's previous bands:
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http://www.mute.com/artists/publicArtistLoad.do?id=2097&forward=fullDiscography
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http://www.picturehosting.org/images/DoctorJon/independentonsundayabc2april06p2.jpg
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Here they are listed as central to Sheffield's live music scene in an article in
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I agree the piece maybe needs a bit of work, but my twopenneth on notability...
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30:. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
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Here their album is listed as number 3 in a top ten of must-buy records in
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Has won a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno or Mercury Music Award.
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http://www.sandmanmagazine.co.uk/sandman/issues/04.06/Features/smokers.html
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1043:, but I don't seem to be able to find online verification of this either.
910:'s magazine ABC (2 April 2006, p. 2) -- you may have to zoom in to see it:
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in a band before forming Smokers Die Younger, but they didn't do anything!
721:, a highly respected Sheffield label that also has a roster that includes
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Prominent representative of a notable style or the local scene of a city:
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To see an example of NME's coverage of the band's club night, see here:
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can visit the
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http://www.picturehosting.org/images/DoctorJon/timeout15march06p99.jpg
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To see further examples of reviews of their work in reputable places:
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back to 1986, so online verification of this does not seem available.
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The tone of this article needs serious work. It is not encyclopedic.
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http://www.picturehosting.org/images/DoctorJon/sandmanapril06p10.jpg
536:
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http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/robertbrown83/Untitled-3.jpg
224:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.
1085:
http://www.dr.dk/DR2/Musikprogrammet/Artikler/20070529093624.htm#
1072:
Criterion 6: see the information about Trout's previous bands.
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and is mentioned on their wikipedia page. It published through
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http://www.picturehosting.org/images/DoctorJon/nme6may06p17.jpg
901:
http://www.picturehosting.org/images/DoctorJon/nme6may06p17.jpg
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etc) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in
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in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such.
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I'm not sure how much some of the text warrants bold type.
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appears to have been self-promotional by its submitter. -
833:
Subsections make navigation of the information easier.
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599:A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a
1186:Unknown-importance biography (musicians) articles
985:. Here is the evidence of that band's notability:
668:Has won or placed in a major music competition.
822:happen when the band is very well established.
576:, the criteria for notability are as follows:
8:
1014:http://www.answers.com/topic/spoonfed-hybrid
584:There are a lot of bands, singers and other
1099:I do hope this really is enough this time.
535:(To find out more about the magazine, see:
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1181:Start-Class biography (musicians) articles
920:Here is a full-page article about them in
592:with articles in the Knowledge (XXG) (see
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766:would say "REM is a band from Georgia").
493:Notability is also questioned. Entry on
550:http://smokersdieyounger.com/SDYREV.HTML
547:http://smokersdieyounger.com/5-0REV.HTML
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1107:, thereby meeting criterion 5 as well.
1105:Thee Sheffield Phonographic Corporation
1047:Hope this is enough! All the best, Jon
719:Thee Sheffield Phonographic Corporation
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544:http://smokersdieyounger.com/XREV.HTML
443:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Sheffield
354:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Yorkshire
234:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Biography
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423:This article is within the scope of
210:This article is within the scope of
1171:Biography articles of living people
1028:http://www.nme.com/reviews/3081.htm
150:It is of interest to the following
934:Here a gig of theirs is listed in
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1221:Low-importance Sheffield articles
1206:Low-importance Yorkshire articles
1039:Golf was the original bassist in
1009:. More info about that band here:
959:article already mentioned, here:
717:They have an album and single on
537:http://www.sandmanmagazine.co.uk/
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91:This article must adhere to the
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463:This article has been rated as
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26:This article was nominated for
1216:Start-Class Sheffield articles
1211:WikiProject Yorkshire articles
1201:Start-Class Yorkshire articles
1196:WikiProject Biography articles
1176:Start-Class biography articles
776:Some changes I've made and why
446:Template:WikiProject Sheffield
357:Template:WikiProject Yorkshire
237:Template:WikiProject Biography
1:
1191:Musicians work group articles
1118:10:07, 9 November 2007 (GMT)
775:
761:Smokers... is, Smokers... are
437:and see a list of open tasks.
258:This article is supported by
94:biographies of living persons
727:Monkey Swallows the Universe
222:contribute to the discussion
1140:01:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
981:, which was a sub-label of
740:The Way Of All Flesh (band)
507:Have now altered the tone.
106:must be removed immediately
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1054:16:12, 13 July 2006 (GMT)
866:13:58, 11 July 2006 (GMT)
849:13:53, 11 July 2006 (GMT)
790:Some other suggestions...
469:project's importance scale
380:project's importance scale
908:The Independent on Sunday
808:17:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
561:16:50, 5 July 2006 (GMT)
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694:17:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
566:Band notability criteria
502:16:17, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
50:, 15 November 2007, see
744:Spheres of Chaos (Band)
580:Musicians and ensembles
326:is within the scope of
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140:This article is rated
40:, 7 January 2021, see
736:The Golden Age (band)
426:WikiProject Sheffield
329:WikiProject Yorkshire
261:WikiProject Musicians
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213:WikiProject Biography
144:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
78:proposed for deletion
896:(6 May 2006, p. 17):
323:Smokers Die Younger
1130:). Thanks. --Anon
1111:All the best, Jon
594:Category:Musicians
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146:content assessment
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1003:Pale Saints
979:Blast First
511:Notability:
142:Start-class
1165:Categories
1155:countries.
873:Notability
853:Notability
748:Firegarden
52:discussion
42:discussion
1034:internet.
805:Petemella
768:Petemella
752:Petemella
649:redirects
637:notable).
613:orchestra
586:musicians
440:Sheffield
431:Sheffield
403:Sheffield
351:Yorkshire
345:talk page
334:Yorkshire
285:Yorkshire
231:Biography
176:Musicians
171:Biography
110:libellous
955:See the
936:Time Out
674:redirect
642:reliable
573:WP:MUSIC
486:Untitled
28:deletion
922:Sandman
816:Changes
687:Dr. Jon
559:Dr. Jon
495:Discogs
467:on the
378:on the
1116:Dr Jon
1052:Dr Jon
864:Dr Jon
847:Dr Jon
800:bands!
609:rapper
605:singer
148:scale.
1095:: -->
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570:From
1136:talk
1091:<
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725:and
601:band
588:and
220:and
48:Keep
38:Keep
1021:NME
957:NME
894:NME
596:).
459:Low
370:Low
99:BLP
1167::
1147:^
1138:)
746:,
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621:DJ
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