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who are the leading Sandy Hook theorists, the operation is discussed at length. If we cut down on the number of nouns listed that is fine, but I think it's appropriate to demonstrate what full spectrum means (especially involvement of prosecutors, medical examiners, hospitals, media, etc.), since this wouldn't be clear to most readers. Exceedingly few theorists have claimed anytime recently (anytime after
December 2012/January 2013) that children were actually killed by the government in a conventional false-flag shooting, certainly no high-profile theorists. Thus, the 'more common theory' warrants separation by a new paragraph. Slatersteven, what language are you unsure of?
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anything untoward is another matter. I did remove the sections about the home sales pending this discussion (though I described it as the claim of Fetzer, who lost a lawsuit which may cast doubt on his credibility). I'm not making personal claims about the event, I'm stating what Fetzer Tracy and others' theories are, since that is relevant to the article. In every edit, it says Person X claimed, stated, asserted, argues, etc. Not that it is fact.
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people aren't aware of what that means, and it only takes up 1-1.5 lines to explain. EDIT: I'm assuming you're BLP concerns are referring to Fetzer claims about the parents. I'll remove those for now and restore what is in the lede, but they do accurately summate what is claimed in Fetzer's book, without stating they are factually true.
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How is an explanation of the theories not relevant or informative in an article about the theories? How does it violate BLP if someone believed it was true (and it was noted that a jury found it to be false)? It's already stated in no uncertain terms here that the Sandy Hook CTs are false, but they
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I'm fine with the break you put in. To tie up this discussion, I don't really think there are any BLP concerns around the home-sales thing, since it's clear that it's Fetzer's claim and comes from his book, and is not being presented as a generally accepted fact. It's also made clear in the article
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It's silly to omit the 3-word name and say 'a canceled full-spectrum Iowa training exercise', when people have no idea what full-spectrum means. A detailed coverage of OCC as discussed in the sources would take several paragraphs, and this is one short clause that takes up 1.5 lines total. I'll see
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I changed it to reflect both threats and outcry. I tightened it up and think it's fairly succinct (takes up one line). OCC needs to be mentioned since it is the real-world basis for theorists' training-exercise beliefs, which otherwise would just be products of imagination/out of left field. Almost
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Its not suitable for the lede, the body maybe, but the lede if as a summary of the article, not for details that are not even in the article. And (As I said) the issue was how it was worded. We cannot use language that even implies this may be true. Please undo your addition to the lede and move it
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Well for a start the claim it was "the shooting was modeled on
Operation Closed Campus" has not been. As has the claim about house purchases, and people moving away from a place where their kids got shot...well that is odd. We need third party analysis of these claims, not just repeating them as if
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Recent edits 'on the more common conspiracy theory' represent the leading theory, which is that the event was a (classified) training exercise modeled on 'full spectrum' or 'capstone' training exercises, most notably the canceled
Operation Closed Campus. In the book co-authored by Fetzer and Tracy,
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What is unsubstantiated? Fetzer and Tracy's book, which claims the shooting was modeled on
Operation Closed Campus, was cited. The details of the operation (agencies/personnel involved, that it was canceled and why) are linked via three reliable sources. We could just say 'full-spectrum,' but most
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It is absolutely relevant. The point is not whether it proves anything or convinces you or me or anyone else. The article is about Sandy Hook CTs. It is an exposition of the theories, an exposition of arguments against the theories, and societal context around the theories; it's supposed to be an
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OK then if it's really a concern should we say 'primary' or main or whatever? Do you really want to have 50 citations after that statement (which would outweigh the small number of citations dealing with theories involving violence)? I think it's fine as is. There have been a handful of theories
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The large majority of the sources cited deal with the theory that it never happened, which I'd estimate constitutes over 99% of the Sandy Hook CT content since early 2013. People believe the government has been involved in violent false flag operations, but rarely with respect to Sandy Hook. The
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I didn't say it was modeled on it, I said Fetzer and Tracy, who are the most well known theorists, stated that it was modeled on it in the book that they published and I cited. Just read the source cited and you will see that I'm correct. I agree that it's odd, whether or not it's indicative of
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I am unsure it is worded in a way that reflects the fact these are wholly unsubstantiated claims (and not uncovered facts). Nor do I think we need this level of details about one or two persons claims without third-party analysis of said claims (especially as this is a BLP about allegations of
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I changed disseminated to adopted, to make the never-happened belief seem less tied to their actions/under their control. Much of Fetzer and Tracy's cited material goes into great detail on the exercise theory, including a 400-page book titled 'it was a FEMA drill' that was written by both of
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It is an absolutely relevant, core fact about the CTs that takes up half a line. It is just as relevant as the fact that they believe it was a training exercise, since it directly inspired/caused the belief. I removed all the details about what the drill involved and put them in your new
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that a jury disagreed with him about his overall beliefs. The home-sales parent-age/moving things are a significant part of Fetzer's theory (and are frequently cited by most other Sandy Hook theorists), so should be mentioned. If you have any concerns around that let me know.
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objective look at the phenomenon, not a proving or debunking. Therefore, there can be some fundamental details given/introduced about the theories (again, it's one line) in the lede that are fleshed out more in the body, per typical style in encyclopedias and general writing.
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To clarify, the 'more common' phrase refers to the general idea that it was faked/didn't happen, not necessarily to the training exercise theory (though in fact that is the most common theory), which is said to be specific to 'Fetzer Tracy and
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OK, but it explicitly says who believes what, and what 'most common' is referring to. The training-exercise theory is a subcategory of never-happened and is not at odds with it. It's a long sentence but there is really no lack of
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As I said, the entire basis of the main CT material is a COMPARISON of Sandy Hook and the OCC template, it's silly and inappropriate to exclude a few explanatory words from the lede (now half a line) on the grounds that it's
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Yes it says that Fetzer Tracy and others most commonly believe it didn't happen, and that Fetzer and Tracy specifically believe it was a training exercise. Those two things aren't necessarily related, the way it
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involving violence which are mentioned beforehand in the first paragraph, but the large majority of the article deals with the never-happened theory, so it's appropriate to note its greater popularity.
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This is just disrespectful having all this here and is not fair on the families should they come across this on
Knowledge. Anyo e in favor of this article being should be ashamed, period.
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may come into it, as this is what these are accusations of criminal activity. We cannot include this kind of accusation without explanation or commentary. We need RS to discuss this.
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It's extremely ridiculous to have an article about a subject (theories), but then you can't even explain what those theories are. I'll keep out the home-sales part.
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UNsure, I am not sure him or his views are all that relevant. But if we mention his views we should mention they have (successfully) challenged in a court of law.
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all of the CT material on the subject concentrates on attempting to draw parallels between OCC and like exercises and what they observed at Sandy Hook.
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What? What has this to do with the claim that the claim the training exercise is "the more common conspiracy theory" needs sourcing? And read
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NOt unwieldy, not policy compliant, the lede is a summary, not a newspaper style leader. This is my last word on the subject, read the policy.
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to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to
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In the body, the lede is a summary, only. And no we do not need to mention this, as it proves or demonstrates nothing.
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Give me a few minutes to make some changes. It seems to have been both threats and public outcry. Will mention both.
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related articles on
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I have nothing more to add to what I have said above, I do not agree its relevant or informative, and violated
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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
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I disagree, and as far as I can tell neither of the sources even mention the training exercise.
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What sources say the training exercise is the most common conspiracy theory?
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No "Omit" MOVE. And yes, we give details, if we mention it we need context.
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I think it is time for others to chip in now. I can't say more than
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And "Operation Closed Campus" was canceled (after threats)
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32:This is the
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732:Connecticut
688:Connecticut
292:written in
161:free images
44:not a forum
1998:Categories
1853:WillieP100
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551:Skepticism
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1461:unwieldy.
1196:this edit
451:WP:CENSOR
427:contested
407:Wyatt 151
351:consensus
101:if needed
84:Be polite
34:talk page
1834:wp:crime
1826:wp:undue
1719:clarity.
1655:others.'
1187:InfoWars
967:Politics
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908:Politics
441:contribs
417:contribs
375:deletion
307:traveled
199:Archives
69:get help
42:This is
40:article.
1938:Neonate
1348:wp:lede
1200:history
1150:on the
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859:on the
768:on the
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473:C-class
425:It was
303:defense
216:60Â days
167:WPÂ refs
155:scholar
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1116:Alerts
479:scale.
449:&
139:Google
1933:Paleo
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1604:wp:or
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343:civil
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182:JSTOR
143:books
97:Seek
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1961:♦Ian
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175:FENS
149:news
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